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[Crimson-Death]

Apologies to Canada on behalf of half of the population with some functioning neurons here in the US. There were just too many morons voting their lemming leader into power this time around.
So, so sorry.

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

This will sink the CAD a bit (how much? i don't know) since we are a resource based economy. the job losses will have the larger impact in the economy as a whole.

It got to 1.45/1 about 18 months ago and that was the highest rate in a good decade or so. The highest rate ever was 1.61/1 and right now, it's 1.35/1. A lot of things are going to unfold in the coming weeks, months, and years that's really going to dictate how things are gonna go. Just looking at the data, 2017 has been good for the stock market and the US Dollar.

If you think Trump will continue that trend, then it's likely the rate will go higher, possibly passing the one from a couple of years ago and approaching or even surpassing the all time high. If you think Trump will just coast and not much will change, then the rate will fluctuate between 1.20 and 1.40/1. If you think Trump will buckle and collapse the US economy, then the reverse will be true and the historical low rate of .91/1 could be approached.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

Of course in theory it could work perfectly if we didn't have the human factor always messing things up. And like you said, civil rights is a clear example of how states rights is just a terrible option. People think it's an extreme though and in reality it would very much be happening right now if it weren't for the federal government stepping in. Hell it continues to this day with the LGBTQ community getting oppressed because of states rights.

I think we can agree that on some level, morality is universal. When it comes to moral questions, I'm absolutely against provincial rights. Molarity doesn't change across borders.

But economic and day-to-day tasks, those are best handled locally IMO. Federal government should be for moral questions, military, inter-provincial infrastructure, currency, harmonizing regulations and trade barriers between the provinces etc.

Edit: oh if we're talking about a North American union, then the top level of government should be purely for moral and maybe free trade/movement reasons, nothing else. It shouldn't even be a government, just an agreement and a court to enforce it. But really, Canada and the US aren't going to be in a free movement union. Canada has much higher taxes on the wealthy to fund social services. All the rich people would just move to the US.

 

[djkimothy]

Apologies to Canada on behalf of half of the population with some functioning neurons here in the US. There were just too many morons voting their lemming leader into power this time around.
So, so sorry.

Apparently we "outsmarted American politicians" before, we'll do it again. How's your power grid doing?

 

[Fenderputty]

Then leave the backward ass states or change the constitution. That's what you don't seem to get. I would never live in Kansas or West Virginia.

I don't feel like reading 4 pages of replies to understand how a thread on trade between Canada and US resulted in this asinine comment. Can somone give me an abridged update?

 

[m23]

Barely any talk about the softwood lumber tariffs in a thread about the softwood lumber tariffs.

 

[djkimothy]

Barely any talk about the softwood lumber tariffs in a thread about the softwood lumber tariffs.

I'm trying. I don't know where this talk about annexing Canada comes from. I'm missing out on Power and Politics. Will have to wait for tomorrow's pod cast to see what they have to say. It's frustrating that none of the american news outlets have picked up much on this. At least not on their youtube channels.

 

[lacinius]

And CETA isn't in full force until a few years from this month. I thought tariffs were dropping this month. I haven't heard news yet. Last I heard the ball was in Canada's court as the EU voted already in Parliament in March.

Right now CETA is before the Canadian Senate, and once passed and receives Royal Assent then CETA will be provisionally implemented on the first day of the next month, and most believe that will be June 1, 2017. Full implementation of CETA won't happen until all members of the EU pass CETA individually, but the EU will provisionally apply most parts of CETA aside from these items that will wait until full implementation:

◾investment protection
◾investment market access for portfolio investment (but market access for foreign direct investment is an exclusive EU competence)
◾the Investment Court System
◾an article on camcording

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

I don't feel like reading 4 pages of replies to understand how a thread on trade between Canada and US resulted in this asinine comment. Can somone give me an abridged update?

Nothing asinine about that. That's your abridged update.

 

[old]

Nobody is annexing Canada over lumber. Now in 50 years when we start running out of fresh drinking water.. maybe then.

I'm already calling Canada "Number 51".

Do we add another star or perhaps a maple leaf to our flag?

 

[Tovarisc]

Canada foreign minister on Trump tariffs: 'We're going to play hard'

Canada is ready to play hard ball with President Trump.

Canadian leaders are pushing back after the Trump administration slapped 20% tariffs Monday night on Canadian lumber, along with individual tariffs on five specific firms that ranged from 3% to 24%.

"When it comes to defending Canada's economic interests, we're going to play hard," Canada's Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland told CNN Tuesday.

Freeland's sharp reminder: We like to be nice, but don't mess with us.

"We're nice guys: Politeness is something we believe is a national virtue, but it's not an accident that hockey is our national sport," Freeland noted.

President Trump separately told reporters he's not afraid of a trade war with Canada: "We have massive trade deficits. So when we're the country with the deficits, we have no fear."

U.S. Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross also said Tuesday at the White House that Canada wasn't being a "good neighbor," alleging it was selling lumber at unfair prices.

and a lot more at http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/25/new...nada-tariffs1033PMVODtopPhoto&linkId=36898627

 

[djkimothy]

I'm already calling Canada "Number 51".

Do we add another star or perhaps a maple leaf to our flag?

Don't forget, we have a population about as large as California and so would expect an electoral college value of about the same. And we would consistently be a safe state for democrats. Unless you split up the provinces. But even then i think alberta would vote democrat.

 

[darscot]

What is with Trump and "trade deficit"? Can some one let him know the US is the biggest consumer.

 

[killer rin]

Don't forget, we have a population about as large as California and so would expect an electoral college value of about the same. And we would consistently be a safe state for democrats. Unless you split up the provinces. But even then i think alberta would vote democrat.

Not even that. We would keep our own parties. Why the fuck would we vote Democrat or Republican when the Liberal/Conservative and NDP will register as official USA parties and run their slate of candidates under brands we know and "trust" (atleast more than the USA ones)

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

Canada foreign minister on Trump tariffs: 'We're going to play hard'

Canada is ready to play hard ball with President Trump.

Canadian leaders are pushing back after the Trump administration slapped 20% tariffs Monday night on Canadian lumber, along with individual tariffs on five specific firms that ranged from 3% to 24%.

"When it comes to defending Canada's economic interests, we're going to play hard," Canada's Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland told CNN Tuesday.

Freeland's sharp reminder: We like to be nice, but don't mess with us.

"We're nice guys: Politeness is something we believe is a national virtue, but it's not an accident that hockey is our national sport," Freeland noted.

President Trump separately told reporters he's not afraid of a trade war with Canada: "We have massive trade deficits. So when we're the country with the deficits, we have no fear."

U.S. Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross also said Tuesday at the White House that Canada wasn't being a "good neighbor," alleging it was selling lumber at unfair prices.

and a lot more at http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/25/new...nada-tariffs1033PMVODtopPhoto&linkId=36898627

Cringe. This is going to be good for Trudeau's approval rating though.

 

[darscot]

Cringe. This is going to be good for Trudeau's approval rating though.

If you watch the video she is well spoken and tame. Quotes are cherry picked for headlines.

 

[Xando]

What is with Trump and "trade deficit"? Can some one let him know the US is the biggest consumer.

He's an idiot that doesn't realize the US isn't a manufacturing country anymore but instead imports large quantities of industry from China and Germany.


American manufacturing is too expensive to rival china and too low quality to rival germany.

 

[Pedrito]

What is with Trump and "trade deficit"? Can some one let him know the US is the biggest consumer.

He probably sees "deficit" and think it means the US is losing money. He'll get a big surprise when he realizes that the US has a negative trade balance vs. just about every other large countries.

Cringe. This is going to be good for Trudeau's approval rating though.

That hockey line is so freaking corny. We deserve a trade war for that only.

 

[Grizzle_Dat]

I have no problem with this Tarrif. Canada maintains a high tariff on imported dairy products so american businesses can't sell dairy there. This tarrif on lumber is just a shot across the bow that is leveling the playing field. In the end these tarrifs will go away when the dairy tarrifs go away.

 

[Pomerlaw]

Canada engages in too much protectionism, especially with dairy, to be complaining about anything. Go Trump! Stand up for the US. Whatever Trudeau accuses us of, it's the pot calling the kettle black.

lol someone drank too much hormone filled milk?

 

[Suikoguy]

I have no problem with this Tarrif. Canada maintains a high tariff on imported dairy products so american businesses can't sell dairy there. This tarrif on lumber is just a shot across the bow that is leveling the playing field. In the end these tarrifs will go away when the dairy tarrifs go away.

[Citation Needed]

 

[Prodigal Son]

As an american now living in canada, fuck

 

[SoundofSilence]

So how long until Trump signs an executive order for a border wall with Canada? It's badly needed.

 

[Grizzle_Dat]

[Citation Needed]

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/25/new-...to-the-world-commerces-wilbur-ross-warns.html

Canada's dairy sector is protected by high tariffs on imported products and controls on domestic production as a means of supporting prices that farmers receive. It's frequently criticized by other dairy-producing countries.

U.S. dairy industry groups want Trump to urge Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to halt a pricing policy that's disrupted some U.S. dairy exports and prioritize dairy market access in NAFTA renegotiation talks.

 

[Pomerlaw]

So how long until Trump signs an executive order for a border wall with Canada? It's badly needed.

I have my self made wall, not going to the US until Orange Dude is gone.

 

[Suikoguy]

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/25/new-...to-the-world-commerces-wilbur-ross-warns.html

I'm confused since I just saw a segment on CBS Evening News saying there was no tariff.

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/trump-starts-trade-showdown-with-canada-over-dairy-industry/

Edit: It does not explicitly mention tariffs for dairy. But it does say it was tax free previously.
Is says Canada boosted Canadian Farmers making their milk cheaper.

 

[djkimothy]

If you watch the video she is well spoken and tame. Quotes are cherry picked for headlines.

The interviewer was definitely trying to fish for a headline grabbing statement from Freeland but Freeland knew the game she was playing and gave pretty measured responses. Our politics are boring but at least we conduct ourselves well for business.

I'm confused since I just saw a segment on CBS Evening News saying there was no tariff.

As someone who works at the CBSA, yes, we impose tariffs on all imported dairy. About 300%! The issue here is, the Americans who impose their own protectionist regime (subsidized farms) don't like the idea that we supply manage. I can go on about supply management but i'll limit discussion to this trade irritant. What the americans don't realize, that both systems are just different approaches to protect farmers from market volatility. Trump can ask for Canadian access, but then we would demand they stop subsidizing their dairy farmers. Can you guess what their reaction would be?

On a side note! To tell if ice cream or other dairy product like cheese uses Canadian milk, look for the blue cow logo. Also, for customs purposes, ice cream that uses imported milk can not be called ice cream since percentage wise, it has a lower amount of milk (due to our protectionist scheme). It would be called "frozen deserts." So ice cream that is labelled ice cream will have a higher percentage of milk which most likely means it was made in Canada. I typically buy Chapmans because of it.

In any event! The most likely outcome would be an increase in import quota that is similar to that of CETA. I forget the figures but it would be something like an additional 18000 tonnes or something. The government would likely have to offer another compensation package but then we would be able to maintain the supply management.

 

[m23]

I'm confused since I just saw a segment on CBS Evening News saying there was no tariff.

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/trump-starts-trade-showdown-with-canada-over-dairy-industry/

Edit: It does not explicitly mention tariffs for dairy. But it does say it was tax free previously.
Is says Canada boosted Canadian Farmers making their milk cheaper.

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/a-guide-to-understanding-the-dairy-dispute-between-the-us-andcanada/article34802291/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&service=mobile

Canada has long maintained a high tariff wall on most dairy products. The duty on milk is 270 per cent.

 

[Twilight Princess]

if this is happening, expect cdn to crash. i'm scared guys

 

[zer0blivion]

Canada responds to US lumber tariff by slapping 30% tax on white nationalism

OTTAWA — The Canadian government this week responded to US President Donald Trump’s decision to impose a 20% tariff on softwood lumber imports by implementing a 30% tax on America’s chief export, white nationalism.

“We’re simply levelling the playing field,” insisted Ministry of Foreign Trade spokesperson Janet Umberto. “Canadian supremacists have long been forced to spew intolerance, misinformation and divisive, scapegoating rhetoric through privately-funded the groups like Rebel Media and Sun News. Meanwhile, NAFTA allows American racists to spread the exact same brand of vitriolic racial hatred for pennies on the dollar through government-owned programs like the Senate, Congress, and White House.”

 

[m23]

if this is happening, expect cdn to crash. i'm scared guys

It's already happened. And the taxes are retroactive as well for the past 90 days.

 

[Suikoguy]

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/a-guide-to-understanding-the-dairy-dispute-between-the-us-andcanada/article34802291/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&service=mobile

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/25/new-...to-the-world-commerces-wilbur-ross-warns.html

Thanks, CBS News failed.

 

[darscot]

Canada responds to US lumber tariff by slapping 30% tax on white nationalism

This is so good, LOL

 

[SRG01]

Canada responds to US lumber tariff by slapping 30% tax on white nationalism

Y'know our reality is messed up when I actually had to check that it was the Beaverton...

 

[BrhysH]

People in this thread actually like McDonald's coffee? It tastes like ashtray.

When did you have their coffee last? They've started using the old beans Tim Hortons use to buy... and its on par if not better then most runs to Tim Hortons.

 

[Doran902]

When did you have their coffee last? They've started using the old beans Tim Hortons use to buy... and its on par if not better then most runs to Tim Hortons.

I think it is different in Canada than the states, when i was in boston recently i got some and it tasted completely different.

 

[Tovarisc]

Ottawa, Ontario
April 25, 2017

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau spoke today with United States President Donald J. Trump.
‎
The Prime Minister and the President reaffirmed the importance of the mutually-beneficial Canada-US trade relationship. On the issue of softwood lumber, the Prime Minister refuted the baseless allegations by the U.S. Department of Commerce and the decision to impose unfair duties. The Prime Minister stressed that the Government of Canada will vigorously defend the interests of the Canadian softwood lumber industry, as we have successfully done in all past lumber disputes with the U.S. The two leaders agreed on the importance of reaching a negotiated agreement, recognizing the integrated nature of the industry between Canada and the United States.

The Prime Minister and the President also discussed Canada-US trade in dairy products, trade which heavily favours the US: Canada imports over $550 million of dairy products from the US, but exports just over $110 million to the US. The Prime Minister reaffirmed that Canada upholds its international trade obligations, including the North American Free Trade Agreement, under which the US continues to have duty-free and quota-free access for milk protein substances, including diafiltered milk, and that Canada would continue to defend its interests.

The Prime Minister and the President agreed to continue their dialogue on these important bilateral issues.

Source: http://pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2017/04/25...u-speaks-united-states-president-donald-trump

That page is getting hammered? Opens suuuper slow.

Edit: That is Canadian readout from that call. Here is what White House released.

https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/857029846949662720/photo/1

 

[djkimothy]

Ottawa, Ontario
April 25, 2017

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau spoke today with United States President Donald J. Trump.
‎
The Prime Minister and the President reaffirmed the importance of the mutually-beneficial Canada-US trade relationship. On the issue of softwood lumber, the Prime Minister refuted the baseless allegations by the U.S. Department of Commerce and the decision to impose unfair duties. The Prime Minister stressed that the Government of Canada will vigorously defend the interests of the Canadian softwood lumber industry, as we have successfully done in all past lumber disputes with the U.S. The two leaders agreed on the importance of reaching a negotiated agreement, recognizing the integrated nature of the industry between Canada and the United States.

The Prime Minister and the President also discussed Canada-US trade in dairy products, trade which heavily favours the US: Canada imports over $550 million of dairy products from the US, but exports just over $110 million to the US. The Prime Minister reaffirmed that Canada upholds its international trade obligations, including the North American Free Trade Agreement, under which the US continues to have duty-free and quota-free access for milk protein substances, including diafiltered milk, and that Canada would continue to defend its interests.

The Prime Minister and the President agreed to continue their dialogue on these important bilateral issues.

Source: http://pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2017/04/25...u-speaks-united-states-president-donald-trump

That page is getting hammered? Opens suuuper slow.

Edit: That is Canadian readout from that call. Here is what White House released.

https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/857029846949662720/photo/1

PM's website is down. Do they have their servers running off a potato?

Either way, you can tell the US admin doesn't care. Such a shitty read out.

 

[Tovarisc]

Either way, you can tell the US admin doesn't care. Such a shitty read out.

All readouts from Trump administration have been super shitty. Even Chinese and Russians release more detailed ones about calls with Trump.

 

[Fenderputty]

Nothing asinine about that. That's your abridged update.

Characterizing the issue of states rights resulting in shitty states as "just move or change the constitution" is indeed asinine. The is so far reality that calling it asinine might be generous.

 

[CazTGG]

"It was a very amicable call" means "Trump didn't hang up this time".

 

[android]

So....Basically...it wont cost nor add American lumber jobs as jobs are already there under current prices. It will hurt USA home builders in the increased price of lumber and construction companies when construction possibly slows. So another helping hand to Trump's rich fuckwad friends? You Americans picked a real winner

http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/25/news/economy/canadian-lumber-tax/index.html

 

[Madness]

Lol are some of you Americans really saying you want to risk trade war because some Wisconsin dairy farmers are more impacted by Oversupply and overproduction than Canadian dairy tariffs? You want to look at how many things you guys have a giant tariff on from other countries. The US is one of the world's biggest bullies on trade. It is not Chinese corporations or chinese government that is the reason you have a deficit there. But Americans and American consumers and corporations. No outside government forced Bill Clinton to grant China entry into the WTO etc. NAFTA is what Americans wanted early on.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/dairy-farmers-wisconsin-trump-1.4081391

The Wisconsin dairy crisis is just as much an issue of oversupply and overproduction than any Canadian tariffs.

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

my reaction to it is that it's not that bad, actually... could have been higher and at least 20% was expected regardless of who or when did it. so i'm not too bothered by it yet (family is generationally in lumber with canfor)... Canfor stock even went up 8% today. last time US-Can had to negotiate softwood deal, US did the same thing. nothing unique about this to Trump per se... if anything it's low, which is why Canfor probably went up. in 2001 it was like 27% and it lasted 5 years until the new deal was done. 20% now until the new combined tariffs later this year or the final tariffs next year while they negotiate is not too bad, again probably why Canfor stock went up 8%

further, in the meantime, it's probably gonna be offset a bit by changes in the CAD and lumber. canadian spf i think was about 5-10% cheaper than us comp right now, so with the tariff it will be about 10-15% more expensive, but a few basis points of currency drop could help with that. bit (meanwhile effectively making all other Canadian exports cheaper too) and the either way if lumber goes down (as it has so far) it'll help keep prices down and demand (lumber is a bit too high right now anyhow, which impacts lumber demand but also when lumber gets a certain price it impacts regulation on raw log exports here in BC) and if it goes up it won't really hurt Canadian lumber specifically US lumber is going to get even more expensive so Canadian lumber will still have some advantage. it will probably drive up US comp prices more anyhow so for a few months as buyers buy cheaper US comp it'll go up in price US spf will go down and CAD lumber will probably end up the cheaper option again regardless (if only because of the currency advantage).

could be good too to put some pressure for the mills to diversify more into exporting to China... a few already focus on that. I know one of Canfor's supermills I think in Prince George already basically exclusively ships to Asia.

and again the 20% tax is basically the same as the 27% tax in 2001 it's just leverage used for the softwood deal, which could happen a lot faster this time. i think the reaction is a bit greater just because it's trump's first new tariff but based on history, had this been done during obama's last year it would just as easily had been 20% of not higher (it will probably be closer to 30% anyhow by next year once the combined and final review tariffs are done anyhow) assuming no deal is done by then.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Canada should signal an intention to call all of its forces back from the Baltic states. The US actually can't afford losing support on that end, and Trump can't afford seeing the situation there deteriorate.

Also, it was obvious that Trump's "negotiations" with Mexico, China and Japan were going to fail and he would turn his sights on Canada instead. Totally predictable, was certain to happen, and Trudeau and Co. probably expected as much. He'll eventually go after car makers.

As for the CAD, it's cheap and will probably end up in the mid to high .60s, but that will bring its own lot of problems. Household debt is at a record high, so a low loonie means higher inflation which means higher rates which means busted housing bubble.

 

[gutter_trash]

curious so hear what Mad Max Bernier has to say or Mister Wonderful.

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

Characterizing the issue of states rights resulting in shitty states as "just move or change the constitution" is indeed asinine. The is so far reality that calling it asinine might be generous.

Not as asinine as implying we should just ignore what's written in the constitution that this country was founded on.

 

[Acinixys]

Will there even be a nation on friendly terms with the US in 4 years?

Spoiler

Russia will be it

Probably some of Africa will be chilled

El Trumpo dont give a fuck about those guys, so they should be safe from his stupidity

 

[danm999]

It doesn't make sense for the Canada and the US to be two separate nations, hell it doesn't make sense for the US, Canada, UK, Australia, and New Zealand being separate nations. The less imaginary lines drawn on the map the better.

I am skeptical any of the countries you listed has a desire to join into a single nation with the United States.

Also the lines around Australia and New Zealand aren't imaginary they are called oceans.

Dream of empire elsewhere.

 

[killer rin]

Not as asinine as implying we should just ignore what's written in the constitution that this country was founded on.

Have you ever stopped to realize a Constitution can be wrong? A Countries Constitution is a law like any other, and like all laws it is going to be flawed in some capacity. The only thing that makes it unique is that everybody has agreed upon the method upon which it can be changed, a method that is much more than the requirements of any other law (for good reason).

Laws can be wrong and usually when they are wrong they are eventually fixed. Many countries in the past have done it and continue to do it. Ireland did it in 2015 when they amended their constitution to legalize same-sex marriage, a provision that was initially written as illegal in their constitution.

The point is, there is nothing magical about a country's constitution. Like with Irelands having banning Same-Sex marriage before amendment, constitutions can be wrong and the USA Constitution definitely has its fair share of things that need to be fixed.