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[AAK]

When it comes to combo beauty, THIS is IMO the greatest combo video in the history of the series:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I6WatGA9Bk

The creativity and style here is beyond anything I've seen in any other fighter. Of coarse all of them are under ideal conditions and character specific so they're not practical at all... but damn is it beautiful.

I'll miss you Tag

 

[Deps]

give me a game with dumb looking combos, where its all about good reads, movement, short but effective gameplay all day

tekken after T6, its game is all about who can juggle first and who can do the biggest combo

That's only true if both players are blocking with their face and can't move.

 

[Jaeger]

When it comes to combo beauty, THIS is IMO the greatest combo video in the history of the series:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I6WatGA9Bk

Soo good.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Implying getting a juggle in T6 was easy. Launchers weren't exactly the safest moves, you know.

When you face someone that can juggle you at will with Bruce... yeah...

 

[ZenTzen]

Implying getting a juggle in T6 was easy. Launchers weren't exactly the safest moves, you know.

That's only true if both players are blocking with their face and can't move.

Yes juggles arent safe, doesnt change the fact that its the kind of game recent Tekkens are promoting and its what most players look for and what most people see in matches

 

[Dereck]

its the kind of game recent Tekkens are promoting and its what most players look for and what most people see in matches

Says who?

 

[Stone Ocean]

Yes juggles arent safe, doesnt change the fact that its the kind of game recent Tekkens are promoting and its what most players look for and what most people see in matches

If we're going by what people "look for" and "see" instead of what the game is and how it is played by people that know what they're doing, then Tekken is a game where people pick Capos/Lili, mash b+whatever and win.

 

[ZenTzen]

Says who?

If we're going by what people "look for" and "see" instead of what the game is and how it is played by people that know what they're doing, then Tekken is a game where people pick Capos/Lili, mash b+whatever and win.

i do admit i'm generalizing a bit, but a good deal of the typical tekken match these days is going into launcher and doing ridiculous long combos, and theres a good number of characters with very safe moves that lead into those combos, that gets extremely boring fast for a good number of casual player

Also, dont get me wrong, i do enjoy a good deal of Tekken, but, bound only came to needlessly complicate the game

 

[AAK]

Another thing I'm really gonna miss are the hype tag throws in the game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44w1AYPROk0

EDIT:

i do admit i'm generalizing a bit, but a good deal of the typical tekken match these days is going into launcher and doing ridiculous long combos, and theres a good number of characters with very safe moves that lead into those combos, that gets extremely boring fast for a good number of casual player

Also, dont get me wrong, i do enjoy a good deal of Tekken, but, bound only came to needlessly complicate the game

First things first, launchers are universally very unsafe. Even the great electric wind godfist (which isn't just safe on block, but advantage) if read correctly can be duck and punished heavily. the term "safe" in a 3D fighter isn't limited to its properties on block. There are so many options like sidestepping, backdash cancelling, crouching, countering, among others that can make a "safe" move punishable. Launchers are in the game for a reason to reward players of a good read. Hence someone who's needlessly throwing launchers the whole match instead of doing them based on the character's playstyle will lose.

Second about it getting boring, you can look at in the flip side where having small repetitive juggles like in T5 can get boring for the person doing the combo's. The extra options for the player during juggles makes the game a lot more fun to perform combo's along with playing.

And lastly about bound, Bound was the one feature the balanced Tekken beyond what we've seen before. Every character became viable for damage after it was introduced.

The best argument against juggles in Tekken is how CRUSH moves juggle people. That is where I can admit that Tekken is a bit ridiculous in that regard. A great solution was posted by Slips in a guest article on ATP's site:

http://www.avoidingthepuddle.com/ne...d-the-bad-and-the-ugly-an-article-by-sli.html

1) Hop kicks should not launch. Most characters that have a hop kick have a d/f+2 that is just as fast and yields the same damage, so the loss of being able to punish without them is easily just replaced with d/f+2’s.

2) Another solution is to allow hop kicks to still launch but not crush moves. Make characters have universal crush moves more like Asuka’s 3+4, Eddy’s u+4, Jack’s u/f+1, Bruce’s u/f+3, Dragunov’s u/f+3, ect. These moves do damage and still serve the same purpose of getting out of bad situations but are not followed by outrageous combos to compound the reward of desperation.

3) Hop kicks only launch on counter-hit. Most of the time when at frame disadvantage a low poke is ‘crushed’ but not getting counter-hit, it is usually upon its whiff that it gets hit. This may be just enough to make things tolerable.

I would personally just keep hopkicks the way they are, but if they crush something, then they shouldn't launch.

 

[Dandy J]

RE: combos, I would like to see a Tekken with no juggles and only stuff like stun > followup. Things like Feng palm > shoulder, Jack ff+1 > followup, or tekrev Kaz u/f+3 into ff+3. These combos are satisfying to land, simple enough for everyone to do, and don't take away one player's control for any extended period of time. As fun as 100 damage bnbs with bound and wall carry are, they still take away from the game IMO. You can say launchers are unsafe all you want, but it doesn't make it not dumb when someone lands a hopkick and takes someone across the stage into 60%+ damage plus wall situation. Just like you can say that the rage/tag crash is an interesting balance of resources (it is), but it doesn't make it not dumb when someone gets ch by some string and it does all the mustard.

Honestly the one thing I've disliked about juggles the most since t5 was the situation. It blatantly undermines stage position. Getting someone to the wall isn't something you should earn by landing a single launcher from virtually anywhere on a stage. Some are big enough that this doesn't happen, but it certainly happens on all easily from the starting position On top of that, there's nothing that stage size can do to fix the change in position you get from normal play when compared to juggles.

 

[Two Words]

Not good for matchups, TTT2 had a ridiculously large roster to keep track of already and there are a hundred moves per character. Back to a more compact moveset.

Tekken is less about predicting, and more about reacting.

 

[Dereck]

What makes long juggles in Tekken 3 or Tekken 4 OK then? It's the same thing.

Even Tekken 2 had long juggles. This is Tekken.

 

[Two Words]

What makes long juggles in Tekken 3 or Tekken 4 OK then? It's the same thing.

Even Tekken 2 had long juggles. This is Tekken.

That is wrong. Older Tekken games had shorter juggles, but they were still doing pretty much the same amount of damage. The difference now is that Tekken now has walls and people use juggles to wall carry to do even more damage than ever before and end up with better position against the wall.

 

[Dereck]

That is wrong. Older Tekken games had shorter juggles, but they were still doing pretty much the same amount of damage. The difference now is that Tekken now has walls and people use juggles to wall carry to do even more damage than ever before and end up with better position against the wall.

It sounds like the problem lies with walls instead of with actual combos.

 

[ZenTzen]

Another thing I'm really gonna miss are the hype tag throws in the game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44w1AYPROk0

EDIT:



First things first, launchers are universally very unsafe. Even the great electric wind godfist (which isn't just safe on block, but advantage) if read correctly can be duck and punished heavily. the term "safe" in a 3D fighter isn't limited to its properties on block. There are so many options like sidestepping, backdash cancelling, crouching, countering, among others that can make a "safe" move punishable. Launchers are in the game for a reason to reward players of a good read. Hence someone who's needlessly throwing launchers the whole match instead of doing them based on the character's playstyle will lose.

Second about it getting boring, you can look at in the flip side where having small repetitive juggles like in T5 can get boring for the person doing the combo's. The extra options for the player during juggles makes the game a lot more fun to perform combo's along with playing.

And lastly about bound, Bound was the one feature the balanced Tekken beyond what we've seen before. Every character became viable for damage after it was introduced.

The best argument against juggles in Tekken is how CRUSH moves juggle people. That is where I can admit that Tekken is a bit ridiculous in that regard. A great solution was posted by Slips in a guest article on ATP's site:

http://www.avoidingthepuddle.com/ne...d-the-bad-and-the-ugly-an-article-by-sli.html



I would personally just keep hopkicks the way they are, but if they crush something, then they shouldn't launch.

i do agree that crush moves juggling people is a stupid, but i still think bound only complicated the game, yes other characters became more balanced, but in return, the game became boring, instead they should go with the more typical rebalancing of moves and properties, but thats just me

Also, heres the thing, you're going into this whole problem with a pro gamer mentality, sure all those things may be appealing to a tekken fan that likes to go deep into the game, but all of that is irrelevant to the average player, people go seeing that they need to learn these things and it becomes an imediate turn off, especially on a series that was pretty much pick up and play but still with a lot of depth

namco should look for a middle ground in this situation, how they can go about it, i really dont know

 

[Dereck]

You don't need bound to win, you don't even need juggles to win.

You don't even need juggles to enjoy playing Tekken.

You could play Tekken with your friends, and even if you and your friends didn't know juggles or how to bound, it could still be fun. It's not required that you learn it, however if you learn it, it can make the game even more fun.

From my point of view, if I get juggled, I didn't lose the match. Bound combos/juggling only seems to get sensationalized by more casual players sometimes. It's not the end of the world. Actually, to the people who think that all Tekken is about is juggling, go watch some tournaments, actually, you can catch Evo 2014 right here.

I'm not saying bound isn't a big component to the matches, but what I'm saying that it's still the Tekken that people know.

Go watch people play Tekken Revolution, there are still wall carries, and the juggles are still pretty lengthy. If they take away long juggles, or wall carries, bound, or all of those things, it would be like playing Tekken 1. To me it would probably be substantially boring without the options present.

 

[Two Words]

It sounds like the problem lies with walls instead of with actual combos.

The length of the combos can get kind of tedious. If they want to keep the Bound system, I'd rather they turn it into a sort of "meter" like Street Fighter. That way, you can only do a Bound attack when your meter is filled to a certain point.

 

[Deps]

RE: combos, I would like to see a Tekken with no juggles and only stuff like stun > followup. Things like Feng palm > shoulder, Jack ff+1 > followup, or tekrev Kaz u/f+3 into ff+3. These combos are satisfying to land, simple enough for everyone to do, and don't take away one player's control for any extended period of time. As fun as 100 damage bnbs with bound and wall carry are, they still take away from the game IMO. You can say launchers are unsafe all you want, but it doesn't make it not dumb when someone lands a hopkick and takes someone across the stage into 60%+ damage plus wall situation. Just like you can say that the rage/tag crash is an interesting balance of resources (it is), but it doesn't make it not dumb when someone gets ch by some string and it does all the mustard.

Honestly the one thing I've disliked about juggles the most since t5 was the situation. It blatantly undermines stage position. Getting someone to the wall isn't something you should earn by landing a single launcher from virtually anywhere on a stage. Some are big enough that this doesn't happen, but it certainly happens on all easily from the starting position On top of that, there's nothing that stage size can do to fix the change in position you get from normal play when compared to juggles.

That + DR movement would be my dream Tekken game. At the same time, I also think juggles are interesting in their own way. TTT2 juggles require a lot of on the fly adjustment, which imo is an interesting skill. Even top level players constantly drop combos because of how many factors you need to consider, but as Mr.Naps and most Korean players show, you can definitely save each combo.

 

[AAK]

i do agree that crush moves juggling people is a stupid, but i still think bound only complicated the game, yes other characters became more balanced, but in return, the game became boring, instead they should go with the more typical rebalancing of moves and properties, but thats just me

That's really just your opinion. Making juggles have more options is much more enjoyable for a lot of people.

Also, heres the thing, you're going into this whole problem with a pro gamer mentality, sure all those things may be appealing to a tekken fan that likes to go deep into the game, but all of that is irrelevant to the average player, people go seeing that they need to learn these things and it becomes an imediate turn off, especially on a series that was pretty much pick up and play but still with a lot of depth

namco should look for a middle ground in this situation, how they can go about it, i really dont know

Why not accessibility and depth? Watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVL4st0blGU

The problem with Tekken is more about complexity which is the "turn off". Depth like the video says, is the amount of meaningful choices for the player. Mechanics like bound help give the player a conscious decision on how to use their opportunities for the upperhand. Ways Tekken can get rid of complexity is definitely the number characters and the many many different types of moves. However, with every iteration the moves in Tekken are beginning to follow a certain type of pattern and logic that you can use to play with rather than memorizing so it's improving in that facet. Those are ways to make it more accessible, not removing aspects which give the player a choice on how to play. In the end, making Tekken less bloated is the answer.

You don't need to be a tournament player to enjoy this aspect of fighting games.

 

[Sayah]

People that hate bound are usually the people that don't know how to use bound. But I could be generalizing or wrong.

I can't imagine playing Tekken without bound. One of the best things to have happened to the series.

The reason why some people hate it is because they do not know the proper get up options. They keep rolling back and fall for multiple bounds. Or keep mashing at the wall and get wall splatted over and over. Or don't tech out of combo resets. I have consistently even reset combos on high ranked players over and over and over.......and they still don't understand why the combo is so long.

What Tekken 7 needs is to explain these mechanics in extreme depth to newcomers. Getting rid of progressive mechanics and going backwards is not the answer.

 

[Lambda Pie]

i'm pro-bound. keep it in.

 

[CamHostage]

Yeah who edited the thread title? It's probably likely but nobody confirmed it's coming to PS4/XB1

That statement is derived from what Harada said according to IGN about it being on next gen consoles iirc. UE4 also supports PS4 and XB1 officially.

But that doesn't mean either platform is officially announced. UE4 also supports iPhone and Android and SteamBox, should the thread list every platform UE4 supports?

WTF GAF, we slam pro news sites for being loose with facts and clickbaity, then the site goes two days without fixing the facts on a major game? This forum is usually really good at group-combing the facts and correcting itself, let's rethink this one please?

Probably doesnt need to be stated but the titles say it's coming to arcades

As does the official site. And in fact, Arcade is the ONLY platform officially announced.

Yes, it probably will eventually be on other platforms, but we don't know which (either platform might seek this as an exclusive.) Plus, the fact that it's launching as an arcade game is important to know since it means that we should probably get set for a wait even longer than assumptions might guess if it is planned to launch to coin-op first before coming home.

(Side-note: the global press release said nothing about arcade plans, which was frustrating as arcade distribution is a rarity and the Japanese news was not shy about the arcade release, but both versions of Tekken 6 as well as TTT2 were put out as machines globally so unless the new board is cost-prohibitive to put out outside of Japan, I would hope T7 will also see global arcade distribution.)

 

[Master Thespian]

I've said it over and over. It's not that people really hate bound or juggles or juggle damage. People hate the amount of time they spend being juggled (and wall carry to a lesser extent). I think more people would be just fine with juggles that included bound and still did roughly 30% damage if on average they were over in 2 or 3 seconds instead of 5 or 6.

There a several ways they could do it (while increasing juggle damage to compensate) :

• Reduce the amount of pop-up airborne hits cause.
• Increase gravity.
• Only allow bound followups to work up to a certain amount of damage or hits.

 

[Manbig]

give me a game with dumb looking combos, where its all about good reads, movement, short but effective gameplay all day

tekken after T6, its game is all about who can juggle first and who can do the biggest combo

No, Tekken as a franchise has just about always been about high damage juggles. Just because there were less hits in the older Tekken games doesn't mean the damage wasn't still half life + for most juggles.

Case in point.

Again.

And just in case you think it's only 5.0.

 

[Neff]

Yes juggles arent safe, doesnt change the fact that its the kind of game recent Tekkens are promoting and its what most players look for and what most people see in matches

If you try and combo or juggle without a massive opening, you're asking for trouble. Despite the extreme effectiveness of juggles, it's still a game of sustained, frequent give and take when played between two competent players.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Imagine Tekken 7 and MKX coming out on the same day... would basically be the International Fighting Games day lol.

 

[Night_Knight]

I want frame data!

 

[Manbig]

I want frame data!

This this this this this this this!

Spoiler

Seriously... this!

On another note, Here's a Tekken 6 BR video where you can compare the damage to ones I linked earlier. Outside of a few double bound due to floor break, which can only happen once per match, the damage is pretty much the same.

 

[AZUMIKE]

After watching higher level Tekken 6 matches, I don't think bound is problem. As long as its managed appropriately in Tekken 7, why not?

 

[IvorB]

This news isn't as earth-shattering as it once would have been but cool I guess. Who the hell is Kazumi though? I feel so out of the loop.

Hopefully a Virtua Fighter 6 announcement will follow then I can get hyped.

 

[Doomshine]

Maybe they could increase the gravity after a bound to decrease the wall carry distance and shorten the post bound combos.

I don't think they should remove bound itself. Tt helps a lot of characters and streamlines the combo system, making it both easier and visually appealing. The dash jab combos of old look ugly as hell.

Who the hell is Kazumi though?

Kazuya's mother.

 

[Doomshine]

oops. double post.

 

[IvorB]

I've said it over and over. It's not that people really hate bound or juggles or juggle damage. People hate the amount of time they spend being juggled (and wall carry to a lesser extent). I think more people would be just fine with juggles that included bound and still did roughly 30% damage if on average they were over in 2 or 3 seconds instead of 5 or 6.

There a several ways they could do it (while increasing juggle damage to compensate) :

• Reduce the amount of pop-up airborne hits cause.
• Increase gravity.
• Only allow bound followups to work up to a certain amount of damage or hits.

Tekken has always had juggles. Kazuya could do like 90 damage with juggles in Tekken 2. But then they started to tone it down which was great. Then they introduced bound which just killed everything.

I've never had my fandom killed by one game like Tekken 6 did (except maybe FF XII).

 

[alstein]

Yes juggles arent safe, doesnt change the fact that its the kind of game recent Tekkens are promoting and its what most players look for and what most people see in matches

Would you rather get hit for half by launchers, giant swung for half life, or CH deathfist for half-life.

I'd like to see more deathfists replace combos. Just whacking someone with a huge move is more fun than juggling all day. Making grabs get broken less would also help. Give some ways to do massive damage without combos.

 

[Manbig]

Tekken has always had juggles. Kazuya could do like 90 damage with juggles in Tekken 2. But then they started to tone it down which was great. Then they introduced bound which just killed everything.

I've never had my fandom killed by one game like Tekken 6 did (except maybe FF XII).

The only times it got toned down were a little bit in Tekken 3 and a lot in Tekken 4. As the videos that I shared in my earlier posts show, Tekken 6's juggle damage is on par with the earlier stuff.

 

[Two Words]

People that hate bound are usually the people that don't know how to use bound. But I could be generalizing or wrong.

I can't imagine playing Tekken without bound. One of the best things to have happened to the series.

The reason why some people hate it is because they do not know the proper get up options. They keep rolling back and fall for multiple bounds. Or keep mashing at the wall and get wall splatted over and over. Or don't tech out of combo resets. I have consistently even reset combos on high ranked players over and over and over.......and they still don't understand why the combo is so long.

What Tekken 7 needs is to explain these mechanics in extreme depth to newcomers. Getting rid of progressive mechanics and going backwards is not the answer.

I know how to use the Bound system. I just don't like how much it powers people to wall carry and turn the game into a race to the wall.

 

[Amaya]

give me a game with dumb looking combos, where its all about good reads, movement, short but effective gameplay all day

tekken after T6, its game is all about who can juggle first and who can do the biggest combo

Sounds like you're talking about marvel vs capcom 3.

 

[Manbig]

I know how to use the Bound system. I just don't like how much it powers people to wall carry and turn the game into a race to the wall.

The stages were made much wider in Tekken 6 because of bound. In Tekken 5 and Tekken DR, the characters that you didn't want taking you to the wall were actually freaking amazing at doing it with juggles. Characters like Julia, Bryan, Lee, Hwo, etc... had zero issue with wall carry in their juggle and then they would proceed to push your shit in with 50/50s and wall tech traps.

Once again, this is just another thing that's always been in the game that people just zero in on Tekken 6 for "introducting."

You know what Tekken 6/BR did introduce? A shitload of mid ducking launchers, backswing style moves, even more screwed up hurt boxes, and a easymode low parry system that buffed the hell out of fuzzy guard.

 

[TheRealTalker]

kick juggling is the best juggling

harder but so satisfying

 

[BadWolf]

Kazuya's mother.

Heh, seems they like giving mothers and sons similar names.

Kazumi > Kazuya
Jun > Jin

 

[Amaya]

So unreal4 is only compatible with ps4 and xbone? I really want a ps4 version.

 

[IvorB]

The only times it got toned down were a little bit in Tekken 3 and a lot in Tekken 4. As the videos that I shared in my earlier posts show, Tekken 6's juggle damage is on part with the earlier stuff.

Yeah Tekken 2 was crazy. Kazuya Gut Punch into Wind Godfist and then juggle away. They were going the right direction to tone it down. But I thought there was so much wrong with Tekken 6 that the bounds was just another factor on top.

 

[IvorB]

Kazuya's mother.

I wouldn't mind checking her out in action. I wonder what style she will employ. They'd better not make her some young waifu character.

 

[CamHostage]

So unreal4 is only compatible with ps4 and xbone? I really want a ps4 version.

And Amazon Fire TV.

So the correct platforms that should be listed in the topic title (since, as stated earlier, no platforms have been announced except arcade, and the tread is just guessing PS4 and Xbone) are as follows: Tekken 7 on Arcade, PS4, Xbox One, iPhone/iPad, Android (and Android TV,) Tegra K1-equipped devices, PC/SteamBox, and Amazon Fire TV.

Did I miss any others? Oh, also Wii U, but only if someone wants to defy the "stupid gaffe" and make it for it.

 

[Doomshine]

I think there's a decent chance of a PC version this time around.

 

[ElTopo]

I'm shocked that they didn't announce a PC version.

 

[Neff]

There are many ways to rob a player of big health besides combos/juggles/multigrabs. A juicy counter is deadly. Clean hit more so. Bullying an indecisive grounded player pretty much seals their fate. Back throws will decimate life bars. Static and running unblockables are things you can never take lightly. These are all situations that can and will arise in an evenly-matched game.

 

[Pachimari]

I'm shocked that they didn't announce a PC version.

They didn't announce any platforms outside Arcade.

 

[KOHIPEET]

Please god, let them make it like this

With similar music!!

 

[Amaya]

I'm shocked that they didn't announce a PC version.

I'm sure it will be eventually. It's about time we had a tekken for PC.