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The biggest problem with GoW:R / GT7 / H:FW being cross-gen is that we will have to wait another 3+ years to see strongest Sony ip's in full PS5 power

mckmas8808

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to be fair to the sony fans Cerny himself said game design would change because of the Ssd and yeah sony fans latched onto it

This isn't about console wars. It's just literally how computers work. Game design will change with the introduction of fast SSDs. It's not limited to the PS5. So my question for you is.................why are you like this?
 

SLB1904

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This isn't about console wars. It's just literally how computers work. Game design will change with the introduction of fast SSDs. It's not limited to the PS5. So my question for you is.................why are you like this?
lol another one gif
 

phil_t98

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This isn't about console wars. It's just literally how computers work. Game design will change with the introduction of fast SSDs. It's not limited to the PS5. So my question for you is.................why are you like this?
Because cross gen games are going to hurt the design of next gen games. We won’t see true next gen games for a while, so my question is…………..why don’t you question it?
 

FunkMiller

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Saying they're leaving money on the table is like saying paying for TV commercials is just a waste of money because it gives no form of direct profit

Those are two completely different things. One is not releasing a product, the other is marketing a product. Why not just say not having Ratchet on PS4 is the same as stuffing dollar bills up your ass, and have done with it?
 

VFXVeteran

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But none of this makes sense to me. So what are devkits? Are you considering them PCs? Plus.......everything can't be scaled back. I'm only talking consoles here, not PC games.
Devkits are consoles with an OS to them that can be written to or debugged from. But you don't make the application on the devkit because it doesn't support the applications. You can't run Maya or 3DS Max on a devkit for example. ND - who used to make pure exclusives - has development PCs for their design, asset creation and R&D work. They then compile out the Visual Studio C++ project to a PS SKU.

A console Devkit is not a PC in the way you look at PCs now.
 
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Klik

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This is why it's a smarter choice to wait for a PS5 Pro model and play true next-gen games there, unless you're afraid of missing out the latest trending games and you're fine buying a first model PS5 for $500 in 2021/22 (good luck with that), and spending another $500 for an inevitable Pro model in 2023 or having the hassle of selling the old console or trading it in. And you can bet there will be a Pro model by the end of 2023, current consoles are barely capable of doing native 4K @60 fps, let alone decent ray-tracing at @60 fps.

I won't play TLOU3 on an old ass PS5 for sure, and I will also play improved versions of older games. Meanwhile, I will clear up the backlog on my PS4 Pro. Which is a pretty silent one, by the way.
Dude, PS5 is more powerful than 95% gaming pc's out there.Even in 3-4 years PS5 is gonna be great. PS5 is totally different compared to how PS4 was weak when it was released.
 

Guilty_AI

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Those are two completely different things. One is not releasing a product, the other is marketing a product. Why not just say not having Ratchet on PS4 is the same as stuffing dollar bills up your ass, and have done with it?
I said it from the beggining didn't I? Those games aren't products, they're advertisements in the format of products, they're marketing another product called PS5.
 
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FunkMiller

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I said it from the beggining didn't I? Those games aren't products, they're advertisements in the format of products, they're marketing another product called PS5.

No. They’re games. Ratchet and Clank is a game. Designed to run exclusively on Ps5. You watch how it compares to God Of War when it comes out.
 

Guilty_AI

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No. They’re games. Ratchet and Clank is a game. Designed to run exclusively on Ps5. You watch how it compares to God Of War when it comes out.
I don't think you understand how the wheels turn in these markets mate, or maybe you just don't want to. But whatever makes you sleep at night.

And as for GOW, people will say it looks next gen en masse regardless, just like they did HFW. Most people can't tell the difference anyway.
 
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Men_in_Boxes

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Sonys strongest IP isn't IP that peaked in 2017, 2018.

Sonys strongest IP hasn't been revealed yet.
 

FunkMiller

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I don't think you understand how the wheels turn in these markets mate, or maybe you just don't want to. But whatever makes you sleep at night.

And as for GOW, people will say it looks next gen en masse regardless, just like they did HFW. Most people can't tell the difference anyway.

I think it’s actually that you’ll twist any facet of this discussion to back up your belief that all games can be downscaled or upscaled to any console or PC build. Rather than entertain the idea that Ratchet isn’t on the PS4 because it can’t handle it, you’ve decided that it only exists as a Ps5 exclusive as a marketing tool for the new console. Same goes for every Ps5 exclusive so far. Same goes for any XBox games that aren’t on the One.
 
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Guilty_AI

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I think it’s actually that you’ll twist any facet of this discussion to back up your belief that all games can be downscaled or upscaled to any console or PC build. Rather than entertain the idea that Ratchet isn’t on the PS4 because it can’t handle it, you’ve decided that it only exists as a Ps5 exclusive as a marketing tool for the new console. Same goes for every Ps5 exclusive so far. Same goes for any XBox games that aren’t on the One.
Sure sure, now go to bed Milton

 

mckmas8808

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Because cross gen games are going to hurt the design of next gen games. We won’t see true next gen games for a while, so my question is…………..why don’t you question it?

I agree with the bolded. I don't question it, because they've told us why they are doing it. It's also kinda obvious. Doesn't mean I can't have fun with what we are getting though. And it doesn't mean we should ignore games that are next-gen only either.

Devkits are consoles with an OS to them that can be written to or debugged from. But you don't make the application on the devkit because it doesn't support the applications. You can't run Maya or 3DS Max on a devkit for example. ND - who used to make pure exclusives - has development PCs for their design, asset creation and R&D work. They then compile out the Visual Studio C++ project to a PS SKU.

A console Devkit is not a PC in the way you look at PCs now.

Oh so you are saying the develop games on the PC in "THAT" way. Well yeah lol. It still doesn't mean everything can scale well. Somethings just can't.
 

AmuroChan

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Why not just design the game to take advantage of the PS5's full power, then remove specific design features in the last-gen version that wouldn't run on old hardware? For example, you can take advantage of instantaneous loading in the PS5 version, but on the PS4 version the game would have load screens. You can have 500 concurrent NPCs with advanced AI in the PS5 version, but on the PS4 version it's 100 NPCs with pre-configured AI. Look at a game like Shadow of Mordor. The PS4/X1 version has the nemesis system, arguably the game's coolest design feature. That feature does not exist in the PS3/X360 version as it wouldn't run on old hardware. So the developers were able to make a next-gen game that took advantage of next-gen hardware without it being compromised by the last-gen version.
 
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GetemMa

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I'm guessing but I wouldn't be surprised if we learn that the shortages in computer hardware are more dire than the tech industry has led on resulting in a situation where Sony and Microsoft will not be able to meet demand for much longer than we figure currently. Like maybe consoles might not be readily available until 2023 instead of the vague "next year" we keep hearing.

That would severely undercut the sales of any new games that come exclusively to these new platforms. So Sony did the only logical thing and made them cross gen.

This isn't that big a deal IMO. All this new extra hardware is indeed much more powerful than last gen, but this extra power goes to supporting things that are not incredibly noticeable except the big one, rendering resolution. I've said it a million times before but Ray Tracing effects alone are incredibly demanding. You can take a last gen game such as Uncharted 4 and if they put it on PS5, made it native 4K with full RT, some people would probably be shocked to learn that there wouldn't be a lot of extra power to drive much else. The nature of graphical improvements are going to be less and less noticeable as we move along but the power needed to drive them will still be very demanding.

So, God of War Ragnarok will still be a very good looking game but on PS4 it's gonna be 1080p and have no Ray Tracing effects, and I think a lot of people will be surprised to see it doesn't look miles better on PS5 other than it being in 4K.
 

HAL-01

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Why would you just assume the only games coming for the next 3 years are the ones that were announced a year ago.
Do you understand how little sense that makes
 

hyperbertha

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I'm guessing but I wouldn't be surprised if we learn that the shortages in computer hardware are more dire than the tech industry has led on resulting in a situation where Sony and Microsoft will not be able to meet demand for much longer than we figure currently. Like maybe consoles might not be readily available until 2023 instead of the vague "next year" we keep hearing.

That would severely undercut the sales of any new games that come exclusively to these new platforms. So Sony did the only logical thing and made them cross gen.

This isn't that big a deal IMO. All this new extra hardware is indeed much more powerful than last gen, but this extra power goes to supporting things that are not incredibly noticeable except the big one, rendering resolution. I've said it a million times before but Ray Tracing effects alone are incredibly demanding. You can take a last gen game such as Uncharted 4 and if they put it on PS5, made it native 4K with full RT, some people would probably be shocked to learn that there wouldn't be a lot of extra power to drive much else. The nature of graphical improvements are going to be less and less noticeable as we move along but the power needed to drive them will still be very demanding.

So, God of War Ragnarok will still be a very good looking game but on PS4 it's gonna be 1080p and have no Ray Tracing effects, and I think a lot of people will be surprised to see it doesn't look miles better on PS5 other than it being in 4K.
Im having a hard time imagining horizon 2 looking anything close to that on ps4
 

wOs

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I'm not sure that hasn't almost always been the case for consoles. Not the cross gen releases, but the full potential.
 

GhostOfTsu

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We know that in addition to people like Insomniac or ND, Guerrilla or Sony Santa Monica have been also working on multiple projects at the same time. If I remember well, Guerrilla is at least working on a game with multiplayer and Santa Monica is working at least on a new IP. And in addition to this studios, Sony also has more 1st and 2nd party studios working on more games, some of them crossgen and some other ones PS5 only.


Bullshit, with Ratchet Sony will have like half a dozen next gen only games.


No, you're the one lying. Where are the PC versions of Ratchet, Returnal, Demon's Souls or Astro?

He was right when saying that Horizon going to PC didn't mean every PS exclusive was going to PC, it is what they have been doing and the only thing they said they will do. They only ported a few PS4 old games to PC and they will port some more, but not all. Ryan said they would port more PS4 games, he didn't say they were PS5 games. They never said they will release thier games at launch on PC, and never said that will release their PS5 games on PC. They are only releasing some previous gen old ports on PC to get extra cash and extra fans.

If they release some F2P GaaS, it may be day one on PC because these games require a huge userbase because like 90% of the F2P players never pay. But that's all. In business terms, makes sense to cash the old PS4 games when still aren't too old and most gaming PC can run them, which isn't the same for games like Ratchet because only a tiny portion of PC players have a good enough GPU, SSD, etc.

So it makes sense for them to release old PS4 games while making time until there is enough amount of PC players with good enough hardware to run PS5 exclusives. So very likely they won't release PS5 only games on PC until several years in the future, probably at the end of the generation or with PS6 in the market.


Lies, lies and lies.

MLB is multiplatform because the licensor asked for it. They won't release their other Sony games on Xbox outside this IP. In fact, it's MLB who publishes it on Xbox, not Sony.

And no, they aren't forcing their first party devs. That is totally false. They have a studio under Sony Music (I don't understand why don't they move it to their gaming division) who is the one making mobile games, and now will use some PS IPs. They may open a new studio, or ask external mobile game studios to make more games if needed. They obviously won't ask ND, Insomniac, Guerrilla and so on to put their PS5 devs to work on mobile games and never said or even hinted that they will do it. And Sony will make some GaaS game (like MLB, or probably the new multiplayer IP from the former Destiny bosses) but they said that even if they will make games of all types (like multiplayer or GaaS), they will continue making big and small games, and single player narrative games will continue being their main game type.


GoWR, Horizon 2 and GT7 starter their production on 2017 or 2018. So when they made their preproduction and started to design and build these games they weren't able to have the PS5 specs because most of its technology didn't exist back then and even people like AMD didn't know how it was going to be.

They could know it was going to have faster CPU and GPU and a fast SSD. But not knowing the complete specs they couldn't make a proper budget of NPCs or polycount, to adapt their and level design around what it was able to stream, etc. These big ass AAA only were able to basically do the same than in previous gen and in the same way but with a prettier next gen version with more resolution, fps, maybe raytracing, etc. They couldn't change their workflow around a techology that still didn't exist.

Even the UE5, the first engine who seems is going to take advantage the 'full' potential of this next gen hardware, or at least will go beyond of basically just adding more resolution/fps/RT, will have its first complete version at aprox. the end of this year. And this is the biggest game engine team in the world, and working only in an engine and not in a full game too.

We know Guerrilla is working on at least another game in addition to Horizon 2, and same goes with SSM and GoWR, they have at least another game. Same goes with Bend's new IP: they started a few years later than HFW and GOWR so very likely they started knowing the PS5 specs and are building these games around them. Then there's Insomniac, who releases games super fast every year. Then there's their other 1st and 2nd party teams. So there are many other project who could have started knowing the PS5 specs and designing the games and engine around them, but not GoWR, Horizon 2 and GT7.

As Morales, Demon's Souls, Sackboy or Returnal, GoWR, Horizon 2 and GT7 will be great and will look amazing bu they won't take full advantage of the SSD speed. But others will.
Thank you for all this info but don't bother with SlimySnake. Something broke inside him since yesterday.

Maybe now the PS5 will sellout in 20 seconds instead of 15 seconds if they keep trying and Sony lose all these lunatics lol
 

CamHostage

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First of all, you can't make a game on the consoles. They are made on the PC. All graphics engines are scalable such that their features are implemented even if the current hardware can't run with said features. It's been this way in forever. You compile out to the different SKUs. Anything can be scaled back will be scaled back but the graphics engine is on a different timeline from the consoles.

It's been that way forever, but also, this is sort of the first generation of consoles that are on the same base architecture from one to another.

I'm about to say something that's oversimplified, but PS4 and PS5 are cousins in a sense other PlayStations were not. PS4 was the first to move away from custom architectures and crazy "special sauce" stuff like CELL processor and Emotion Engine to adopt a x86 processor and mostly familiar graphics card technology. (Xbox always looked more recognizable with Pentium or PowerPC processors, but there still was a lot of custom work to Xb/360. There's custom work in PS5/X-S as well, but we're firmly rooted in the modern computing era now.) From there, PS5 is the next evolution of that. Sony innovated in other ways by targeting bandwidth and power balance and the SSD, but if you wanted to know what PS5's CPU and GPU were capable of before the very first unboxing, you could just go read up because those specs were familiar already.

Building for a range of scale was becoming a thing in the PS3/PSV/PS4 era because of commonalities (even if PC and other platforms weren't part of the equation,) but now, there's almost no way to do it outside of this way. You could probably make a whole game and not even touch the hardware it'll play on until it begins QA. Most of your job is making "the game", not "the ## version of the game."

Nobody writes "to the metal" anymore. Making games for PS2 or PS1 could get really wild because you were on your own throwing whatever worked at these machines. By the time we got to a lot of PS3 productions and especially with PS4, the process of making games solidified under common technology systems and APIs. Heck, the majority of games people play these days are all on the same Unreal Engine, from next-gen consoles to their phones, and most custom engines by individual developers aren't exactly doing everything their own unique way either. Even UE5, sure, Nanite's abilities are incredible for what it's made to do, but from what I understand much of UE5 itself is already familiar from the immensely capable UE4.

If you want to create something that's never been done before in a videogame, you don't research the hardware for some new game engine code to write, you go research math and science papers to find a phenomena to bring to your project. I'm guessing developers would mostly say that the "engine" is way down the list of problems in pushing technology forward.
 
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cmon release some damn new games people are in drought loook at how we squuable with each other instead we could've been playing games!
 
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LMJ

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I and many others don't view anything shown for Ratchet and Clank as nextgen gameplay. If that's all we can expect we might as well hang up this generation now.

Isn't Forza next-gen only? Damn near all Xbox Studios are working on nextgen only games that aren’t rushed for launch.
Just what do you consider "next gen" gameplay...Is the near instant teleportation not enough, what about the ridiculously dense worlds? The dual sense functions? 3D audio? the numerous accessibility options so that MORE people (color blind, near sighted etc) can play?

Also if I'm not mistaken Spencer said for the first few years all games on Xbox would be cross gen (though he might be rethinking it after the Halo Infinity disaster)
Because cross gen games are going to hurt the design of next gen games. We won’t see true next gen games for a while, so my question is…………..why don’t you question it?

Again what constitutes TRUE next gen? graphics? enhanced gameplay? enhanced audio? new ways to play I am genuinely curious to know, not arguing that the PS4 and Xbone won't hold new games back (a laptop CPU being the main culprit) but what is "next gen" to you?
 
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phat_crazy

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Just what do you consider "next gen" gameplay...Is the near instant teleportation not enough, what about the ridiculously dense worlds? The dual sense functions? 3D audio? the numerous accessibility options so that MORE people (color blind, near sighted etc) can play?

Also if I'm not mistaken Spencer said for the first few years all games on Xbox would be cross gen (though he might be rethinking it after the Halo Infinity disaster)


Again what constitutes TRUE next gen? graphics? enhanced gameplay? enhanced audio? new ways to play I am genuinely curious to know, not arguing that the PS4 and Xbone won't hold new games back (a laptop CPU being the main culprit) but what is "next gen" to you?
Ratchet and Clank constitutes next gen. It has ideas in there that cannot be done on the PS4 with the instant dimension hopping alone. Some of the scenes we've seen also look too complicated to be done on the PS4 increasing immersion and the quality of gameplay. They might have other surprises in how they use the SSD but rather make you be wowed on your own by playing the game instead of revealing too much. It is a game that cannot be done on the PS4. That's all we want. It's only the beginning as I know they will get more and more creative in terms of how they take advantage of the SSD. Advancements in AI, physics, etc. along w/ game design innovations due to new techology and new game ideas being possible that were not possible before. Another place the SSD will shine, especially for Sony exclusives, are set pieces. There are so many opportunities to take gameplay to another level but it is up to developers to be creative enough to figure it out.
The sooner developers get to figure out exactly what the PS5 can do by making PS5 exclusives, the better. Cross gen is a major hindrance at this point.
 
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truth411

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Title - it is ridiculous that from onward into the nearest future we have only one Sony IP AAA game to be released with only PS5 in mind - Ratchet and Clank.

This is more sad when you think that to see truly next gen Gow/horizon (biggest Sony ip's) we will have to wait 4-5 years not to mention that another GT game might not come to this gen (polyphony is really taking their time). I wouldn't mind for GT7 to be whole-gen game with updates across the generation but with PS4 dragging it down it does not seems like a good idea. Imagine 5 years into the future Polyphony will have to Dlc on ps4 too.

Not to mention really disingenuous Sony marketing showing GT7 and other titles as PS5 exclusives and not mentioning PS4 versions while making fun of Xbox at the same time. Sony is becoming the Apple of gaming with its arrogance...
There is one hope.
Insomniac is working on Spiderman 2 right now, which I'm assuming that if its PS5 exclusive will try to release holiday 2022. PS5 supply issues should be sorted out by then for the most part.
Insomniac have been very clear about the advantages of not being cross gen.
 

GetemMa

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Im having a hard time imagining horizon 2 looking anything close to that on ps4
I just watched The gameplay again and I guess Im not seeing what you are seeing. It looks pretty close to the first Horizon but it has ray tracing so the lighting, rays, shadows, and fog look better /more natural. Textures are better and more detailed too, but all of this can be dialed back to accommodate PS4 without ruining the PS5 version.
 

Guilty_AI

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I just watched The gameplay again and I guess Im not seeing what you are seeing. It looks pretty close to the first Horizon but it has ray tracing so the lighting, rays, shadows, and fog look better /more natural. Textures are better and more detailed too, but all of this can be dialed back to accommodate PS4 without ruining the PS5 version.
Game will support ray tracing, but there was no ray tracing in that showcase as far as i can tell
 
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Well, key games doing cross gen are: GT7, Ragnarok and Horizon 2.

There's other big franchises which will come out which are unknown whether they will be cross gen or not. Since they havent been announced and the above are 2021-2022 games, they will likely be 2023 or later.

- Uncharted 5
- Spiderman 2
- LoU 3

Your guess if these are cross gen too, or Sony cuts the cord at that time.
 

BeardGawd

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Just what do you consider "next gen" gameplay...Is the near instant teleportation not enough, what about the ridiculously dense worlds? The dual sense functions? 3D audio? the numerous accessibility options so that MORE people (color blind, near sighted etc) can play?

Also if I'm not mistaken Spencer said for the first few years all games on Xbox would be cross gen (though he might be rethinking it after the Halo Infinity disaster)


Again what constitutes TRUE next gen? graphics? enhanced gameplay? enhanced audio? new ways to play I am genuinely curious to know, not arguing that the PS4 and Xbone won't hold new games back (a laptop CPU being the main culprit) but what is "next gen" to you?
For me it's a game with core gameplay mechanics that can't be replicated adequately on previous consoles. New and enhanced gameplay enabled by the better CPUs and Machine Learning. AI, physics, enemy counts, world interactions and scope should be a generation ahead.

Pure eye candy is nice too but it needs to be meticulously crafted and not just more of the same. I'm finding it harder to be impressed with just higher resolutions and framerates.

Something that can easily run on last gen with minor changes doesn't cut it for me.
 

CamHostage

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Ratchet and Clank constitutes next gen. It has ideas in there that cannot be done on the PS4 with the instant dimension hopping alone. Some of the scenes we've seen also look too complicated to be done on the PS4 increasing immersion and the quality of gameplay... It is a game that cannot be done on the PS4. That's all we want. It's only the beginning as I know they will get more and more creative in terms of how they take advantage of the SSD. Advancements in AI, physics, etc. along w/ game design innovations due to new techology and new game ideas being possible that were not possible before...The sooner developers get to figure out exactly what the PS5 can do by making PS5 exclusives, the better. Cross gen is a major hindrance at this point.

Okay, except Ratchet and Clank uses a lot of the technology from Spider-Man Miles Morales, which is a cross-gen game. By your eyes, it looks too complicated to have been possible downscaled onto PS4, which may be (or maybe it's just really good work by a studio that did amazing work on the launch MM but still managed to squeeze it back down onto PS4?), but they're pulling it out of their existing tech. Advancements in this game aren't necessarily due to new technology so much as using technology they are masters at even better than before with hardware to take it to the next level. Time and experimentation are what's taking so long to deliver a generation-defining next-gen experience, not some magic bullet to the head of existing technology.

"Even once you have the hardware, it still takes you months or a year for your engine to evolve into it where you know how you want to spend your frame budget, what you do on the GPU versus the CPU, all that kind of stuff..." Mike Fitzgerald, TD, Insomniac Games


As far as gameplay, the rift system is a genius gimmick for game design that's going to make for some exciting gameplay. It's a very Ratchet & Clank type of gameplay experiment. That doesn't make rift systems where levels pop on top of each other right for every game. GoW or Horizon 2 or especially GT7 wouldn't use that. So what is this SSD advantage that they are not making use of that you're imagining? What keeps these games from constituting next-gen unless they do something never-seen-before with the SSD? (Gran Turismo especially has never been about "new game ideas [that were] not possible before".) Uncharted 4 was just more Uncharted on PS4, but it was outstandingly pretty Uncharted with great traversal innovations, was that next-gen enough? Infamous Second Son had next-gen lighting, that was a big deal, but if graphics don't count, when did PS4 games constitute next-gen?

I'm with you that PS5 is technology that will be exciting to see fully exploited for all its power (and Xbox X/S too, for that matter,) but studios learn to make better games by making games, not by shutting down the factory until next-gen power is finally bottled.

(BTW, technically I can think of ways where you could do some of Rift Apart on PS4, but the techniques to do it would all either be painful compromises or ridiculous delays of game play, neither of which is worth it... but I imagine Sony and Insomniac did have a meeting at some point to ask, "If budgets became a problem, could we do it if we had to?")
 
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phat_crazy

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Okay, except Ratchet and Clank uses a lot of the technology from Spider-Man Miles Morales, which is a cross-gen game. By your eyes, it looks too complicated to have been possible downscaled onto PS4, which may be (or maybe it's just really good work by a studio that did amazing work on the launch MM but still managed to squeeze it back down onto PS4?), but they're pulling it out of their existing tech. Advancements in this game aren't necessarily due to new technology so much as using technology they are masters at even better than before with hardware to take it to the next level. Time and experimentation are what's taking so long to deliver a generation-defining next-gen experience, not some magic bullet to the head of existing technology.

"Even once you have the hardware, it still takes you months or a year for your engine to evolve into it where you know how you want to spend your frame budget, what you do on the GPU versus the CPU, all that kind of stuff..." Mike Fitzgerald, TD, Insomniac Games


As far as gameplay, the rift system is a genius gimmick for game design that's going to make for some exciting gameplay. It's a very Ratchet & Clank type of gameplay experiment. That doesn't make rift systems where levels pop on top of each other right for every game. GoW or Horizon 2 or especially GT7 wouldn't use that. So what is this SSD advantage that they are not making use of that you're imagining? What keeps these games from constituting next-gen unless they do something never-seen-before with the SSD? (Gran Turismo especially has never been about "new game ideas [that were] not possible before".) Uncharted 4 was just more Uncharted on PS4, but it was outstandingly pretty Uncharted with great traversal innovations, was that next-gen enough? Infamous Second Son had next-gen lighting, that was a big deal, but if graphics don't count, when did PS4 games constitute next-gen?

I'm with you that PS5 is technology that will be exciting to see fully exploited for all its power (and Xbox X/S too, for that matter,) but studios learn to make better games by making games, not by shutting down the factory until next-gen power is finally bottled.

(BTW, technically I can think of ways where you could do some of Rift Apart on PS4, but the techniques to do it would all either be painful compromises or ridiculous delays of game play, neither of which is worth it... but I imagine Sony and Insomniac did have a meeting at some point to ask, "If budgets became a problem, could we do it if we had to?")
Meh
I'm trying to going into Ratchet & Clank blind but yes I don't think it's possible on PS4 based on the very few scenes I've seen. It is taking advantage of the SSD in some way and we haven't had a chance to get the game to see what level Ratchet and Clank takes the PS5. I expect some clever level design ideas from Insomniac that they can't show off of course until we get surprised ourselves by playing the game. The instant shifting between worlds/world changing is not possible on a slow PS4 and that before not possible idea alone can lead to many creative level design ideas limited by Insomniac's creativity. We have only been teased with a few scenes. I'm excited. That is the point. To be able to do things not possible before on previous hardware and milking those ideas as much as possible, even if it is a single idea. Better than it being cross gen with no standout feature whatsoever even if you think it's a gimmick, which is your opinion. You have to start somewhere and the more ps5 exclusives developers get to work on the faster they master the hardware. An idea not possible before on previous hardware, which can lead to fun and interesting level design if Insomniac is creative enough, is a good start. We don't know what else they have in store for us in Ratchet and Clank. This is only the beginning.
 
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phat_crazy

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We'll get over it.
Ragnarok is the final showcase game for the PS4. Similar to God of War 2 for the PS2. Showing you can have gameplay should probably be possible on next gen hardware on last gen hardware. So it will have PS5 exclusive like scenes. Why else highly guard this game? It is going to play incredibly like a movie with really pretty graphics with the best being on the PS5. However a PS5 exclusive God of War is a Hollywood event.
 
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CamHostage

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who cares about graphics. Its gameplay limitations, why u should hate cross gen titles.

Neither you or I have played one second of Horizon 2. We've seen nothing but a cypher of the logo of God of War Ragnarok. And aside from a barren desert of Nanite wasteland, nobody has seen any game actually made of "true next-gen" technology like Unreal Engine 5. We can have a discussion about what gameplay revolutions PS5 exclusives such as Astro's Playroom, Returnal, Destruction All-Stars, and Demon's Souls bring to gaming, but I have a feeling that chat will be short...

How can we know what gameplay limitations there are to hate?

Better than it being cross gen with no standout feature whatsoever even if you think it's a gimmick, which is your opinion. You have to start somewhere and the more ps5 exclusives developers get to work on the faster they master the hardware.

Apologies if that came off wrong, I'm not using the word "gimmick" in a negative sense. It's the term for a new twist on a traditional concept, by definition "an ingenious and usually new scheme or angle". It's their novel new invention for the 14th R&C game, and they're building the whole game around it, from story to play mechanics, much as they built Deadlocked around multiplayer and All 4 One around co-op.

But again, mastering the hardware doesn't come from just exclusive work. R&C Rift Apart was able to come together so well so quickly into the lifespan of PS5 because Spider-Man on PS4 and then Spider-Man Miles Morales cross-gen helped build tech equity that they could leverage while building a game that was in concept meant to make creative, specific use of PS5 hardware.
 
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DispatchNinja

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What's even more crazy is that MS is primed to be the one to release the first truly next-gen only games. Maybe it was smart of MS to skip out the first year?

Wtf is this 😆 Microsoft said every game they make for the first 2-3 years will be playable from Xbox one to series x. Meanwhile PS5 has 3 next gen only games in like 7 months and Microsoft has zero. People sure do like to discredit those PS5 exclusives for crazy reasons though to try to even the playing field.
 
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Tschumi

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Also, isn't it an assumption to say that this means we won't see the games in full power? They were designed for PS5, with strong RT and stuff (in the case of GT7), and we were all entirely satisfied that it was a next gen game... Now as soon as it has a scaled down version coming to previous gen consoles we think it is automatically gimped? Isn't that line of reasoning kinda, against time's arrow?
 
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phat_crazy

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Apologies if that came off wrong, I'm not using the word "gimmick" in a negative sense. It's the term for a new twist on a traditional concept, by definition "an ingenious and usually new scheme or angle". It's their novel new invention for the 14th R&C game, and they're building the whole game around it, from story to play mechanics, much as they built Deadlocked around multiplayer and All 4 One around co-op.

But again, mastering the hardware doesn't come from just exclusive work. R&C Rift Apart was able to come together so quickly into the lifespan of PS5 because Spider-Man on PS4 and then Spider-Man Miles Morales cross-gen helped build tech equity that they could leverage while building a game that was in concept meant to make great use of PS5 hardware.
I'm just happy Ratchet and Clank is PS5 exclusive with all this cross gen focus. At least Insomniac is doing something. We don't have the game so we don't know how impressive Ratchet and Clank's level design, transitioning, etc. are yet but given how Insomniac won't stop talking about and teasing the game, they probably feel they are damn impressive. The SSD and the "gimmick" of instant world hopping is a good start because a simple premise can lead to complicated and interesting results, especially in the realm of level design. We don't how else Ratchet and Clank takes advantage of PS5 hardware, not necessarily only the SSD, but things such as the vastly superior CPU compared to the dumpster fire Jaguar and memory.
 
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