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[dskillzhtown]

I like N'Gai a lot, I wish this industry had more people like him.

Same here. It is refreshing to hear someone talking about gaming who has someone of a perspective. I am starting to hate most gaming podcasts because they seem to have no perspective.

 

[M.J. Doja]

I don't care much for him at all.

If you think those who don't like him are racist or conservative, you're pretty much a retard.

defensive much?

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

defensive much?

Uh, no. I think he's merely pointing out that labeling everyone that doesn't "like" a journalist as racist is just bad practice.

 

[Porridge]

Are you aware that at the time, the trailer footage was what we had to go on, since the full game wasn't released yet?

Are you aware that trailers, by their very definition, are designed to provide the potential consumer an idea of what to expect in the final product?

Are you aware that Croal was asked his opinion on the trailer, and offered his opinion on said trailer without passing judgment on the game's overall worth, since he hadn't played it yet?

You can try again.

This dead horse we keep beating is more of a dusty skeleton at this point. I had it right the first time but you fundamentally misunderstood my point. That's okay.

You don't have to tell me what a trailer is and you don't have to tell me what to expect from them. I was born in the morning, but not yesterday morning.

Croal was asked his opinion, yes. Once in fact. And his reaction was knee-jerk, unsubstantiated and it branded the game as racist. I don't think that's fair. He could've clarified that the game may not reflect his initial opinion. Instead, all he wanted to do was tell us of how sure he was "no one black worked on this game."

Now I wondered in a previous post if he had finished the game and changed his tune. Care to inform us on that one?

P.S. In response to N'Gai's claims that his detractors didn't respond back to him, I wrote a very respectful but critical e-mail to him to which I've received no reply...

 

[ReiGun]

BTW, who WAS the first one to find profound unease with the RE5 trailer? The only thing I can find are links to some questionable blogs with extreme posts like accusing Capcom os starting off kids early on hating black people. =x

It was a woman named Kym Platts on a blog called Black Looks. At least, that's the earliest entry on the subject I got in my quick search of GamePolitics (August 1, 2007).

 

[Kitschkraft]

He's always implied it, always questioned it. And having played (I wonder if he's beaten it) the completed game, he still hasn't backed away from opinions that stemmed from a trailer

And it's his right of course, but when just about the whole gaming world thinks his lone wolf view is such a farce, what else can you be but annoyed at the whole thing?

Um...Ngai croal wasn't the only person to point out the racial imagery in RE5. Hell, from what I remember, he wasn't even the first one. He just happened to be the first prominent African American in the industry to talk about it, and after that, he was seen as some sort of "whistle blower" or something. Everyone acts so fucking naive about it, it was a fucking elephant in the room, and if it wasn't something that came out of a niche part of our culture, it would have gained a lot more attention.

Hell, I remember Adam Sessler and Morgan Webb fucking talked about the imagery in their review of the game on xplay.

 

[Porridge]

Um...Ngai croal wasn't the only person to point out the racial imagery in RE5. Hell, from what I remember, he wasn't even the first one. He just happened to be the first prominent African American in the industry to talk about it, and after that, he was seen as some sort of "whistle blower" or something. Everyone acts so fucking naive about it, it was a fucking elephant in the room, and if it wasn't something that came out of a niche part of our culture, it would have gained a lot more attention.

Hell, I remember Adam Sessler and Morgan Webb fucking talked about the imagery in their review of the game on xplay.

Yes, I recall an African American woman as being the first to write about it. She later admitted to having no knowledge of the previous games or videogames in general. She later also admitted to being more comfortable killing white zombies than black ones. I don't have a preference myself.

I didn't think zombies retained ethnic recognition...

 

[BrLvgThrChmstry]

 

[Cipherr]

Edited.

Im not going to be able to be nice so screw it.

 

[Azih]

I really don't agree with N'Gai on anything. That is all.

 

[Y2Kev]

I love N'Gai so much. Such a great writer who makes an assertion and tries his hardest to support his opinion with evidence.

He seems to be the mortal enemy of "hardcore" gamers (omg he started playing games in 1999!!!) so that makes it all the more enjoyable.

 

[Azih]

He seems to be the mortal enemy of "hardcore" gamers

Does he?

 

[fistwell_old]

Reading comprehension is good for you.

Snappy one-liner comeback! So you must be right, totally, like!!

 

[M.J. Doja]

Snappy one-liner comeback! So you must be right, totally, like!!

:lol ironic

 

[jax (old)]

This doesn't really mean much. GAF is a hive mind. I honestly never heard of N'Gai until he appeared on 1up podcasts...which became popular because of the hivemind of the forum. So on and so forth. Game Informer is associated with GameStop which is THE MORTAL ENEMY.

So, bad comparison.



Can you name, in a tangible way, how he has affected gaming journalism? There is just as much bad gaming journalism as there is good before and after N'Gai...

Oh I disagree with the hive mind bit and I think that its fairly insulting. I've bought EDGE for ages and while we used to have biffovision, its now been replaced by Ngai (and the other guy - can't even recall the article name but its not very good) - but I can tell you this. The day I opened it, and saw an article by Ngai Croal, I was like hell no. And then I read it and I was like, "that really isn't saying anything". At the end of the day, my personal opinion on him/games differ because I'm a hardcore gamer who like high ended game critique (which is why I buy EDGE) and he doesn't do it for me at all.

And why not? The OP already listed all the reasons. There's probably more - that pompous boring "wired-mag" style writing which I find borderline unreadable.

 

[fistwell_old]

:lol ironic

Like, totally!!?

 

[BrLvgThrChmstry]

I'm a hardcore gamer who like high ended game critique (which is why I buy EDGE)

I Lmao'd. And before you plan and execute a rebuttle, I also purchase EDGE on a monthly basis...

Shake hands? Truce?

 

[Amibguous Cad]

It's only hubris if you're wrong.

N'Gai is pretty clearly much much better than most game journalists, so his smugness is justified.

 

[Tashi]

His analogies are epic!

But nah, I like N'Gai, he's always a good listen on 1up Yours.

 

[Slavik81]

Like his work or not, his arguments on race in RE5 shouldn't be disregarded.

Well, not immediately. First they should be torn down to their fundimental arguments, and shredded one at a time.

Only then should it be discarded. Otherwise, someone might one day find them and accept them, having seen no refutation.

 

[fistwell_old]

N'Gai is pretty clearly much much better than most game journalists, so his smugness is justified.

Dont know bout yall, but i welcome the rule of our new dreadlocks-dude overlord.

 

[BrLvgThrChmstry]

Dont know bout yall, but i welcome the rule of our new dreadlocks-dude overlord.

 

[fistwell_old]

Have to admit... they're glorious.

 

[Y2Kev]

That NYT review committed a basic logical fallacy right off the bat with the first sentence. Impressive.

People have been raging over something N'Gai never said for months now.

Does he?

Yeah. "Hardcore," mind you.

 

[FrankT]

There was a lot of imagery in that trailer that dovetailed with classic racist imagery.

Don't tell me he didn't say this or mean something else with it. It is at the outset when all this race discussion was propagated and nowhere else. Plain and simple. It is good the Times got it right however, and if you please why did Sessler feel the need to touch on it or the Times for that matter because it started somewhere. That somewhere just happens to be Ngai.

 

[freethought]

Don't tell me he didn't say this or mean something else with it. It is at the outset when all this race discussion was propagated and nowhere else. Plain and simple. It is good the Times got it right however, and if you please why did Sessler feel the need to touch on it or the Times for that matter because it started somewhere. That somewhere just happens to be Ngai.

You know, I sat staring at that quote for like 30 seconds. Where did he call RE5 racist? I'm not seeing it.

 

[FrankT]

You know, I sat staring at that quote for like 30 seconds. Where did he call RE5 racist? I'm not seeing it.

Keep staring because if he needs to say something directly in your face for you then move on brotha. Aka it's not racist, but man that is classic racist imagery. I mean come on with it already.

 

[wolfmat]

Why is this thread 6 pages long again? Wah wah N'Gai? You guys are ridiculous.

 

[Y2Kev]

Don't tell me he didn't say this or mean something else with it. It is at the outset when all this race discussion was propagated and nowhere else. Plain and simple. It is good the Times got it right however, and if you please why did Sessler feel the need to touch on it or the Times for that matter because it started somewhere. That somewhere just happens to be Ngai.

It dovetails with classic racist imagery. It's not classic racist imagery.

Would anything with "racist imagery" be racist to you?

 

[FrankT]

It dovetails with classic racist imagery. It's not classic racist imagery.

Would anything with "racist imagery" be racist to you?

Oh something that can be connected with. I see. A connection with what exactly. Indeed.

Even if you say that is not what he meant. That's fine, fair enough, but yet this discussion started with him and certainly did not end with him. RE5 racist "connection" discussion was propagated by him, and him alone while the Times et. al. put a plug on it nicely.

 

[freethought]

Keep staring because if he needs to say something directly in your face for you then move on brotha. Aka it's not racist, but man that is classic racist imagery. I mean come on with it already.

No, you come on. I see somebody musing that the latest RE5 trailer has some imagery that could be misinterpreted by an American audience, it might even make some of them uneasy. I don't see him calling the game racist.

 

[FrankT]

You got to be kidding. Misinterpreted my ass. It wasn't up for interpretation genius. He said it clearly. It can be connected with. While it is convenient to believe that it cannot be connected with that's not what he said. He propagated this entire racist discussion whether or not he had to come out and say it's racist or not. He didn't have to and that is why the entire game industry took a side on it. Even experts from Kent State. :lol

Right, right.

If I needed him to come out and clarify later and say this game is not racist would that change a thing. Absoutely not.

The entire game industry reacted to these comments appropriately and more importantly for a concise reason.

 

[Spider from Mars]

I enjoy N'Gai. I believe that he adds much more to conversations and topics in terms of insight and opinion than 99% of the people that cover the industry. He can be a tad self congratulatory at times but his fresh insight more than makes up for this.

 

[dr3upmushroom]

Keep staring because if he needs to say something directly in your face for you then move on brotha. Aka it's not racist, but man that is classic racist imagery. I mean come on with it already.

Hasn't he said on various podcasts or blogs that he DOESN'T think that the game is racist and that he realizes that it was probably unintentional on Capcom's part, that they were ignorant of the reaction that some people might have to it?

Which is all he did, explain his reaction, I don't know why anyone would get upset over that. No, N'Gai, that way you feel is stupid and not at all how a hardcore gamer would feel.

 

[dr3upmushroom]

No, you come on. I see somebody musing that the latest RE5 trailer has some imagery that could be misinterpreted by an American audience, it might even make some of them uneasy. I don't see him calling the game racist.

Exactly, I believe he has said explicitly that that is what he meant.

 

[Acid08]

Oh god this thread.

 

[krypt0nian]

Now I hate the fucking OP. As well as the whiny "why not me" crybabies in this thread.


Jealous bitches.

 

[Porridge]

Now I hate the fucking OP. As well as the whiny "why not me" crybabies in this thread.


Jealous bitches.

Well then write something constructive instead of calling people "jealous bitches" and saying you "fucking hate" someone. Nothing you said makes any sense.

Exactly, I believe he has said explicitly that that is what he meant.

Did he? I haven't listened to any podcasts with him. Well, if he's backpedaling, I won't say that's to be expected.. but I'd appreciate it nonetheless.

Whatever though, this is a story that even Croal has to be tired of. This game came out in March for God's sake...

 

[Talon]

But I didn't question his credentials. I honestly don't know if he's finished the game, which might yield a different viewpoint. And yes, judging a game based on a trailer is aberrant. Are you going to defend that?

The whole scandal came from comments to MTV Multiplayer blog about the game's first trailer.

To be fair, I don't follow everywhere N'Gai goes but the handful of times I've heard him comment on the game post-release has been more about how he's amused by how the crew at Capcom dodged any controversy by creating a rainbow alliance of zombies. :lol

I don't care much for him at all.

If you think those who don't like him are racist or conservative, you're pretty much a retard.

Would you kindly point me to where anyone in this thread made this accusation? Or you could just stroll along your merry way.

 

[FirstInHell]

narrative, storytelling, immersion, and most importantly NARRATIVE

I find it hilarious that everyone hates the guy now that he no longer writes for Newsweek :lol :lol :lol

 

[freethought]

You got to be kidding. Misinterpreted my ass. It wasn't up for interpretation genius. He said it clearly. It can be connected with. While it is convenient to believe that it cannot be connected with that's not what he said. He propagated this entire racist discussion whether or not he had to come out and say it's racist or not. He didn't have to and that is why the entire game industry took a side on it. Even experts from Kent State. :lol

Right, right.

If I needed him to come out and clarify later and say this game is not racist would that change a thing. Absoutely not.

I'm not saying the American audience misinterpreted his comment. I'm saying N'Gai's point was that the imagery within the RE5 trailer could be misinterpreted by said audience. It seems you misinterpreted my post. I won't insult your intelligence though, that's not how I roll.

 

[Talon]

Don't tell me he didn't say this or mean something else with it. It is at the outset when all this race discussion was propagated and nowhere else. Plain and simple. It is good the Times got it right however, and if you please why did Sessler feel the need to touch on it or the Times for that matter because it started somewhere. That somewhere just happens to be Ngai.

As I recall, N'Gai wasted his breath trying to specifically explain that it was the imagery of the trailer that unsettled him rather than the game being racist because he couldn't make a judgment at that point in time.

I also recall him wondering if a Japanese development company wasn't aware of what was or wasn't PC in the Western world (read: more diverse). I'd say that's a completely fair assessment because I would say that my Korean relative's perceptions of non-Koreans is almost exclusively based off of popular culture/media and the US military presence in the country.

Did he? I haven't listened to any podcasts with him. Well, if he's backpedaling, I won't say that's to be expected.. but I'd appreciate it nonetheless.

Whatever though, this is a story that even Croal has to be tired of. This game came out in March for God's sake...

It isn't backpedaling if it's consistent with his original comments, sir.

 

[Slavik81]

No, you come on. I see somebody musing that the latest RE5 trailer has some imagery that could be misinterpreted by an American audience, it might even make some of them uneasy. I don't see him calling the game racist.

True, but he supported the idea that it was right for them to be uneasy, even if they were incorrectly interpreting it. Instead of calling on the American public to get over their apprehensions with a misunderstood game, he requested that the creators change it.

 

[Talon]

True, but he supported the idea that it was right for them to be uneasy, even if they were incorrectly interpreting it. Instead of calling on the American public to get over their apprehensions with a misunderstood game, he requested that the creators change it.

That's the thing about interpretation, it's hard to say another's perception is just flatout wrong, especially when it deals with the subject of racism in a country under 50 years removed from the Civil Rights movement.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

He seems like a really nice guy on Out of the Game.

 

[FrankT]

I'm not saying the American audience misinterpreted his comment. I'm saying N'Gai's point was that the imagery within the RE5 trailer could be misinterpreted by said audience. It seems you misinterpreted my post. I won't insult your intelligence though, that's not how I roll.

And I'm saying that his comment wasn't about said audience making misinterpretations for themselves, but fair enough.

He seems like a really nice guy on Out of the Game.

I'm very certain that he is.

 

[freethought]

True, but he supported the idea that it was right for them to be uneasy, even if they were incorrectly interpreting it. Instead of calling on the American public to get over their apprehensions with a misunderstood game, he requested that the creators change it.

You know, you're right. The video game journalist should have gone on an international crusade to change the nature of race relations and finally create a truly integrated society, instead of suggesting that maybe Capcom might want to tone down some of the imagery in their game. That's a far more sensible solution. It certainly would have been more successful.

 

[Kintaro]

You know, you're right. The video game journalist should have gone on an international crusade to change the nature of race relations and finally create a truly integrated society, instead of suggesting that maybe Capcom might want to tone down some of the imagery in their game. That's a far more sensible solution. It certainly would have been more successful.

I would have gotten behind that far more than what occurred. :lol

 

[chicken_ramen]

And while it seems simple to us, I really don't think a lot of people can differentiate between a column/editorial and a regular news piece. People here always confuse them.

To be fair, while this is a fairly clear cut example, the news blogs of the gaming world have lead to the mixing of news and editorial across the board. The line between the two is getting muddier. Articles get more clicks that way.

That aside, I'm amazed that people still can't see what he talking about, obviously so is N'Gai, hence the follow up article. The overly defensive reaction to his comments, the mischaracterisation and straw man attacks just floor me. Yes, there is a difference between saying something is racist and saying something contains connections to classic racist imagery. N'Gai doesn't believe, and at has at no point asserted, that the creators of the game had any racist intent. Simply that Capcom, lacking sensitivity around the issue, appropriated classic adventure images of Africa and Africans which, viewed with our modern eyes, are racially vilifying. Othering in a horrible way that society felt fine with half a century ago, but no longer does.

Also, the 'it's just zombies, it's just a game.' really gets to me. If I painted the prisoner in Custer's Revenge green would the game only be disgusting because its now about necrophilia? Are zombies a free pass?

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

defensive much?

This post doesn't even make sense.