I shouldn't have to lower my standards in order to enjoy the product, and I refuse to do so.
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System Shock 2 Confirmed for GOG Release! Out Now! (Via RPS)
- Thread starter gragy10
- Start date
I shouldn't have to lower my standards in order to enjoy the product, and I refuse to do so.
Shock 2 is one of my favorite games of all time but I still loved Bioshock despite being watered down. It was definitely not Invisible War all over again (IW had much more significant problems).
Yeah, it really was. Both in gameplay and in level design (lol floaty golden arrow and item shimmer). In fact I give IW more credit as they didn't shamelessly rehash the
plot
GraveHorizon
poop meter feature creep
I haven't played Bioshock yet, so would it be better to play SS2 first?
Macmanus
Member
Such ridiculous hyperbole. Its a video game. Settle down.
He's more content to shit on something because it didn't fulfill his own personal expectations. If he wants to embody the stereotypical self entitled spoiled video game child, that is his prerogative.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
You could turn those off you know.
Nah, not connected at all.
Cramoss
Member
yeah yeah the game was dumbed down gameplay wise but I still enjoyed it a lot. try to enjoy it for what it is already and not for what it could've been.
I enjoyed it to, but it's much worse than System Shock 2 (or Bioshock 2 for that matter).
You should have disabled the arrow.
dragonlife
Member
Time to finally play this.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
You know, that's the thing. Having never experienced SS2, I had nothing to compare BioShock to and I absolutely loved that game. So I'm genuinely excited to play SS2 for the first time.
How about you try forming an actual counter-response other than "lol video games"?
Only the former, and it doesn't change the fact that the game was designed to be played with it on in mind. Granted, it's not as unplayable as skyrim without quest markers, but you'll still be wandering aimlessly as the in game descriptors for where to go leave much to be desired as they take into account that you are playing with the floaty arrow on. Item shimmer is locked on for main game stuffs, because you know, we are too stupid to understand the big ass switch in the center of the room needs to be activated without it glowing a bright gold.
It's not official. They simply slowed it down from 1.0 and added a way for people to turn it off via ini editing. I suggest you play with it on. The game showers you with enough maintenance tools for it never to be a problem if you level maintenance a bit, anyways. Also DON'T LEVEL REPAIR. It's pretty much entirely useless save for *minor gameplay spoilers*
getting the shotgun a bit early.
I'm talking about my personal experience. I gave it an honest shot, and I really can't play it. The intro hooked me, and I wanted to play more, but then when I starting going through all these places, and going on fetch quests I became bored almost instantly.
cheststrongwell
my cake, fuck off
Day 4899! Can't wait!
I'm sorry to tell you but it was just you. I immediately turned the arrow off and had no problems navigating the levels.
Macmanus
Member
Why in the hell would I attempt to counter your inane ramblings? It would be akin to debating a two year old throwing a tantrum.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Is there a patch that removes the things you shouldn't do but aren't warned about then? I don't really wanna read about the whole game before playing just to avoid such situations that don't come from bad choices but from bad balance with useless skills etc, with the threat of min maxing my character and making it too easy for me by reading too much...
Good for you; that doesn't mean they didn't design for it on in mind. Which you know, is why it's on by default.
The only one who seems to be throwing a tantrum here is you, considering instead of formulating a real counter argument you're content with just shitting out ad hominem attack after ad hominem attack.
There is no bad build, really. It's just that with the patch that drastically improved weapon durability repair became meaningless against maintenance as the chance that your gun would actually break went down to essentially zero. On 1.0 repair is worth taking in the early points as your guns will be breaking a lot as the maint tools you get + maint lvl + weapon degradation status of weapons you pick up will be > the number of main tools you can feasibly find. Now repair is pretty worthless, tbqh.
ThatsMytrunks
Member
Any chance we can get an injector of some sort in there to render 3D and hook the camera to an alternate input?
Mainly because I'd love to play this game with the Oculus Rift. :O
Mainly because I'd love to play this game with the Oculus Rift. :O
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
You can absolutely get in situations where you have to restart completely. You'll know by Deck 4 or 5 whether you dun goofed with your stat building and ammo management or not.
But it's fun because the game is fun
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
That's an absurd wish even by pipe dream standards. And even if it was just textures it would look ridiculous with the existing polycount. The game is old as fuck and plays like it's age so what's wrong with just playing it with vanilla assets?
GoddyofAus
Banned
All this hate for Bioshock from SS2 diehards is borderline delusional. Bioshock is a spiritual successor, not a direct sequel. It should always have been judged on its own merits. It's time that the Looking Glass fans got the hell over it.
Dead Space, beat-for-beat, mimics System Shock 2 fairly well. Start off in an engineering bit, head to medical, later head to hydroponics, etc.
Even the twist is similar, albeit better done in System Shock 2.
A spiritual successor should be as ambitious, if not better than, its predecessor. It should not be a lesser game in nearly every way.
You can absolutely get in situations where you have to restart completely. You'll know by Deck 4 or 5 whether you dun goofed with your stat building and ammo management or not.
But it's fun because the game is fun
What?
What are you talking about? I've never encountered this.
As I recall, System Shock 2 was a fairly significant part of Bioshock's marketing. Ken Levine continually brought the game up in interviews in the lead-up to Bioshock's release. If he didn't want to set unrealistic expectations, maybe he should have tried a different strategy.
Regardless, Bioshock has its own problems outside of comparisons to SS2. I thought Bioshock 2 improved on the gameplay substantially.
GoddyofAus
Banned
Opinions be opinions, man. People are too busy trying to compare it to an ancient game from the '90's, instead of comparing it to the games of its time, which is fundamentally shits all over on every level. To suggest that Bioshock is a shit game because it wasn't developed to be balls retreating into the body level hard is just naive at best and willfully ignorant of the nature of the modern industry at worst. If you don't leave plenty of room for mass market appeal, you'll suffer in sales and publishers will be more prone to knee jerk reactions when their share price drops a couple of cents. That's just a sad fact. I believe Irrational did their best to balance both.
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
To me, Dead Space always felt more like System Shock than Bioshock ever did.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
I had a Hard playthrough where I had to go back to the beginning because I had no ammo. I was on Recreation deck. I guess theoretically if you got into a fubar situation with no ammo or medkits and lots of tough enemies like Birth Mothers and Security Mechs you could just keep spawning at the reconstruction chamber from nanites and wrench enemies to death...you would surely beat the game. But that's not how I like to play.
If you're careful, though, it shouldn't be an issue. SS2 is not a "hard" game in the sense that it takes a lot of skill or intelligence. But the game does take discretion.
It's on by default because most people are sheep like following very precisely defined objectives. Hence the popularity of shooters like Half-Life, Call of Duty or Uncharted that remove exploration altogether. But level design in Bioshock was fine and easily navigable without the arrow.
No, I disagree.
Invisible War wasn't simply bad as a result of being dumbed down. No, it goes deeper than that. The engine they created for IW (custom UE2) was shit. Unlike the original, it could only handle very small maps which resulted in load screens around nearly every corner. This limitation had a direct impact on every single area in the game. Each of those loading screens were also obscenely long which resulted in a lot of waiting around.
Bioshock at least present large maps and good atmosphere along with decent gameplay mechanics. The game was simplified from SS2 by a great margin but what was there was still very good. Invisible War was NOT good. At all.
BloodMoney
Banned
Great VS Good... there are more important things to get heated about.
GoddyofAus
Banned
That's the problem though; there is grounds to say that this is a debate about great vs. great, if you factor in the changing nature of the industry, the audience it caters to and the adaption you have to go through to keep up.
Oh, hell yes! I can't wait to barricade myself in the elevator, play some Overworld Zero, and research some annelid organs!
[rant]
Also, to all the haters, Systems and Bios alike, just stop. Both are completely different games, with completely different game-play styles. Comparing System Shock 2 to Bioshock, and vice-verse, is like comparing Fallout 2 to Fallout 3 or Apples to Androids. System Shock is a RPG first, a FPS second, and it shows. Bioshock is just an FPS with RPG-like "selectable and swappable" abilities or perks. In System Shock, you can tailor your character how you see fit. However, that also means choosing between different abilities that would allow you to use or do certain things in the game. Not to mention, there is no going back. Once you've made your choice you are stuck with your build until you make a new character. Need more power to kill that big guy over there? Well, I guess you should have thought about that when you were trying to decide between that
Bioshock? Nah, totally different. Need more power to splatter a big daddy? No problem, go visit the gene bank and swap out a tonic. Oh, you want to be more stealthy? No problem, go visit the gene bank and swap out a tonic, although, that probably means you'll have to lose your ability to splatter big daddies. Oh, but don't worry you little cry baby, just come back later and swap your tonics again! System Shock is meant to be hard and unforgiving. Bioshock caters to the whiny little baby in all of us, much like most games do now-a-days.
[/rant]
So, anyway, both are great games in their own regards and you can't compare them to each other. Just tl;dr and continue.
[rant]
Also, to all the haters, Systems and Bios alike, just stop. Both are completely different games, with completely different game-play styles. Comparing System Shock 2 to Bioshock, and vice-verse, is like comparing Fallout 2 to Fallout 3 or Apples to Androids. System Shock is a RPG first, a FPS second, and it shows. Bioshock is just an FPS with RPG-like "selectable and swappable" abilities or perks. In System Shock, you can tailor your character how you see fit. However, that also means choosing between different abilities that would allow you to use or do certain things in the game. Not to mention, there is no going back. Once you've made your choice you are stuck with your build until you make a new character. Need more power to kill that big guy over there? Well, I guess you should have thought about that when you were trying to decide between that
sixth point in heavy weapons, which would have allowed you to use that MASSIVE fusion cannon, or that fourth point in energy weapons so you can run around like a Jedi with your energy saber.
[/rant]
So, anyway, both are great games in their own regards and you can't compare them to each other. Just tl;dr and continue.
You can absolutely get in situations where you have to restart completely. You'll know by Deck 4 or 5 whether you dun goofed with your stat building and ammo management or not.
But it's fun because the game is fun
It should be noted that players have been able to finish the game on hard or impossible by just using the wrench (with the proper build of course). I tried and failed but I was able to fight my way though most enemies with just the wrench. It obviously takes some skill and a lot of practice but the point is that even if someone screws up the build the wrench can get them out of almost anything.
One tip is to increase your strength as this will increase melee damage but also increase amount of items that you can carry.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I don't think the HQ textures linked look any worse than the defaults, I don't see how even better textures than those would be.
BloodMoney
Banned
Well in that regard i'd argue the industry is changing for the worse. Case in point: SS2 is the best game ever made and it's over a decade old.
cartman414
Member
You're missing the point. You're free to speak your mind, but not to slag on the other person for no reason.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
I always do that up to two points from the max. I found that gave me more than enough inventory space.
Also for the Rickenbacker I would always spend a crapload of nanites on medkits.
MajorGravy
Neo Member
Finally I can't wait to add this fantastic game series to my GOG library.
Hopefully SWAT 4 is next.
Hopefully SWAT 4 is next.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
No, you. Take it to pm kthx.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
I'm pretty sure the maps were small because of the limitations of the Xbox.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Well, their inability to get a better engine and/or otherwise compromise in different graphical areas in order to have larger levels on the Xbox, yeah... They did a bad job, I wouldn't excuse them because of one of the platforms.
GoddyofAus
Banned
That's an entirely seperate argument and I would agree with you but I don't see how Bioshock needs to cop a belting or be treated as a worse game in the context of its time just because Irrational has been forced to change with the times.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
I'm not excusing them, I was pointing out that the engine wasn't necessarily the limitation. The UT200- games had some massive maps that ran just fine on PC.