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Super Street Fighter 4 |OT| BACK OF THE BUS, SAGAT!
- Thread starter Oichi
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AZ Greg said:Ugh, I'm starting to get so tired of some of the shit I have to put up with playing as Vega. And I'm not talking about his character weaknesses but the way people play my Vega.
I know some of you think it's annoying fighting Vega or my Vega, but it isn't half as bad as the shit I have to put up with. People using SRKs, Balrog headbutts, flash kicks, Cody bingos, HP thunder knuckles, Juri EX pinwheels, Adon/Dee-Jay rise kicks, etc... like they're safe pokes. I'm constantly dodging randomness since people don't seem to know any other way to deal with pressure. The worst part is that I bait it out and punish it probably 80+% of the time yet people keep doing it. It's like everyone has this mentality of been satisfied with winning one or two matches here and there when there randomness lands but losing the rest. It's also tough since a lot of these people who get random when getting pressured are also good players (a lot of GAF is guilty). So it's like dealing with the random recklessness of a flow charter combined with someone who has decent footsies, can combo well, and knows match-ups.
Then there are people who play run away despite me having a substantial life lead. It's always funny when I decide, with the life lead, that I'm sick of rushing down into someone's randomness so I hang back and they freeze for a few seconds before realizing they need to attack if they actually want to win. Though a lot of times my impatience gets the better of me and I continue to play offensively. Only to get rewarded by attacking into a headbutt -> ultra, or juri ex dive kick -> ultra, or ex seismo -> ultra, etc...
So many people complain about the defensive nature of the game but then invite it by showing their opponent they aren't afraid to play randomly or run away even when losing.
I feel you man, nothing I hate more than to be hit with a random ultra or dp, especially when mashed out through a block string. I guess you just gotta take the good with the bad when being a rushdown player. It doesn't make the player any better either, relying on a hailmary ultra instead of trying to clutch it out and win straight up.
Face it Tiger..
Banned
ggs gyrian,
GET BODIED.
GET BODIED.
I'm pretty sure a lot of that post was directed to me as well, I am trying to adjust, just some things are reactionary, even when they never work. A lot of us just don't have the natural talent to adjust that quickly, add to that chars that aren't easymode and you get randomness.
black_vegeta
Member
Seriously.Pandaman said:
I'm not going to sit and get poked to death.
dragonballjoseph
Member
Yeah. Back in vanilla, I would eat a DP nearly everytime I did the shorts for my scissors. Now, I get the link 95% of the time.Pandaman said:
Can't say it's the same for cr.jab >st.jab >cr.forward > scissors.
I think that's the problem.black_vegeta said:
Some people feel uncomfortable resorting to those tactics to win, yet understand why other people do it. I personally avoid mashing anything during opponent blockstrings because it just doesn't feel right to me (part of why I avoid motion chars). Sometimes people want to win matches based on guessing right alone and nothing else, but in a game where the engine itself offers assistance that isn't really the best mentality to get wins.
Pandaman said:
lol. there aren't any blockstrings in this game aside from jab xx jab xx jab. some characters are lucky because that can lead to shit on hit (link srk FADC ultra, easy hitconfirm into c.lk headbutt, etc.) but most characters don't get anything from it except push themselves outside of range and give up their advantage. some characters don't even get chainable lights so they have no tight blockstrings at all.
DarkoMaledictus
Tier Whore
jlai said:
My moto is do whatever it takes to get a win, yes mashing sometimes will work wonders! If you feel that's a problem just trick opponent with pauses within your block string... they will mash up their move and then do a mad punish
! Simple solution!Besides if mashing worked, it just means you dropped the ball and didn't time it right, so it was really your fault...
dragonballjoseph
Member
Yeah, mainly play charge characters because I would mash otherwise.Threi said:
And I can't really mash with Sakura or Cody.
Well, technically, you should mash with Cody since bad spray typically requires it. <_<
black_vegeta
Member
I usually through out a random/counter headbutt as a last resort or desperation move.Threi said:
AkumaHokoru
Member
scheduled but not confirmed.Gr1mLock said:
riceandbeans
Member
Kadey said:
Totally agree. What strategy may work on one player's character may not work on another because they may play as polar opposites, one being technical and patient and another random and aggressive.
Lost a close match to a patient 5000BP Cammy player the other day because I got over anxious with both ultras in the rounds hoping they'd cannon drill into it like the usual over aggressive Cammy's I encounter.
I wouldn't say that's necessarily true. For one, everyone has to deal with randomness. Two, it's frustrating to be in a situation where you don't have any idea what the hell to do against a character. Like you feel you might just be able to get over the top if you knew how to adjust to certain types of shenanigans. Or maybe you just don't have the necessary reaction time to deal with certain types of shenanigans. I don't see how you can quantify what's worse. You can tell me I should learn the matchups. I can tell you you should learn to be more patient, and deal with randomness better.AZ Greg said:Ugh, I'm starting to get so tired of some of the shit I have to put up with playing as Vega. And I'm not talking about his character weaknesses but the way people play my Vega.
I know some of you think it's annoying fighting Vega or my Vega, but it isn't half as bad as the shit I have to put up with. People using SRKs, Balrog headbutts, flash kicks, Cody bingos, HP thunder knuckles, Juri EX pinwheels, Adon/Dee-Jay rise kicks, etc... like they're safe pokes. I'm constantly dodging randomness since people don't seem to know any other way to deal with pressure. The worst part is that I bait it out and punish it probably 80+% of the time yet people keep doing it. It's like everyone has this mentality of been satisfied with winning one or two matches here and there when there randomness lands but losing the rest. It's also tough since a lot of these people who get random when getting pressured are also good players (a lot of GAF is guilty
Then there are people who play run away despite me having a substantial life lead. It's always funny when I decide, with the life lead, that I'm sick of rushing down into someone's randomness so I hang back and they freeze for a few seconds before realizing they need to attack if they actually want to win. Though a lot of times my impatience gets the better of me and I continue to play offensively. Only to get rewarded by attacking into a headbutt -> ultra, or juri ex dive kick -> ultra, or ex seismo -> ultra, etc...
So many people complain about the defensive nature of the game but then invite it by showing their opponent they aren't afraid to play randomly or run away even when losing.
I totally get that a certain play style may be frustrating to play against, and while we haven't played in awhile, I personally apologize if I've frustrated you with those tactics. If I do those things, I don't really do it on purpose. But even if I did. That's the game we play. DP's have insane priority. Ultras do like a billion damage and have invincibility frames. Things like that encourage those hail mary strategies that maybe only work 10%-20% of the time. But that's the game. Not every character has a reliable punish for an in-air escape Tatsu, or some other crazy get-out-of-jail-free move. But that's the game.
Also, you're a damn good player and you can't expect everyone to be on your level. Some people when faced with a 10 game losing streak just don't know what else to do. Not all of us have great discipline with this game. Not all of us take it seriously either.
Honestly though, I really don't want to start a fight with you or anything. You're a cool guy and I like playing with you. Also, I DEFINITELY understand the need to vent frustrations about the game. I get to near-Corky levels of rage when I play some of my friends who just like to random shit out. But that's the game I've chosen to try and play and get good at. One day I'll have enough practice to deal with that shit proper.
Sorry for all the random thoughts, or if I misunderstood where you were coming from. I actually don't think I really made any good points in that counter-rant. >_>
dude, i play hakan.blackadde said:
and i play against this guy:
I know the pain of random reversals and even just the threat of one but i also know that stuffs my fault.DarkoMaledictus said:My moto is do whatever it takes to get a win, yes mashing sometimes will work wonders! If you feel that's a problem just trick opponent with pauses within your block string... they will mash up their move and then do a mad punish
Besides if mashing worked, it just means you dropped the ball and didn't time it right, so it was really your fault...
what character do you play that is supposedly free to reversals and cant safely link into a move that leaves you on +?
OmnipotentO
Member
tell that to this guy lolsPandaman said:
black_vegeta
Member
Unfortunately, it's part of the game. Can't really do shit about randomized/dp'ed/headbutted/flash kicked out of your blockstrings.
Everyone is guilty of doing it.
Everyone is guilty of doing it.
Sure you can fix your block string, but chances are your block string has a 1 frame link(rufus), and gets beat by mash dp all the time if you miss it. You saw it in Daigo vs Ricky. One of the reasons why I can't sit down an enjoy this game. All this would of been fixed by a smaller reversal window, and would be much more enjoyable to play. At least when I play ST or third strike, I can have sloppy block strings and not get randomed by EX DP. Gah, this game could of been a much tighter game if they really wanted it to.
killdatninja
Banned
AZ Greg said:Ugh, I'm starting to get so tired of some of the shit I have to put up with playing as Vega. And I'm not talking about his character weaknesses but the way people play my Vega.
I know some of you think it's annoying fighting Vega or my Vega, but it isn't half as bad as the shit I have to put up with. People using SRKs, Balrog headbutts, flash kicks, Cody bingos, HP thunder knuckles, Juri EX pinwheels, Adon/Dee-Jay rise kicks, etc... like they're safe pokes. I'm constantly dodging randomness since people don't seem to know any other way to deal with pressure. The worst part is that I bait it out and punish it probably 80+% of the time yet people keep doing it. It's like everyone has this mentality of been satisfied with winning one or two matches here and there when there randomness lands but losing the rest. It's also tough since a lot of these people who get random when getting pressured are also good players (a lot of GAF is guilty
Then there are people who play run away despite me having a substantial life lead. It's always funny when I decide, with the life lead, that I'm sick of rushing down into someone's randomness so I hang back and they freeze for a few seconds before realizing they need to attack if they actually want to win. Though a lot of times my impatience gets the better of me and I continue to play offensively. Only to get rewarded by attacking into a headbutt -> ultra, or juri ex dive kick -> ultra, or ex seismo -> ultra, etc...
So many people complain about the defensive nature of the game but then invite it by showing their opponent they aren't afraid to play randomly or run away even when losing.
Guilty as charged, only counter argument I have it's not always random, even though sometimes it is. It's random in a sense that I try and punish your patterns (bad idea on my part
). Example, cr.jab-cr.jab-cr.strong, popular hit confirmable/block string for vegas (not a true block string...) and one of your faves, once I see the second jab I sometimes try and sneak a headbutt/ex-pinwheel because a majority of the time you'll go for the cr.strong and if you do it's 100% guaranteed damage (no trade). Granted, it's 100% not safe and you do bait and heavily punish it, but it's a pattern I noticed in your style of play. I don't do it with other vegas unless they go for the same pattern 100% of the time. It's bad I know but I'm trying to get rid of my bad habits..DarkoMaledictus
Tier Whore
Pandaman said:
Lol hehe
, always fun to play you panda =)!Well, I don't know specifics, but here's my guess based on how crouch teching works.Corky said:
Obviously, crouch teching works when you're in block stun, and since you're in block stun you can't take any action until you're out of it. The game allows you to stay blocked if someone continues a block string, and techs the throw if they try to throw. However, if you do neither of those things, a cr. short will come out. I would guess that if you think they're crouch teching you could just either a) throw out a move that will hit once they're out of block stun that you know will stuff their cr. short, or b) do nothing, wait for the cr. short to come out and punish on the recovery if you're somehow out of range or something. Dive kick pressure can really mess up crouch teching. I get burned all the time that way by Botox's Cammy.
AZ Greg said:Ugh, I'm starting to get so tired of some of the shit I have to put up with playing as Vega. And I'm not talking about his character weaknesses but the way people play my Vega.
I know some of you think it's annoying fighting Vega or my Vega, but it isn't half as bad as the shit I have to put up with. People using SRKs, Balrog headbutts, flash kicks, Cody bingos, HP thunder knuckles, Juri EX pinwheels, Adon/Dee-Jay rise kicks, etc... like they're safe pokes. I'm constantly dodging randomness since people don't seem to know any other way to deal with pressure. The worst part is that I bait it out and punish it probably 80+% of the time yet people keep doing it. It's like everyone has this mentality of been satisfied with winning one or two matches here and there when there randomness lands but losing the rest. It's also tough since a lot of these people who get random when getting pressured are also good players (a lot of GAF is guilty
Then there are people who play run away despite me having a substantial life lead. It's always funny when I decide, with the life lead, that I'm sick of rushing down into someone's randomness so I hang back and they freeze for a few seconds before realizing they need to attack if they actually want to win. Though a lot of times my impatience gets the better of me and I continue to play offensively. Only to get rewarded by attacking into a headbutt -> ultra, or juri ex dive kick -> ultra, or ex seismo -> ultra, etc...
So many people complain about the defensive nature of the game but then invite it by showing their opponent they aren't afraid to play randomly or run away even when losing.
I'm starting to enjoy fighting Vega more since I've had so much good match-up experience with yours. Speaking of which, I almost beat one of your "friends"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=835XJ6DchvkThis Vega REALLY wanted to bait out my Ultra but I got him to do his first =p
ShinobiFist
Banned
vocab said:
Why would you do a link combo to a opponent that is blocking and has a good reversal to begin with? Your asking for trouble. Gamerbee was exposing fools with his Rising Jag for example. But do I like it? No. This game has to many comeback mechanics is retarded. This is the first SF I'm actually afraid of attacking my opponents at times due to Ultra, Auto-Correct, EX Invincibility Moves, Lv.2 FA(People love using this when you jump at them with a attack) and Super.
Yeah, some could say"It will make you think twice on what to do and the mind games begin" But, not really, it opens up "randomness" IMO and turtling. When I play VF, KOF2K2 and SCIV. I don't feel that randomness at all because there's no "Enhance" feature of said move that changes its properties and gives it invincibility frames for example. I only play this game because my friends love it and I enjoy playing fighting games, regardless of some of the mechanics are not in my liking. I mean, not all SF games need to play the same.
vocab said:
You can punish crouching tech by not doing anything, then punishing the whiffed jab/short.
It's still stupid, but it's not broken or anything. Which is a good way to describe SSF4 in general- a good, well balanced game marred by some stupid design decisions, which keeps it from becoming great. In other words, the type of game that generates the most rage- because people know how great it could be, and how it just falls short of it. (mostly the stuff Shinobifist is talking about above, which is why I prefer the games he lists- except that 98UM > 02UM)
So I just got the game. Does anyone have any stuff like a... change-log, I suppose? An article or something explaining what's new and different and how it affects balance? Of course Evo is to blame for me getting it (and the lowered price). I'm just wondering what's new, really.
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