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[Phediuk]

Let's try this again.

http://thebaffler.com/blog/kriss-ho-hum-squad

Some time in April 2015, Jared Leto sent someone to throw a dead pig on a table during the rehearsals for Suicide Squad. Those who were present at the time recount their shock and fear beholding the scene, their worry that they might be working with someone who was genuinely crazy. This is bullshit. It’s marketing patter, nothing more: their immediate reaction to having a dead pig plonked down in front of them was almost certainly exactly what yours or mine would be: an immediate, wretched boredom.

This was the first in a series of increasingly desperate pranks Jared Leto would go on to perpetrate on the film’s cast and crew—mailing them used condoms and anal beads, presenting them with dead rats and live snakes, and never once breaking character, on or off the set. In a film that takes pains to remind everyone at every stage how twisted and fucked up it is, Leto was playing the most twisted and fucked-up figure possible: the Joker, a comic-book caricature that, thanks mostly to Heath Ledger, has come to function as a grand symbol of anarchic, nihilist evil. The Joker is the laugh radiating out the heart of the black hole—the dianoetic laugh that gorges itself on all the misery of existence. The pure evil of this supervillain who wants nothing more than to watch the world burn is dedicated to what Samuel Beckett called the “saluting of the highest joke” and registers its force with a cackle of full diabolical evil.

Our society is obsessed with diabolical evil—in any big-budget film, Suicide Squad included, the villain’s plan can never be anything less that the willful extermination of humanity. And diabolical evil might exist. But it’s as if all of Jared Leto’s stupid and boring antics were actually performing a devastating critique of the film he was working on. Unwittingly (for when can it ever be said that Jared Leto has possessed genuine wit?), he’s shown us that, however twisted and fucked up we imagine diabolical evil to be, its representation is only ever deeply annoying.

. . .

Great piece. Nice to see some actual cultural criticism of a comic book movie rather than just "you should see it/not see it". It really is insidious how Hollywood encourages passivity and resignation in its audiences; they've conditioned you to just accept the shit that's thrown at you, because it's not as bad as the the worst-case scenario. To reviewers' credit, they at least seem to have shown some resistance to the utter vapidity of Suicide Squad, so maybe we're on the verge of a change? Or maybe I'm being too optimistic. I do feel, though, that there are some important political parallels to be drawn between the political malaise of 2016 (i.e., shitty Trump versus not-quite-as-shitty Clinton) and the box-office malaise of 2016 (watch a shitty sequel or another not-as-shitty sequel; either way, it's the same shit as what's come before.) We're due for a major correction on both fronts, a fact that can be observed in the unpopularity of both presidential candidates and the increasing number of box-office bombs and the increasing failure of the Hollywood blockbuster machine (just look how many bombs there are this year.)

 

[NastyBook]

I wanted to quote the guy who said he had never been up somebody's ass this hard before in the other thread. ;_;

Spoiler

LMFAO!

But yeah, this thing reads like he ripped a massive fart into a wine glass, and then inhaled the entire thing before writing this.

 

[The Technomancer]

I mean

When you're going to go into contemporary politics

My attitude these days is increasingly "okay so say what should actually be done"

okay so Clinton and Trump are parts of the same malaise, lets say I buy your conclusion. And...what do we do? That's not me being "we're powerless and there's no point", that's me wanting the author to take an actual stand and not just speak vaguely about how "bad" everything is on both sides

 

[Ahasverus]

No, it's not a great piece, it's a nonsense article about Suicide Squad being Hillary Clinton Part that you conveniently left out, with it being the central premise), nice to see you trying again after the last closing though.

 

[heliosRAzi]

We're supposed to be rooting for the lesser evil. That's the whole point of having villains.

 

[GringoSuave89]

Let's try this again.

Let's not.

Poorly written article, a totally wtf point, and it's just... like, what?

 

[Phediuk]

No, it's not a great piece, it's a nonsense article about Suicide Squad being Hillary Clinton Part that you conveniently left out, with it being the central premise), nice to see you trying again after the last closing though.

I didn't leave that out, I discussed that in my comments below it.

 

[wesleyshark]

This thread was a mistake.

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

When did HA Goodman start writing movie articles?

 

[Phediuk]

I mean

When you're going to go into contemporary politics

My attitude these days is increasingly "okay so say what should actually be done"

okay so Clinton and Trump are parts of the same malaise, lets say I buy your conclusion. And...what do we do? That's not me being "we're powerless and there's no point", that's me wanting the author to take an actual stand and not just speak vaguely about how "bad" everything is on both sides

See, this attitude is just a symptom of exactly the problem the article talks about, though. We're encouraged to shoot down any criticism of the status quo because things could be worse. So what if the critic doesn't know how to snap their fingers and fix things? Most problems exist precisely because no one's thought how to fix them; the first step toward a solution is to identify the problem in the first place.

 

[hawk2025]

That was terrible.

The shallowest of social critique.

 

[Phediuk]

We're supposed to be rooting for the lesser evil. That's the whole point of having villains.

The author knows that's the point. But his point is that that's a bad point.

 

[Kibbles]

People really overstate his antics. Plus it wasn't even much, people just keep re-reporting about how he sent gifts in character. He sent a lot of nice, normal, thoughtful gifts as well. They've all said great things about how it helped them. They've gotten their shit signed by Jared later on even. The rest of the cast has teased about their own X-rated antics on set they can't talk about. Stop feigning outrage for the cast when you don't even know them.

 

[Phediuk]

People really overstate his antics, which were about as tame as the rest of the cast's antics on set. Plus it wasn't even much, people just keep re-reporting about how he sent gifts in character. He sent a lot of nice, normal, thoughtful gifts as well. They've all said great things about how it helped them. They've gotten their shit signed by Jared later on even. Stop feigning outrage for the cast when you don't even know them.

Okay, but the author is well aware of that, and thinks the whole thing was a publicity stunt from the studio ("marketing patter", in his words.)

 

[heliosRAzi]

The author knows that's the point. But his point is that that's a bad point.

And his is a dumb point.

 

[Phediuk]

I wanted to quote the guy who said he had never been up somebody's ass this hard before in the other thread. ;_;

Spoiler

LMFAO!

But yeah, this thing reads like he ripped a massive fart into a wine glass, and then inhaled the entire thing before writing this.

Really? Where do you get that from? As far as I can see, the author doesn't mention himself at any point.

 

[guek]

That was terrible, what the hell. Of all the ways to critique Suicide Squad, using it as a political allegory is definitely one of the worst. The movie isn't good enough for something like that to begin with.

Looking at tripe and trying to find deep meaning is a pointless affair.

 

[FairyD]

This feels like the author couldn't decide if he wanted to write an article criticizing Suicide Squad or the current election so they did both and mashed it all together.

 

[Phediuk]

That was terrible, what the hell. Of all the ways to critique Suicide Squad, using it as a political allegory is definitely one of the worst.

Consumer media is political. It's all caught up in the web of capitalist production (production>advertising>consumption>profit>more production, and so on) designed to keep you consuming. A movie's message doesn't exist in a vacuum, it's an after-effect of the system that produced it, which becomes all the more pronounced when you get into big-budget, major-studio films. Hence the ridiculously messy and troubled production of Suicide Squad, and its accordant, muddled (shitty) message.

 

[Strictly]

The biggest crime that Leto's Joker commits is that there is no defining laugh. From Romero to Hamill and ending with Ledger there was that special defining laugh special to their own interpretation. What does Leto give us? That's right i can't even recall as it was that forgettable.

I will never forget Ledger's howls.

 

[Phediuk]

This feels like the author couldn't decide if he wanted to write an article criticizing Suicide Squad or the current election so they did both and mashed it all together.

Fair enough, though. When the two biggest news stories are an election and the release of a movie, both of them curated by the same media machine, they're ripe for a juxtaposition. The medium is the message, and all that.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Consumer media is political. It's all caught up in the web of capitalist production (production>advertising>consumption>profit>more production, and so on) designed to keep you consuming. A movie's message doesn't exist in a vacuum, it's an after-effect of the system that produced it, which becomes all the more pronounced when you get into big-budget, major-studio films. Hence the ridiculously messy and troubled production of Suicide Squad, and its accordant, muddled (shitty) message.

... oh man

Fair enough, though. When the two biggest news stories are an election and the release of a movie, both of them curated by the same media machine, they're ripe for a juxtaposition. The medium is the message, and all that.

Suicide Squad is not even close to being the biggest news story.. At all.

 

[hawk2025]

This feels like the author couldn't decide if he wanted to write an article criticizing Suicide Squad or the current election so they did both and mashed it all together.

Throw in some Kant, and you've got a stew goin'!

 

[Pai Pai Master]

This is some faux-enlightened BS lol

 

[RedStep]

Consumer media is political. It's all caught up in the web of capitalist production (production>advertising>consumption>profit>more production, and so on) designed to keep you consuming. A movie's message doesn't exist in a vacuum, it's an after-effect of the system that produced it, which becomes all the more pronounced when you get into big-budget, major-studio films. Hence the ridiculously messy and troubled production of Suicide Squad, and its accordant, muddled (shitty) message.

Nonsense. A movie is written by a screenwriter, produced by a producer, directed by a director, and facilitated by a ton of actors and crew. There's no overarching "message" being pushed by one movie studio, much less all of "Hollywood" combined. Each one does their own thing. Yes, a studio has to sign off and promote the thing, but that's as far as it goes. Screenwriters churning out their next story in their home aren't all aligning with each other. Trying to turn it into something it's not (ie this entire article) is just an exercise in literary masturbation. A lot of people think Suicide Squad is bad, but it will do pretty well. A lot of people think Star Trek Beyond is good, but it's tanking. There's no "correction" going on, just the normal ebb and flow of movies and audiences.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

I always saw the Leto set antics as some irrelevant topic media outlets like Entertainment Tonight would play up to fill a 22 minute show with.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

His Shenanigans just don't match what was on screen. He wasn't a crazy clown in the movie, he was a goth gangster.

 

[Phediuk]

Nonsense. A movie is written by a screenwriter, produced by a producer, directed by a director, and facilitated by a ton of actors and crew. There's no overarching "message" being pushed by one movie studio, much less all of "Hollywood" combined. Each one does their own thing. Yes, a studio has to sign off and promote the thing, but that's as far as it goes. Screenwriters churning out their next story in their home aren't all aligning with each other. Trying to turn it into something it's not (ie this entire article) is just an exercise in literary masturbation. A lot of people think Suicide Squad is bad, but it will do pretty well. A lot of people think Star Trek Beyond is good, but it's tanking. There's no "correction" going on, just the normal ebb and flow of movies and audiences.

Multiple people being involved on a project doesn't negate the movie's message at all; the message is produced by a system, i.e., the aggregate of many people, all collaborating to make a product that will sell. No one has to "align" with each other, nor does "the studio" (a curious mystification here) have to approach the film with a conscious message; in fact, why would they? The studio just wants to make money, and the message that arises will be the after-effect of the search for profit. That is what it means for a movie to have a "message", and that's as worthy of discussion as anything. If the world is riven by the pursuit of the almighty dollar, then it''s wise to analyze what the product of that pursuit is.

 

[Window]

"yes, Hillary Clinton spread fire and death over the Middle East; yes, she represents the worst excesses of financial vampirism; but she’s a human being, she has her flaws."

...What? This piece seems to be using Suicide Squad to launch into the old rhetoric of how this election cycle has become a case of choosing between the lesser of two evils and how damning it is we are ready to accept that.

Multiple people being involved on a project doesn't negate the movie's message at all; the message is produced by a system, i.e., the aggregate of many people, all collaborating to make a product that will sell. No one has to "align" with each other, nor does "the studio" (a curious mystification here) have to approach the film with a conscious message; in fact, why would they? The studio just wants to make money, and the message that arises will be the after-effect of the search for profit. That is what it means for a movie to have a "message", and that's as worthy of discussion as anything. If the world is riven by the pursuit of the almighty dollar, then it''s wise to analyze what the product of that pursuit is.

The film with the most dollars in the bank in the US this year has been Finding Dory. What are implications of its success on the election cycle?

 

[Phediuk]

I always saw the Leto set antics as some irrelevant topic media outlets like Entertainment Tonight would play up to fill a 22 minute show with.

Yep, it's the classic fodder for magazines Variety and Empire and the usual slate of TV talk shows. Anything that gets the movie attention is a good thing, so if banal tryhard antics get it, he'll do it.

 

[Htown]

This is some faux-enlightened BS lol

haha yep

BTW, from the Baffler's FAQ page

Q: Do you have a mission statement or something?

A: Nah, nothing so fancy as a mission statement, but our motto has always been “the journal that blunts the cutting edge”—which means, we suppose, that we jab at consensus thinking in all its nauseating ooze. If you really want to read about our quarter-century history of bloody engagements with the brands, icons, and pet ideologies of contemporary America, just click on over to our About page. There’s a video.

 

[CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls]

This is an awful, awful, awful comparison piece between a failed studio tentpole and...the fucking election.

 

[Big-E]

Just want to say I always roll my eyes at actors who have to `transform`themselves to get into the role and never break character. Such a pretentious thing.

 

[Phediuk]

Just want to say I always roll my eyes at actors who have to `transform`themselves to get into the role and never break character. Such a pretentious thing.

I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. Like, Daniel Day-Lewis in My Left Foot; that's a role that took some real dedication, it was a passion project. He actually lived like he was paralyzed for months straight, and as a result, his performance in the movie is completely believable.

The whole Leto-as-Joker thing is method acting taken into the realm of farce. It's become little more than a gimmick, a bullet point on a media package that he can banter about for a few minutes on Jimmy Fallon or whatever.

 

[JaggedSac]

I don't agree with your assertion that the results of this election year has been based on malaise. In fact I would argue the opposite. The fact that Bernie and Trump were able to garner as much support as they did when they were at the far left and right. Any other year we would be voting for two middle of the road dems and reps. There is unrest in the populace and the huge shakeup in the republican party is testament to that. The dems had a decent shakeup, dragging Hilary to the left a little more. Two populist movements are taking place and it will be interesting to see the outcome.

 

[NastyBook]

Really? Where do you get that from? As far as I can see, the author doesn't mention himself at any point.

Which are part of my post are you referring to?

 

[Futureman]

Okay, but the author is well aware of that, and thinks the whole thing was a publicity stunt from the studio ("marketing patter", in his words.)

people thought all that stuff wasn't a marketing stunt?

 

[Fury451]

This is an awful, awful, awful comparison piece between a failed studio tentpole and...the fucking election.

Yep.

But ignoring the weird article, and focusing on Leto- seeing him in the video Purple Lamborghini destroyed any shred of remaining credibility his interpretation of Joker had left after Suicide Squad.

For me, I've seen enough to know it just doesn't work for me at all, even if he had a lot of cut scenes.

 

[Phediuk]

people thought all that stuff wasn't a marketing stunt?

The point is somewhat obvious for anyone who's been paying attention to the production of this movie (though, remember, most people haven't), which is why he gets it out of the way early in the article.

 

[Kibbles]

Yep.

But ignoring the weird article, and focusing on Leto- seeing him in the video Purple Lamborghini destroyed any shred of remaining credibility his interpretation of Joker had left after Suicide Squad.

For me, I've seen enough to know it just doesn't work for me at all, even if he had a lot of cut scenes.

I dont really know what your problem is with the vid but I don't think that's fair, dude was probably forced to do that low budget video from the studio. It's ridiculous and any Joker would look ridiculous in that video. He's said he doesn't want to mix his music and film stuff and while this isn't his music I can imagine he feels the same.

 

[Fury451]

I dont really know what your problem is with the vid but I don't think that's fair, dude was probably forced to do that low budget video from the studio. It's ridiculous and any Joker would look ridiculous in that video. He's said he doesn't want to mix his music and film stuff and while this isn't his music I can imagine he feels the same.

It was corny, and made him seem non-threatening. I already found his portrayal corny, and the video just reinforced that. Maybe it was forced, but then that speaks to WB again having no idea how to properly utilize and market their own properties because putting the Joker- who isn't even a key feature of the film (but of course was in all the marketing) in a Skrillex/Rick Ross video is the fastest way to undermine what was supposed to be an intense take on the character.

 

[Toxi]

This is the most bizarre tangent into US politics I've ever seen a movie critique take.

 

[Ridley327]

This is the most bizarre tangent into US politics I've ever seen a movie critique take.

Armond White managed to write an article for the New Yorker that drew a parallel between Obama and the notorious C. Thomas Howell-in-blackface comedy, Soul Man in the wake of his first election win.

 

[Kibbles]

Speaking of that video,
"The Joker jumps up to the front of the boat and does the Titanic stance on the front of the boat. We’re coming up to the bridge and he just falls onto his back and lets the bridge go right over his face as we passed underneath. He was crazy, he kept us on our toes for the entire shoot.”
“Purple Lamborghini” director Colin Tilley on working with Jared Leto - http://nesthq.com/interview-colin-tilley-purple-lamborghini/
Where the footage tho? >_>

 

[CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls]

Speaking of that video,
"The Joker jumps up to the front of the boat and does the Titanic stance on the front of the boat. We’re coming up to the bridge and he just falls onto his back and lets the bridge go right over his face as we passed underneath. He was crazy, he kept us on our toes for the entire shoot.”
“Purple Lamborghini” director Colin Tilley on working with Jared Leto - http://nesthq.com/interview-colin-tilley-purple-lamborghini/
Where the footage tho? >_>

2edgy4me

 

[Fury451]

Armond White managed to write an article for the New Yorker that drew a parallel between Obama and the notorious C. Thomas Howell-in-blackface comedy, Soul Man in the wake of his first election win.

Yeah but White disappeared into character like two decades ago and nobody can touch his ability to be effortlessly contrarian

 

[J2 Cool]

Great piece

No.

This is pretty unresearched speculation. He didn't write "damaged", that was a collaborative effort with costuming. This review sounds like he just wanted to shit on Leto, and blame the film's failure on his performance. I really think more critics need to separate his preparation, from the performance. And what the hell is he trying to do tying it to the presidential election??

 

[Gabriel_Logan]

This paragraph was great

While preparing for his role, Leto claims to have read widely on shamanism, sat through Alejandro Jodorowsky’s oeuvre, and spent time imposing himself on psychiatric clinicians and their patients. He brought the whole ponderous weight of method acting—something designed to help mediocre, merely human actors over-identify with their mediocre, merely human subjects—to bear on the challenge of playing a scary clown. He sunk deep into the foundational gloom of his psyche. And the result? Onscreen, a man with green hair and the word ‘Damaged’ tattooed across his forehead extends a trembling hand. (Because crazy people tremble, right?) He laughs in little staccato bursts, because he’s playing a clown. He puffs his lips out a bit, because that’s what Heath Ledger did. He’s on screen for roughly three minutes. His performance is slightly better than the worst Joker imitations on YouTube. It’s annoying to watch. That’s all.

 

[Vyer]

Lol @ that. Turning into a political piece seems fitting.

I wonder if that blog is self aware enough to see the irony

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

I agree that "vote for the Dems because the Repubs are worse" is just a prolonging of the race to the bottom (though this election is truly special in the moral starkness of its choice), but man, what a fucking over-the-top, pretentious, pseudointellectual way of saying it. It's a dopey comic book movie and, by all accounts, a bad one. Get the hell over yourself, you dummy.