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The Legacy of Kain - Remembering past games, imagining future ones.

Mama Robotnik

Member
Apr 11, 2008
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I know the Legacy of Kain games have a small but passionate fanbase on GAF, so lets look back at this wonderful series, and consider what future the games could have, if indeed any.

For those unfamiliar: the Legacy spans five action-adventure games with role-play elements. The series boasts fun gameplay, great graphics, the best voice acting the industry has to offer, and possibly the best-written and complex story you can find in the medium.

To aid discussion, I'm going to remind us of the series strengths and weaknesses.


Blood Omen - Legacy of Kain
1996, Silicon Knights / Crystal Dynamics, Playstation/PC







Blood Omen is a tremendous game. Made in a similar style to A Link to the Past, this game took the overhead-action-adventure genre to a dark and distant place. We play as Kain, a selfish newly-turned vampire, out to avenge his own unimportant death. The journey brings us to a world of secret wars, insane sorcerers, demon-invaders, ghost-soldiers and plague-ridden villagers. Kain tears his way through villages, kingdoms, parallel dimensions and alternate timeless, to save the world for all the wrong reasons.

The game is an exploration-driven, non-linear, plot heavy epic with a vast array of secrets, weapons, magic and abilities (the werewolf transformation was particularly fun). The game engine was unfortunately unable to keep up with the ambition, and as a result the game is afflicted with appaling load times. These were later fixed in the superior PC release.


Soul Reaver
1999 - Crystal Dynamics / Eidos, Playstation, PC, Dreamcast







The most popular and acclaimed of the series, Soul Reaver is a polished masterpiece, introducing technical innovations that put many present-generation games to shame.

Set a millenia after Blood Omen, the power vacuum left in Nosgoth has been filled by Kain, Dark-God of the Vampires. The protagonist Raziel is a vengeful wraith, executed by Kain on a whim of power, and resurrected centuries later by an unknown force. Raziel wakes to a dying Empire filled with devolved vampiric beasts, and slaughters his way through their numbers to seek revenge on Kain. As the game reaches its close, Raziel tracks Kain down to a buried facility constructed aeons ago: an ancient Time-Machine.

Soul Reaver was a marvel, creating a non-linear world of exploration, secrets, and upgrade-based progression well in advance of Metroid Prime. The game introduced puzzle-specific combat, real-time shifting between the worlds of life-and-death, and abolished loading-times. These advances coupled with the series' strong art, sound and plot, formed a stellar experience. The only flaw in the production is the cliffhanger ending, blatantly attached to an unfinished game.


Soul Reaver 2
2001 - Crystal Dynamics / Eidos, Playstation 2, PC







Soul Reaver 2 was a cinematic triumph, using the new technology of the PS2 to depict a beautiful world as it grows and dies. Using the narrative-device of time-travel, Raziel leaps from past-to-future and back again, exploring a historic Nosgoth filled with life and witnessing its future as a demon-infested death-world.

Raziel begins to understand that Kain planned his brutal execution and resurrection, and has been training him as a soldier in a war against time itself. In one of the most complex time-travel stories gaming has produced, Kain triggers paradoxes at key moments in history in a futile attempt to alter the future. The result is the darkest twist of the series, in which Raziel discovers what he really is.

Soul Reaver 2 provides the strongest story in the series, being intelligently written and exceptionally acted. Unfortunately, the game feels less varied and more linear than its predecessors, and the dual-world mechanic is relegated to more of a punishment than a puzzle. Despite the apparent flaws, the game is highly enjoyable and a strong entry for the series.



Blood Omen 2
2002 - Crystal Dynamics / Eidos, Playstation 2, XBox, Gamecube, PC







Blood Omen 2 was a dramatic shift in tone and quality for the series, and is universally regarded as the weak link. Set in a steampunk-fashioned oppressed city, Kain fights his way through human armies now mysteriously armed with otherworldly technology. Kain discovers that, following the wake of the primitive demonic invasions, another dimensional force has found Nosgoth ripe for the taking.

The game lacks the depth of the others, with the young Kain depcited as a hollow tyrant. The themes and conventions of the series are disregarded, replaced with a black-and-white quest to beat the last boss and conquer the world. The dialogue and animation is clumsy compared to series' standards, and the utterly linear level-structure is uninspired.

The game has its moments, in particular the bosses are challenging and fun, the combat is visceral if repetitive, and some of the more interesting levels (the Eternal Prison, the Canyons, the Sarafan Keep) are a fun adventure. Nonetheless, this is a sub-par if playable entry.


Legacy of Kain: Defiance
2003 - Crystal Dynamics / Eidos, Playstation 2, XBox, PC







The final game of the series thus far, Defiance weaves a satisfying web of questions and answers. The game is a return to some of the series strengths, though makes a significant shift from puzzle-solving adventure to a more combat-focused design.

Playing through two different sides of the same story, the game alternates between the Vampire-God Kain and the Sentient Time-Paradox Raziel. Outside of time, our protagonists witness the events of the original Blood Omen firsthand, and fight as history moves to the apocalypse that triggered the franchise. The chain of character-manipulation is finally revealed, and the puppet-masters of aeons of wars are exposed. Kain and Raziel both intend to change history, but become aware they have very different futures in mind.

Defiance introduces graphical and combat improvements to the series, and the result is a beautiful game filled with interesting enemies and stunning environments. Combat is redesigned with a focus on telekinesis, realised as a tremendously-fun rag-doll mechanic. The games has a number of flaws: puzzles have been reduced to fetch-quests, there is significant environmental repitition and the dual-world mechanic is all-but ignored. Exploration emphasised in earlier games is replaced with a linear path, and there are some significant camera issues.

Despite the flaws, the game is a satisfying, compelling visit to Nosgoth, and brings closure and answers to many of the series threads.





So there they are. A fun, sometimes-flawed, but very compelling series and one of the best gaming stories ever made. The lack of a Legacy of Kain title is a sore point for this generation, especially with as some of the new issues raised in Defiance remain unanswered.

Now ownership of the IP is firmly in the hands of Square-Enix, I ask GAF, does the Legacy of Kain have a future? The fanbase is no longer as big as it was, and though the last few titles have been successful, they haven't been blockbusters. The series has only once achieved massive mainstream success with the first Soul Reaver, which wisely made itself accesible by establishing its own identity before exploring the previous mythos.

Crystal Dynamics clearly has a passion for the series, placing numerous easter-egg references in their Tomb-Raider games. This infers to me that they'd like to make more, even after Eidos cancelled the intended sixth game.

My suggestion for the series future: repeat the Soul Reaver approach. Set a new game distant from the current mythos, far into Nosgoth's past and/or future. Make it accessible to new players and craft a world of new characters and places. Only then link it to the previous games. On a personal note, the Metroid Prime gameplay style of Soul Reaver was the series strongest I feel, and would like to see a return to this.

So, I turn the topic to GAF. Can the Legacy of Kain be brought back in a way that is financially successful, and as compelling as previous entries? How would you like to see if realised?
 
Dec 3, 2008
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The original Soul Reaver is a game that has stuck with me to this day. Amazing voice work and production values, such a fantastic game.
 

Kittonwy

Banned
Feb 21, 2006
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Why do you refer to the "Metroid Prime"-style gameplay of Soul Reaver when Soul Reaver existed well before Metroid Prime? Soul Reaver had great level designs and puzzles, brilliant boss fights, and a much more seamless environment than Metroid Prime ever did without the use of elevator cutscenes.

Although the series did not end with a fantastic game with Defiance being a bit of a disappointment, the story is done. I can understand that fans want another game in the universe but the story progression ended with Defiance, anymore entries into the series would be redundant.
 

Kazuma Kiryu

Member
Apr 19, 2008
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i played blood omen when it was released, enjoyed it tremendously. however, soul reaver was the one that truly hooked me into the series.
looking back, the only one i didn't like was blood omen 2. something was just wrong with that game, can't really tell many years have gone by. but i know one thing..."I RENOUNCE YOU":D
 

lopaz

Banned
Apr 28, 2007
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I gave up trying to follow the story, and I got the feeling they were making it up as they went along by the end, particularly with the later attempts to make Blood Omen 2 canon when it was made by another developer who probably just got some plot points muddled.
And the "oh look! a painting that explains everything!" schtick was hugely overused in Defiance, it literally ran throughout the whole game, compared to SR2 where it was used sparingly and was really effective.
That said, most of the story stuff was hugely addictive to follow, especially with the epic voice acting. The opening lines of the SR1 cutscenes send chills down the spine. Though I think I remember Kain's VA died (maybe I made that up), which would be a massive downer on any future games.

Gameplay in the Soul Reavers was a lot of fun, really satisfying to beat people up and impale them as Raziel, and the dungeons/temples/whatever in SR2 were genius. Never played Blood Omen 1 cause I couldn't find a PAL copy that I could afford at the time I was into the series, but BO2 was fun I thought, nothing like eating some villagers. And the boss fights of course. Combat in Defiance was ridiculously fun with the TK and juggling and whatnot, but the puzzles were shitty.

I think the main problem in potentially making a future game is that as you said the fanbase probably is smaller than it was, and to actually make a LoK game that would be worthwhile (ie a nice big open world and great graphics and voice acting), you'd need a big budget. I also think the main writer left too, Amy Hennig I think, so yeah there's a lot of things running against any attempt to make another.
 

Foil

Member
Apr 4, 2005
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Easily my favorite series in gaming. Shame that it's dead, more so when crap franchises get to continue on.
 

Snowden

Banned
Sep 15, 2006
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I can still recite huge swaths of the series verbatim. Easily the most engrossing videogame series I've ever played, even if the gameplay itself could never match the fantastic story and presentation.
 

Kittonwy

Banned
Feb 21, 2006
21,538
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lopaz said:
I gave up trying to follow the story, and I got the feeling they were making it up as they went along by the end, particularly with the later attempts to make Blood Omen 2 canon when it was made by another developer who probably just got some plot points muddled.
And the "oh look! a painting that explains everything!" schtick was hugely overused in Defiance, it literally ran throughout the whole game, compared to SR2 where it was used sparingly and was really effective.
That said, most of the story stuff was hugely addictive to follow, especially with the epic voice acting. The opening lines of the SR1 cutscenes send chills down the spine. Though I think I remember Kain's VA died (maybe I made that up), which would be a massive downer on any future games.

Gameplay in the Soul Reavers was a lot of fun, really satisfying to beat people up and impale them as Raziel, and the dungeons/temples/whatever in SR2 were genius. Never played Blood Omen 1 cause I couldn't find a PAL copy that I could afford at the time I was into the series, but BO2 was fun I thought, nothing like eating some villagers. And the boss fights of course. Combat in Defiance was ridiculously fun with the TK and juggling and whatnot, but the puzzles were shitty.

I think the main problem in potentially making a future game is that as you said the fanbase probably is smaller than it was, and to actually make a LoK game that would be worthwhile (ie a nice big open world and great graphics and voice acting), you'd need a big budget. I also think the main writer left too, Amy Hennig I think, so yeah there's a lot of things running against any attempt to make another.

Elder God's VA Tony Jay died. Simon Templeman (Kain's VA) is still alive, he was Gabriel Roman in Uncharted.
 

Foil

Member
Apr 4, 2005
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This thread just reminds me I still have to track down a copy of Soul Reaver for Dreamcast since I got my system working again. That and the fact I'm still pissed off at Microsoft for not making Defiance backwards compatible. It's been sitting on my shelf collecting dust for a long, long time.
 

TheRagnCajun

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Feb 23, 2007
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Awesome thread Mamma, my favourite franchise by far. If they were to make another, I would love to see a game spanning the time between Blood Omen and Soul Reaver, specifically a game where you get to play as Raziel as a vampire, serving Kain.

Incidentally, I think the franchise's biggest overall flaw was combining time travel and a non-linear story. Its confusing stuff. I think it would be one thing of Kain could only see into the future and past. Actually going to and fro throughout time, with game installments that were not chronologically sequenced was just a recipe for a headache.
 

Kittonwy

Banned
Feb 21, 2006
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Powerslave said:
There was too much combat in Defiance. I didn't finish it because I lost interest.

They tried to copy DMC too much, combat in general was not the team's strength, the combat in Soul Reaver worked, it didn't need to be unnecessarily complicated or flashy, even Soul Reaver 2's combat didn't feel as good as Soul Reaver's combat, and with no boss fights in Soul Reaver 2, it was kind of a disappointment, the story was great though.
 

Snowden

Banned
Sep 15, 2006
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Kittonwy said:
They tried to copy DMC too much, combat in general was not the team's strength, the combat in Soul Reaver worked, it didn't need to be unnecessarily complicated or flashy, even Soul Reaver 2's combat didn't feel as good as Soul Reaver's combat, and with no boss fights in Soul Reaver 2, it was kind of a disappointment, the story was great though.
While the SR combat system worked, and I do think they went completely the wrong direction by emphasizing the weakest mechanic of the series, I would've preferred more or less removing combat entirely in favor of more adventure and exploring. One of the biggest sins of Defiance for me, beyond even the DMC-lite combat, was how the amazing world of Nosgoth was reduced to a linear series of kill rooms. The world they built up is far too rich for that kind of treatment.
 
Jun 16, 2004
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Mama Robotnik said:
My suggestion for the series future: repeat the Soul Reaver approach. Set a new game distant from the current mythos, far into Nosgoth's past and/or future. Make it accessible to new players and craft a world of new characters and places. Only then link it to the previous games. On a personal note, the Metroid Prime gameplay style of Soul Reaver was the series strongest I feel, and would like to see a return to this.

So, I turn the topic to GAF. Can the Legacy of Kain be brought back in a way that is financially successful, and as compelling as previous entries? How would you like to see if realised?

I was with you until the bolded part. I'll fully admit that I never played BO:LOK, or BO2 for that matter, just the Raziel games. Whilst Kain's part in Soul Reaver was easy enough to understand based off of a brief overview, as the series progressed and they tied it more into the minutae of BO's plot and characters, I found that I was never as confident in my understanding of Kain's side of the plot as I was with Raziel. I read up on the plot of BO, but without having played it, it was difficult to make it stick. And that was with just one game of plot to digest.

I feel that if they were to revisit the franchise, like you said, they'd probably have to distance themselves from most of the plot up to this point. Where I disagree with you is on then reintroducing the stuff from the previous games at a later date. I kinda feel that where the series declined from Soul Reaver was that plotwise the later games so immersed themselves in the earlier game that the people who had come onboard for SR probably felt at a loss with what they were playing. Gameplaywise they then seemed to lose their sense of identity.

I don't think it helped that they kept fiddling around with the naming convention. It started with Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain, then they dropped the Blood Omen and called the next one Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver, then they dropped the Legacy of Kain and called the next one Soul Reaver 2, then they resurrected the Blood Omen name and called the spinoff Blood Omen 2, then for the final one, despite being a follow on from the Soul Reaver offshoot, they dropped the Soul Reaver and ressurected the Legacy of Kain and called it Legacy of Kain: Defiance.

So in summary, I think a rebirth of the series, to be commercially viable, would have to carry on the tone of the world but really only lightly reference the events of the previous games.

Edit: Between this and the Tomb Raider rumours thread, I feel like I'm becoming an advocate for rebooting, especially in regards to Crystal Dynamics games.
 

ChackanKun

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Mar 16, 2008
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This is one of my favorite series, no doubt about that. Not only it had a great gameplay but the storyline was so strong and epic.

But I bet that if they tried to bring back and make a new game it wouldn't be as good as the older ones. Prolly it would be another Blood Omen 2.

So i think that it's better like this. Great series that ended in an epic way.
 

Snowden

Banned
Sep 15, 2006
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Die Squirrel Die said:
I don't think it helped that they kept fiddling around with the naming convention. It started with Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain, then they dropped the Blood Omen and called the next one Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver, then they dropped the Legacy of Kain and called the next one Soul Reaver 2, then they resurrected the Blood Omen name and called the spinoff Blood Omen 2, then for the final one, despite being a follow on from the Soul Reaver offshoot, they dropped the Soul Reaver and ressurected the Legacy of Kain and called it Legacy of Kain: Defiance.
:lol yes

I'd like to know who thought it was a good idea to distance the series from the branding of its most successful title.
 

Raziel

Member
Jun 19, 2007
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hmm im not sure i get the metroid prime comparison either. very nice thread regardless though
 

rollingstart

Banned
Dec 12, 2006
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One of my favorite game series. With the exception of BO2 and Defiance, I have them all on PC and double dipped with SR2. I replayed SR2 only a few weeks ago and it still was great, though that combat was really clunky by today standards. BO2 is probably my least favorite if only for how janky and unfinished it felt.

Any new entry in the series would be great

and seriously some of the best voice acting in any game. Really great stuff.
 

lopaz

Banned
Apr 28, 2007
3,072
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Die Squirrel Die said:
I kinda feel that where the series declined from Soul Reaver was that plotwise the later games so immersed themselves in the earlier game that the people who had come onboard for SR probably felt at a loss with what they were playing. Gameplaywise they then seemed to lose their sense of identity.

Dead on. Even people who'd played the whole series didn't know what the fuck was going on, and none of the games really attempted any kind of catch-up section on the previous games' plot, so if you were new to the series you would be lost. Probably why it never got so many fans.
 
Dec 3, 2008
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I was looking forward to Blood Omen more then anything when it was released. I still remember the PSM magazine cover and the insane hype the game got. Then, when it came out to mediocre at best scores, such a disappointment lol

I would love a return to form Soul Reaver title.
 

Johann

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Jul 6, 2008
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Defiance seems to be the most 'commercial' entry with more action-focused gameplay with a lot less exploration and puzzles to slow down the game. However, I believe Soul Reaver 1 was the best selling in the series. I remember Eidos giving the game the royal treatment with a lot of advertisements and memorabilia. In addition to the unique setting and look, a lot of magazines kept mentioning the game as a technical marvel with it's graphics, CGI, and negligible load times (which was a big deal on the PS1).

I think there are two routes that the a new installment could take. It go the action game path and attempt to make a traditional action-adventure game (with that sales safety net) which is rooted deeply in mature vampire lore with puzzle and exploration elements, similar to God of War. A trend we are seeing with a lot of franchises is that they are stripping away the elements that bog down the core action. It's very difficult for a game with heavy puzzle or adventure game to succeed in today's market (unless it's on the DS or bundled with Half-Life). It would especially advantageous if this game had a co-op feature to help it stand out and perhaps duplicate the success of Fable 2.

There are a few problems with this. The action route runs the risk of being just another action adventure game that people thumb over and pass because they're better off waiting/playing God of War 3 or another established action-adventure franchise. It has to pull off a balancing act between having familiar gameplay but being distinguished enough to appeal to new players. There's also a chance the action (possible multiplayer) focus could come at the expense of plot development and the depth of the game world, which could alienate long time fans.

The other route would be to try to make another 'Soul Reaver', which was the height of the franchise's popularity. Eidos really pulled out all stops when marketing Soul Reaver. I remember so many different magazines (Google says it was on the cover of ten magazines a month before). If they weren't about the setting, they were about the game's anti-hero or the plane-shifting gameplay or the cutting-edge technology behind the game. The series has somehow re-invent itself and get the same buzz that propelled the series into the limelight without sacrificing its integrity, which easier said than done. The series' then intriguing anti-hero has pretty much become prerequisite in every other action game. The gore and oppressive world have become standards when making a mature rated action game. While the setting is beloved by fans, people who so much as miss out on one post-Blood Omen game will have no idea what is going on. It also more difficult and expensive to make a standout technically proficient game these days, which doesn't necessarily translate into big sales.

I think a reboot is probably the best idea. Similar to what Mama Robotnik suggested, the new game should be set up at a new timeline/setting. That way, new fans won't be hesitant to approach the game and old fans will be attracted to how this connects (but not at the expense of new players) to past games. With the new setting, the gameplay also needs a reboot. It can't just go off cherry-picking gameplay from other games in which the gameplay is much more well-developed. The gameplay needs to fit the setting like how the gameplay of Soul Reaver fit the game's story and atmosphere. It needs the little something extra that gets people asking who is that evil looking smurf with a hand on fire in that advertisement.

I always wondered if there was a way to get Tomb Raider's popularity to rub off on Legacy of Kain. The fanservice in the Tomb Raider games helped a few of my friends become familiar to Legacy of Kain but hey never actually went out and played them. I can't imagine anything short of LoK becoming Tomb Raider with vampires getting a significant portion of those players.

Die Squirrel Die said:
I don't think it helped that they kept fiddling around with the naming convention. It started with Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain, then they dropped the Blood Omen and called the next one Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver, then they dropped the Legacy of Kain and called the next one Soul Reaver 2, then they resurrected the Blood Omen name and called the spinoff Blood Omen 2, then for the final one, despite being a follow on from the Soul Reaver offshoot, they dropped the Soul Reaver and ressurected the Legacy of Kain and called it Legacy of Kain: Defiance.

I heard speculation that Eidos/Crystal Dynamics wanted distance the series from Silicon Knights in case they demanded money. I don't know how true this is since the IP dispute was settled prior to Soul Reaver's release and SK is credited with original concept creator. Then again, we know how... vindictive Dyack can be.
 

Jugendstil

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Jun 9, 2004
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Such a great series. Even though each game had its own set of problems, they were all quite good (except for Blood Omen 2, I didn't even bother with that). Even though the story quality fluctuated quite a bit as the series progressed, Kain and Raziel were such strong characters it didn't matter that much. Kain is such a bad ass, and the voice acting in the series is killer.

I remember being so pumped for Blood Omen. I even won a t-shirt of the game from a contest on Activision's web site. I tried replaying it recently on my PSP, but it didn't hold up that well. Still, at the time there wasn't anything else quite like it. It's easily the best thing Silicon Knights ever had their name attached to IMO.

I would love for their to be a new entry in this series. I don't even remember how Defiance ended. Was there any room for a sequel or continuation?
 
Dec 3, 2008
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Johann said:
I think a reboot is probably the best idea. Similar to what Mama Robotnik suggested, the new game should be set up at a new timeline/setting. That way, new fans won't be hesitant to approach the game and old fans will be attracted to how this connects (but not at the expense of new players) to past games. With the new setting, the gameplay also needs a reboot. It can't just go off cherry-picking gameplay from other games in which the gameplay is much more well-developed. The gameplay needs to fit the setting like how the gameplay of Soul Reaver fit the game's story and atmosphere. It needs the little something extra that gets people asking who is that evil looking smurf with a hand on fire in that advertisement

The shifting of planes in the original was a spell binding effect and the way it was integrated into gameplay was brilliant.
 

ArjanN

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Jugendstil said:
Such a great series. Even though each game had its own set of problems, they were all quite good (except for Blood Omen 2, I didn't even bother with that). Even though the story quality fluctuated quite a bit as the series progressed, Kain and Raziel were such strong characters it didn't matter that much. Kain is such a bad ass, and the voice acting in the series is killer.

I remember being so pumped for Blood Omen. I even won a t-shirt of the game from a contest on Activision's web site. I tried replaying it recently on my PSP, but it didn't hold up that well. Still, at the time there wasn't anything else quite like it. It's easily the best thing Silicon Knights ever had their name attached to IMO.

I would love for their to be a new entry in this series. I don't even remember how Defiance ended. Was there any room for a sequel or continuation?

There was some room left, but by now if there ever is a new game in this series it would pretty much have to be a reboot.

Eidos should put some of that Square Enix money to good use and make a new legacy of Kain. Oh, and Fear Effect 3 while they're at it.
 
Dec 3, 2008
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ArjanN said:
There was some room left, but by now if there ever is a new game in this series it would pretty much have to be a reboot.

Eidos should put some of that Square Enix money to good use and make a new legacy of Kain. Oh, and Fear Effect 3 while they're at it.

WIN
 
Jan 29, 2007
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ArjanN said:
There was some room left, but by now if there ever is a new game in this series it would pretty much have to be a reboot.

Eidos should put some of that Square Enix money to good use and make a new legacy of Kain. Oh, and Fear Effect 3 while they're at it.

There was one and it was canned near the end of Production.
 

antispin

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Apr 28, 2005
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I am probably in the minority here (haven't read the thread past the excellent OP) but to me the first game was the best experience. I loved everything about it -- from Kain to the "puzzles", to the combat. Really well-written to my teenage angst-filled self as well. The rest were meh but I played them all since I loved the story so much. Raziel was a whiny little runt but was tolerable. I played for glimpses of Kain and the awesome voice-acting all around :lol Defiance, I loved (Blood Omen 2, less so).

I think the series saw a satisfying end in Defiance -- sure it didn't end, not literally, but I felt that it brought things to a satisfying conclusion and in a way acted as an Ouroboros connecting back to the first game. I liked that.

Would love another entry though!
 

SumGamer

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I remember trying to read all the signs in the game with English characters mapping chart in Blood Omen. My favourite by far. I thought it was on PlayStation though.
 

PedroLumpy

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Jul 1, 2006
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Ifrit said:
I love this series, btw this thread lacks the Legacy of Kain timeline chart, where is it?

I imagine that would be an interesting read.

We're good spoiler wise right? Tags seem silly after this long. Anyway....

While Defiance was weak as far as the series goes, it did manage to leave me satisfied story wise, which I never would have thought going into it. Also the showdown between Kain and Raziel was incredibly epic. After watching them over that many games, dancing between killing each other and helping each other, to have them finally really throw down was tense as hell.

R.I.P. Tony Jay
 

MattKeil

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Aug 4, 2004
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I wouldn't want to see the series resurrected without the input and writing of Amy Hennig, who really made the series what it was post-Blood Omen. She now writes the Uncharted games, and it shows if you're a LoK fan, I think.

Kain is one of the best written characters in gaming. The scene at the Pillars of Nosgoth in Soul Reaver 2 in which he cryptically explains to Raziel what he's been doing the whole time is brilliantly written and performed.


Raziel: You said it yourself, Kain. Your coin only has two sides.
Kain: Apparently so. But suppose you throw a coin enough times? Suppose...one day...it lands on its edge?
 

Dead Man

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Aug 24, 2007
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Great thread Mama, nice work. My 2c: I think a reboot might work best as well. The story itself is fluid enough that as long as they keep the major events you could re tell the story without too much disruption. The difficulty would be differentiating it from games like DMC and GOW. Kains early story would not really lend itself to any groundbreaking mechanics. Raziels, while being better for unique gameplay, is not the start of the story and might confuse things.

Hard one to figure out really.
 

Nikorasu

Member
Apr 24, 2008
1,534
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The twist at the end of Soul Reaver 2 blew my fucking mind. Some of the most amazing writing in gaming history.

Now I want to track down the PC versions :(

EDIT: Hey lookit that. All of them on ebay for pretty damn cheap. :D
 

Danielsan

Member
Feb 18, 2007
16,682
1
910
The Netherlands
The original Soul Reaver is without a doubt one of my favourite PS1 games. The atmosphere, the writing and the voice acting are all stellar. I've only played and finished Soul Reaver 2 after that but I found it severely lacking in the gameplay department (particularly the clunky combat). The story kept me going though.

I can only hope that that someday Square Enix Europe sells or outsources the IP to Naughty Dog. They are the one studio who can restore the series to former or greater glory.
 

ThatObviousUser

ὁ αἴσχιστος παῖς εἶ
Apr 14, 2007
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1,450


:lol I can't tell what's funnier, the bad CG, Kain's expression, or the MS Works logo.

I've had fond memories of Legacy of Kain. A current-gen one would be nice to see, whether Blood Omen or Soul Reaver.
 

G-Fex

Member
Apr 15, 2005
67,252
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You know I got Soul Reaver on Dreamcast and still haven't gotten around to play it yet. I want to try that, then I'll probably get the PS2 titles.
 

ram

Member
Sep 21, 2004
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www.onpsx.net
i really HATE "Defiance" - its the worst legacy of kain game and fails in about every aspect. the combat is a bad DMC rip-off, the puzzles are so stupid and dumb and the story is mediocre at best. also, i think - the games doesnt look as good as soul reaver 2, which is even today a beatuiful game.
 

Seagoon

Member
Feb 20, 2007
440
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If ever there was a series to be re-released on GoG. This would surely be it.

I have only played the first game in the series, but absolutely loved the setting. It was a long time ago now, but I'm hoping the story and the puzzles make up for the aged graphics.
 

ArjanN

Member
Dec 7, 2008
16,815
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Netherlands
ram said:
i really HATE "Defiance" - its the worst legacy of kain game and fails in about every aspect. the combat is a bad DMC rip-off, the puzzles are so stupid and dumb and the story is mediocre at best. also, i think - the games doesnt look as good as soul reaver 2, which is even today a beatuiful game.

Ummm...Blood Omen 2 is about a million times worse.

1. DMC ripoff combat - true, but the combat in all the other games was mediocre as well, seemed at least on par for the series.

2. I think the puzzles were pretty good, you can tell the developer used the same type of puzzles in the new Tomb Raider games. Especially in the temples.

3. It definitely looks better than Soul Reaver 2, at least the PC version did.

4. The story is probably my favourite in the series. It actually managed to wrap up the incredibly convoluted story very well IMO. Which is impressive because you can definately tell they just made up the story on game by game basis.

SketchTheArtist said:
There was one (Fear Effect 3) and it was canned near the end of Production.

one of the top "Why-the-fuck-did-they-cancel-that?" games.
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
Jun 7, 2004
33,383
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Southern MD
I enjoyed each and every flawed game of this series.... rich story, rich characters, rich world... hell I even enjoyed the more combat heavy aspect of Defiance... I just hate that we're left with the story up in the air... Hylden leader in Janos body, Elder God temporarily defeated...