SinCityAssassin
Member
A lot of game jolt fan games are blatant rips so I can stomach it.
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TechRaptor: Nintendo DMCAs Game Jolt, Takes Down 500+ Fangames
- Thread starter Calm Mind
- Start date
I think it's also important to note that the ceiling a what a fan can do and the bottom of what Nintendo can do (in some ways) has come closer over the years.
Super Mario Bros. X, was a great level maker that could do things that SMM couldn't.
AMR2, (since it's basically an HD remaster thing) is a more definitive 30th Anniversary Metroid game than Federation Force could hope to be.
Letting things like this slide would eventually just continue to get worse for Nintendo... although it's debatable how big the effect is.
TheGamingBox
Banned
uhh super mario bros x was never taken down by nintendo, edit: not sure now
KidGalactus
Member
Then, they should just do that anyway.
I'm confused by that whole situation with SMBX, but overall the point still stands. Stuff like that can make things messy.
I'm pretty sure the only thing that is making them keep the mother branding is that Itoi quote.
BlazeHedgehog
Member
lol
What about the starfleet badge in your avatar? Did you make that? Did you make the "Only on Nintendo" image that overlays it?
Fangames are harmless. This is like if J.K. Rowling sent copyright takedown notices to 45% of Fanfiction.net over Harry Potter.
There are too many Nintendo cheerleaders in this thread who think fangames are tantamount to piracy and that's a ridiculous stance to take.
A Black Falcon
Member
So the update in the link in the OP says that games on that site can make some money off of ads, so while players don't pay anything, the creators can make some money off of Nintendo's IP. On those grounds there is some defense for what Nintendo is doing here...
But still, yeah, Nintnedo is very much in the wrong. The tiny amounts of ad revenues are surely minimal, and, importantly, no player is paying a cent to play these games. If the players were paying I'd be quite fine with Nintendo taking down the games, but they aren't. So, yes, I agree that between this and their takedown of the Metroid 2 remake, Nintendo is going in an unfortunate and bad direction with their overly active takedowns of games made by some of their more devoted fans. You should appreciate fans that dedicated, not try to destroy their work... free fangames aren't hurting Nintendo's IP.
But still, yeah, Nintnedo is very much in the wrong. The tiny amounts of ad revenues are surely minimal, and, importantly, no player is paying a cent to play these games. If the players were paying I'd be quite fine with Nintendo taking down the games, but they aren't. So, yes, I agree that between this and their takedown of the Metroid 2 remake, Nintendo is going in an unfortunate and bad direction with their overly active takedowns of games made by some of their more devoted fans. You should appreciate fans that dedicated, not try to destroy their work... free fangames aren't hurting Nintendo's IP.
going by all the decisions ninty has been making as of late, i'd guess iwata did a whole lot more than what he was given credit for
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Next they are going to go after fanfic, then porn.
Japanmanx3
Member
Business is business.
So Nintendo is going on a fan-game hunt lately? What a shocker.....
I think at this point, its painfully clear that its best to not bother even making Nintendo fan games, as they just don't like the fan community working on Nintendo content.
I can understand AM2R being shut down by Nintendo (its a remake of a game they are selling & they had another Metroid game releasing in that same month) but the recent efforts to curb other fan game productions is just baffling to me.
Going to research into this before providing a stronger opinion on this matter but Nintendo seems to have a clear message to the gaming community; ONLY Nintendo makes games using Nintendo IP, not the fans or other people.
That is fine. Just that people will either start ignoring Nintendo games or rather make Nintendo-inspired games with no ties to any IP.
I think at this point, its painfully clear that its best to not bother even making Nintendo fan games, as they just don't like the fan community working on Nintendo content.
I can understand AM2R being shut down by Nintendo (its a remake of a game they are selling & they had another Metroid game releasing in that same month) but the recent efforts to curb other fan game productions is just baffling to me.
Going to research into this before providing a stronger opinion on this matter but Nintendo seems to have a clear message to the gaming community; ONLY Nintendo makes games using Nintendo IP, not the fans or other people.
That is fine. Just that people will either start ignoring Nintendo games or rather make Nintendo-inspired games with no ties to any IP.
LightningXCE
Member
I want to say it was the monitization and ad-laiden nature of said flash games, rather than their existence.
GamingOblivion
Banned
This is the same company that flips their shit when you happen to use their game footage in a let's play, review, etc etc.
While people go on and on about EA being the world's worst company or Konami being little shits that ruin game franchises, I've never seen a company act so antagonistic towards their very large and dedicated fanbase. Fuck 'em.
It's one of those cases where something ridiculous is being normalized because it keeps happening.
GoldandBlue
Member
Meanwhile, on the Apple store.
Whether you agree or not, there is definitely a sense that Nintendo is being rather hostile with its fans as of late. They're absolutely in the right, so to say, but the perception around them right now is not good at all.
It likely won't change anything in regards to NX but...I do think the launch of Xbox One is something to keep in mind here. Winning hearts and minds of fans on the Internet is not something that should be ignored.
It likely won't change anything in regards to NX but...I do think the launch of Xbox One is something to keep in mind here. Winning hearts and minds of fans on the Internet is not something that should be ignored.
Neuromancer
Member
They're probably doing it for legal reasons. If you don't take affirmative steps to protect your trademarks, for example, Im pretty sure you can lose them.
SinCityAssassin
Member
You think they'll hit the Play Store next?
Well Nintendo basically sponsors and supports Smash Tournaments under the stipulation that Project M not be ran. At least, that's my understanding. So instead of outright killing it, Nintendo just squeezed it out.
And the AM2R guy just got a direct DMCA takedown notice from Nintendo, so it won't be updated anymore.
This is an (oft repeated) exaggeration, especially in the realm of goods classified as art. If it were needed we'd be seeing every company on the planet acting the same way, and certainly not, for instance, Sega hiring fan game creators.
BlazeHedgehog
Member
Only because Nintendo is in a position where nobody they're effecting can stop them.
GhostTrick
Banned
I can understand Nintendo. I'd also be mad if a team of 1 to 5 people did better games than I do nowadays.
Is Sega in danger of losing the Sonic franchise?
Companies can protect IPs without acting outright hostile towards fan creators.
I would honestly feel better if Mother 4 wasn't Mother 4 and just became "Father" or "Grandmother" in order to keep its origin closer. Plus, I'd rather see it on Steam for $20 with frequent sales as low as $8 after a year of it being on Steam. It's an impressive game that I would happily pay full price for. That talent shouldn't be wasted on a free fan game. Fuck Nintendo.
SerTapTap
Member
Had slightly hoped they might soften their stance after the AM2R situation, I see they're going all in. I can only hope people stop defending their actions and start calling them out for being ridiculous. Nintendo fans do the company no favors by encouraging them to continue down an gross path.
-Mutsukki-
Member
They sure weren't in danger of losing their Streets of Rage IP when they took down that fangame years ago, but they did anyway. Which is fine, because they're in their rights.
I really dislike how Sega suddenly became the good role model, Valve is a good model for employing modders, Sega is really just being opportunistic. Sonic Mania started after that guy was already hired by them after porting Sonic CD and other games.
What did he mean by this?
Member
As long as [NAME REDACTED] is safe...
It's got Luffy in it!
It's got Luffy in it!
C.Olimar788
Member
This sentence, this exact sentence right here, is why these takedowns make me so sad. That consumers look at fangames and say "man I wish they had been original" because of companies like Nintendo that overstep what can ever be considered reasonable protection of copyright. That I as a game developer have to say "I do not want to waste my time on a fangame that could be taken off the internet at any moment."
It's awful. It's just awful.
Neff
Member
They've been surprisingly complacent about letting people get away with asset/likeness theft for a long time. Now they seem to be getting things done all at once, which I attribute to their recent attempts to re-assert their brand awareness.
If they're putting money and effort into a 'hey, remember Nintendo games?' campaign, why would they also be willing to leave a bunch of games lying around for people to get their Nintendo fix if the company owning these IPs doesn't get anything from it?
Yep, I don't think the timing is a coincidence.
Thanks for posting this OP! I also wrote a quick article regarding this morning's second DMCA of A2MR if anyone is interested.
http://techraptor.net/content/nintendo-dmca-am2r-developer-personally
I'm trying to find more examples of sites taking stuff down since the Game Jolt sweep being so huge suggests that there are others. This whole story is just a huge bummer on all sides.
http://techraptor.net/content/nintendo-dmca-am2r-developer-personally
I'm trying to find more examples of sites taking stuff down since the Game Jolt sweep being so huge suggests that there are others. This whole story is just a huge bummer on all sides.
Mania has nothing to do with this. The Sonic fangame community has been robust and out in the open for well over a decade, if not longer. The largest fansite out there called Sonic Retro, whom Sega has a history of directly communicating to (pretty sure the guys who run the Sonic Twitter right now is from there) is basically the hub for this kind of fan activity. Heck, I did some minor texture work on a 3D fan game that used official assets from Gens over a year before Mania was a thing.
Don't think I can just waltz in and claim the Sonic The Hedgehog trademark due to this.
Well Sega now allows mod support on the Genesis hub, so at least they're somewhat fostering fan game/mod communities.
While Nintendo has Mario Maker, that's still not fan-gamey enough for some, I guess. It's also extremely limited in terms of what it can do.
Stuff like what Valve does for Half-Life and what Capcom did for the Mega Man games isn't just random fandom, though. Those people got IP protection under the company's wing to do that stuff. Nintendo doesn't do that because everyone and their mother would be knocking on their door if they did it and that'd really dilute their brands.
-Mutsukki-
Member
That may be and I'm not saying they're not doing a wonderful job. They really are and these kinds of actions should be celebrated more, but all I'm saying is that I don't think it's 100% goodwill either, they also have a track record of being shitty with these stuff. Also Sonic brand is one that really needs this kind of support given their recent activities
GAF is full of video game Robin Hoods or something.
I would imagine if most people here had a business and people were going around stealing their shit and putting it out as their own, they wouldn't be so thrilled with it
You can only call it opportunistic in hindsight of Mania's release and mod support of the Genesis hub on Steam, simply because it fits nicely into their current modus operandi of regaining goodwill by leaning on actual classic Sonic gameplay. But this wasn't true for the majority of that sector of the fandom's lifespan. Again, I'm talking something like ten, eleven, twelve years of blatant copyright-infringing Sonic fangame content and hacks using official assets from official 2D and 3D releases. Sega just didn't give that much of a damn, and it hasn't resulted in brand confusion (because most people who would buy a licensed Sonic game don't actually play them) or any significant risk of them losing the trademarks to the franchise. Indeed, the only reason we're even getting Mania is because of this community being around long enough to foster these displays of talent without being gutted to hell by overzealous copyright claims.
If I had something that was good enough to make me money hand over fist, I would have the foresight to do the toby fox thing and put my stamp of approval on my fan community so long as they weren't making extended profit off of my work, because I know there isn't perfect market overlap between fans subsisting on fan content and people who would still buy the licensed product because it's official and canon and hyped up. It's like going after Let's Plays.
If I had something that was good enough to make me money hand over fist, I would have the foresight to do the toby fox thing and put my stamp of approval on my fan community so long as they weren't making extended profit off of my work, because I know there isn't perfect market overlap between fans subsisting on fan content and people who would still buy the licensed product because it's official and canon and hyped up. It's like going after Let's Plays.
These companies aren't monoliths - the Streets of Rage nonsense happened under different management and a current employee has tweeted that that sort of thing doesn't happen anymore.
Yet countless businesses dont partake on this kind of douchy ass behaviour. In fact, they know its good for business, not the opposite.
I've read some Metroid fans try and legitimize how and why the guy should not only able to put AM2R back up, but charge for it as well, saying that what Nintendo is doing (protecting their IP) is behind the times and will be their downfall .
You can't make this stuff up.
-Mutsukki-
Member
I'm aware of that, like I'm aware that these fan games have been up forever until they were taken down right now. Again, not saying that's a good thing, just not buying the whole "Sega is a good model" case, they're both big bussiness, they will do what they have to do
A business can only be defined and characterized by its actions and statements on record. In the case of how companies respond to fan games, Sega is a better role model than Nintendo is because they encourage fan creativity, and anyone in this thread remotely interested in Mania owes that interest to Sega's cooperation with the Sonic fan community.
And it doesn't actually matter why they ever allowed it to happen, if it was some long term financial play (doubt it; would've been impossible to predict for anyone) or an actual act of kindness and enthusiasm. If we're going to reduce this down into purely capitalistic and competitive terms, then the existing demographic that is the fan game producer is better served showing their love for Sonic than for Pokemon and Metroid, thus Sega is a better company for their needs.
GamingOblivion
Banned
Since the dev of AM2R is getting DMCA'd directly I wonder if the other games like Mother 4 or Pokemon Insurgence is next.
Fuckin' Nintendo.
Fuckin' Nintendo.
Honestly if you're stealing from another company you should be prepared for this... free or not. These people should take the time and effort to put into their own original games even ifs heavily inspired by existing franchises. I don't fault Nintendo here at all, nor do I have any sympathy for the creators hit with these claims
Defiantly lines up, trouble is they have vastly miscalculated how much things have changed from the 90's, at least in the US. We're in the era of things like abridging and most younger people view taking existing properties and even assets and suing them as they see fit as a right. Being a company that doesn't go along with that paints you as at best an out of touch stick-in-the-mud, at worst actively hating your fans.
Disney gets away without too much criticism because, well, Disney, and they've been like this for a long time so everyone's use to it. Nintendo want through a period of being super hands off on things like fan-games which makes turning the other way more painful and upsetting for many then if they never allowed them in the first place.
It's be interesting to see how many of the people upset about this were also people who said they preferred how Yamauchi ran things to Iwata; because this? This is a very Yamauchi move.
BlazeHedgehog
Member
The rumor I was sent to investigate at the time was that Sega was looking in to either officially publishing Streets of Rage Remake (and this was right around the time they picked up Christian Whitehead's Sonic CD remake, so it made sense) or they were looking in to doing something like that on their own.
The creator of Streets of Rage Remake, Bomberlink, is incredibly difficult to get a hold of, but people close to him have told me Sega never contacted him about officiating Streets of Rage Remake as a for-pay product (or if they did, he never told anyone).
Similarly, when Sega was issuing takedown notices over the Shining Force series, that was a whole misunderstanding where I guess a group of 2ch trolls were harassing the producer on social media or something and because he didn't speak english very well he ended up lumping a bunch of North American Sega fans in thinking they were part of the attacks he was suffering.
It's all a matter of scope. I'm sure that if any one of these fan game developers owned their own web server and could actually fight back against knee-jerk takedown notices that Nintendo wouldn't actually do anything because a lawsuit over something like this would cost them way more in legal fees than they could ever hope to win back.
When you're a smaller indie developer, if you have fangames coming out for your products, that's a wholly different scenario to the point where maybe fangame creators to an indie dev are future hires, you know?
But to Nintendo, as big as they are, it's like taking blow torches to get rid of individual fleas.