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[Yagharek]

N'Gai Croal is far better than Michael Pachter any day of the week.

So fucking true. Pachter is a rumourmonger, sales counter and nothing more. Any of his predictions are invariably false.

 

[jimmypop]

Croal has been irrelevant for some time. His posturing is just too much to take.

Oh, and now he's a consultant. That alone is enough to engender hate.

 

[Slavik81]

You know, you're right. The video game journalist should have gone on an international crusade to change the nature of race relations and finally create a truly integrated society, instead of suggesting that maybe Capcom might want to tone down some of the imagery in their game. That's a far more sensible solution. It certainly would have been more successful.

No problem of that scale is solved by a single person. Individuals still do make a difference, though, and N'Gai especially. As a journalist, his words are heard louder than most.

Unfortunately, doing the right thing is hard.

 

[Talon]

That aside, I'm amazed that people still can't see what he talking about, obviously so is N'Gai, hence the follow up article. The overly defensive reaction to his comments, the mischaracterisation and straw man attacks just floor me. Yes, there is a difference between saying something is racist and saying something contains connections to classic racist imagery. N'Gai doesn't believe, and at has at no point asserted, that the creators of the game had any racist intent. Simply that Capcom, lacking sensitivity around the issue, appropriated classic adventure images of Africa and Africans which, viewed with our modern eyes, are racially vilifying. Othering in a horrible way that society felt fine with half a century ago, but no longer does.

Also, the 'it's just zombies, it's just a game.' really gets to me. If I painted the prisoner in Custer's Revenge green would the game only be disgusting because its now about necrophilia? Are zombies a free pass?

Welcome to the Internet, where you rarely get higher than a F in Reading Comprehension.

No problem of that scale is solved by a single person. Individuals still do make a difference, though, and N'Gai especially. As a journalist, his words are heard louder than most.

Unfortunately, doing the right thing is hard.

The problem isn't going to get solved when every time race comes up nearly half the respondents say, "get over it," which is absolutely what happened across the Interwebs.

 

[krypt0nian]

Well then write something constructive instead of calling people "jealous bitches" and saying you "fucking hate" someone. Nothing you said makes any sense.

That was constructive. I fucking hate the jealous whiny bitches. Made perfect sense.

 

[freethought]

No problem of that scale is solved by a single person. Individuals still do make a difference, though, and N'Gai especially. As a journalist, his words are heard louder than most.

Unfortunately, doing the right thing is hard.

N'Gai Croal; the Michael Knight of video game journalism.

 

[dr3upmushroom]

Did he? I haven't listened to any podcasts with him. Well, if he's backpedaling, I won't say that's to be expected.. but I'd appreciate it nonetheless.

I'm not going to defend the guy, but don't you think it's a little silly to be berating the guy on a message board when you openly admit you haven't kept up with his opinion on the matter? If you don't care what he thinks, then why so angry? And if you do, then why don't you keep up on it? Like someone else mentioned, explaining how he felt isn't backpedaling, but even if it was, is he never allowed to change his opinion on the matter?

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

I dunno about you guys but I've accepted my irrelevance. I've given up on the big picture and what the gaming industry is supposed to be about cause I know I'll never be a part of it.

I still like talking about the games though.

 

[rollingstart]

N'gai is cool on Out of the Game when not mainly talking about video games. About video games...I think the best way I can describe it is like how people say that to find a good writer on video games that person should be a writer first and a gamer second; well, N'gai seems is like that. It's not bad thing at all, it's just that sometimes (on podcasts) he is trying to find more about a game than just talking about the game. I think because Out of the Game isn't focused on video games that he comes off as more enjoyable to listen to.

 

[Night_Trekker]

Whenever a black guy (or gal) talks about race relations/racism, I generally take the position that they're far more likely to know what they're talking about than I do.

Letting other people think and make judgments for you... and your username is "freethought" :lol

I'm not trying to be an asshole, but that's pretty funny.

 

[Talon]

Letting other people think and make judgments for you... and your username is "freethought" :lol

I'm not trying to be an asshole, but that's pretty funny.

I don't think that's what he's saying.

 

[SapientWolf]

The thing I hate the most about N'Gai Croal hate threads is that people can't even summon up enough internet angry to make them interesting. Most other uninformed NeoGAF threads are at least entertaining.

I'm not sure there is a difference between an editorial and a column, and I've written for plenty of newspapers and magazines. Is there some subtle or not-so-subtle difference that I'm missing?

Anyway, columns and editorials are opinion pieces, and it may be that a lot of people are taking exception to the overuse of "I" in Croal's writings. Plenty of writers overuse the first-person perspective in opinion-based pieces and, unfortunately, game writers tend to do it in pieces that are supposed to be objective as well.

It's entirely possible to create an argument and support an opinion without making the author the focal point of a piece. My criticism of Croal's writing is that he seems to make himself the story, rather than letting whatever he's discussing take the lead. His arguments are sound and his opinions are valid, but they're always overshadowed by the looming presence of THE AUTHOR.

This is actually a valid criticism, although it could be more of a writing style issue than an ego issue. But most of the other negative comments in this thread consist of baseless whining or unsubstantiated ad hominem attacks.

 

[Night_Trekker]

I don't think that's what he's saying.

He's suggesting that, as a black man, N'Gai's opinions on the "offensive imagery" in RE5 are somehow more valid or valuable than his own. I'm sorry, but I don't agree with that.

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

As a lazy American, I let others do the thinking for me.

 

[Mooreberg]

I'm still more offended by the controls.

 

[dr3upmushroom]

He's suggesting that, as a black man, N'Gai's opinions on the "offensive imagery" in RE5 are somehow more valid or valuable than his own. I'm sorry, but I don't agree with that.

That's completely ridiculous. He's saying that in matters concerning racism, he values the opinion of someone he may have actually dealt with race issues, when he has not. Saying that that is letting others think for him is totally ridiculous. If you don't value the opinion of someone with more experience than you in any given subject, how do you learn anything? You just decide what you want to believe, and you're right?

 

[Shurs]

So fucking true. Pachter is a rumourmonger, sales counter and nothing more. Any of his predictions are invariably false.

Pachter is not, and has never been, a journalist.

 

[Shurs]

Welcome to the Internet, where you rarely get higher than a F in Reading Comprehension.

:lol

 

[Flavius]

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, obviously, to like, or dislike, whomever they choose...but Jesus H. Christ...the fact that this thread even exists is pretty fucking embarrassing.

 

[Shurs]

I have really enjoyed N'Gai's work over the years, specifically his collaborative pieces with Stephen Totillo.

 

[McBacon]

Welcome to the Internet, where you rarely get higher than a F in Reading Comprehension

:lol Oh the ironing!!

 

[Darklord]

So fucking true. Pachter is a rumourmonger, sales counter and nothing more. Any of his predictions are invariably false.

He's not a rumour monger, he gives his opinion on things and where they should head. When you hear what he has to say it actually makes a lot of sense.

:lol Oh the ironing!!

 

[MC Safety]

This is actually a valid criticism, although it could be more of a writing style issue than an ego issue. But most of the other negative comments in this thread consist of baseless whining or unsubstantiated ad hominem attacks.

It's easy to overuse the first-person perspective. Regardless of whether it's done out of laziness or born of ego, it's still weak writing.

It's possible to have good ideas and present them poorly. A good message can be obscured or lost by a writer out to push himself rather than an idea.

At this point, the story is no longer about the debate over the presentation of zombies in Resident Evil. This may be what a lot of people are taking issue with.

 

[Porridge]

This thread isn't locked already?

I'm not going to defend the guy, but don't you think it's a little silly to be berating the guy on a message board when you openly admit you haven't kept up with his opinion on the matter? If you don't care what he thinks, then why so angry? And if you do, then why don't you keep up on it? Like someone else mentioned, explaining how he felt isn't backpedaling, but even if it was, is he never allowed to change his opinion on the matter?

Sigh... You know, I've read his written opinions. But I haven't stalked the guy's every move and every podcast appearance. I really don't care that much.

Look at my rate of posting on GAF, I rarely drop in anymore. But someone brought up this guy and I felt like talking about him. What's silly about talking about a guy who's a part of the gaming scene? I'm not angry man, just stating a differing opinion..

He's allowed to change any view he wants. :lol The whole point is that anyone or anything labelled as racist or possibly racist ignites a vicious response in America. No one wants to be part of that shit.

Though I'll say Croal ought to be commended for not propping up this puppet more often. He really could have milked it a whole lot more

 

[jax (old)]

I want to say one of N'Gai Croals fundamental complaints about the original RE5 video is moot... He says the footage doesn't humanise the south africans in the video. But its a trailer for a horror game.This argument was central to his "commentary on the trailer" Probably one of the dumbest things anyone can say. The trailer was trying to evocate a "feeling/mood".. and he construes racism from it. Its borderline retarded. How many horror flick trailers "humanise" the monsters. They all go for atmosphere and mood. RE5's trailer did it fantastically.

I found his commentary about japanese people working on this game to be more offensive to be honest. Very twee.

 

[Zeliard]

N'gai is cool on Out of the Game when not mainly talking about video games. About video games...I think the best way I can describe it is like how people say that to find a good writer on video games that person should be a writer first and a gamer second; well, N'gai seems is like that. It's not bad thing at all, it's just that sometimes (on podcasts) he is trying to find more about a game than just talking about the game. I think because Out of the Game isn't focused on video games that he comes off as more enjoyable to listen to.

Isn't that a good thing, though? We have plenty of people who discuss the games themselves on more of a surface level, and there's nothing wrong with that. The interesting thing about N'Gai is that he often looks at games and other aspects of the gaming industry from a very different perspective, and in ways we may not immediately consider.

I think the fact that he started gaming in 1999, often said in derision, is a very good thing in this case. It offers him a sense of detachment from games, at least much moreso than those of us who've basically been playing our entire lives, and it's what allows him to look at things from a different angle. It also lets him more easily sense how the general outside public might react to a certain aspect of gaming and to look at things from their point of view.

 

[Flavius]

It's easy to overuse the first-person perspective. Regardless of whether it's done out of laziness or born of ego, it's still weak writing.

It's possible to have good ideas and present them poorly. A good message can be obscured or lost by a writer out to push himself rather than an idea.

At this point, the story is no longer about the debate over the presentation of zombies in Resident Evil. This may be what a lot of people are taking issue with.

I get your point, but honestly, if we're going to start devoting entire threads to games writers whose methodologies may not (seemingly) be the most technically sound and/or whose skills may not (seemingly) be particularly strong, then I make a motion to create a new subforum that caters precisely to that sort of discussion.

Sky is blue, water is wet, and that shit's just going to run on for pages and pages. Notwithstanding the FPS-writing, I fail to believe that Croal's writing sits on the weak end of the enthusiast press teeter-totter.

 

[Flavius]

I want to say one of N'Gai Croals fundamental complaints about the original RE5 video is moot... He says the footage doesn't humanise the south africans in the video. But its a trailer for a horror game.This argument was central to his "commentary on the trailer" Probably one of the dumbest things anyone can say. The trailer was trying to evocate a "feeling/mood".. and he construes racism from it. Its borderline retarded. How many horror flick trailers "humanise" the monsters. They all go for atmosphere and mood. RE5's trailer did it fantastically.

I found his commentary about japanese people working on this game to be more offensive to be honest. Very twee.

Congrats on being the latest in a long line of fucktards who either...

A. Fails at reading comprehension; or

B. Never bothered to read N'Gai's original comments in the first instance.

You are the corporeal pot to your illusory kettle.

 

[jax (old)]

Isn't that a good thing, though? We have plenty of people who discuss the games themselves on more of a surface level, and there's nothing wrong with that. The interesting thing about N'Gai is that he often looks at games and other aspects of the gaming industry from a very different perspective, and in ways we may not immediately consider.

I think the fact that he started gaming in 1999, often said in derision, is a very good thing in this case. It offers him a sense of detachment from games, at least much moreso than those of us who've basically been playing our entire lives, and it's what allows him to look at things from a different angle. It also lets him more easily sense how the general outside public might react to a certain aspect of gaming and to look at things from their point of view.

or it could make him kind of irrelevant.

Especially when he weighs in as a "specialist, expert".... something which he downplays quite cleverly but constantly "cavaeting" his understanding on the back of his "lack of experience". How many times has he gone and prefaced his statements with this in conversations.

It comes out all the time. He's pretty terrible.

 

[Gattsu25]

I want to say one of N'Gai Croals fundamental complaints about the original RE5 video is moot... He says the footage doesn't humanise the south africans in the video. But its a trailer for a horror game.This argument was central to his "commentary on the trailer" Probably one of the dumbest things anyone can say. The trailer was trying to evocate a "feeling/mood".. and he construes racism from it. Its borderline retarded. How many horror flick trailers "humanise" the monsters. They all go for atmosphere and mood. RE5's trailer did it fantastically.

I found his commentary about japanese people working on this game to be more offensive to be honest. Very twee.

Eh?

 

[TunaMarshmallow]

The interesting thing about N'Gai is that he often looks at games and other aspects of the gaming industry from a very different perspective, and in ways we may not immediately consider.

Yes, from an obnoxious, falsely profound perspective. How lovely. (Note: I'm not talking about the RE5 shit in particular.)

Honestly, I've got nothing against the guy. He writes and speaks like a normal member of the Ivy-undergrad army of which he is a member. He's not particularly sharp and many of his 'thoughts' are more cringe-inducing than deep, but he carries himself like he's an academic. Yes, it's annoying and silly. But it is (unfortunately) very normal.

Still, he gets too much hate here. He's just a dude (annoyingly) making a living.

 

[jax (old)]

Congrats on being the latest in a long line of fucktards who either...

A. Fails at reading comprehension; or

B. Never bothered to read N'Gai's original comments in the first instance.

You are the corporeal pot to your illusory kettle.

I heard what he said but let's be honest - on the back of his "re5 is racist remarks" he's build himself a career and apparently a rabid fanbase from your post. Just laughable. He spouted sensationalized bullshit about the game and that was it. There really wasn't more to it. black people portrayed as monsters in a game where they are indeed monsters = racist? How about no. Fuck no

and you gotta love the whole "chris is a white man" "observation" too. Just laughable. This is where his lack of gaming experience comes in. Anyone who has every played an RE game would not have made any of these comments.



* editing iphone texting grammar/spell check

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

So fucking true. Pachter is a rumourmonger, sales counter and nothing more. Any of his predictions are invariably false.

I vaguely recall Pachter actually having been asked by gaf to get into these kind of predictions.

 

[Scribble]

Wow. I remember the days when everyone here loved N'Gai.

 

[Flavius]

I heard what he said but let's be honest - on the back of his "re5 is racist remarks" he's build himself a career and apparently a rabid fanbase from your post. Just laughable. He spouted sensationalized bullshit about the game and that was it. There really wasn't more to it. black people portrayed as monsters in a game where they are indeed monsters = racist? How about no. Fuck no

and you gotta love the whole "chris is a white man" "observation" too. Just laughable. This is where his lack of gaming experience comes in. Anyone who has every played an RE game would not have made any of these comments.



* editing iphone texting grammar/spell check

Many, many moons ago when I was a lad, it was incredibly taboo to say anything about another person's mother. This was before "yo' mamma" joke were in vogue (yep, I am just that old). You could, for instance, say something like...

"Hey, your momma likes to cook dinner!"

And the response would be such that you'd imagined that young man had just whipped out some lighter fluid, doused the other boy's mother with it, and lit her on fire. The boy wasn't paying attention to precisely what the other boy said, but the fact that he referenced his mother was enough for him to jump to conclusions and assume the worst.

I don't know for sure, but I suspect that's what's happening here. You (and others) see the term "racial" (did N'Gai ever even use the term "racist"?), and automatically assume that you know exactly what Croal is saying, without, you know, actually reading and attempting to understand what it was that he said.

 

[Talon]

That's completely ridiculous. He's saying that in matters concerning racism, he values the opinion of someone he may have actually dealt with race issues, when he has not. Saying that that is letting others think for him is totally ridiculous. If you don't value the opinion of someone with more experience than you in any given subject, how do you learn anything? You just decide what you want to believe, and you're right?

/repeated so he can read it

I found his commentary about japanese people working on this game to be more offensive to be honest. Very twee.

Most Korean impressions of America are based off of media consumption and, well, stereotypes. It's the result of living in a very homogenous culture. Doesn't make Koreans racist or ignorant, necessarily, they just don't deal with other cultures in a day-to-day basis, which is why you'll get gawked at if you look significantly different.

I would assume that the situation is similar in Japan and China.

 

[INTERNET]

Wow. I remember the days when everyone here loved N'Gai.

As an envoy to the general public through Newsweek he was just about perfect; when his audience becomes people who have been playing games three times longer than him, all of a sudden he doesn't seem so fresh. Many times he (unwittingly) reiterates common unspoken knowledge as something profound, and (unintentionally) comes off as condescending.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

That's enough pig, that's enough.

 

[rollingstart]

That's enough pig, that's enough.

you butchered that line

Isn't that a good thing, though? We have plenty of people who discuss the games themselves on more of a surface level, and there's nothing wrong with that. The interesting thing about N'Gai is that he often looks at games and other aspects of the gaming industry from a very different perspective, and in ways we may not immediately consider.

I think the fact that he started gaming in 1999, often said in derision, is a very good thing in this case. It offers him a sense of detachment from games, at least much moreso than those of us who've basically been playing our entire lives, and it's what allows him to look at things from a different angle. It also lets him more easily sense how the general outside public might react to a certain aspect of gaming and to look at things from their point of view.

Saying "it's not a bad thing" is the most I would say based on the podcasts he's been on in the past. I think that perspective is a good thing but in a lot of those cases it doesn't fit the context or mesh with what others are saying. That's why I think on Out of the Game, or even that gametrailer show, he comes off better. It works in the opposite way too, I think.

 

[Stinkles]

There should only be one type of video game writing. That one type is correct and should replace all others. What is it? I won't tell you. However, the Duke will die before these eyes and he'll know, he'll know, that it is I, Baron Vladimir Harkonnen, who encompasses his doom!

 

[freethought]

Letting other people think and make judgments for you... and your username is "freethought" :lol

I'm not trying to be an asshole, but that's pretty funny.

I was halfway through a post ripping your argument to shreds, because it really was pretty dumb, but then I noticed that Talon and dr3upmushroom had already done so. Thanks guys.

 

[Nizz]

There should only be one type of video game writing. That one type is correct and should replace all others. What is it? I won't tell you. However, the Duke will die before these eyes and he'll know, he'll know, that it is I, Baron Vladimir Harkonnen, who encompasses his doom!

You really like Dune, don't you? :lol

 

[Stinkles]

You really like Dune, don't you? :lol

Yes. In many different ways. Books - straight up like them (until Poochy Herbert took over). Movie - flawed masterpiece. But I stand by my ferocious monologue!

 

[michaelpachter]

A whole thread dedicated to whether N'Gai is full of himself? Puh-leeze.

You guys should be thankful that there are people like N'Gai out there who have a platform. He may be less of a hardcore gamer than some, but is certainly aligned with most of you, and his opinions have the potential to shape the industry. If he rightfully thinks that his opinions should be given great weight, good for him. Industry commentators that don't have firm opinions are disregarded. Those who have firm views tend to be published, and tend to make an impact.

To paraphrase the late and great Lloyd Bentsen, I know N'Gai Croal, consider him my friend, and YOU, NeoGAF, are no N'Gai Croal.

I'll take N'Gai over Pachter any day. Pachter's just a rumormonger.

 

[Jinfash]

Well said Pachter. I'll take N'Gai any day too.

 

[Mamesj]

As an envoy to the general public through Newsweek he was just about perfect; when his audience becomes people who have been playing games three times longer than him, all of a sudden he doesn't seem so fresh. Many times he (unwittingly) reiterates common unspoken knowledge as something profound, and (unintentionally) comes off as condescending.

If he's coming off as condescending, it's because people are insecure, like a lot of message board gamers clearly are (and inadvertently announce on daily basis in their reactions to E3 conferences and general console warz bullshit.)

He's no different than anyone else on the podcasts I've heard him take part in, in terms of his tone, but clearly comes from a different perspective. And to people who haven't been huffing gas in between marathon gaming sessions in the past 20 years, it doesn't matter that he started gaming later or occasionally speaks in a more specialized vocabulary--he makes good contributions to discussions about gaming and that's what matters.

btw, the Out of the Game podcasts has guys who openly (and often, correctly) talk trash about certain aspects of gaming and gaming culture, but nobody calls them out for being condescending or that awful word, "pretentious." :lol

 

[chubigans]

I'll take N'Gai over Pachter any day. Pachter's just a rumormonger.

Have you two even been on a Bonus Round together? I can't seem to remember.

Also, much agreed.

 

[DanteFox]

A whole thread dedicated to whether N'Gai is full of himself? Puh-leeze.

You guys should be thankful that there are people like N'Gai out there who have a platform. He may be less of a hardcore gamer than some, but is certainly aligned with most of you, and his opinions have the potential to shape the industry. If he rightfully thinks that his opinions should be given great weight, good for him. Industry commentators that don't have firm opinions are disregarded. Those who have firm views tend to be published, and tend to make an impact.

To paraphrase the late and great Lloyd Bentsen, I know N'Gai Croal, consider him my friend, and YOU, NeoGAF, are no N'Gai Croal.

I'll take N'Gai over Pachter any day. Pachter's just a rumormonger.

Nah dude you're way better than N'gai, but overall he's an ok guy. Although I do agree that he blew the whole RE5 thing way out of proportion.

 

[Broseybrose]

A whole thread dedicated to whether N'Gai is full of himself? Puh-leeze.

You guys should be thankful that there are people like N'Gai out there who have a platform. He may be less of a hardcore gamer than some, but is certainly aligned with most of you, and his opinions have the potential to shape the industry. If he rightfully thinks that his opinions should be given great weight, good for him. Industry commentators that don't have firm opinions are disregarded. Those who have firm views tend to be published, and tend to make an impact.

To paraphrase the late and great Lloyd Bentsen, I know N'Gai Croal, consider him my friend, and YOU, NeoGAF, are no N'Gai Croal.

I'll take N'Gai over Pachter any day. Pachter's just a rumormonger.

haha. i hope this finally puts a lid on this thread.

 

[TunaMarshmallow]

If he's coming off as condescending, it's because people are insecure

As I noted earlier on this page, I find him obnoxious, pretentious and (despite his arguing the contrary) pretty shallow. And, sure, I also find him condescending.

But what does that have to do with me being insecure?