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[Blizzard]

yeah the default setup is horrible. we were able to just dick around until the end, and still end with like a 190 health bonus.

and team matchmaking sucks. i was hoping for a way to combine lobbies, or jump into a lobby w/ 2 or 3 friends.

You can join or be invited to a lobby with friends, you just can't (as far as I know) pick what team you end up playing against.

 

[vertopci]

They only play VS, only on their own server, and only with their particular setup (CEVO/Frustian's mod).

Will they play scavenge?

Spoiler

Probably not.

We like competition and thus the competitive standard is best for that! Besides, I can't really see how anyone could defend vanilla L4D VS :/

Spoiler

We play on other servers as well...but they are CEVO/FrusMod as well

You can join or be invited to a lobby with friends, you just can't (as far as I know) pick what team you end up playing against.

It also doesn't tell you if you're hosting it locally. Which is fucking stupid and the main problem. And you can't pick what server.

 

[Blizzard]

The one thing I don't understand tonight was whether something was messed up on the configuration for vert's server.

If it was, you'd think my team would have had an advantage too though, so it was probably just me being terrible as usual. :lol But shadowlink (who normally shoots hunters etc. with ease) wasn't doing much, the rest of us were dying from shotguns from 20 feet away midpounce, our pounces would kind of go around or nearly off survivors, tank punches (in my case) would play the punch sound (misses are silent I think) but the survivor wouldn't move, and so forth. And we all had decent ~100 ms ping, so who knows. Left 4 Dead always leaves me feeling that there is some secret to tank punch timing and I am doing it horribly wrong.

To make vanilla Left 4 Dead harder, the difficulty should probably just be put at advanced or expert. I guess I don't feel like Valve designed L4D to be very competitive-gaming friendly, and with the new random stuff in L4D2 I'm not sure if it will be better, unless it does stuff like changes paths the same way for both versus teams.

 

[Nabs]

You can join or be invited to a lobby with friends, you just can't (as far as I know) pick what team you end up playing against.

i just want to be able to combine rooms of 4 so we're able to find a good server.

tonight we had to try for 10 min to even find a team, but then we couldn't find a server so it local hosted it. so we did a 'return to lobby' vote and it returned us to the team matchmaking lobby =\

 

[vertopci]

The one thing I don't understand tonight was whether something was messed up on the configuration for vert's server.

If it was, you'd think my team would have had an advantage too though, so it was probably just me being terrible as usual. :lol But shadowlink (who normally shoots hunters etc. with ease) wasn't doing much, the rest of us were dying from shotguns from 20 feet away midpounce, our pounces would kind of go around or nearly off survivors, tank punches (in my case) would play the punch sound (misses are silent I think) but the survivor wouldn't move, and so forth. And we all had decent ~100 ms ping, so who knows.

Shadowlink told me that he was tired today. Even in our pubstomp he had trouble skeeting/deadstopping today.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

We like competition and thus the competitive standard is best for that! Besides, I can't really see how anyone could defend vanilla L4D VS :/

Spoiler

We play on other servers as well...but they are CEVO/FrusMod as well

It also doesn't tell you if you're hosting it locally. Which is fucking stupid and the main problem. And you can't pick what server.

well aren't you a barrel of fun

 

[vertopci]

well aren't you a barrel of fun

thx bro

 

[morningbus]

I think pro-CEVO/Frusmod comments come with some baggage, especially with the last few pages of discussion, but they get at a legitimate point: is the plain VS. game too easy or unbalanced?

And the answer is yes, ultimately (or at least when playing in teams that are at least somewhat familiar with one another). Should VS be designed in such a way as to allow the Survivors to pretty much always make it to the saferoom? When the game first launched, I believe Valve explicitly set their expectations of the gameplay at "survivors will only make it if they're really good."

I don't agree with everything in Cevo/Frusmod, but what those configurations give is a more intense and focused version of the VS. game.

Anyway, EmCeeGramr, I don't think we've ever played with you before. What's your Steam I.D.? Maybe we can play a vanilla and frusmodded game sometime and compare the two experiences back to back.

 

[Red Scarlet]

My main issue with Cevo/Frusmod is they get rid of kits, (well Frusmod until the finale) but there's so many pills, which are used instantly and they don't give as many points, but some levels can have a buttload of them so it seems like you are using more health items in it.

 

[vertopci]

My main issue with Cevo/Frusmod is they get rid of kits, (well Frusmod until the finale) but there's so many pills, which are used instantly and they don't give as many points, but some levels can have a buttload of them so it seems like you are using more health items in it.

All kits are replaced with pills. So you technically have less healing power...

 

[Red Scarlet]

Yes, but when you can get up to 9 of them a map, it's not that different from 4-5 kits, imo. There's no 5 second delay to heal, it's about a half second. Your score is way lower without kits, yeah, but when you get a lot of healing items in that mode too, it doesn't feel that different healthwise. One guy said he wanted to make a mod without starting with pills, maybe only find them along the way, but maybe they'll make a maximum # of pills too.

I know Frustian's also has a tank each map and no tier 2's except sniper until the finale.

 

[PillowKnight]

My main issue with Cevo/Frusmod is they get rid of kits, (well Frusmod until the finale) but there's so many pills, which are used instantly and they don't give as many points, but some levels can have a buttload of them so it seems like you are using more health items in it.

Well, even though you can heal a ton if you get lucky, three incaps actually means death. Unlike the regular game where you just heal 99% of the time.

 

[Blizzard]

My main issue with Cevo/Frusmod is they get rid of kits, (well Frusmod until the finale) but there's so many pills, which are used instantly and they don't give as many points, but some levels can have a buttload of them so it seems like you are using more health items in it.

The only place where I actually think the pills are that bad is the finale. If you're terrible otherwise, at least you can set a goal and say "Maybe if we keep trying, we will be able to take Anchovy down three times, and feel good about ourselves!" But on the finale, normally you have to find time to use a medkit between hordes or whatever, instead of being able to instantly take pills and outrun the tank. But that could just be me. (plus you can carry your pills and your medkit on the finale)

 

[Red Scarlet]

Yes I know. But when you can get so many pills, it's preventable to just get +50 bonuses throughout the map when you get past their 3+1's that don't quad you.

I just think they should maximize the # of pills in Frustian's instead of there being enough pills for everyone to chug up to 3 apiece a map.

 

[vertopci]

Yes, but when you can get up to 9 of them a map, it's not that different from 4-5 kits, imo. There's no 5 second delay to heal, it's about a half second. Your score is way lower without kits, yeah, but when you get a lot of healing items in that mode too, it doesn't feel that different healthwise. One guy said he wanted to make a mod without starting with pills, maybe only find them along the way, but maybe they'll make a maximum # of pills too.

I know Frustian's also has a tank each map and no tier 2's except sniper until the finale.

Except you can't cure B&W status with them. And getting 9 pills in a map means you would have gotten around 6 or 7 kits. And pills are temporary.

Plus most maps you don't get anywhere near 9 pills. The exception being Pill Harvest 3 :lol

 

[RocketDarkness]

One issue I have with Frusmod is that it takes away most of the strategic choices regarding healing. If you're anywhere near low, you're going to pop your pills. Since there's no way to up your maximum number of incaps allowed, you'll want to avoid incaps at all cost. With both medkits and pills, the choices become a little bit more strategic: do you pop pills and risk wasting them if nothing happens? Do you medkit after your first down, and save the pills for a moment when you don't have the time to use a medkit?

It also gets rid of the possibility of guessing wrong in regards to health item spawns later in the level. God knows how many times I've popped pills to preserve medkits, and then run into an extra medkit at the next item spawn, or vice versa. Since you've only got one option for health items, the last thing you want to do is be overly conservative and risk wasting pill spawns.

I dunno, I can have fun in either setting.

 

[Red Scarlet]

All I'm saying is that they should limit the # of pills if it's so 'hardcore' of a mod. You wind up 'healing' more when you get all those pills and no kits that use up more time to use.

 

[Twig]

lololol shitty "hardcore" playaz and HARDCORE mode with fucked up shitty imbalanced settings

l2p nubs

l2p

 

[vertopci]

One issue I have with Frusmod is that it takes away most of the strategic choices regarding healing. If you're anywhere near low, you're going to pop your pills. Since there's no way to up your maximum number of incaps allowed, you'll want to avoid incaps at all cost. With both medkits and pills, the choices become a little bit more strategic: do you pop pills and risk wasting them if nothing happens? Do you medkit after your first down, and save the pills for a moment when you don't have the time to use a medkit?

Well on CEVO settings where you had 4 kits, there wasn't much strategy either. Save up kits to use before the tank comes was basically it.

All I'm saying is that they should limit the # of pills if it's so 'hardcore' of a mod. You wind up 'healing' more when you get all those pills and no kits that use up more time to use.

On most maps, you aren't going to get more than 4/5 pills most of which will be replacing health kits since director seems to not like spawning pills. And I still don't know what you mean by healing more.

 

[RocketDarkness]

Well on CEVO settings where you had 4 kits, there wasn't much strategy either. Save up kits to use before the tank comes was basically it.

I know I doomed my team more than a few times by holding onto my kit for too long, resulting in my incap leading to the wipe of the rest of my team.

 

[Concept17]

All kits are replaced with pills. So you technically have less healing power...

Aside from that, what other changes is there? I've never played the mod, but just swapping kits for pills sounds kinda silly.

I agree with you that, atleast on L4D1, campaign is pretty worthless. It was fun on expert for the first couple months of the game's life, but got old quickly.

 

[Red Scarlet]

CEVO is definitely not as fun to watch/play as Frus; it's just normal mode lite, imo. If they maxed the # of pills, I'd be a-ok with Frusmod overall. Although a *possible* tier 2 spawn on a level before the finale could be kind of cool, like how they work in the finale. But I know some/a lot of people would be against that. There will probably never be a universal one that everyone likes.

I do wonder, if there are cevo/frusmod servers on the 360 version.

And I still don't know what you mean by healing more.

Since it's almost instant, you are going to use every pill you find until you get to the end where you save your last ones, so you wind up healing whenever you find pills, which are very often in some maps (Pill Harvest 3, for example).

Aside from that, what other changes is there? I've never played the mod, but just swapping kits for pills sounds kinda silly.

Frustian's mod has these things that I'm aware of on the top of my head:

No medkits, 4 pills at the start and all med items picked up are pills. Until the finale, where there are kits at the end and maybe at the beginning..can't remember. There are no kits in the game until the finale level.

Only primary guns available until the finale level are pistols, shotty, and uzi. On tier 2 weapon pickup spots, you will find a replacement shotty or uzi and a sniper rifle. You cannot get an assault rifle or auto shotgun until the finale level, when at the start you can get 1 assault rifle and 1 auto shotty, then 1 more of each at the radio.

Tank spawns every map. Tanks cannot be prelit; if a Tank is lit during the AI control initial period, the Tank is unlit and back at 6000HP when a player takes control.

AFAIK those are the main things in the mod. Limited tier 2's until finale, no medkits until finale, always a tank, no prelighting.

 

[PillowKnight]

All I'm saying is that they should limit the # of pills if it's so 'hardcore' of a mod. You wind up 'healing' more when you get all those pills and no kits that use up more time to use.

Yeah, i agree, although that would almost make the game too hard. It's tough enough with T1 and a tank every match that most teams will struggle to beat a stage even with infinite pills.

 

[Blizzard]

lololol shitty "hardcore" playaz and HARDCORE mode with fucked up shitty imbalanced settings

l2p nubs

l2p

As was pointed out, you can just go try the match-making thing. You'll end up with a random team of four players, if it works. In my case, I ran to the end virtually untouched, and another player followed me. The two we left behind made it in the end as well. I didn't even use any medkits. Had I been sticking with my team and using medkits, you would THINK it would be even easier, wouldn't you?

I understand that you like insulting people who like weird mods and trying to get a rise out of them, but at least try playing a decent team on normal settings, and then tell me that it's too hard for survivors.

 

[vertopci]

Aside from that, what other changes is there? I've never played the mod, but just swapping kits for pills sounds kinda silly.

I agree with you that, atleast on L4D1, campaign is pretty worthless. It was fun on expert for the first couple months of the game's life, but got old quickly.

Tanks every level.

Frusmod has the addition of replacing all tier 2 spawns with uzi,pump shotty and sniper rifle. During map 5, you get one auto shotty and one assault rifle in the saferoom and one of each at the finale radio.

lololol shitty "hardcore" playaz and HARDCORE mode with fucked up shitty imbalanced settings

l2p nubs

l2p

Says the dude who whines everytime he loses in VS mode. :lol

 

[Twig]

As was pointed out, you can just go try the match-making thing. You'll end up with a random team of four players, if it works. In my case, I ran to the end virtually untouched, and another player followed me. The two we left behind made it in the end as well. I didn't even use any medkits. Had I been sticking with my team and using medkits, you would THINK it would be even easier, wouldn't you?

I understand that you like insulting people who like weird mods and trying to get a rise out of them, but at least try playing a decent team on normal settings, and then tell me that it's too hard for survivors.

wat

I have no idea what you are saying. D:

 

[Red Scarlet]

Added what I know about Frustian's above, but I'm not sure if that is what all is encompassed.

 

[Oreoleo]

wat

I have no idea what you are saying. D:

 

[Sibylus]

I didn't really like CEVO at all, Frusmod was a pretty clear improvement. I still play vanilla Versus as well, but I do like Frusmod because human teams wipe often. I like my zombie slaying gametypes really challenging.

 

[Red Scarlet]

I think part of it comes down to what you prefer the game being 'more difficult' for..on vanilla it is harder for the infected to finish the survivors off, while in Frusmod they have a much better chance at doing so.

 

[Twig]

Says the dude who whines everytime he loses in VS mode. :lol

You've never played real versus with me, how would you know!

(I do it for the lulz.)

I like my zombie slaying gametypes really challenging.

I like my survivor slaying gametypes to be really challenging. Shitty HARDCORE shitty shit just makes it too easy.

EDIT: Wut Red sed.

 

[vertopci]

I think part of it comes down to what you prefer the game being 'more difficult' for..on vanilla it is harder for the infected to finish the survivors off, while in Frusmod they have a much better chance at doing so.

In vanilla, it's pretty much impossible to wipe out a half decent team. You would have to get lucky with the tank spawn and hittable objects.

Vanilla is EZ mode for survivors.

 

[Red Scarlet]

Good teams can get wiped in both modes. It's just more likely to happen in Frusmod if you look at what's available. Some teams ace Frusmod, too.

 

[PillowKnight]

Good teams can get wiped in both modes. It's just more likely to happen in Frusmod if you look at what's available. Some teams ace Frusmod, too.

I think we have a very different definition of good.

 

[Twig]

I think we have a very different definition of good.

Yes. Your definition of a "good" infected team is one that actually sucks at killing survivors.

 

[vertopci]

Good teams can get wiped in both modes. It's just more likely to happen in Frusmod if you look at what's available. Some teams ace Frusmod, too.

No they really can't get wiped out in both modes. It is near impossible to wipe out a good team in vanilla L4D. Fact.

Yes. Your definition of a "good" infected team is one that actually sucks at killing survivors.

Says the guy who doesn't know shit about versus mode

 

[Twig]

I love facts.

Let's talk facts.

You play weakling mode. Fact.

(Isn't this the exact same argument we had, what, a week or two ago?)

Says the guy who doesn't shit about versus mode

wat

I have no idea what you are saying.

Oh, "know." Okay Mr. Sucks At Infected. Talk to me again when you stop sucking. Sucky McSuckington.

 

[Red Scarlet]

Yes they can. Please stop talking out of your ass. You can still get quad-capped in vanilla. No amount of medkits gets you out of a quad-cap.

 

[Twig]

The best Left 4 Dead mod I ever played was Hunter Tag.

You should set that up on your server, vert. ):

 

[vertopci]

Yes they can. Please stop talking out of your ass. You can still get quad-capped in vanilla.

A good team will skeet/deadstop at least one of the hunters. Even in gaf games, this happens.

 

[Twig]

A good team will skeet/deadstop at least one of the hunters. Even in gaf games, this happens.

Good job shitty infected letting that happen.

 

[Red Scarlet]

Championship teams have been quadded, which can still happen in vanilla.

How'd you do in your matches? I only saw a scrim.

 

[Sibylus]

I'd enjoy vanilla Versus more if packs were much more rare or less uniformly distributed. Can get a bit wearying when you're effectively trying to kill medpacks and not people.

The best Left 4 Dead mod I ever played was Hunter Tag.

Hehe, good times.

 

[vertopci]

Championship teams have been quadded, which can still happen in vanilla.

How'd you do in your matches? I only saw a scrim.

Yes they have been quadded, but how often does it work? Rarely.

As for our matches...ok I guess...

6 and 1 in our alienware group; newegg tournies were both fail.

We got a lucky ass quad cap to win the game in one!

Spoiler

Doesn't help support your case though as we failed teh other million times we attempted it

 

[Red Scarlet]

Yeah, but it does work, and can work in vanilla, too.

Anyway, tired of the back and forth, I wonder what weapons they'll remove in 2's version of Frustian's or what they have planned on doing.

Did you happen to play against the cheating team? RIP/Mytime?

 

[PillowKnight]

Yes. Your definition of a "good" infected team is one that actually sucks at killing survivors.

Now you're just trolling!

Yes they can. Please stop talking out of your ass. You can still get quad-capped in vanilla. No amount of medkits gets you out of a quad-cap.

It's super hard to do though. On most maps there are only 3 or so opportunities to quad cap, and the odds of someone being stopped are insanely high. I'm curious if you've seen enough championship matches to tell if it's common or not(I don't really watch l4d versus matches).

As for the tourney, we generally beat a bunch of scrub teams and then lose to one of the really good team. It's somewhere between really fun and extremely frustrating, but the last team we lost against wasn't quite god tier so we put up a decent fight(lost 3k to 1.5k I think).

 

[vertopci]

Yeah, but it does work, and can work in vanilla, too.

Anyway, tired of the back and forth, I wonder what weapons they'll remove in 2's version of Frustian's or what they have planned on doing.

Did you happen to play against the cheating team? RIP/Mytime?

Where did you hear they were cheating...? They were one of the several really good teams that came out of nowhere during the Alienware tourney.

Spoiler

Funny how Eximus is no longer the best or even top 3 anymore

 

[Red Scarlet]

I've pretty much watched every vid from l4dnao.com/pwnagetv/efragtv from the last couple of months. It happens maybe once a game, sometimes more, sometimes less, and every now and then on the finale.

Where did you hear they were cheating...? They were one of the several really good teams that came out of nowhere during the Alienware tourney.

Spoiler

Funny how Eximus is no longer the best or even top 3 anymore

They were disqualified from the Alienware tournament after it was determined the guy named MyTime was using wallhacks. There's some youtube videos about it, the actual demo files don't work anymore. They were dq'd (after being the winner), MyTime guy was booted from the team and hasn't been seen since afaik, and RIP changed their name.

 

[PillowKnight]

I've pretty much watched every vid from l4dnao.com/pwnagetv/efragtv from the last couple of months. It happens maybe once a game, sometimes more, sometimes less, and every now and then on the finale.

We could use you! You should be our coach for the next tournament.

 

[Red Scarlet]

We could use you! You should be our couch for the next tournament.

Don't sit on me, you will injure me.