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[Smiles and Cries]

sad RIP

she deserved better parents

 

[Popnbake]

May I suggest this documentary? http://www.mtv.com/shows/laverne-co...rne-cox-presents-the-t-word/1731865/playlist/

Don't get thrown off by the fact that it's a MTV production, it really is very well done. Surprised me too.

Not sure how true to reality it was but there's also a MTV True Life episode featuring a young man who thought of himself as transgendered and even went through surgery.

He later decided to live as a gay male because of how difficult being transgendered was.

It's really sad what some of them have to go through.

 

[Sai-kun]

I feel really uncomfortable calling Leelah (chosen name) "her" or "daughter". Could be ignorance but Leelah is a male, a son, as far as I'm concerned. That doesn't mean Leelah can't feel like a girl trapped in a man's body. That doesn't mean Leelah doesn't have the right to transition. That doesn't mean Leelah doesn't have the right to be respected by peers, or to be loved, or to pursue a happy, fulfilling life. That doesn't mean Leelah was not justified in committing suicide. The parents were huge pieces of shit and in general the societal stigma against transgendered and gay people is horrible. Hopefully I don't come off as intentionally offensive - ignorant, maybe, I'll admit that, but I just wanted to get that off my chest.

If I had a son and he looked like what the OP looked like, and he still had his male genitalia, and he has not started any sort of transitioning, then he's a "he" and he's my "son". I'd love him no matter what though, and support him through whatever he wanted, and call him by Leelah if he wished too. I like to think that when I have kids, if they ever come out as gay or transgendered or whatever, we'll have lived in a household in which we aren't flip-floppers. We won't be the house that hated gays and transgenders and then suddenly sees the light once their kid comes out as a part of this group. My household will always preach tolerance.

You're ignorant. Sorry.

 

[kiunchbb]

This should be child abuse. Rest in peace.

 

[demosthenes]

I feel for the girl, but that's a shitty way to kill yourself, the poor driver.

Yea, RIP, but what the fuck. You went to send a massage great, don't make someone else kill you like this.

 

[JumpJeff84]

Being a teenager is hard as hell. Can't even imagine how challenging it must be to be a transgendered teen.

Sad story all around.

 

[Mesoian]

So much about this story makes me angry.

I don't even want to talk about it. I'd just get irrational halfway through because I hate every single detail of this story, top to bottom.

 

[pinkurocket]

I am not one to preach social justice warrior shit in people's faces, but I do try to make people understand that everyone is different and that someone's gender identity isn't always determined by what's between their legs. I live a comfortable life, but as a gay male I am different from society's norms and I do feel the judgement that comes from it. I don't even try, but people identify me as gay easily (can't help being this fabulous, I guess) and the slew of stereotypes that come with it. It's tiring and the whole list of what you need to be and how you need to act to fit society's norms is simply bullshit. It's frustrating as well because most people are totally 'normal' according to these standards and don't 'understand' what it's like to be 'different' and how you can't just force yourself to 'fit in.'

Anyway, all said and done, this story is a tragedy. I don't think the parents will ever realize just how 'wrong' they were. If even the death of their daughter wasn't the wake-up call they needed, it just seems pointless. But I hope this story opens some people's eyes, I'm glad it managed to go viral.

 

[kirblar]

Not sure how true to reality it was but there's also a MTV True Life episode featuring a young man who thought of himself as transgendered and even went through surgery.

He later decided to live as a gay male because of how difficult being transgendered was.

It's really sad what some of them have to go through.

I don't believe he actually was transgendered, actually, (instead being simply a gay guy who enjoyed drag and gender fluidity) based on that episode and his descriptions of his reasons/thought process involved w/ the transition. Don't want to derail, so if you'd like to discuss feel free to PM me.

The episode definitely shows that this stuff is complicated and takes a lot of effort to work though, and that people need support while working through their issues.

 

[King_Moc]

That was horrible to read. Shows the damage that religion can do in the wrong hands.
RIP to her. A real shame she couldn't have held on for one more year, at least to see if things could have worked out without the parents around.

 

[UltraGunner]

It's fucked up how this country uses religion to treat others like shit simply for being the "Other"

 

[King_Moc]

I think from the mother's perspective, she'd probably say she did love her, but that she simply thought she was sinning. Love the sinner, hate the sin sort of interpretation.

She'd likely (incorrectly) compare it to a kid who gets in a fight at school and you have to punish them but you still love them and wish them all the best. She'd probably say her attempts to put her daughter in therapy was proof of that love.

I come to this conclusion because I've heard this sad argument before

Don't they tend to try to treat it as a sickness of sorts nowadays? I mean, you look at the stats you outlined in the OP, it's illogical to choose to be that way on purpose.

I was brought up Christian (in the UK) and all I ever heard was that we're all made in God's image and to try to treat others as you would want to be treated. I'm not sure how that message got so muddied for some people.

 

[Dawg]

I've been reading a few articles here and there and apparently her parents are going to bury her as their son and not as their daughter? And they refuse to put "Leelah" on the grave?! A friend of mine was following her on tumblr and she told me the mother was calling transgenders "tranny's" on social media en that she blamed the community for her death.

 

[Dai101]

I've been reading a few articles here and there and apparently her parents are going to bury her as their son and not as their daughter? And they refuse to put "Leelah" on the grave?! A friend of mine was following her on tumblr and she told me the mother was calling transgenders "tranny's" on social media en that she blamed the community for her death.

Of course. Never my fault since i'm on gods side!!!

What a disgusting intent of a human.

 

[Insane Metal]

Goddamn that was such a sad read. And forgive me for bringing this here, but this is another reason to dislike religion. His parents and 'therapists' reaction were the worst possible.

 

[Hale-XF11]

One of the worst things a parent can possibly do to their child is to dismiss their thoughts, words and actions as though they're not important enough to warrant attention. It's in those crucial moments when a child comes to the parent that the parent should give just as much respect to their child as they would want in return. Otherwise, good luck, because you may be setting up your kid for a lifetime of extremely low self-esteem.

 

[Not]

This is making me tear up. We have to fix this, for everyone growing up in the world run by our new generation.

 

[King_Moc]

Of course. Never my fault since i'm on gods side!!!

What a disgusting intent of a human.

When these "god wouldn't make a mistake" morons look at the world, i wonder what they think? Do they look at all the problems in Africa, for instance, and just think they must deserve it in some way? Any kind of logical thought with that mindset would lead to some utterly horrible beliefs.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

I've been reading a few articles here and there and apparently her parents are going to bury her as their son and not as their daughter? And they refuse to put "Leelah" on the grave?! A friend of mine was following her on tumblr and she told me the mother was calling transgenders "tranny's" on social media en that she blamed the community for her death.

Ugh I wish there was some way for them to lose custody posthumously or something so she could be given a proper burial as Leelah.

What a fucking scumsucking motherfucker of a human being her mom is.

 

[Amir0x]

Don't they tend to try to treat it as a sickness of sorts nowadays? I mean, you look at the stats you outlined in the OP, it's illogical to choose to be that way on purpose.

I was brought up Christian (in the UK) and all I ever heard was that we're all made in God's image and to try to treat others as you would want to be treated. I'm not sure how that message got so muddied for some people.

I mean it's difficult to go too deep here without having to analyze the Christian faith as a whole, but I think a lot of the issue is the same it's always been. When you endow certain books with the authority of the holy, then you begin to interpret the text in a huge variety of ways and give it absolute final say in a situation.

So while you were taught "treat others how you want to be treated" and whatnot, others will read the Bible front to back and read how God was ok with raping children and stoning homosexuals and beating slaves. It's a very complicated subject because of this.

 

[NEO0MJ]

I guess part of the problem is that this is not something the general public can easily empathize with? For most people with no knowledge on the subjct, the idea of being born in the wrong body seems crazy.

 

[Afrocious]

If her gravestone doesn't have Leelah on it, I would sneak into the graveyard sometime after the funeral and put a banner or sign over the tombstone with her name and a bunch of flowers.

I'd even protest the funeral honestly.

 

[King_Moc]

I mean it's difficult to go too deep here without having to analyze the Christian faith as a whole, but I think a lot of the issue is the same it's always been. When you endow certain books with the authority of the holy, then you begin to interpret the text in a huge variety of ways and give it absolute final say in a situation.

So while you were taught "treat others how you want to be treated" and whatnot, others will read the Bible front to back and read how God was ok with raping children and stoning homosexuals and beating slaves. It's a very complicated subject because of this.

Yeah, I guess...it just seems strange how people can be that full of hate for people who are just in an unfortunate situation, really. And to pick religion over your own child...I can't even begin to understand that.

I guess part of the problem is that this is not something the general public can easily empathize with? For most people with no knowledge on the subjct, the idea of being born in the wrong body seems crazy.

They don't need to empathize, and it's likely impossible anyway. They just need to see that enough people have reported the same thing and that, given the repercussions, they almost certainly aren't lying. Just let them get on with it.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

I guess part of the problem is that this is not something the general public can easily empathize with? For most people with no knowledge on the subjct, the idea of being born in the wrong body seems crazy.

Yes but we're taught to have empathy for people in bad situations that we haven't personally experienced. Are transgendered people just omitted from that?

Any decent human being could say "I don't personally relate to the problem, but they are suffering and deserve respect and comfort."

Her parents obviously were not decent human beings.

 

[GaimeGuy]

I feel really uncomfortable calling Leelah (chosen name) "her" or "daughter". Could be ignorance but Leelah is a male, a son, as far as I'm concerned. That doesn't mean Leelah can't feel like a girl trapped in a man's body. That doesn't mean Leelah doesn't have the right to transition. That doesn't mean Leelah doesn't have the right to be respected by peers, or to be loved, or to pursue a happy, fulfilling life. That doesn't mean Leelah was not justified in committing suicide. The parents were huge pieces of shit and in general the societal stigma against transgendered and gay people is horrible. Hopefully I don't come off as intentionally offensive - ignorant, maybe, I'll admit that, but I just wanted to get that off my chest.

If I had a son and he looked like what the OP looked like, and he still had his male genitalia, and he has not started any sort of transitioning, then he's a "he" and he's my "son". I'd love him no matter what though, and support him through whatever he wanted, and call him by Leelah if he wished too. I like to think that when I have kids, if they ever come out as gay or transgendered or whatever, we'll have lived in a household in which we aren't flip-floppers. We won't be the house that hated gays and transgenders and then suddenly sees the light once their kid comes out as a part of this group. My household will always preach tolerance.

She couldn't transition because her parents had the exact same thoughts. "But you're not my daughter! You're my son! And you'll always be my son! It's a phase, you'll grow out of it, God made you a boy for a reason."

So yeah, she may not have transitioned, but not because she didn't want to, but because her parents wouldn't let her

 

[tirminyl]

RIP. That was very sad to read.

 

[UltraGunner]

I've been reading a few articles here and there and apparently her parents are going to bury her as their son and not as their daughter? And they refuse to put "Leelah" on the grave?! A friend of mine was following her on tumblr and she told me the mother was calling transgenders "tranny's" on social media en that she blamed the community for her death.

What a bunch of pieces of shit her parents are. I'm sure she'll also go on the news and cry that her tombstone was "vandalized" with Leelah's actual name if someone went and actually corrected it.

 

[King_Moc]

Yes but we're taught to have empathy for people in bad situations that we haven't personally experienced. Are transgendered people just omitted from that?

Any decent human being could say "I don't personally relate to the problem, but they are suffering and deserve respect and comfort."

Her parents obviously were not decent human beings.

Well, yeah, but that's sympathy. And I agree that people should be sympathetic towards transgendered people in these situations. I'm not convinced empathy is really possible though.

 

[Sevarus]

Fucking tragic all around. RIP. I hope one day her mother can come to her senses. I want to be optimistic, I really do.

For those who are castigating Leelah for her method of suicide... having been that far down the hole, I can say pretty confidently that, when you are in such a state of despair, you aren't thinking of anyone but yourself. If you're thinking of other people, you are just focusing on what a burden you must be to them, or how everyone hates you. Secondly--and this will be an uncomfortable thought for many--she was looking for an effective way to end her life. If you do not have access to a gun, your options leave a lot of room for error. Walking in front of a huge, fast-moving vehicle might "work" better.

 

[Simply Sarah]

I will also say that at least one extremely bittersweet but still somewhat encouraging thing I've seen in all of this is that news organizations seem to be respecting Leelah's identity with proper pronouns and names. This was something that I doubt would have ever happened even just a couple years ago. It's not much in a sea of sorrow, but I can take a very tiny bit of hope from the tragic irony of Leelah being finally widely accepted as herself in death as she needed to be in life.

 

[Box of Bunnies]

I've been reading a few articles here and there and apparently her parents are going to bury her as their son and not as their daughter? And they refuse to put "Leelah" on the grave?!

Unfortunate, but unsurprising.

There was a story a couple of months ago about a woman who had been living as herself for some number of years but who's family presented them as a man at their funeral and referred to her only as their son in their obituary.

 

[Barrage]

I'm glad I read this article. Leelah's comment about being afraid she would become too "old"to transistion helps to illuminate,for me, part of why the transgender suicide rate is so high.It's a stressful situation on it's own, then add what is essentially an expiration date for that person's personal happiness.Terrifying.


That being said,the use of the truck does bother me. I know someone who is dealing with the trauma of being the driver in a similar situation.Now you're harming someone else's life,and someone else's mental stability. Saying that she had her own pain doesn't excuse it, otherwise almost all harmful actions could be excused (as they are typically caused as a result of someone's own distress).

 

[Mumei]

I feel really uncomfortable calling Leelah (chosen name) "her" or "daughter". Could be ignorance but Leelah is a male, a son, as far as I'm concerned. That doesn't mean Leelah can't feel like a girl trapped in a man's body. That doesn't mean Leelah doesn't have the right to transition. That doesn't mean Leelah doesn't have the right to be respected by peers, or to be loved, or to pursue a happy, fulfilling life. That doesn't mean Leelah was not justified in committing suicide. The parents were huge pieces of shit and in general the societal stigma against transgendered and gay people is horrible. Hopefully I don't come off as intentionally offensive - ignorant, maybe, I'll admit that, but I just wanted to get that off my chest.

If I had a son and he looked like what the OP looked like, and he still had his male genitalia, and he has not started any sort of transitioning, then he's a "he" and he's my "son". I'd love him no matter what though, and support him through whatever he wanted, and call him by Leelah if he wished too. I like to think that when I have kids, if they ever come out as gay or transgendered or whatever, we'll have lived in a household in which we aren't flip-floppers. We won't be the house that hated gays and transgenders and then suddenly sees the light once their kid comes out as a part of this group. My household will always preach tolerance.

It is ignorant, and it leads you in a somewhat unempathetic position. "Tolerance" shouldn't be the mark you aspire to; we tolerate things that we dislike that we nonetheless have to endure. And I think it leads you to the idea that continuing to call a transgender child "he", "him," and "my son," after she has said that she identifies as a girl to be an acceptable compromise, rather than a deeply hurtful rejection.

Though I'm not sure how you square your insistence upon still considering your hypothetical child "a son" with your stated willingness to call her by her new selected name, or your (apparent) willingness to support her through her transition.

 

[NEO0MJ]

It's funny how accepting a country like Iran is compared to the USA about TG people, though they unfortunately force LGB people to change sex in order to "cure" them.

They don't need to empathize, and it's likely impossible anyway. They just need to see that enough people have reported the same thing and that, given the repercussions, they almost certainly aren't lying. Just let them get on with it.

Unfortunately we're pretty good at ignoring facts.

Yes but we're taught to have empathy for people in bad situations that we haven't personally experienced. Are transgendered people just omitted from that?

Any decent human being could say "I don't personally relate to the problem, but they are suffering and deserve respect and comfort."

Her parents obviously were not decent human beings.

Of course, but it's easier to feel bad for others when you can put yourself in their shoes.
And yeah, her parents messed up badly.

 

[Platy]

It is ignorant, and it leads you in a somewhat unempathetic position. "Tolerance" shouldn't be the mark you aspire to; we tolerate things that we dislike that we nonetheless have to endure. And I think it leads you to the idea that continuing to call a transgender child "he", "him," and "my son," after she has said that she identifies as a girl to be an acceptable compromise, rather than a deeply hurtful rejection.

Though I'm not sure how you square your insistence upon still considering your hypothetical child "a son" with your stated willingness to call her by her new selected name, or your (apparent) willingness to support her through her transition.

My parents were kinda like this .....and they keep doing this apparently because the burocracy to change the name is ridiculous and the price of the surgery really big.

So because the burocracy sux and I am poor they keep calling the pronouns and birth name most times than not.

I love them, but it feels like water drop torture and I am kinda avoiding contact because of it =(

 

[Amalthea]

What feels really odd is if your parents call you by your new name but with old pronouns.

 

[royalan]

Calling someone who identifies as female by male pronouns despite knowing what their wishes are is not acceptance. It's not even tolerance. It is an open act of aggression.

 

[Soulscribe]

This breaks my heart on so many levels. I can't even imagine the heaviness and pain she felt day to day.

LGBTQ kids and teens are so incredibly vulnerable and the parents are usually the catalyst.

Love and support your fucking kids.

 

[depths20XX]

I can't imagine how your religion can have such a strong influence over you that it causes you to treat your own child that way. Eventually any rational or sane person would reach a point of, "Yeah, this just isn't right."

 

[Beth Cyra]

Calling someone who identifies as female by male pronouns despite knowing what their wishes are is not acceptance. It's not even tolerance. It is an open act of aggression.

It can certainly be like this.

The desire to have our proper pronouns is something really important to alot of us, and when someone goes activily against it, it can hurt pretty bad.

I know several folk who have this and they have cut off contact, not because they hate the person who does it, but because it really hurts them and leaves them feeling sick because it's like having someone push the problem right into their face.

I tried to let people address how they wanted for the first few months, but after a while I just had to clamp down and ask that I only be called by Her/female because being called Male was like a a pulsing headache.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

RIP. And holy fuck is that mother is infuriating. Sadly, she's probably so brainwashed and in denial that she'll never even realize she was the primary cause of her daughter's suicide.

I've been reading a few articles here and there and apparently her parents are going to bury her as their son and not as their daughter? And they refuse to put "Leelah" on the grave?! A friend of mine was following her on tumblr and she told me the mother was calling transgenders "tranny's" on social media en that she blamed the community for her death.

Sickening. Poor Leelah can't even get a proper funeral. At least news outlets have been respectful of her identity, as Simply Sarah said.

 

[MrS]

Very, very sad. Rest in peace, Leelah.

 

[Kai Dracon]

I can't imagine how your religion can have such a strong influence over you that it causes you to treat your own child that way. Eventually any rational or sane person would reach a point of, "Yeah, this just isn't right."

If someone is a "god doesn't make mistakes" type that has come to depend on religion for their fundamental sense of security, the fear of things that upset one's world view can pretty much take over rational thought. "God doesn't make mistakes" is a code phrase for "everything must stay I think it should be, so that I know who and what I am".

The mother in this case reminds me of a homophobic religious woman who was the mother of a gay acquaintance in Texas. One time, when she was frothing at the mouth over "sexually confused deviants corrupting our children" Freud slipped out. Without thinking she said "God made ME a woman, I know what I am!"

 

[Simply Sarah]

It can certainly be like this.

The desire to have our proper pronouns is something really important to alot of us, and when someone goes activily against it, it can hurt pretty bad.

I know several folk who have this and they have cut off contact, not because they hate the person who does it, but because it really hurts them and leaves them feeling sick because it's like having someone push the problem right into their face.

I tried to let people address how they wanted for the first few months, but after a while I just had to clamp down and ask that I only be called by Her/female because being called Male was like a a pulsing headache.

Yeah. I gave some leeway to people, especially family that had known me my whole life and don't see me too often now, but it's a grace period to let them adjust their learned responses and not some long-term allowance. After that you get it right or you get the hell away from me until you care about me enough to do so.

 

[JackTretton]

What year is this? What country?

I wish there was a magic light switch someone, oh we'll say President Obama, a light switch that President Obama could press to make all the fags tolerant of others so we can get on with making our collective lives better through innovation and new scientific enterprise.

These parents are the worst.

“If you prick us, do we not bleed? if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that” - Bill S.

 

[tbm24]

I'm glad I read this article. Leelah's comment about being afraid she would become too "old"to transistion helps to illuminate,for me, part of why the transgender suicide rate is so high.It's a stressful situation on it's own, then add what is essentially an expiration date for that person's personal happiness.Terrifying.


That being said,the use of the truck does bother me. I know someone who is dealing with the trauma of being the driver in a similar situation.Now you're harming someone else's life,and someone else's mental stability. Saying that she had her own pain doesn't excuse it, otherwise almost all harmful actions could be excused (as they are typically caused as a result of someone's own distress).

I think it's important to realize that her mental state at the time is not being used as an excuse for choosing to do what she did through meana of jumping infront of a truck. I don't see why it's brought up. Clearly it's not an ideal way of going about something so terrible, but again, it's likely not something that she considered. So unless by bringing it up you're faulting he, idk why it's worth mentioning.

 

[Beth Cyra]

I've been reading a few articles here and there and apparently her parents are going to bury her as their son and not as their daughter? And they refuse to put "Leelah" on the grave?! A friend of mine was following her on tumblr and she told me the mother was calling transgenders "tranny's" on social media en that she blamed the community for her death.

My goddess, I can't even hardly breath after reading this.

Her daughter is gone and she is doubling down and now throwing out hate that could lead to the misery of other people and just won't stop.

It's just so gross.

 

[Supermanisdead]

What year is this? What country?

I wish there was a magic light switch someone, oh we'll say President Obama, a light switch that President Obama could press to make all the fags tolerant of others so we can get on with making our collective lives better through innovation and new scientific enterprise.

These parents are the worst.

“If you prick us, do we not bleed? if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that” - Bill S.

lmao what did i just read

 

[Ahasverus]

What year is this? What country?

I wish there was a magic light switch someone, oh we'll say President Obama, a light switch that President Obama could press to make all the fags tolerant of others so we can get on with making our collective lives better through innovation and new scientific enterprise.

These parents are the worst.

“If you prick us, do we not bleed? if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that” - Bill S.

I don't know either thank you for your support or being offended by being called f*g lol. Well in some sense, if everyone was a f*g in the sense that we all were empathic with each other this wouldn't happen I think.

 

[Fargo_Dog]

sad RIP

she deserved better parents

She deserved a better society.