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[Poltergust]

Because the media, which is left based, pushed it as such, and started throwing it in the spotlight in news and TV. This is something I don't understand why advocates won't admit. They brought it to be an issue. Not saying that the right wings didn't help just that you know, there are two sides to a coin.

By doing this, in combination of Obama announcing guidlines to follow, which not following could result in cutting federal funding, which is a threat, why is it surprising these states are passing bathroom bills, and also suing?

This was done poorly, if it was done a different way then maybe this wouldn't be happening. But let's not act like Obama helped the situation or the media.

?

The only ones making it an issue are conservatives. Trans people have been using the bathrooms according to their gender since forever, and it is conservative legislatures that are trying to pass laws against that.

Are you saying we should just ignore news coverage of those laws?

 

[Wallach]

Because the media, which is left based, pushed it as such, and started throwing it in the spotlight in news and TV. This is something I don't understand why advocates won't admit. They brought it to be an issue. Not saying that the right wings didn't help just that you know, there are two sides to a coin.

By doing this, in combination of Obama announcing guidlines to follow, which not following could result in cutting federal funding, which is a threat, why is it surprising these states are passing bathroom bills, and also suing?

This was done poorly, if it was done a different way then maybe this wouldn't be happening. But let's not act like Obama helped the situation or the media.

No, the state courts are what made this an issue. There was no media attention until said states started trying to harm their citizens with this made up problem for their phony laws to "address".

 

[Team Alucard]

I don't know much about the issues of trans people, but isn't this a problem for trans people who can't afford medicine or reassignment surgery. People like that would have a much harder time going into the bathroom they identify with, wouldn't they?

The lack of proper medical care is a far bigger issue than the bathroom nonsense. Vast majority of insurance policies have a blanket-exclusion on anything trans-related.

My provider would not even cover psychotherapy. I had to get my therapist to lie and say that I was seeing her for anxiety issues when billing the insurance.

So yes, its an issue. The lucky few who pass as cis will be unaffected by this, but the greater majority will either have to deal with potential legal consequences for using one bathroom, harassment for using the other, or do what I do and simply stay in the closet.

 

[GaimeGuy]

I still don't get how in the last year this whole bathroom issue became a thing. It makes no sense, as trans-gendered people go unnoticed in the restroom of their choice; yet a m2f or f2m having to use the restroom of their birthed gender would essentially cause what the alt. right wants to stop.

The only reason I can see that so many states started passing bathroom laws is because they can't complain against gay marriage anymore, so they have to complain and be bigots about something. Ignorance at it's best.

That being said, I think the Obama administration will have a tough time fighting this.

They lost/are losing the battle against gay rights. Bisexual people are just confused/are straight half of the time (in the eyes of the right). That leaves Trans men and women as the boogeyman for conservatives to fight against.

 

[partyphone]

as for the rule in general, it's idiotic, a person who has not has had the sex change operation, is TECHNICALLY the sex they were born with, even after said operation, genetically they are the sex they were borth with, just the "equipment" is different now.

this is technically not true and really gets to the heart of the issue. bigots misusing science to mask their bigotry.

 

[Ekai]

I don't know much about the issues of trans people, but isn't this a problem for trans people who can't afford medicine or reassignment surgery. People like that would have a much harder time going into the bathroom they identify with, wouldn't they?

Not every trans individual can afford SRS or BA or FFS surgery or even want it. HRT medication however is extremely inexpensive. That said the path to HRT is sometimes gate-kept by people who require a therapist letter. Which to some trans people it's considered a good step and to others not. It depends on I suppose your state of mind and what kind of therapist you would end up with. Hopefully one who is trans-friendly, of course. And outside of that route there's also informed consent where you just sign a form saying you understand the effects of the medication and you're more or less good to go after a blood-test.

Further still not every trans-individual will pass as cis. It's a YMMV thing. But even those who don't pass have most likely been using the restroom in accordance with their identity reagrdless.

Because the media, which is left based, pushed it as such, and started throwing it in the spotlight in news and TV. This is something I don't understand why advocates won't admit. They brought it to be an issue. Not saying that the right wings didn't help just that you know, there are two sides to a coin.

By doing this, in combination of Obama announcing guidlines to follow, which not following could result in cutting federal funding, which is a threat, why is it surprising these states are passing bathroom bills, and also suing?

This was done poorly, if it was done a different way then maybe this wouldn't be happening. But let's not act like Obama helped the situation or the media.

The only people pushing back against it are the right-wing. The point is they made it an issue by attacking us in the first place. We've always existed. The "left-wing media" and other "left-wing areas of society" are merely recognizing our humanity. Which is much appreciated and encouraging. Especially so for young trans individuals who are dealing with a torrent of bs already from people at home. The right-wing has simply magnified it. Education on these matters is quite required, especially for those who argue against the scientific fact that we are natural.

It's not surprising they're retaliating. However they are doing so on bigoted grounds. To argue that they aren't is a bit odd to me. They are fighting against an already marginalized group of people and fear-mongering based on complete lies to justify it. The fact you take issue with my statement on how people have probably at least been in the bathroom with a trans-individual once but not with the right-wing saying we're all sexual predators is alarming to me.

 

[Freddy Barry]

Yeah fucking right. Republicans have repeatedly proven themselves be completely disgusting human beings toward anyone that's not a straight, white male. No matter how this was approached, they'd fight it tooth and nail.

I'm sorry, know you can't deny that the media was instrumental in trying to push the issue to far and made it a bigger deal then it is, you can't deny that Obama THREATENED states funding, and tried to mandate a guideline, how can one even think that this was NOT done wrong?

The anti-republican rhetoric in this forum in off-topic goes a bit far sometimes. Let's be blunt here, you don't like republicans. Ok, but blaming them for everything and basically deflecting from the fact that this was done the wrong way does nothing to help the situation.

What I said, along with what other users posted above, is likely why Obama will lose the lawsuit, and why this issue, which shouldn't even be that big of a deal, will become an even BIGGER DEAL after he loses imo.

 

[PSqueak]

as for the rule in general, it's idiotic, a person who has not has had the sex change operation, is TECHNICALLY the sex they were born with, even after said operation, genetically they are the sex they were born with, just the "equipment" is different now.

Gender is not the same as [biological] Sex.

Gender being a Social Construct and Sex pertaining Biology.
In your examples cataloging gender accordingly to biological Sex, the person post OP (or even pre OP) would be LEGALLY defined as the gender they identify as regardless of what YOU think about their biological sex.

 

[Freddy Barry]

?

The only ones making it an issue are conservatives. Trans people have been using the bathrooms according to their gender since forever, and it is conservative legislatures that are trying to pass laws against that.

Are you saying we should just ignore news coverage of those laws?

No, the reason why the transgender issue was brought up to become a bigger issue than it is was because of the media, resulting in Obama threatening states who don't follow guidelines, RESULTING in the states suing and passing these laws.

It wasn't done well. Obama should have used another strategy, as the media.

 

[Llyrwenne]

Because the media, which is left based, pushed it as such, and started throwing it in the spotlight in news and TV. This is something I don't understand why advocates won't admit. They brought it to be an issue. Not saying that the right wings didn't help just that you know, there are two sides to a coin.

By doing this, in combination of Obama announcing guidlines to follow, which not following could result in cutting federal funding, which is a threat, why is it surprising these states are passing bathroom bills, and also suing?

This was done poorly, if it was done a different way then maybe this wouldn't be happening. But let's not act like Obama helped the situation or the media.

The left mainstream media™ & Both sides™? There is no reason from what I can see not to follow the guidelines that is not rooted in bigotry or ignorance. That is the problem here, not 'the left media' reporting on a news story ( bigots trying to discriminate people they don't understand after losing the gay marriage battle ) or Obama pushing for guidelines ( and trying to enforce them by cutting funding from places that refuse to follow them, because there is no real reason not to follow them ).

 

[Team Alucard]

No, the state courts are what made this an issue. There was no media attention until said states started trying to harm their citizens with this made up problem for their phony laws to "address".

HB2 is what started the whole discussion, and HB2 was a retaliatory law passed in response to a Charlotte Ordinance that protected LGBT rights, of which bathroom rights were a part.

 

[Poltergust]

I'm sorry, know you can't deny that the media was instrumental in trying to push the issue to far and made it a bigger deal then it is, you can't deny that Obama THREATENED states funding, and tried to mandate a guideline, how can one even think that this was NOT done wrong?

The anti-republican rhetoric in this forum in off-topic goes a bit far sometimes. Let's be blunt here, you don't like republicans. Ok, but blaming them for everything and basically deflecting from the fact that this was done the wrong way does nothing to help the situation.

What I said, along with what other users posted above, is likely why Obama will lose the lawsuit, and why this issue, which shouldn't even be that big of a deal, will become an even BIGGER DEAL after he loses imo.

So what would have been your solution to protecting trans rights? Should nothing be done about those conservative legislatures banning trans from using the bathroom of their identified gender?

 

[Ahasverus]

I'm sorry, know you can't deny that the media was instrumental in trying to push the issue to far and made it a bigger deal then it is, you can't deny that Obama THREATENED states funding, and tried to mandate a guideline, how can one even think that this was NOT done wrong?

Because the government should not tolerate human rights violation of its citizens. I thought Republicans were all about keeping the federal government away anyways? The states can do it by their bootstraps!

The anti-republican rhetoric in this forum in off-topic goes a bit far sometimes. Let's be blunt here, you don't like republicans. .[

More like the anti-notmale/white/crhstian republican rhetoric goes far, every time.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

Because the media, which is left based, pushed it as such, and started throwing it in the spotlight in news and TV. This is something I don't understand why advocates won't admit. They brought it to be an issue. Not saying that the right wings didn't help just that you know, there are two sides to a coin.

By doing this, in combination of Obama announcing guidlines to follow, which not following could result in cutting federal funding, which is a threat, why is it surprising these states are passing bathroom bills, and also suing?

This was done poorly, if it was done a different way then maybe this wouldn't be happening. But let's not act like Obama helped the situation or the media.

The media isn't left based.

Reality is left based.

 

[Link]

I'm sorry, know you can't deny that the media was instrumental in trying to push the issue to far and made it a bigger deal then it is, you can't deny that Obama THREATENED states funding, and tried to mandate a guideline, how can one even think that this was NOT done wrong?

The anti-republican rhetoric in this forum in off-topic goes a bit far sometimes. Let's be blunt here, you don't like republicans. Ok, but blaming them for everything and basically deflecting from the fact that this was done the wrong way does nothing to help the situation.

What I said, along with what other users posted above, is likely why Obama will lose the lawsuit, and why this issue, which shouldn't even be that big of a deal, will become an even BIGGER DEAL after he loses imo.

No, I don't like Republicans. They like to pretend they vote the way they do because of "fiscal conservatism" or "personal responsibility," but it's become exceedingly obvious that's all just bullshit now that Trump is their nominee and they're all falling in line to vote for him. Just like yourself.

 

[Poltergust]

No, the reason why the transgender issue was brought up to become a bigger issue than it is was because of the media, resulting in Obama threatening states who don't follow guidelines, RESULTING in the states suing and passing these laws.

It wasn't done well. Obama should have used another strategy, as the media.

Your timeline is messed up here. Conservatives were the ones to deal the first blow by passing anti-trans laws, not the media.

 

[Gigglepoo]

I wonder if this Federal Judge realized he's going to be a villain in a movie someday.

 

[Link]

Your timeline is messed up here. Conservatives were the ones to deal the first blow by passing anti-trans laws, not the media.

Republicans like to blame the big, bad media for making people aware of all the shitty things they do or say. Just look at cry-baby Trump.

 

[aeolist]

No, the reason why the transgender issue was brought up to become a bigger issue than it is was because of the media, resulting in Obama threatening states who don't follow guidelines, RESULTING in the states suing and passing these laws.

It wasn't done well. Obama should have used another strategy, as the media.

north carolina passed HB2 (which discriminates against transgender individuals among other bad things) on march 13 2016 in order to override a noncontroversial charlotte nc ordinance: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Public_Facilities_Privacy_&_Security_Act

http://www.ed.gov/news/press-releas...ools-ensure-civil-rights-transgender-students issued on may 13 2016

 

[Freddy Barry]

So what would have been your solution to protecting trans rights? Should nothing be done about those conservative legislatures banning trans from using the bathroom of their identified gender?

So you think that threatening to cut state funding is the solution?

 

[lightskintwin]

No, the reason why the transgender issue was brought up to become a bigger issue than it is was because of the media, resulting in Obama threatening states who don't follow guidelines, RESULTING in the states suing and passing these laws.

It wasn't done well. Obama should have used another strategy, as the media.

You have no idea what you're talking about. States started passing bathroom laws out of nowhere, creating a solution to a problem that didn't exist. Republicans specialty.

 

[Ahasverus]

So you think that threatening to cut state funding is the solution?

All the states need to avoid that is to keep things as they have been for 500 years, for once.

 

[titiklabingapat]

The silver lining on this is this puts it squarely in the presidential election. Reminds people who you'd rather appoint SC justices, the orange turd or Hillary Clinton.

 

[Poltergust]

So you think that threatening to cut state funding is the solution?

If it's used to protect civil rights. We've used far more extreme methods in the past.

And you didn't answer my question.

 

[perfectchaos007]

this is technically not true and really gets to the heart of the issue. bigots misusing science to mask their bigotry.

It's not always bigotry, sometimes its misunderstanding. I used to interchange sex/gender improperly too. You can change your gender, but sex chromosomes are not changeable. XX is female sex, XY is male sex, and XXY is trisomy. Just because you can't change the sex chromosomes doesn't mean you can't change you gender.

 

[Freddy Barry]

No, I don't like Republicans. They like to pretend they vote the way they do because of "fiscal conservatism" or "personal responsibility," but it's become exceedingly obvious that's all just bullshit now that Trump is their nominee and they're all falling in line to vote for him. Just like yourself.

I like how because I pointed out threatening states funding is wrong I'm all of a sudden a republican. I guess you're not capable of a civil argument?

 

[AntChum]

The anti-republican rhetoric in this forum in off-topic goes a bit far sometimes. Let's be blunt here, you don't like republicans. Ok, but blaming them for everything and basically deflecting from the fact that this was done the wrong way does nothing to help the situation.

No, Republican's aren't responsible for all of America's ills, but their bigoted ideals and penchant for pandering to bigoted individuals is something that should be called out every minute of every day. Republicans are shit heads, plain and simple.

 

[aeolist]

So you think that threatening to cut state funding is the solution?

yes

if states want federal money they should follow federal rules. there's nothing stopping them from telling the department of education to fuck off and fund everything themselves except the cold hard reality that there's no way they'd be able to budget for it.

 

[Casimir]

Well, once gay marriage became legalized, male white heterosexual Christians needed a new minority to discriminate against to make themselves feel better.

 

[LizardKing]

No, the reason why the transgender issue was brought up to become a bigger issue than it is was because of the media, resulting in Obama threatening states who don't follow guidelines, RESULTING in the states suing and passing these laws.

It wasn't done well. Obama should have used another strategy, as the media.

You have it backwards. These bills banning transgender people were drafted/proposed/considered/passed first (mostly as a reaction to liberal areas creating transgender bathrooms and passing laws to allow transgender people to use any bathroom even in schools which got media attention and pissed off/frightened conservatives), then Obama made the guidelines and threatened the states, then the states sued and did it anyway.

HB2 did not just pop up out of nowhere completely unprovoked, it was a response to liberal legislation passed in Charlotte.

The timeline is this

-Charlotte passes LGBT non-discrimination ordinance
-NC State Legislature passes HB2 to strike down Charlotte ordinance
-In response, the Obama administration issues bathroom guidelines, and threatens to block federal funding for schools that refuse to comply
-Federal judge issues injunction on the Obama Administration's order.

Edit: This.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

So you think that threatening to cut state funding is the solution?

Yes? It's not really that hard to not be a bigot. It's not like Obama is putting undo hardship on them.

 

[TheCochese]

You have no idea what you're talking about. States started passing bathroom laws out of nowhere, creating a solution to a problem that didn't exist. Republicans specialty.

It wasn't out of nowhere, they got their pet project of banning the gays from marrying overruled and needed to pick another bogeyman to prop up.

The timeline of this may not mesh with reality, but I like my version.

 

[Team Alucard]

You have no idea what you're talking about. States started passing bathroom laws out of nowhere, creating a solution to a problem that didn't exist. Republicans specialty.

Your timeline is messed up here. Conservatives were the ones to deal the first blow by passing anti-trans laws, not the media.

HB2 did not just pop up out of nowhere completely unprovoked, it was a response to liberal legislation passed in Charlotte.

The timeline is this

-Charlotte passes LGBT non-discrimination ordinance
-NC State Legislature passes HB2 to strike down Charlotte ordinance
-In response, the Obama administration issues bathroom guidelines, and threatens to block federal funding for schools that refuse to comply
-Federal judge issues injunction on the Obama Administration's order.

 

[aeolist]

I like how because I pointed out threatening states funding is wrong I'm all of a sudden a republican. I guess you're not capable of a civil argument?

do you think the federal government should have absolutely no say in how its money is spent on the state level?

 

[perfectchaos007]

No, Republican's aren't responsible for all of America's ills, but their bigoted ideals and penchant for pandering to bigoted individuals is something that should be called out every minute of every day. Republicans are shit heads, plain and simple.

Wow way to generalize. A lot of us republicans aren't bigots, despite how we're portrayed on heavily liberal leaning forums like this one.

 

[Ekai]

I wonder if this Federal Judge realized he's going to be a villain in a movie someday.

He wouldn't be played by Tom Hanks or Liam Neeson, that's for sure.

Gender is not the same as [biological] Sex.

Gender being a Social Construct and Sex pertaining Biology.
In your examples cataloging gender accordingly to biological Sex, the person post OP (or even pre OP) would be LEGALLY defined as the gender they identify as regardless of what YOU think about their biological sex.

These are important distinctions to be made, yea. Not to mention the professional view of transgender states.

north carolina passed HB2 (which discriminates against transgender individuals among other bad things) on march 13 2016 in order to override a noncontroversial charlotte nc ordinance: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Public_Facilities_Privacy_&_Security_Act

http://www.ed.gov/news/press-releas...ools-ensure-civil-rights-transgender-students issued on may 13 2016

History in action.

So you think that threatening to cut state funding is the solution?

It wouldn't be an issue in the first place if Republicans weren't fighting against the status-quo of us using restrooms. All these laws do is work to recognize us for our humanity. I don't really see the big deal here. Especially since the anti-trans laws are coming about from a complete lie about us being sexual predators.

 

[partyphone]

It's not always bigotry, sometimes its misunderstanding. I used to interchange sex/gender improperly too. You can change your gender, but sex chromosomes are not changeable. XX is female sex, XY is male sex, and XXY is trisomy. Just because you can't change the sex chromosomes doesn't mean you can't change you gender.

yeah but you're not passing anti-trans legislation.

 

[Freddy Barry]

States started passing bathroom laws out of nowhere,

Looking through google 2013, most of the laws I see are for transgendered people not against and the media pushing it as an issue and then the right reacting.

 

[pgtl_10]

This is a battle that the Obama administration is going to lose.

I think so too.

 

[Poltergust]

HB2 did not just pop up out of nowhere completely unprovoked, it was a response to liberal legislation passed in Charlotte.

The timeline is this

-Charlotte passes LGBT non-discrimination ordinance
-NC State Legislature passes HB2 to strike down Charlotte ordinance
-In response, the Obama administration issues bathroom guidelines, and threatens to block federal funding for schools that refuse to comply
-Federal judge issues injunction on the Obama Administration's order.

The thing about the ordinance is that it didn't really change anything in regards to trans individuals, just clarified what was already happening.

I don't believe it was also covered much by the media until the state legislature struck it down.

 

[Blader]

Because the media, which is left based, pushed it as such, and started throwing it in the spotlight in news and TV. This is something I don't understand why advocates won't admit. They brought it to be an issue. Not saying that the right wings didn't help just that you know, there are two sides to a coin.

Well no shit, the Republican governor of North Carolina is the one who kicked this whole thing off by signing a law specifically about transgender bathroom access. Is the media not supposed to report on discriminatory laws? Did you think a national debate over gay marriage was the media's fault for reporting on Prop 8?

Wow way to generalize. A lot of us republicans aren't bigots, despite how we're portrayed on heavily liberal leaning forums like this one.

And by your nominee for president, right?

 

[partyphone]

Wow way to generalize. A lot of us republicans aren't bigots, despite how we're portrayed on heavily liberal leaning forums like this one.

then why are you still a republican? the party platform is full of bigotry and ignorance. do you not support it?

 

[aeolist]

Looking through google 2013, most of the laws I see are for transgendered people not against and the media pushing it as an issue and then the right reacting.

it blew up this year because north carolina passed a discriminatory law. should the media refuse to cover things like this?

 

[Freddy Barry]

Yes? It's not really that hard to not be a bigot. It's not like Obama is putting undo hardship on them.

You know how many of those people are in this country, an abrupt threat to those peoples funding won't work unless that groups shrinks.

 

[Link]

I like how because I pointed out threatening states funding is wrong I'm all of a sudden a republican. I guess you're not capable of a civil argument?

If states don't want to follow federal guidelines, they don't get federal funding. Not sure why Republicans only care about the evil federal government when it comes to getting money from them. You'd think they'd be more than happy to get by on their own and be personally responsible.

And your post history is what makes you a Republican.

 

[Version 3.0]

Basically. It's like a 99% chance that everyone against these laws has been in a bathroom with someone who is trans and never even realized it.

No way to calculate that, but let's re-phrase: if they were in a bathroom with a person who is trans, they probably wouldn't know.

It's a non-issue in reality. Only in right wing hate world does it become one.

 

[Freddy Barry]

it blew up this year because north carolina passed a discriminatory law. should the media refuse to cover things like this?

You're making a circular argument irrelevant tot he point I'm making now, I never once mentioned covering news on republican reactions, the reasons it's a big deal is because of the media and the obama administration making it a big one. whether or not the right is extending it being a big deal is a different conversation.

My other main point is that Obama abruptly threatening states funding doesn't make any sense, and it should have been obvious it would cause a big reaction.

 

[lightskintwin]

HB2 did not just pop up out of nowhere completely unprovoked, it was a response to liberal legislation passed in Charlotte.

The timeline is this

-Charlotte passes LGBT non-discrimination ordinance
-NC State Legislature passes HB2 to strike down Charlotte ordinance
-In response, the Obama administration issues bathroom guidelines, and threatens to block federal funding for schools that refuse to comply
-Federal judge issues injunction on the Obama Administration's order.

Ok, you're right. I just looked it up. I guess people don't tend to notice when an anti discrimination bill gets passed as much as a pro discrimination bill does. LOL

 

[Brakke]

The Administration's guidance was only a stop-gap solution anyway. This seems like an issue that's not going to be solved in general short of federal legislation and/or a Supreme Court decision.

Wish the guidance would've carried until then, though.

 

[Ahasverus]

Wow way to generalize. A lot of us republicans aren't bigots, despite how we're portrayed on heavily liberal leaning forums like this one.

Sorry but this is what I picture after somebody says he's one of the good republicans, after everything about the Republican party after all the many, many examples of fuckery.

"... And xenophobic and homophobes and bigots and uneducated and religious fanatics and anti-science ones and..." the list goes on and on. I'd rather people to tell me they are libertarians.