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[Messofanego]

The Paedophile Next Door Channel 4 UK documentary, 25th Nov 2014 (use Hotspot Shield or other means to watch it). Worth watching to get insight in a more comprehensive way than Louis Theroux' piece.

"At the moment, we only engage with pedophiles after they've become offenders. But if talking works, wouldn't it be better to do it before pedophiles act on their desires? Because that would mean fewer victims."​

Eddie:

"People won't listen. People will automatically assume that you will at some point abuse a child and there's no way of helping you."​

Investigative journalist, Tim Tate:

"We have to talk to pedophiles. We have to listen to pedophiles. However unpleasant what they may have to say is. We have to listen and we have to understand."​

We've been going about dealing with pedophiles in completely the wrong way for so long. Demonising pedophiles, equating "pedophile" with "child rapist" or waiting in the wings to become one, forcing them out of our neighbourhoods where they're transferred to places out of sight and mind, driving them underground, has done little to reduce prevalance of child sex abuse cases. That stress on pedophiles has only increased the chances of abuse and them acting out on their desires. Majority of child sex abuse happens in the family, which is harder to report. Why don't we reach out to pedophiles for them to seek care without risk of incarceration?

Look, let's get this straight. Once a pedophile has abused a child, they deserve all the scorn. You can't get consent from children no matter how much someone tries to argue for it like PIE (Paedophile Information Exchange) did in the 70s-80s (mentioned at 18:45 of docu), because they're just not mentally developed enough. But if you haven't acted on your pedophilic desires, do you still deserve violent hatred for an innate sexual desire?

As the documentary shows, there are so-called virtuous pedophiles who are law-abiding citizens that haven't acted out. One of them, Eddie, talks openly about it with his face visible which is rare for a pedophile.

At the end of the docu, Eddie meets Steve, a man who was sexually abused at boarding school and they discuss some things in an adult manner. And then he writes a letter to his mom about this.

There are a lot of male pedophiles who also have attraction to women hence why some get married. Why force pedophiles to cope with their problems all alone and have no ability to come forward to seek help? There should be nothing wrong with a support network for them if it's properly regulated to reduce further abuse. It's because pedophiles had to go underground that organisations like PIE developed for a community to develop that shared child sex abuse tapes and locations of targets. If they can come out in the open, they're less likely to resort to such dangerous circles (can see parallels to hate groups or cults). They're not putting children at risk by seeking care. They're more likely to reduce chances of that ever happening.

Germany has been employing radical strategies like (38:18 of docu) with the Prevention Project Dunkelfeld, and they have garnered enough attention that other organisations like NSPCC (National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children) in UK are hoping to adopt similar approaches. A FAQ of their program (CBT, sex therapy, medication, empathy exercises, making sure they don't resort to watching child pornography).

Don't Offend ad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck3uOCyWB50
Do you like children in ways you shouldn't? ad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSvrDjOh2dc

We all want to prevent child sex abuse, so rather than provoking pedophiles to hide and become universal punching bags leading to less people brought forward, we have to accept pedophilia is a reality and work to help those people through this disorder. We might not be able to fix a pedophile's issues, but realising certain elements in the first place is a step forward to prevent criminal actions. Or it'll begin all anew in decades to come as revolving media retrospectives.

"If we don't, then, in another 30 years, we'll be hearing from the generations of victims that were abused today - that's our children - and asking ourselves, why didn't we do more to help them at the time?"​

 

[Fenderputty]

People shouldn't be judged on thoughts alone. It's difficult though, because of the innocence of the child. People will always be more cautious.

This topic has popped up on GAF over the years and it's an issue that I've shifted on. I used to be much more anti-pedo. But the arguments make sense IMO.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

While I agree a discussion about how to move forward needs to happen, the while subject is just too laced with emotion for a lot of people and they simply aren't able to discuss this in a rational manner.

Politicians won't dare try to start a debate out of fear of losing their seat or papers labelling them as Paedo sympathizers, so we're essentially stuck.

 

[Alienous]

I feel sympathy for pedophiles who have not abused children. Having to constantly resist your sexual urges must be torture. I hope they can get help.

I think, for so many people, the idea of being sexually attracted to children is foreign to them, and that's why it's so difficult to empathize.

 

[plasmawave]

Check out the documentary "the boy with the henna tattoo". It's beyond fucked up.

 

[KHarvey16]

Politicians won't dare try to start a debate out of fear of losing their seat or papers labelling them as Paedo sympathizers, so we're essentially stuck.

This is probably the biggest problem, and moreso since it doesn't just apply to politicians. Even discussions here about treating those with an attraction to children as opposed to jailing, killing or isolating them on an island in the middle of the ocean can be met with subtle and not so subtle accusations. Imagine what it would be like in the real world for anyone to bring up the subject with anything approaching nuance or understanding.

 

[Extra Sauce]

I used to be much more anti-pedo. But the arguments make sense IMO.

This sounds hilariously messed up when taken out of context.

 

[Bold One]

Sounds like a job for the Pedo-finder General

 

[freenudemacusers]

i understand the argument for counseling, but i just can't deal on an emotional level. i don't know what the solution is, aren't these people broken on a fundamental level?

Check out the documentary "the boy with the henna tattoo". It's beyond fucked up.

..jesus fucking christ.

 

[Dryk]

Politicians won't dare try to start a debate out of fear of losing their seat or papers labelling them as Paedo sympathizers, so we're essentially stuck.

It's frustrating because as the article points out, doing nothing will probably lead to more harm in the long run. But leaders won't lead out of (the justified) fear that people will take them the wrong way.

People suck

i understand the argument for counseling, but i just can't deal on an emotional level. i don't know what the solution is, aren't these people broken on a fundamental level?

Probably, but that's not their fault and we shouldn't be blaming them for it like we are.

 

[freddy]

I think there was a thread on voluntary euthanasia for a criminal not long ago. People like this should start campaigning for the same rights instead of expecting sympathy. Removing themselves from the gene pool is the right answer.

 

[Bit-Bit]

My thoughts on pedophiles changed after that amazing NPR report. We should be sad for them and offer as many help avenues as possible instead of pre-judging and condemning them.

 

[ivysaur12]

I don't even know, it's so hard.

On one hand, my automatic reaction is burn the witch, but on the other… what have they done? They haven't touched a kid. And can they really help their attraction? We should do as much as we can to help them, if that's even possible.

 

[ahoyhoy]

I think there was a thread on voluntary euthanasia for a criminal not long ago. People like this should start campaigning for the same rights instead of expecting sympathy. Removing themselves from the gene pool is the right answer.

They are no different than those with strong thoughts of raping adults, assaulting others, murdering others etc. We seek to reform those who have not acted on their desires, why should they be different?

If they want help, it should be provided to the fullest extent to ensure they as individuals can live a healthy lifestyle and that others like them come forward without fear of reprisal. Your mindset will only ensure they feel marginalized, stay hidden, and potentially lash out and act on their urges akin to the monsters you make them out to be.

 

[Petrie]

Anyone against this is quite literally for children being abused. The only thing that comes from not helping these people is more child abuse. If you claim to be anything other than in favor of this type of support, you are pro child abuse.

 

[-COOLIO-]

"At the moment, we only engage with pedophiles after they've become offenders. But if talking works, wouldn't it be better to do it before pedophiles act on their desires? Because that would mean fewer victims."

agreed.

 

[kirblar]

Medium.com had a feature on teenage/young-adult pedophiles struggling to cope with it. Sadly, one of the people involved is clearly expressing signs of the type of self-justifying speech you see out of offenders later in life, while many of the others seem much more self-aware. Link's here, but I will caution there's explicit descriptions of child porn in here that would make this NSFW and inappropriate if you have any sort of history/issues with this stuff that you're working through.

 

[guggnichso]

nvm

 

[CountAntonius]

"We have to talk to pedophiles. We have to listen to pedophiles. However unpleasant what they may have to say is. We have to listen and we have to understand."[/INDENT]

This is very important and should apply to everyone who commits a heinous crime.

 

[And_Gignac]

I think there was a thread on voluntary euthanasia for a criminal not long ago. People like this should start campaigning for the same rights instead of expecting sympathy. Removing themselves from the gene pool is the right answer.

It makes so sad when I read arguments like this, so fucking devoid of empathy, to the point of proposing silly, Nazi-like eugenics.

 

[Petrie]

It makes so sad when I read arguments like this, so fucking devoid of empathy, to the point of proposing silly, Nazi-like eugenics.

Especially given the surprisingly high likelihood the poster suffers from this to some degree.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

The Woodsman with Kevin Bacon is a fantastic film. He plays a pedophile who returns to his home town, ten years after having been to prison. It is, haunting. It is worth watching.


You see the struggles of a human being who has to place, and there is no forgiveness for what he has done, but he is still fighting with the urges. As said by someone else in the thread, sexual offenders (pedophile, and other types of sexually disturbed people) seem incapable of not acting out on their urges. It seems to happen sooner or later.

 

[Dryk]

Especially given the surprisingly high likelihood the poster suffers from this to some degree.

Or some other urge or trait that "the gene pool would be better off without"

 

[SquiddyCracker]

I do pity them, and hope that we'll seen get the advances we need in neuroscience to actually figure out a way of curing them of their depravity, perhaps through a combination of neurosurgery and hormonal adjustments. Until then, chemical castration is a 100% sure-way method of making sure they don't actually molest a child.

 

[Emerson]

I do pity them, and hope that we'll seen get the advances we need in neuroscience to actually figure out a way of curing them of their depravity, perhaps through a combination of neurosurgery and hormonal adjustments. Until then, chemical castration is a 100% sure-way method of making sure they don't actually molest a child.

This is actual insanity. Are you advocating for preventatively castrating pedophiles who haven't abused children? You're talking about literal thoughtcrime.

 

[The One and Done™]

I don't know what I expected

 

[Brazil]

I do pity them, and hope that we'll seen get the advances we need in neuroscience to actually figure out a way of curing them of their depravity, perhaps through a combination of neurosurgery and hormonal adjustments. Until then, chemical castration is a 100% sure-way method of making sure they don't actually molest a child.

You were doing so well with the first part of your post.

 

[Sai-kun]

This is actual insanity. Are you advocating for preventatively castrating pedophiles who haven't abused children? You're talking about literal thoughtcrime.

it's squiddycracker

 

[Truant]

The Woodsman with Kevin Bacon is a fantastic film. He plays a pedophile who returns to his home town, ten years after having been to prison. It is, haunting. It is worth watching.


You see the struggles of a human being who has to place, and there is no forgiveness for what he has done, but he is still fighting with the urges. As said by someone else in the thread, sexual offenders (pedophile, and other types of sexually disturbed people) seem incapable of not acting out on their urges. It seems to happen sooner or later.

Try not acting on your own desires. I can't even imagine what it's like. I imagine most pedophiles are morally sound people who never live with their urges, or date younger women as some form of compromise. Most of them probably don't even view themselves as pedophiles since they haven't actually engaged in sexual contact with children.

 

[CLEEK]

I do pity them, and hope that we'll seen get the advances we need in neuroscience to actually figure out a way of curing them of their depravity, perhaps through a combination of neurosurgery and hormonal adjustments. Until then, chemical castration is a 100% sure-way method of making sure they don't actually molest a child.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Try not acting on your own desires. I can't even imagine what it's like. I imagine most pedophiles are morally sound people who never live with their urges, or date younger women as some form of compromise. Most of them probably don't even view themselves as pedophiles since they haven't actually engaged in sexual contact with children.

Is that what is going on in Japan? It's frequently brought up how they idolize high school girls. And even if it's like "it is okay she is legal" but looks like a child, what exactly is going on there? What is a culture fascinated by youth, and what is mentally disturbing perversion?

 

[freddy]

They are no different than those with strong thoughts of raping adults, assaulting others, murdering others etc. We seek to reform those who have not acted on their desires, why should they be different?

If they want help, it should be provided to the fullest extent to ensure they as individuals can live a healthy lifestyle and that others like them come forward without fear of reprisal. Your mindset will only ensure they feel marginalized, stay hidden, and potentially lash out and act on their urges akin to the monsters you make them out to be.

If some of them have uncontrollable urges they find disgusting then they should have the option of making sure they never hurt an innocent child. If its ok for a criminal who can't control themselves why not allow these people to take the honourable way out?

It makes so sad when I read arguments like this, so fucking devoid of empathy, to the point of proposing silly, Nazi-like eugenics.

The Nazis exterminated people against their will. Euthanasia is quite different. Look it up.

 

[Stet]

I do pity them, and hope that we'll seen get the advances we need in neuroscience to actually figure out a way of curing them of their depravity, perhaps through a combination of neurosurgery and hormonal adjustments. Until then, chemical castration is a 100% sure-way method of making sure they don't actually molest a child.

you're a worse troll than you were a real poster

 

[KHarvey16]

If some of them have uncontrollable urges they find disgusting then they should have the option of making sure they never hurt an innocent child. If its ok for a criminal who can't control themselves why not allow these people to take the honourable way out?

Just to be clear, you think a person born with a condition they have no control over is being dishonorable for not killing themselves?

 

[MrSaturn99]

A high school classmate of mine was arrested in a child porn sting the other month (I made a GAF thread about it if anyone remembers). Really put this whole issue into perspective for me.

 

[freddy]

Just to be clear, you think a person born with a condition they have no control over is being dishonorable for not killing themselves?

No, but I would find it very honourable if they chose to do so.

 

[DOWN]

I think it's only rational to realize that they are people with attractions they didn't choose. If they can and want to refrain from acting on them or hurting children, why can't we acknowledge them and help make sure they get that chance to safely live?

 

[C.Dark.DN]

No, but I would find it very honourable if they chose to do so.

Why do they need to kill themselves? How about they just choose to not procreate? In the meantime, they could get enough help to enjoy life while not acting on urges?

 

[Josh7289]

If some of them have uncontrollable urges they find disgusting then they should have the option of making sure they never hurt an innocent child. If its ok for a criminal who can't control themselves why not allow these people to take the honourable way out?

The Nazis exterminated people against their will. Euthanasia is quite different. Look it up.

You're talking about creating an environment where social pressure drives people who are different to suicide. The end result is no different from the Nazis' direct genocide.

It goes without saying that child abuse must be punished appropriately, but pedophiles, in particular those who haven't abused children, should be helped by society to control their urges and live normal lives. The more openly we as a society can talk about this biological and psychological problem, the better we may understand it and possibly be able to prevent it from arising in the first place. At the very least, we can help prevent abuse from actually happening by creating a safe environment for pedophiles to come forward about their urges and receive help to control them.

If we just cover up the problem and try to suppress it, pedophiles won't get help and will be much more likely to become abusers. It would be counterproductive toward the goal of preventing child abuse.

 

[Brakke]

You guys took a thread about looking at a complicated thing soberly and went immediately to lunatic nonsense. Great work.

 

[KHarvey16]

No, but I would find it very honourable if they chose to do so.

"I'm not saying you're bad if you don't kill yourself, but it would be great if you did!"

I'm pretty sure thinking this way without realizing how childish and primitive it is suggests the existence of a harmful cognitive disability you might have otherwise felt lends itself to a similarly honorable final solution.

 

[freddy]

Why do they need to kill themselves? How about they just choose to not procreate? In the meantime, they could get enough help to enjoy life while not acting on urges?

Yes, as someone else said chemical castration is also an option if they feel they cannot control themselves but they should also have the right to legally euthanise themselves.

You're talking about creating an environment where social pressure drives people who are different to suicide. The end result is no different from the Nazis' direct genocide.

We'll just have to disagree here. You're stretching to create this connection.

 

[Aiustis]

There was something on NPR about this maybe a few years ago. I guy running a support group for non offending pedophiles. Really interesting read.

Edit: it was April of last year

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/522/tarred-and-feathered?act=2

 

[Deft Beck]

They deserve to receive treatment and therapy to deal with their urges before they hurt anybody.

No one deserves to be demonized. To remove one's humanity is the worst thing you can do to someone.

 

[G-Bus]

Heterosexual, homosexual, pedophilia, zoophilia, people who love inanimate objects.

the human mind is a weird thing.

I am totally in the group that thinks these people need a way to get help.

 

[Josh7289]

Yes, as someone else said chemical castration is also an option if they feel they cannot control themselves but they should also have the right to legally euthanise themselves.

We'll just have to disagree here. You're stretching to create this connection.

I don't think I am at all. If society hates and ridicules a certain group of people and repeatedly tells them they're worthless, they will be driven to higher rates of suicide. Yeah, in the end it's the individuals themselves taking their own lives, but when the choice is a living hell or death, many, maybe even most, will choose the latter. It's not hard to see how this form of 'hate leading to death' is hardly different from more direct hate-based homicide or genocide.

 

[bigkrev]

I think if we as a society used the term "Pedosexual" to refer to someone who was sexually attracted to children instead of "Pedophile", it would be beneficial.

 

[Stet]

I think if we as a society used the term "Pedosexual" to refer to someone who was sexually attracted to children instead of "Pedophile", it would be beneficial.

hang on, why?

 

[Deified Data]

I think if we as a society used the term "Pedosexual" to refer to someone who was sexually attracted to children instead of "Pedophile", it would be beneficial.

Probably not directly analogous. Homosexual or heterosexual imply exclusive attraction to the same or different genders respectively. I don't think being a pedophile necessarily prevents one from being attracted to adults. Though I'm sure that's not always the case. Like most avenues of human sexuality it's hard to put it in a box and give it a concrete label.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Yes, as someone else said chemical castration is also an option if they feel they cannot control themselves but they should also have the right to legally euthanise themselves.

We'll just have to disagree here. You're stretching to create this connection.

The OP isn't even about those who can't control themselves. It's about those who can and who deal with their issue alone.

Voluntary euthanasia doesn't really serve a purpose here. It even goes against the OP:

Demonising pedophiles, equating "pedophile" with "child rapist" or waiting in the wings to become one, forcing them out of our neighbourhoods where they're transferred to places out of sight and mind, driving them underground, has done little to reduce prevalance of child sex abuse cases. That stress on pedophiles has only increased the chances of abuse and them acting out on their desires.

Feeding off of Josh's post, society pressuring them to legally kill themselves is not going to help.