Support NeoGAF

[J@hranimo]

Hmm the reasoning makes sense....except Ice Climbers were introduced in Melee.

This honestly doesn't bug me, but at least he's now giving some more insight about the development process. I wonder what else will be said about these games later down the line? Especially since it's looking like what we know that's coming is all we'll get.

 

[leroidys]

Takamaru would be cool, but it doesn't seem like a huge loss TBH.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

Explanations like this one for not including certain characters wouldn't be so bad if they were consistent with past roster additions. Takamaru's too obscure, yet G&W is a mainstay. Tak had no recent games, though Pit got into SSB: Brawl, and so forth. Same goes for a few other characters that didn't get in.

It'd be better if Sakurai just stuck to saying there wasn't enough time to add some of the cut/considered characters, something that no one would question considering all the work put into the game and its development time.

You're the inconsistent one here.

Game and Watch aren't that obscure, they sold quite well for their time, and were influential leading to many other handheld systems such as the Game Boy, and other LCD-devices such as those made by Tiger Electronics. Their cultural relevance is leagues beyond Takamaru's.

Furthermore, even around Melee Nintendo was making sure they stayed in the eye of 'modern' gamers through the Game and Watch Gallery Series.

I agree that Takamaru isn't that much different from Pit's situation in Brawl, but Pit enjoyed retro popularity from both sides of the pond while Takamaru was unknown to most outside of Japan. And even then, just because one character got an exception doesn't mean the other would as well...Brawl and Smash 4 came out in different environments, and the character pool they had to draw from was different. It seems to me Smash 4 had way more fresh blood to use than Brawl did, so skipping over an obscure retro character in favor of some new faces probably was more important.

 

[woopWOOP]

Aw man. I was totally sure he'd make the cut the moment SSB4 was announced too, ha. The special moves would've been awesome, plus if they'd also give him his own stage it'd be the first feudal Japan stage for Smash (with some extra awesome Shamisan remixes)

Well, better luck next game! (like Dixie Kong and Saki and....)

 

[Lee Chaolan]

You'll always have Samurai Warriors 3

 

[IntelliHeath]

@Heath: Yeah, I feel kinda optimistic for Smash 5 too but that's so many years off it's not worth thinking about here and now.

You got a point there but at least I will be right there with you whenever it happens. I'm not even thinking about Smash 5 because it will be a long waiting.

Not exactly. It's a pretty safe bet that Takamaru was contending with Duck Hunt to get in as a retro rep. Duck Hunt is a lot more well known in this case.

That's what I'm thinking.

 

[Fandangox]

You'll always have Samurai Warriors 3

But that's the worst Samurai Warriors.

 

[Lee Chaolan]

But that's the worst Samurai Warriors.

Tell me about it >_> No Musashi or Kojiro either

 

[Neoxon]

Can you link me to an official statement of Sakurai that says that AT characters cannot become playable at all?

Not in this game, though Takamaru can be promoted next game (like Little Mac).

 

[Swhalen]

Oh what the fuck Sakurai.


In before "lolz should have been in before Dark Pit/Lucina/Dr.Mario" without having any thought on why and how clones are added.

Interesting, why do they add the clone characters?

 

[Red Arremer]

Not in this game, though Takamaru can be promoted next game (like Little Mac).

Can you link me to an official statement of Sakurai that says that?

 

[Ahnez]

... interesting

Spoiler

maybe next time

 

[chaosblade]

Interesting, why do they add the clone characters?

Copy and paste from the last page:

They require a lot less effort than an original/non-clone character. Sakurai has said to basically think of them as a "bonus."

For Melee, he basically chose between adding a single additional unique character (Dedede, IIRC) and all 6 clones, and opted for the 6 clones instead. It's hard to imagine a world where Ganondorf wasn't introduced until Brawl, and Falco was never in Smash!

 

[CertifiedFP]

For the guys making the Marth in Melee comparison, you guys do realize that Fire Emblem wasn't actually a no-show in the US before Melee, right?

Sure, none of the games got localized, but the anime adaptation of the first game (Or Mystery of the Emblem, I forgot) did. There were westerners who knew what FE was before Melee, myself included.

 

[Neoxon]

Can you link me to an official statement of Sakurai that says that?

I just recall it being stated back in Brawl, & the Waluigi PotD with him not being playable.

 

[R0ckman]

Copy and paste from the last page:

They require a lot less effort than an original/non-clone character. Sakurai has said to basically think of them as a "bonus."

For Melee, he basically chose between adding a single additional unique character (Dedede, IIRC) and all 6 clones, and opted for the 6 clones instead. It's hard to imagine a world where Ganondorf wasn't introduced until Brawl, and Falco was never in Smash!

Considering how dorf was handled, this probably would have been for the best.

 

[Gartooth]

It is kind of weird Takamaru was thrown out for being too obscure given how so many of the characters in Smash are already pretty damn obscure. I suppose the only thing that differentiates him from Marth and Roy in Melee was that at the very least in Fire Emblem's case, it was a long running series rather than a one-off NES game.

 

[CertifiedFP]

It is kind of weird Takamaru was thrown out for being too obscure given how so many of the characters in Smash are already pretty damn obscure. I suppose the only thing that differentiates him from Marth and Roy in Melee was that at the very least in Fire Emblem's case, it was a long running series rather than a one-off NES game.

For the guys making the Marth in Melee comparison, you guys do realize that Fire Emblem wasn't actually a no-show in the US before Melee, right?

Sure, none of the games got localized, but the anime adaptation of the first game (Or Mystery of the Emblem, I forgot) did. There were westerners who knew what FE was before Melee, myself included.

Either I'm special or I don't really see any of Smash 4's cast as obscure. Care to give a non-Marth example?

ROB doesn't count either, AVGN did a video on him with over 3 million views.

 

[MrSaturn99]

Maybe next time.

also those gonintendo comments are barf-inducing.

 

[R0ckman]

Either I'm special or I don't really see any of Smash 4's cast as obscure. Care to give a non-Marth example?

ROB doesn't count either, AVGN did a video on him with over 3 million views.

You honestly think the views were for ROB and not AVGN himself? Come'on now.

 

[Jawmuncher]

Would have been better than quite a few who did make it in.
But no one can compare to snake.

 

[CertifiedFP]

Not to mention that whole missing out on Fire Emblem in the states thing as well.

FALSCH.

Fire Emblem US localization was planned after Advance Wars' western success. Not Marth's popularity in Melee.

You honestly think the views were for ROB and not AVGN himself? Come'on now.

T'would seem there has been an epidemic of people finding creative ways to misinterpret my posts lately.

 

[GamerSoul]

I don't think they fully understand what Smash can do for characters, hell for Nintendo....this game provides one the best and safest opportunities to introduce some of the lesser known or new characters. I mean we got Marth/Roy and a redesigned Pit which led to us getting some amazing games... It just boggles my mind sometimes.

FALSCH.

Fire Emblem US localization was planned after Advance Wars' western success. Not Marth's popularity in Melee.

I still think it helped a lot. Maybe it's not a coincidence that we still do not have an AW character in smash

 

[Jawmuncher]

Depends on what you consider Obscure. A lot of these characters would honestly not be as well known if not for Smash Bros. Mr Game and Watch is a perfect example. Shulk actually fits in as well due to the limited release in the US and late title in the Wiis life as well. I had to tell everyone I knew who the hell he was. While obviously anyone who frequents a forum or is a nintendo fan would know who he was.
All in all though I would say Takamaru would have been the most obscure character had he made it in.

I don't think they fully understand what Smash can do for characters, hell for Nintendo....this game provides one the best and safest opportunities to introduce some of the lesser known or new characters. I mean we got Marth/Roy and a redesigned Pit which led to us getting some amazing games... It just boggles my mind sometimes.

Yeah it is kind of funny how they treat it. Hell they would probably be better off putting characters in Smash first and then releasing their game to draw awareness more so than a lot of other things.
Or if anything as was the case with pit, using it as a base to revive a older character as you said.

 

[DaBoss]

I'm not sure why people are fixated on reasons that some characters in SSB64, Melee, and Brawl got in.

This is Smash 4.

 

[IntelliHeath]

I don't think they fully understand what Smash can do for characters, hell for Nintendo....this game provides one the best and safest opportunities to introduce some of the lesser known or new characters. I mean we got Marth/Roy and a redesigned Pit which led to us getting some amazing games... It just boggles my mind sometimes.

I think that it might be an excuse. Can you really expect that Sakurai would openly admit that Takamaru had good chance to become playable character In Smash 4 so everyone would starting to expect to see him as playable character in Smash 5?

That's why he kept most of excluded characters from melee and brawl to himself, and shared it to the public after they made in. Like Dedede, Villager and Mii.

I wonder why he decided to share it now so I guess something might happens regard with Sakurai (or the Smash franchise itself)

 

[lupinko]

Smash needs more Mike Jones dammit.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Also I would like to point out that Takamaru's game finally got released in EU and NA for Virtual Console, so I wonder what's going to happens with Mysterious Murasame Castle franchise itself now.

I meant Sin and Punishment got released on VC for NA then we got Sin and Punishment 2. It could meant something.

 

[Nanashrew]

I need Takamaru playable, Sakurai!

 

[shaowebb]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

Edit: This logic makes NO fucking sense when this is the series that made a large part of the Nintendo fanbase aware of what the fuck Fire Emblem was. That and I got fucking robbed of my iaijutsu character two times in a row for Smash. Totally sad right now.

I'm so sorry for you man. I know how much this had to hurt.

 

[jerry1594]

Lack of familiarity within the fanbase?

LOL

When has being obscurity stopped them from implementing a character until now?

When has it not?

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

Edit: This logic makes NO fucking sense when this is the series that made a large part of the Nintendo fanbase aware of what the fuck Fire Emblem was. That and I got fucking robbed of my iaijutsu character two times in a row for Smash. Totally sad right now.

It's not like they were still making games with him in it. Let me go back and play this broken famicom disk game lol.

 

[Starwolf_UK]

I wonder if Plusie and Minun and Toon Zelda were also considered...

For the guys making the Marth in Melee comparison, you guys do realize that Fire Emblem wasn't actually a no-show in the US before Melee, right?

Sure, none of the games got localized, but the anime adaptation of the first game (Or Mystery of the Emblem, I forgot) did. There were westerners who knew what FE was before Melee, myself included.

Avid Nintendo Power readers also knew what Fire Emblem was. In that 1996 lull in the SNES library as everyone had run off to the 32 bit systems and the N64 wasn't out they had to talk about something so why not Japanese SNES games you'll never play and so Fire Emblem Holy War had coverage. I'd say that hit a bigger audience than the anime (the anime meant so much to treehouse they didn't name Marth, Mars which is what his name was localised to in the anime and elsewhere before Melee

Spoiler

I know how those fans feel now thanks to Jagen, Gordin, Seliph, Ced and others

).

The Falchion was in Kirby Super Star during the great cave offensive but was renamed.

 

[Azure J]

Also I would like to point out that Takamaru's game finally got released in EU and NA for Virtual Console, so I wonder what's going to happens with Mysterious Murasame Castle franchise itself now.

I meant Sin and Punishment got released on VC for NA then we got Sin and Punishment 2. It could meant something.

I don't like hedging bets on Nintendo development based on coincidences, but it has felt like there was some internal plan to re-introduce the character that either hasn't happened yet or got scuttled somewhat for whatever reason.

Smash needs more Mike Jones dammit.

Preach.

 

[Gonzo The Great]

I don't like hedging bets on Nintendo development based on coincidences, but it has felt like there was some internal plan to re-introduce the character that either hasn't happened yet or got scuttled somewhat for whatever reason.

I agree. I still find Takamaru's presence in Nintendo Land to be suspicious, considering they could have re branded it to have a Kid Icarus motif or something. Maybe they're saving him as DLC, and his release will coincidence with the announcement of a new game.

Or maybe they just ran out of time and don't care. I think that's more likely.

 

[Neoxon]

I agree. I still find Takamaru's presence in Nintendo Land to be suspicious, considering they could have re branded it to have a Kid Icarus motif or something. Maybe they're saving him as DLC, and his release will coincidence with the announcement of a new game.

Or maybe they just ran out of time and don't care. I think that's more likely.

If they had plans to make him playable, Takamaru wouldn't have been an Assist Trophy.

 

[Ryce]

I agree. I still find Takamaru's presence in Nintendo Land to be suspicious, considering they could have re branded it to have a Kid Icarus motif or something.

Murasame Castle was the best thematic fit for that E3 shuriken tech demo. I don't think Nintendo gave it too much thought or had any ulterior motives.

 

[IntelliHeath]

I don't like hedging bets on Nintendo development based on coincidences, but it has felt like there was some internal plan to re-introduce the character that either hasn't happened yet or got scuttled somewhat for whatever reason.

I'm not sure if they are going to drop it anytime soon. They already put a lot into it right now.

1. Takamaru's mini-game in Nintendo Land
2. Cameos in other games
3. Mysterious Murasame Castle got released on VC

I think we are going to see something at E3 (or anytime before E3 with one more Direct)

I agree. I still find Takamaru's presence in Nintendo Land to be suspicious, considering they could have re branded it to have a Kid Icarus motif or something. Maybe they're saving him as DLC, and his release will coincidence with the announcement of a new game.

Or maybe they just ran out of time and don't care. I think that's more likely.

Uhhh, I'm not going to ask any question about your tag. What a nice tag you got there.

Spoiler

mind you, I was being sarcasm

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

Seems like Sakurai doesn't know what the fanbase wants, or he just doesn't give a shit.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Seems like Sakurai doesn't know what the fanbase wants, or he just doesn't give a shit.

Huh? That comments was kinda weird since Takamaru don't really have A HUGE fanbase, but it was decent-sized but loud crowds. I admitted that I was pretty loud about Takamaru during hype threads.

 

[Cipherr]

Can you imagine how many characters he 'considered' silently over the course of these games?

I would love for him to list them all just to see the fanbase lose their shit over the 'inconsistency'.

 

[GamerSoul]

Yeah it is kind of funny how they treat it. Hell they would probably be better off putting characters in Smash first and then releasing their game to draw awareness more so than a lot of other things.
Or if anything as was the case with pit, using it as a base to revive a older character as you said.

exactly, and I have no doubt Sakurai would have made Takamaru an amazing and standout character if he wanted to. but we'll see if it ever happens! :x

I think that it might be an excuse. Can you really expect that Sakurai would openly admit that Takamaru had good chance to become playable character In Smash 4 so everyone would starting to expect to see him as playable character in Smash 5?

That's why he kept most of excluded characters from melee and brawl to himself, and shared it to the public after they made in. Like Dedede, Villager and Mii.

I wonder why he decided to share it now so I guess something might happens regard with Sakurai (or the Smash franchise itself)

I think you're right, it could be a convenient explanation. And what makes it even more interesting is that with character dlc now a thing, we have no idea if this type "confession" changes anything for a character. lol

 

[DoctorFling]

Assuming it was a toss-up between Takamaru and Duck Hunt Duo for the new NES/Famicom rep, I'm glad they went with DHD.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Seems like Sakurai doesn't know what the fanbase wants, or he just doesn't give a shit.

This is in the OP

In the linked video, Sakurai also discusses being very aware of all the various insane character suggestions on Miiverse.

The words "insane" and "Smash fanbase" are impossible to separate.

 

[Ricky 7]

Would have been better than quite a few who did make it in.
But no one can compare to snake.

They say something about Snake in the video, hope someone translates this video soon.

 

[Masked Man]

Nice to hear that Sakurai at least considered him for inclusion. Maybe we'll even have something to look forward to in Smash 6!

Interesting that he also considered Ayumi Tachibana from Famicon Detective Club back in the SSBM days!

 

[Qurupeke]

Sakurai knew about Naruto, Goku.

 

[Naked Prime]

Give Takamaru his Wii U action game from Platinum first then we can talk about him being in Smash

 

[Troubled Bat]

Give Takamaru his Wii U action game from Platinum first then we can talk about him being in Smash

KAMIYA PLS ;_;

 

[AHA-Lambda]

 

[foxuzamaki]

That's what I'm thinking.

So how much did you bribe sakurai