Uhhhh indeed no asian roles were taken away in Iron Fist.
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The Man Behind "Iron Fist" Says "Danny Rand Is Not A White Savior"
- Thread starter LordOfLore
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Just like how the Ancient One was somehow always a western European actress, right?
Didnt realise we were in a Dr. Strange thread my bad.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
Well yea, we're in a thread about an actor trying to justify the lack of asian roles. So a poster's comment mentioning an example about it with that example coming from under the same umbrella makes sense. This is less of an "Ironfist" thread and more about Finn Jones saying "Yo, i know asians need roles and yall worried about tropes, but its all good, cause we go more white people to keep it from seeming mighty whitey"
firehawk12
Subete no aware
For some reason I thought this was about that Bruce Lee movie.
You think this problem is somehow an isolated incident? Iron Fist does not exist in a vacuum. This is an issue with TV and film at large, and it sure as hell isn't stretching when we're talking about two Marvel superhero properties.
That doesn't make it not whitewashing. Then hire an Indian actress. Or a Japanese actress. Or an Indonesian actress. Or a South American actress.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
lol you bought that Horseshit?
BronsonLee
Member
It was done to cast Tilda Swinton
Seductivpancakes
Member
And what is there reasoning behind this?
We need more diversification in media, so add more white people.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
I didn't like the whitewashing in Dr. Strange of course. And I think they could have made the Ancient one be played by a asian guy without him falling into the trope..... but Tilda killed that shit. Fuck you Marvel for making me accept that shit. I wanted to hate it so bad!
I don't think Jones should have to answer for anything. If it wasn't him in the role it would've been another White actor. Actor's gotta eat and he's not a big enough name to be picky with roles. I appreciate that he's given the controversy some thought, practiced or otherwise.
Marvel has shown that they aren't interested in Asian males getting lead roles in any of their cinematic properties, tv or film. It's on them.
Marvel has shown that they aren't interested in Asian males getting lead roles in any of their cinematic properties, tv or film. It's on them.
With Marvel's track record, them making the most powerful character on Earth a bald white woman was downright progressive by their standards
jokingbird
Member
Marvel has diversified the comics like crazy. I would expect to see some bleed over after the initial phases of the MCU / TV universe as it is slightly separated. Now that Spiderman is going to crossover hopefully they can get Silk in with a TV show or something.
Over time they will cycle over. I don't mind Danny being white, but I do want to see him get his ass kicked by the other immortal weapons.
Amadeus Cho is an awesome character but until the hulk transformation, his power set was super intelligence, which would have been good for a procedural ... not sure they would invest into a movie. It would be cool to start having these characters show up in the MCU as side characters before fully transforming into the leads with a baton pass. I really enjoyed the Hercules run with him, but yet again hard to picture them going there for a movie.
Over time they will cycle over. I don't mind Danny being white, but I do want to see him get his ass kicked by the other immortal weapons.
Amadeus Cho is an awesome character but until the hulk transformation, his power set was super intelligence, which would have been good for a procedural ... not sure they would invest into a movie. It would be cool to start having these characters show up in the MCU as side characters before fully transforming into the leads with a baton pass. I really enjoyed the Hercules run with him, but yet again hard to picture them going there for a movie.
I wish we can recast you with Emma Stone
Cindy Moon is in the Spiderman movie
BronsonLee
Member
Don't you compare me to that gaddamn haole flop
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
shit its what Im hoping for. Im hoping in next phase we start seeing the baton passed to Kamala, Miles, Riri and yes, most importantly, Amadeus.
We'll see if she gets any lines or is instead like a background cameo like Jubilee in the X-Men movies or something...
BronsonLee
Member
I still lol every time I think about how they fumbled Jubilee and Psylocke
seriously. weve been saying this since its been announced
miles? petes story hasn even started yet and already phasing him out for the inferior model
Ahh, Amadeus Cho. Never reflected on that Pak made him the Hulk to diversyfi. Always saw it as the natural outcome if you think about who Amadeus is and his connection to the Hulk but that interview of his said so, about diversity so double yay! I might prefer the Banner Hulk but Amadeus isn't light weight either.
Can we see more of this with the Inhumans? The TV series or movie or whatever it is now.
Can we see more of this with the Inhumans? The TV series or movie or whatever it is now.
dancingphlower
Member
Yeah I certainly don't blame an actor for selecting their parts, I blame the studios for being unwilling to diversify. But like you said, it's nice to see when an actor has given the subject some thought, and disappointing when they don't. I remember an interview with Scarlett Johansson and she basically side stepped the issue with GITS iirc.
ScarJo is the Hollywood leader for feminist. Says all the right things when it suits her.
I felt like they should have gone with an Asian American for the role to kind of pull off BOTH the fish out of water and diversity in heroes aspect, but I can see how they were damned if they did and damned if they didn't.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
we got tons of years of petes story. we need miles.
we have yet to have kraven on the screen, we dont need miles for anything.
How do you feel about MCU Nick Fury?
Too bad Marvel's animation doesn't seem capable of darker more mature material( as in thematically not edge) because if done properly it would be the perfect way to adapt Kraven's Last Hunt, hell if it did well they could even adapt and follow it up with Grim Hunt. Maybe a shorter one between to explain who Kaine is without having or trying to adapt the clone stuff more than to explain Kaine, who is pretty important to Grim Hunt.
In Kubo too, King Liberal Travis Knight defended casting well-known Asians like Charlize Theron, Art Parkinson, and Matthew "Goddamn" McConaughey as the lead Asian characters because they ALSO cast black people as white people in other films they made and "it's the performance that matters"
Fuck off, man. Just admit you live and thrive in a culture that straight up and unabashedly refuses to make Asians into movie stars due to film executives' own backwardass preconceived notions that have been hammered into the Id part of their brains by a neverending cycle of Hollywood racial exclusion.
Fuck off, man. Just admit you live and thrive in a culture that straight up and unabashedly refuses to make Asians into movie stars due to film executives' own backwardass preconceived notions that have been hammered into the Id part of their brains by a neverending cycle of Hollywood racial exclusion.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Voice acting is a tough angle. The majority of people that voiced characters in The Prince of Egypt were white yet it's still the only mainstream adaptation of Moses with the most POC. And of course Samurai Jack is voiced by a black guy. Nothings gonna change until live action movies get their shit together.
Prince of Egypt is laudable for going with realistic ethnicities due to not having to actually cast middle eastern/african movie stars for a live action film in '90s Hollywood, when they absolutely would have had to cast white people in order to get it made.
It's a different era.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
oh shit. I never checked the cast of Kubo but Beetle's voice annoyed me because it not only sounded super familiar but just didnt sound right coming out of an ex samurai's mouth. It was just too southern. it being MM makes so much sense now. Not only is that horseshit but the fact that Kubo was a kid from GOT? smh.... cmon man, could have at least made the lead voice be a asian kid. one of the fresh off the boat kids could have did it if they wanted someone who is relevant thats asian and young.
Kubo doesnt deserve the Oscar based off of that.
Moana did that shit the right way
MHWilliams
Member
Let's talk source material.
K'Un L'un knows white folks too.
DAvos in his early iterations was a white guy
vs. the more appearances of other Asian characters in the opening arcs.
All the major characters in early Iron Fist were white, but on an Asian backdrop. Danny, the Meachums, and Jeryn Hogarth. Colleen Wing was clearly meant to be half-white, half-Chinese. (In actually, her mother was revealed at Japanese, making her half-Chinese, half-Japanese.)
Marvel slowly firmed up Davos and Colleen's designs until they recalled their Asian heritage (indeterminate in Davos' case).
You'll note there that Danny's father, Wendell Rand, is the impetus for Davos' ouster. K'un L'un is no stranger to non-Asian folk and that's pre-Immortal Iron Fist. Danny is the outsider because he's the outsider, not because he does not look like the rest.
This is why I kept pointing this out in earlier threads. Danny himself does not have to be white. It doesn't particularly add anything more to the story. The point was to not be white in K'un L'un, the point - one that carries forward with the character - is he's not from K'un L'un and is ignorant of its larger history.
This doubled down upon given that Orson Randall exists post-Immortal Iron Fist. Orson Randall > Wendall Rand > Danny Rand; they should be used to white dudes.
Now, I don't have a problem Danny being white. That's the source material. I just have issues with the various incorrect arguments as to why he should be white. The only real reason is "because he is in the comics". One that becomes increasingly hard to make given the other changes in an adaptation. (Don't see many arguing vehemently for Colleen's hair to be bright red.)
Given it's an adaptation, I'm also fine with the change to K'un L'un. The mythical city should be primarily ethnic Tibetan and Chinese (the region has a ton of ethnic groups) given the place it appears in in our world, but it's a mythical city that a number of people have traveled to find and they don't seem to have any issue welcoming folks in. I've always been perplexed that K'un L'un has been shown as primarily Chinese, as it doesn't really fit with the region, but that's neither here nor there.
And let's be real, we're not getting a Shang Chi series.
K'Un L'un knows white folks too.
DAvos in his early iterations was a white guy
vs. the more appearances of other Asian characters in the opening arcs.
_from_Marvel_Premiere_Vol_1_15_001.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160825023301)
All the major characters in early Iron Fist were white, but on an Asian backdrop. Danny, the Meachums, and Jeryn Hogarth. Colleen Wing was clearly meant to be half-white, half-Chinese. (In actually, her mother was revealed at Japanese, making her half-Chinese, half-Japanese.)
Marvel slowly firmed up Davos and Colleen's designs until they recalled their Asian heritage (indeterminate in Davos' case).
You'll note there that Danny's father, Wendell Rand, is the impetus for Davos' ouster. K'un L'un is no stranger to non-Asian folk and that's pre-Immortal Iron Fist. Danny is the outsider because he's the outsider, not because he does not look like the rest.
This is why I kept pointing this out in earlier threads. Danny himself does not have to be white. It doesn't particularly add anything more to the story. The point was to not be white in K'un L'un, the point - one that carries forward with the character - is he's not from K'un L'un and is ignorant of its larger history.
This doubled down upon given that Orson Randall exists post-Immortal Iron Fist. Orson Randall > Wendall Rand > Danny Rand; they should be used to white dudes.
Now, I don't have a problem Danny being white. That's the source material. I just have issues with the various incorrect arguments as to why he should be white. The only real reason is "because he is in the comics". One that becomes increasingly hard to make given the other changes in an adaptation. (Don't see many arguing vehemently for Colleen's hair to be bright red.)
Given it's an adaptation, I'm also fine with the change to K'un L'un. The mythical city should be primarily ethnic Tibetan and Chinese (the region has a ton of ethnic groups) given the place it appears in in our world, but it's a mythical city that a number of people have traveled to find and they don't seem to have any issue welcoming folks in. I've always been perplexed that K'un L'un has been shown as primarily Chinese, as it doesn't really fit with the region, but that's neither here nor there.
And let's be real, we're not getting a Shang Chi series.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
I didn't recognize MM's voice. I didn't hear the southern accent from the character.
I'd argue Kubo deserves the Oscar just based on the blood, sweat, and tears in making a stop-motion movie of it's caliber.
BronsonLee
Member
Kubo's cast was weird but I liked Theron in it, Mom had some real goddamn rage
Moana did it right, tho I think that's because Disney wanted that from the get go and put in the work, finding someone like that is a needle in a haystack
Moana did it right, tho I think that's because Disney wanted that from the get go and put in the work, finding someone like that is a needle in a haystack
Miles haven't had anything to say
Yeah, me too. It's a damn shame though to hear well-meaning people coming up with well-meaning explanations to excuse the same old shit though.
Even if that's the case (with her ethnicity being so specifically Polynesian and all), it's still Hollywood's fault for not fostering young Asian actresses for stardom.
BronsonLee
Member
DOUBLE TROUBLE
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
I think Marvel didn't want to create an awkward divide between Danny being Asian in the MCU and Danny being white in the current Marvel comics. They should have created a new Asian character who becomes the new Iron Fist and have Danny be his mentor.
MHWilliams
Member
Oh, like I said, I don't have a problem with it. I understand why they didn't shift.
BronsonLee
Member
Marvel keeps fuckin' up with Asian males and some people think Iron Fist would be a good character for them to roll with an Asian male lead, since they've done race/gender lifting before
But what if, and I'm just spitballing here
ninjas
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