peanutbutterlatte
Member
Have we got confirmation that 3DS download play isn't happening? I don't think I'd bother with the 3DS version if not.
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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 8: Put mii in, coach
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
Ice Climbers were always competitive, Wobbling and Chain Grabs just moved them up the tier list a couple of rungs. Even without chain grabs, there's still a lot there to play with with the Ice Climbers, but some of their chains depended on grab-releases, rather than grab-throws, so they may end up being the only characters who can still pull off a chain grab, unless they've be nerfed in some other way to prevent this.
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Sorry for two long posts so close together, but I think a reduction in landing lag across the board is a horrible idea. Attacks are already balanced for speed, damage & knockback, they should be balanced for landing lag as well. Every character should have a few low lag approach aerials, and the rest can have a higher lag. That meets the happy middle ground of making approaches and aggressive play more viable, but still nerfs things like short hop laser spam.
It also gives another way to balance characters. Character too weak with only a few kill moves, give them really low landing lag to compensate, so they're better on approaches and chases. Character have crazy knockback on aerials, keep their landing lag fairly high so they have to really commit to it.
The suggestion someone made earlier of having less lag if an attack connects, and the normal lag if it whiffs or is shielded would also work in much the same way (but would probably be harder to code in the time they have left).
LeMaximilian
Alligator F*ck House
Back from the show, and will be posting several character/gameplay impression vids eventually...but just wanted to get this out.
There's a very good reason the 3DS version was delayed. Camera is extremely funky, sometimes not focusing well on the action. Runs around 30-45 fps most the time, never really saw it ever hit 60. Control responsiveness felt lacking, also the current button layout felt absolutely backwards with X & Y being jump. From max camera distance, the black outlines around characters becomes so prominent, darker character colors blend in and it's hard to identify who's who.
The show floor had a ton of Smash Wii U and 3DS playable. I only ever waited over a minute to play on 3DS, most left before their playtime was even over. I have confidence things can get fixed before release, but as far as early impressions...woof.
Also, I feel a 3DS XL is almost required for this game. The screen was really small for all the action, and realized after I was playing on an XL.
There's a very good reason the 3DS version was delayed. Camera is extremely funky, sometimes not focusing well on the action. Runs around 30-45 fps most the time, never really saw it ever hit 60. Control responsiveness felt lacking, also the current button layout felt absolutely backwards with X & Y being jump. From max camera distance, the black outlines around characters becomes so prominent, darker character colors blend in and it's hard to identify who's who.
The show floor had a ton of Smash Wii U and 3DS playable. I only ever waited over a minute to play on 3DS, most left before their playtime was even over. I have confidence things can get fixed before release, but as far as early impressions...woof.
Also, I feel a 3DS XL is almost required for this game. The screen was really small for all the action, and realized after I was playing on an XL.
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
Hmmm still not sure if I want to go to Best Buy today.
I guess if I wake up, I'll go; will probably go 4 hours early this time.
I guess if I wake up, I'll go; will probably go 4 hours early this time.
Wow! This Can Can arrangement is fun. And hey, what better way to represent arcade music than an arrangement of public domain music?
Oh by the way. You know what else has been bugging me about this game? It seems to be ripping things directly from SSBB. What do I mean by that? The menu interface, the character selection screen, the sound effects, the announcer's voice samples, the move sets, they are all identical to what they were in SSBB. Every time there was a new SSB, nearly everything in it would be dramatically different from the previous game. Yet for some inexplicable reason, Sakurai has decided to keep many of the same assets and such for this one. It honestly seems like he's been holding a grudge once he saw fan reactions to SSBB, and seems to want to have a do-over or something.
LeMaximilian
Alligator F*ck House
Was also something I really despised about the game. The interface is extremely bland. Feels thrown together in Flash.
SliceSabre
Banned
Where do people come up with this stuff from?
And its still not even coming out till 2014. What the hell would you have wanted a 2016 release just so everything would look shinier? These games are going to be jam packed, they're literally working on them until the final moment, and youre worried about reused assets and styles? And yeah you're right it MUST be to hold a grudge against those internet forum users!
Professor Beef
Banned
GIF OF THE DAY
REST IN PEACE GRAB COMBOS EDITION
marth ; _ ;
Anything that nerfs Marth is a-ok in my book. ^__^
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
Their ass, where else?
sorakirosaki
Member
actually this has me curious have we seen the menus? for both versions?
LeMaximilian
Alligator F*ck House
Played the 3DS version for a couple hours. Is identical to console.
Didn't Sakurai say in an interview that Brawl was his favorite game in the series and that he was disappointed that it wasn't as well received as he thought it would be?
Are you seriously telling me that it would be asking too much for any of those things I mentioned to not be recycled?
Dammit. I'm only rocking an OG Zelda 3DS.
You know what place-holders are? Entirely possible that stuff like the announcer will change.
Move Sets being carried over? This is a fighting game so they'd better be carried over. And you know...lots of veteran movesets already HAVE been changed so it's not like you were right in the first place.
The menus also are not identical. Similar yes, but that's to be expected. All of Sakurai's games since Kirby Air Ride iirc share a similar menu design, why would SSB4 be different?
The menu design is like Sakurai's digital signature.
Terribly uninformed post all around.
SliceSabre
Banned
And so now he's holding a grudge against the fanbase?
You really expect me to believe some nonsense like that?
There's basically no reason to grab ledge anymore. Edge hogging is impossible unless the character is in a fall state. Snapping to the ledge/auto sweet spot is still in the game too.
As if we didn't live long enough in Brawl...
http://www.gfycat.com/LameNextBadger
it's just changed the way edgeguarding works.
sorakirosaki
Member
well i could get that they are similar but is it in the same placement as it was in brawl? because i liked that look to be honest :T
edit: ot but max i love your boss fight vids
So you don't know for sure then.
Basic movesets should be carried over, yes obviously, but there should be newer ones too. I dunno about the other characters, but I didn't see one single new move from Mario at least.
Look at the menus from SSB64, SSBM, and SSBB. All of them were noticeably different.
sorakirosaki
Member
maybe im remembering wrong but wasnt ssbm's similar to ssb64? also doesnt custom moves not count or something? im just curious since i dont understand your definition of basic moves (im really just curious)
Professor Beef
Banned
You say that like it's a bad thing.
LeMaximilian
Alligator F*ck House
well i could get that they are similar but is it in the same placement as it was in brawl? because i liked that look to be honest :T
edit: ot but max i love your boss fight vids
Thanks much!
The way the menu is laid out in Brawl is very similar to Smash 4. While not identical, it's aesthetically similar. I really like the unique look to Melee, which feels like a spaceship interface. Albeit, fighting game interfaces are like one of the least important things, it just helps the overall feel of the experience.
TLDR: The UI in Smash 4 feels lazy/iMac minimal.
Also this is a good read http://smashboards.com/threads/smash-4-analysis-from-a-guy-who-loves-camping.358097/
He goes on to explain what's good about the game.
He goes on to explain what's good about the game.
sorakirosaki
Member
ahh im a fan of the minimal look to be honest so im happy about that
but to each its own HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
As far as I am concerned, Sakurai has already found the perfect menus for this kind of game. I think a testament to this achievement can even come from being asked a question about them during the roundtable and the constant praise he has for menus in previous games.
It's always going to fall down to opinions, but yeah.
It's always going to fall down to opinions, but yeah.
sorakirosaki
Member
ive always liked how his menus have been really easy to navigate i think someone mentioned his wife does all the menus? maybe shes a graphic designer
also on the note about using brawl assets sakurai has also added things like more facial expressions and added a lot more character to the game sure not everyone might care but its something he clearly must have loved to do (i personally enjoy when u ultra in sf4 just to see the eyes bulge and see the character going o shit XD)LeMaximilian
Alligator F*ck House
It's his game, and everyone loves him. I really don't think much is going to change about Smash 4 leading up to release.
I went in the most excited for the game, and left pretty un-impressed about the whole thing (outside of the jaw dropping graphics, the game is gorgeous).
Gameplay wise, the game 'feel' just is off. It's hard to describe, as it's a thing that really rears its head in fighting games, but I couldn't shake it even after playing 50+ games. Just gonna have to get used to it, and find out what the hell I'm gonna do with 20 smash t-shirts.
You know there is more to UI than just the look. In fact it's the non look stuff that is harder to do.
Nope, they were vastly different.
SSB64:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=PcNdETihdss#t=124
SSBM:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9DxW6chgSw
Yes, I remembered the custom movesets as well, but that's exactly what they are: custom. When I say "basic" movesets, I mean the ones that are with the characters as is, without any modification from the user's end.
Maybe not, but still.
sorakirosaki
Member
hmm personally im just hoping everything gets fixed or if not a patch comes out honestly im just excited for another smash
about the 64 menu they look preety similar to me with the whole navigate by going up and down 4 options...but yeah too each their own i personally like the brawl menu look so im glad he or his wife decided to use it again
also so pit, shiek, zss, olimar, dk heck didnt other characters get property changes even? (i 'm sorry if i keep pressuring its just i really dont understand this sentiment)
So you based your opinion of move sets off one single character? Wow. You also seem to have forgotten that you can choose between three variations of each special attack, which will completely change the way the characters are played.
Kirby's Air Ride was released after Melee, so I don't see your point here. The change in menu design was implemented after Melee's release. to be really nitpicky - SSB64 and Melee share the same underlying menu design, so that part of your response isn't really correct either. (But it's visually different, so I see where you come from).
sorakirosaki
Member
all these impressions negative and positive aside just really makes me want to try this even more. the more i keep hearing all these back and forths in certain areas keeps making me feel these demo builds were just kind built on the fly and just slapped together to show a basic system or feel for the game (i dont know but all these mixed impressions) just keeps making me more confused
of course some impressions are similar in certain areas but man this is the first time i heard the 3ds frame dropping so i am super confused
I know it sounds like I'm being too nitpicky (and hell, maybe I am), but I do want to be fair and not try and take away from the fact that there are other really distinguishing features in the game as well (like the new art style, which imo is definitely a step up). It just seems strange for him to carry over so many things directly. Makes the whole thing mesh in a weird way.
LeMaximilian
Alligator F*ck House
As an advocate of 60 fps games for 15 years of my life, I can guarantee you Smash 3DS at E3 was not running at a rock solid 60. More near 45 on average.
sorakirosaki
Member
ehh i think your assessment while i dont agree is still fair so i cant hate
but to me while yeah he does use the brawl assets i think the stuff he added useless to some fun for others is enough for me to give the visuals mechanics a breath of fresh air actually im curious was this on all the 3ds's you played or just the one? just curious because of all the other previews and stuff
is her new pose different from the brawl one? im curious to know what the new pose looks as well
Neoriceisgood
Member
Little thing I'm curious about: Did zero suit samus have her 'new' shooting pose in the demo?
SliceSabre
Banned
Are you really complaining a demo is not running at a smooth 60 fps?
Think about that for a second.
A demo.
Not running perfectly
Color me surprised! Come on man try to be reasonable.
TheSlySoul
Member
Well, it makes more sense then why it is not a huge overhaul. This game has only started work since 2012 and making 2 different versions. If Namco rehauled every thing, people would be pissed all the same.
Out of the tons of previews I have seen, yours is the first to mention dips.
Everybody else has praised it being 60fps.
I'm really worried my OG screen is going to be too small for this. Slightly disappointing. Sigh.
he's responding directly to someone who said it was running at 60
personally, i'm just pissed i'm on another continent entirely and will have to wait for a while. (though I can probably grab smash for 3ds in sept- wait, shit, region locking. NINTENDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO)
sorakirosaki
Member
werent all the demos on the og 3ds? it looked fine to me but maybe its just camera or w/e i feel like the 3ds version is something i really need to try :t
TheSlySoul
Member
I think 3DS will be fine. I do not think they will shrink portraits. The 2DS is still the same size. The reason they use XL is because you get more room to view things at.
What personally bothers me isn't that you're nitpicky (we're in SmashGAF, the entire point is to be nitpicky) - it's that most of your claims are just wrong and based off a tiny sample size and/or lack of knowledge.
You complain about moves being directly ripped from Brawl while you only know about Mario, ignore the custom moves and Sakurai changing properties of moves. The animations might be the same and it's an understandable mistake, but you're still wrong.
You complain about Sakurai ripping the menus and CSS from Brawl. Another claim that's uninformed (since menu design of Sakurai's games carries over since Kirby's Air Ride) and wrong (the actual visual design of SSB4's menus alters from SSBB. Different font, shapes and colors).
Your only discussion-worthy point so far imo has been the sound design. Could be interesting whether a reuse of sounds is lazy keeping the series identity.
The rest...not so much :/
LeMaximilian
Alligator F*ck House
A lot of folks have issues seeing a range of framerates, and I'm not saying you have to trust me either.
It's something that I find very important for fighting games, and really felt the need to get it off my chest as it's been bugging me ever since the show. You can take or leave my impressions, but I did play nearly 20 or so matches on the 3DS XL version, and I was constantly questioning the framerate.
I've also got a general rule of thumb when trying to decipher if a game is actually running at 60. Usually if something is, there's no question, 'that's obviously 60 fps'. But if you see something running and start questioning the framerate, attempting to decipher what it's actually running at...there's a good chance it's between 40-50 fps.
JediLink
Member
(Disclaimer: I haven't actually played Smash 4 myself. I've only watched videos and read impressions.)
This is something I'm really worried about. Melee felt like sex. Brawl felt stiff and awkward. Smash 4 looks to be mostly the same as Brawl. No matter how deep or balanced it is, no matter if there are combos or not, if a Smash game doesn't feel good to control, then there's an upper limit to how enjoyable it can be.
Also Max, you could always start trying getting into competitive Melee (AKA the greatest fighting game of all time). It doesn't look like that scene's going to be going away any time soon.