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The Death of PS3 Trophies

captmcblack

Member
Oct 4, 2004
18,186
0
1,470
Trophies, achievements and gamerscore suck, and have sucked since they were implemented.

While we were distracted by that shit, they took away the real free rewards and measures of prowess/skill for doing and finding cool stuff in games that had existed every year before 2005 - cheats, unlockable modes, bonus content, extra levels, etc - and turned them into paid DLC.


In 1994, we'd input a code on the character select screen for hidden characters.
In 1999, we'd run into a hidden locker in the game map to unlock new costumes.
In 2004, we'd collect all of a particular item or complete a series of sidequests to unlock ultimate weapons or a special extra mode after the completion of a game.
In 2011, we buy big head mode and an extra map or costumes as DLC that was on the disc already for $5.


lol @ us for preferring the right to pay for what we used to always have for free in exchange for a persistent list that says we beat 30 people with Ultra Combos in SSFIV.
 

Bisonian

Member
Jul 14, 2009
648
0
0
So if you care for OtherOS and the ability to install Linux on your PS3, a "niche feature that few care about", that was advertised for the system and then taken away, then you deserve to be granted proper respect and not have a bunch of trolling posts aimed in your direction.

If you care for the integrity of trophies, a "niche feature that few care about", that was advertised for the syste and then taken away, you deserve to be granted proper respect by having a line of people tee off by calling everyone fucking losers.

Seems fair. Obviously some reasons for enjoying a PS3 are much more important than others.
 

kamorra

Fuck Cancer
Jan 13, 2007
6,290
0
0
twitter.com
Bisonian said:
So if you care for OtherOS and the ability to install Linux on your PS3, a "niche feature that few care about", that was advertised for the system and then taken away, then you deserve to be granted proper respect and not have a bunch of trolling posts aimed in your direction.
There is plenty of trolling on both sides.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
May 21, 2006
17,232
3
0
Bisonian said:
If you care for the integrity of trophies, a "niche feature that few care about", that was advertised for the syste and then taken away, you deserve to be granted proper respect by having a line of people tee off by calling everyone fucking losers.

Seems fair. Obviously some reasons for enjoying a PS3 are much more important than others.
People calling others fucking losers for caring about trophies will probably be banned. No one has the right to be a dickhead to other people here.

Edit: Scanned through thread, only the first reply seemed like it was truly dismissive. There's definitely people in here insinuating that people who are concerned about the system's integrity are OCD (a few of the posts were kind of borderline) but nothing that matched what you just described in terms of direct personal insults.

Hypocrisy resolved?
 

Jinfash

needs 2 extra inches
Oct 16, 2007
13,883
3
1,205
Jinfash
Stumpokapow said:
Hypocrisy resolved?
Not until we get back the search function and smilies, popular features that a lot of members cared about, that was advertised for the site and then taken away.
 
Sep 11, 2007
9,549
0
0
I phrased it wrong.

I was talking about the people who go to all this trouble to hack and cheat for trophies, not people who just play the games and try to get them since I some what care about trophies, I was talking to the people who take it to the extreme and ruin it for everybody else.
 

ajf009

Member
Apr 26, 2010
2,397
0
0
i've got a couple platinum trophies and those things were a bitch to get. if someone can just hack the system and get every trophy for every game in seconds then they should be banned.

and to those calling people losers and whatnot for wanting and liking trophies, back off. No one judged you in here so why do you have to be a dick for no apparent reason?
 
Feb 10, 2009
4,521
0
665
I feel the same way about trophies as I do about leaderboards in games. I like them as a measure of my own progress and I like the little competition it adds when you compare your score to a friend's. This doesn't really change for me if someone I don't know cheats to make it look like they have 200 platinums, just like I don't care if someone hacks a leaderboard to make it look like the have some impossible score or k/d ratio in a game.
 

jmdajr

Member
Dec 12, 2006
59,009
1
0
Rapping Granny said:
I phrased it wrong.

I was talking about the people who go to all this trouble to hack and cheat for trophies, not people who just play the games and try to get them since I some what care about trophies, I was talking to the people who take it to the extreme and ruin it for everybody else.
Well at least you explained yourself. Granted some people do share the feelings of your previous post as is.
 

BigBadShamoo

Banned
Sep 20, 2009
1,303
0
0
NY, Long Island
Banning people cuz of trophies? Shit's ridiculous. LOL. The only thing I even use the trophies for is to see what type of games a user enjoys. I don't care what they unlocked.
 

angelfly

Member
Sep 16, 2006
8,519
0
0
Massachusetts
steamcommunity.com
Rapping Granny said:
I phrased it wrong.

I was talking about the people who go to all this trouble to hack and cheat for trophies, not people who just play the games and try to get them since I some what care about trophies, I was talking to the people who take it to the extreme and ruin it for everybody else.
How exactly is it ruining it for everyone else? I thought they were there to extend gameplay and give you something extra to do while playing or after you've finished the game. Someone else hacking their trophies doesn't affect me in the slightest.
 

RoadHazard

Member
Dec 9, 2008
18,715
941
1,095
Gothenburg, Sweden
electroshockwave said:
I like them as a measure of my own progress and I like the little competition it adds when you compare your score to a friend's. This doesn't really change for me if someone I don't know cheats to make it look like they have 200 platinums
This. I very rarely look at the trophies of people I don't know anyway, I only care (a bit) about comparing my progress in games with that of my friends. If one of them decides to cheat I'm guessing it's going to be relatively easy to tell, so whatever.

I do, however, absolutely hate the fact that CFW on the PS3 will be used for cheating at all. With trophies, in online games (unless Sony can detect that and ban), etc. I guess I just want to keep my PSN experience "pure".

I've also some to realize that CFW is pretty much pointess. Emulators? I can run them on my PC, with much less trouble. Media center? I can run one on my PC (which has a HDMI wire running to my TV), with much less trouble. Etc., etc.
 

jmdajr

Member
Dec 12, 2006
59,009
1
0
captmcblack said:
Trophies, achievements and gamerscore suck, and have sucked since they were implemented.

While we were distracted by that shit, they took away the real free rewards and measures of prowess/skill for doing and finding cool stuff in games that had existed every year before 2005 - cheats, unlockable modes, bonus content, extra levels, etc - and turned them into paid DLC.


In 1994, we'd input a code on the character select screen for hidden characters.
In 1999, we'd run into a hidden locker in the game map to unlock new costumes.
In 2004, we'd collect all of a particular item or complete a series of sidequests to unlock ultimate weapons or a special extra mode after the completion of a game.
In 2011, we buy big head mode and an extra map or costumes as DLC that was on the disc already for $5.


lol @ us for preferring the right to pay for what we used to always have for free in exchange for a persistent list that says we beat 30 people with Ultra Combos in SSFIV.
You're blaming dlc on trophies and achievements? I think we would have dlc regardless. Trophies and Achievements are just an extra incentive for people to buy them. You don't have to bite. And what do extra costumes and horse armor have to do with achievements anyway?
 

Momo

Banned
Aug 10, 2009
4,454
0
0
angelfly said:
How exactly is it ruining it for everyone else?
Some rewards program and competitive trophy hunting I think.

I'm not sure, I've never really been very into trophies but know folk who are.
 

angelfly

Member
Sep 16, 2006
8,519
0
0
Massachusetts
steamcommunity.com
Momo said:
Some rewards program and competitive trophy hunting I think.

I'm not sure, I've never really been very into trophies but know folk who are.
I just don't see any difference between hacking trophies and groups that get together to farm trophies in games which seems to be perfectly fine with the same people complaining. AFAIK The rewards program was something that was pitched in a survey like PSN+ but I've never heard them actually say it was coming.
 

BobsRevenge

I do not avoid women, GAF, but I do deny them my essence.
Oct 14, 2007
12,906
0
0
BigBadShamoo said:
I fail to see how this effects one's personal enjoyment of a game. Trophies were shallow experiences anyway, this just prooves it lol.
Seriously. If this changes what you think about trophies, than you weren't thinking about them right in the first place.
RotBot said:
I'd have all trophies and achievements abolished forever to get portable gamesaves back.
Yup, in a second.
 

Momo

Banned
Aug 10, 2009
4,454
0
0
angelfly said:
I just don't see any difference between hacking trophies and groups that get together to farm trophies in games which seems to be perfectly fine with the same people complaining. AFAIK The rewards program was something that was pitched in a survey but I've never head them actually say it was coming.
You're asking the wrong guy =P I can see a sense of invalidation setting upon people who struggled to achieve platinums and such before, now they can't simply be "hey I got 17 plats" without getting suspicious looks from fellow "trophy hunters".

Your guess is as good as mine wrt how they feel about farmers, I've never been terribly into this aspect of gaming.

We shouldn't dismiss anyone's gripes because our own sense of values are different than theirs though.
 

Trevelyon

Member
Jun 8, 2004
6,366
0
0
angelfly said:
I just don't see any difference between hacking trophies and groups that get together to farm trophies in games which seems to be perfectly fine with the same people complaining.
I guess one requires a momentary piece of data entry for an entire trophy list whereas the other is just dedicated and passionate communities coming together to slightly hasten perhaps lengthy and grindy online aspects of certain trophy lists, the rest of the game's trophies are still there to get by ones self.
 

captmcblack

Member
Oct 4, 2004
18,186
0
1,470
jmdajr said:
Your blaming dlc on trophies and achievements? I think we would have dlc regardless. Trophies and Achievements are just an extra incentive really for people to buy them. You don't have to bite. And what do extra costumes and horse armor have to do with achievements anyway?

I'm not blaming anything on anything.

What I am saying is that DLC is the literal monetization of things we got for free for 25 years. Extra costumes, extra items, extra modes, extra maps, extra colors, etc...these are things that you got for free on consoles through roughly 2005 - no exceptions. You used to get those extras for doing stuff in the game that required skill (sidequests, beating every boss with zero damage, perfects in every round, beating the game in a certain amount of time, etc), or for having certain knowledge of the game that isn't disclosed obviously (secret codes, etc).

Come 2005, we no longer got those things for free. However, in exchange for not getting real gameplay-impacting stuff for free, we got gamerscore/trophies/achievements instead. You unlocked achievements instead of extra costumes/items/modes/maps/colors/etc. Those achievements have zero impact on gameplay, and they are used as the proof of skill or game knowledge in the same way the old-school unlocks, cheats, easter eggs and bonuses were. We can still get the stuff that actually impacts gameplay though...we just have to pay money for it now, whereas achievements and such are free.

Do we still have extra content/cheats/etc in games for free? Of course we do, but not nearly as much as we did before DLC and microtransactions became the new normal. That's because we voted with our dollars - and we stated overwhelmingly that we love to pay money for shit we used to get free.

Would we have DLC regardless? Of course we would. But if we still received substantial amounts of gameplay-impacting game content for free, the developers would have to provide more valuable things for our money. It'd be like the PC; when you buy DLC on PC, you get almost entire new games for the cost (or at least you used to; perhaps this is different now). I know for sure you wouldn't be able to get away with selling DLC that simply unlocks content that exists on the disc, that's for sure.
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
Jul 30, 2009
73,802
7
1,030
Western Australia
captmcblack said:
Trophies, achievements and gamerscore suck, and have sucked since they were implemented.

While we were distracted by that shit, they took away the real free rewards and measures of prowess/skill for doing and finding cool stuff in games that had existed every year before 2005 - cheats, unlockable modes, bonus content, extra levels, etc - and turned them into paid DLC.


In 1994, we'd input a code on the character select screen for hidden characters.
In 1999, we'd run into a hidden locker in the game map to unlock new costumes.
In 2004, we'd collect all of a particular item or complete a series of sidequests to unlock ultimate weapons or a special extra mode after the completion of a game.
In 2011, we buy big head mode and an extra map or costumes as DLC that was on the disc already for $5.


lol @ us for preferring the right to pay for what we used to always have for free in exchange for a persistent list that says we beat 30 people with Ultra Combos in SSFIV.
Sure, if you only play Capcom games. ;)
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
May 21, 2006
17,232
3
0
captmcblack said:
I'm not blaming anything on anything.

What I am saying is that DLC is the literal monetization of things we got for free for 25 years. Extra costumes, extra items, extra modes, extra maps, extra colors, etc...these are things that you got for free on consoles through roughly 2005 - no exceptions. You used to get those extras for doing stuff in the game that required skill (sidequests, beating every boss with zero damage, perfects in every round, beating the game in a certain amount of time, etc), or for having certain knowledge of the game that isn't disclosed obviously (secret codes, etc).

Come 2005, we no longer got those things for free. However, in exchange for not getting real gameplay-impacting stuff for free, we got gamerscore/trophies/achievements instead. You unlocked achievements instead of extra costumes/items/modes/maps/colors/etc. Those achievements have zero impact on gameplay, and they are used as the proof of skill or game knowledge in the same way the old-school unlocks, cheats, easter eggs and bonuses were. We can still get the stuff that actually impacts gameplay though...we just have to pay money for it now, whereas achievements and such are free.

Would we have DLC regardless? Of course we would. But if we still received substantial amounts of gameplay-impacting game content for free, the developers would have to provide more valuable things for our money. It'd be like the PC; when you buy DLC on PC, you get almost entire new games for the cost (or at least you used to; perhaps this is different now). I know for sure you wouldn't be able to get away with selling DLC that simply unlocks content that exists on the disc, that's for sure.
Of course, it's also the case that ballooning budgets caused the need for this secondary monetization (and in-game ads and and and and). If content production prices were what they were last gen, it's quite likely we'd still have unlockable costumes. When it takes a team of 200 2 years to make a game versus a team of 60-80 8 months, any corner that can be cut in terms of extra bonus tidbits and content will be--or if that extra stuff is produced, it's expected to justify its production cost. There are definitely pieces of DLC that are more cynical and pieces that are less, but on the whole it was a pretty logical growth in my mind.
 

darkwing

Member
Sep 11, 2009
25,703
0
705
www.pinoyps.com
angelfly said:
I just don't see any difference between hacking trophies and groups that get together to farm trophies in games which seems to be perfectly fine with the same people complaining. AFAIK The rewards program was something that was pitched in a survey like PSN+ but I've never heard them actually say it was coming.
i guess you are not in the Playstation Rewards Beta then, but you are right, it may not be coming after all after this lol
 

Mako_Drug

Member
Jul 27, 2009
645
0
0
Australia
captmcblack said:
Would we have DLC regardless? Of course we would. But if we still received substantial amounts of gameplay-impacting game content for free, the developers would have to provide more valuable things for our money. It'd be like the PC; when you buy DLC on PC, you get almost entire new games for the cost (or at least you used to; perhaps this is different now). I know for sure you wouldn't be able to get away with selling DLC that simply unlocks content that exists on the disc, that's for sure.
That...that never happened. o_O fff...fffrreee????
 

Dunlop

Member
Oct 2, 2007
10,961
3
965
captmcblack said:
I'm not blaming anything on anything.

What I am saying is that DLC is the literal monetization of things we got for free for 25 years.
25 years ago game development did not cost the same as a blockbuster movie. The business model has evolved, if this was possible 25 years ago it would have been done.

I do realize that the point of your arguments is to continue to paint CFW in a good light no matter what the situation or hacks that will come out because of it.

Regarless of whether this is important to you (it is definately not to me), there are people who have invested tons of time in leveling their trophies, so this news if true will definately suck for them.
 

AndyD

aka andydumi
Jan 24, 2007
19,100
0
0
Nashville, USA
darkwing said:
i guess you are not in the Playstation Rewards Beta then, but you are right, it may not be coming after all after this lol
I wanted to say the same. Its going to turn into a program where you are rewarded for buying stuff on PSN and Home instead of playing games.

They already cut back on the rewards you get from trophy earning once.
 

captmcblack

Member
Oct 4, 2004
18,186
0
1,470
Stumpokapow said:
Of course, it's also the case that ballooning budgets caused the need for this secondary monetization (and in-game ads and and and and). If content production prices were what they were last gen, it's quite likely we'd still have unlockable costumes. When it takes a team of 200 2 years to make a game versus a team of 60-80 8 months, any corner that can be cut in terms of extra bonus tidbits and content will be--or if that extra stuff is produced, it's expected to justify its production cost. There are definitely pieces of DLC that are more cynical and pieces that are less, but on the whole it was a pretty logical growth in my mind.
Yeah, I get that...but you figure that there is only so much that is acceptable, you know? In this gen alone we've seen people put 2-player mode/multiplayer as DLC (RE5), paid bonus DLC that locked out multiplayer/MP beta (or whatever it was) for people for a month (Bad Company 2), and similarly nefarious things.

At what point do we go "okay guys, we get it - you'd charge for anything if you could" and start being like "fuck that"? I'm not advocating that people go hungry or lose jobs so that I can have my alternate Blanka costume for free, but still...damn, this gen.

Dunlop said:
25 years ago game development did not cost the same as a blockbuster movie. The business model has evolved, if this was possible 25 years ago it would have been done.

I do realize that the point of your arguments is to continue to paint CFW in a good light no matter what the situation or hacks that will come out because of it.

Regarless of whether this is important to you (it is definately not to me), there are people who have invested tons of time in leveling their trophies, so this news if true will definately suck for them.
Dude, I didn't even mention anything re: CFW. My comments about DLC vs. trophies vs. what we got before 2005 have absolutely nothing to do with CFW, hacking/cheating, or my opinions on those things. My issues with DLC vs. trophies vs. what we got before 2005 have everything to do with the idea of paying now for stuff we got for free for the entirety of gaming history before this gen.
 

NHale

Member
Mar 3, 2009
5,291
0
0
I guess people don't know about Modern Warfare 2, InFamous, FIFA 10, FUEL (+ a lot more) trophy exploits, where you can download a save and unlock trophies without doing anything.

But the best one is SOCOM: Confrontation where you can unlock ALL the trophies in one minute and this is a Platinum that everyone says it's very time consuming. A bunch of people used that exploit but they were never banned by Sony even with the timestamps showing that they unlocked everything in less than 1 minute.

Trophies didn't died with this "Trophy Unlocker" because they were already "dead"...
 

AndyD

aka andydumi
Jan 24, 2007
19,100
0
0
Nashville, USA
angelfly said:
What are they giving away based on trophies?
For now they are testing with themes, avatars and all electronic rewards. They are not giving a lot away in beta because they do not want to piss people off who are not in it.

They are tweaking the levels of what earns you how much. Gameplay, trophies, Home activity, downloading various things from PSN (Qore, Pulse, Demos...) and buying stuff all add to your level of rewards.

So this can simply eliminate trophies as a measurement that adds to your level.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
May 21, 2006
17,232
3
0
captmcblack said:
Yeah, I get that...but you figure that there is only so much that is acceptable, you know? In this gen alone we've seen people put 2-player mode/multiplayer as DLC (RE5), paid bonus DLC that locked out multiplayer/MP beta (or whatever it was) for people for a month (Bad Company 2), and similarly nefarious things.

At what point do we go "okay guys, we get it - you'd charge for anything if you could" and start being like "fuck that"? I'm not advocating that people go hungry or lose jobs so that I can have my alternate Blanka costume for free, but still...damn, this gen.
Well I'm on your side to an extent.

I'd rather more smaller budget games be made and companies bite off as much as they can chew rather than gambling by biting off far more and hoping it succeeds.

I think the pre-order "bonuses" are terrible and I really hope the retailer-publisher complex is smashed up soon because it encourages the polarization of stuff into AAA-or-bust.

I've been saying "fuck that" for most of the generation. I rarely buy DLC that doesn't seem like real additions (I've bought Borderlands / Fable 2 / Fallout 3 / Mass Effect / Mass Effect 2 / Ticket to Ride DLC, and there's probably a few more I'd be willing to buy). I don't buy OMG HYPED AAA FPS games at launch; I'm just starting CoD MW now, I played Halo 3 a few years after release, etc. The fact that I own every console and every portable and a gaming PC and a Mac and I'm not a big fan of multiplayer FPS games or tournament fighters helps me a lot because I always have an escape route and I never feel like I'm missing out from not playing some of this stuff.
 

Dreamgazer

Member
Nov 27, 2008
6,441
0
0
#Animecentral/IRC
NHale said:
I guess people didn't hear about the Modern Warfare 2, InFamous, FIFA 10 or FUEL trophy exploits, where you can download a save and unlock trophies without doing anything. So yes, only now is this a problem...

But the best one is SOCOM: Confrontation where you can unlock ALL the trophies in one minute and this is a Platinum that everyone says it's very time consuming. A bunch of people used that exploit but they were never banned by Sony even with the timestamps showing that they unlocked everything in less than 1 minute.

So Trophies are "dead" a long time ago...
Yes, with only a handful of games with trophy exploits (<20) - trophies must have been "dead" a long time ago.

I guess that makes a lot of things dead, doesn't it?
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Jun 7, 2004
85,523
3
0
angelfly said:
How exactly is it ruining it for everyone else? I thought they were there to extend gameplay and give you something extra to do while playing or after you've finished the game. Someone else hacking their trophies doesn't affect me in the slightest.
Sony even agrees that it ruins it for everyone. The reason that the PSP never got trophy support was due to the system being hacked. Sony realized that it would be pointless to implement that system because you'd have people faking their trophy list.
 

darkwing

Member
Sep 11, 2009
25,703
0
705
www.pinoyps.com
SolidSnakex said:
Sony even agrees that it ruins it for everyone. The reason that the PSP never got trophy support was due to the system being hacked. Sony realized that it would be pointless to implement that system because you'd have people faking their trophy list.
i guess you can add PS3 to that, lets just hope PS4/PSN2 is more secure
 

Trevelyon

Member
Jun 8, 2004
6,366
0
0
NHale said:
I guess people don't know about Modern Warfare 2, InFamous, FIFA 10, FUEL (+ a lot more) trophy exploits, where you can download a save and unlock trophies without doing anything.
Difference being, cheap asses using exploits and save transfers have timestamps to contend with, and they can be shunned accordingly and dropped from friend lists. With the homebrew they can manipulate those where they please, so if they are discreet and somewhat caluclated
they could certainly evade any unwanted attention, if of course Sony can't do something about them first.
 

watership

Member
Sep 6, 2006
10,910
0
0
Toronto, ON
Jinfash said:
Not until we get back the search function and smilies, popular features that a lot of members cared about, that was advertised for the site and then taken away.
Smilies are gone? (looks)

This is the best day ever.
 

turnbuckle

Member
Dec 5, 2008
8,045
2
920
38
Kalamazoo, MI
Trophies can be fun for challenging yourself to do things in the game (though some are too stupid to bother). I don't know how many I have nor do I care how many someone else has. If this exploit makes those who choose to take advantage of it feel better about themselves then I'm fine with it.