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The UK votes to leave the European Union
- Thread starter Spring Drive
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SoRuffShoNuff
Member
He understands the issue, he just knows better than to start campaigning for another referendum in the UK or even worse start spreading bad news about the whole ordeal. That doesn't play well here and it surely doesn't play well with the large percentage of people and government officials in the UK who want to leave. The US needs to have a relationship with the UK even when it's government chooses directions we don't necessarily agree with.
because he's part kenyan!
AHA-Lambda
Member
Corbyn statement seems to say he's not resigning
ultratruman
Banned
Not sound like a Putin propagandist by saying 'this is the end of EU's ever increasing integration' would be a start. I get that Obama wants to preserve calm, but that doesn't mean acting like none of this matters.
Let's not forget much of the angst in the UK and across EU has arguably been caused directly by Obama's 'hands-off' foreign policy. His disinterest in Russian aggression towards Eastern Europe and letting Assad continue to gas and bomb his country causing the mass immigration of 2 million refugees to Europe. Sometimes the 'stupidest shit' you can do is doing nothing at all.
My Portuguese friend and I was joking about how we have the oldest ALLIANCE in the world.
Then this news broke pft so much for the alliance. What horrible human beings.
Bitch Pudding
Member
And conversely, it has been explicitly stated that access to the single market will not happen without free movement.
Looking at some of the anti-intellectualism I've seen going around, I don't think it will be
Yeah, with the bad scapegoat called "EU" not being available anymore I fear Nationalists might turn over to making foreigners still living in the country responsible for those inconvenient actions, as it is absolutely out of the question that he likes of Johnson or Farage take ANY responsibility (which they basically already proclaimed).
Obama and the US government I'm sure are working behind scenes to calm the EU down and push them to accept a Norway style deal for the UK.
The EU is big, but the US is the big dog, and it won't allow this shit show to continue and give Russia ideas.
I'd forgotten about that. If he gets elected, then I guess Boris could explain that to Obama's face.
jufonuk
not tag worthy
And conversely, it has been explicitly stated that access to the single market will not happen without free movement.
Looking at some of the anti-intellectualism I've seen going around, I don't think it will be
EU will do the Norway deal bit Norway plus as we want . Just Norway shut the fuck up and leave deal. Five year get out length
Forcing UK to sort it's shit out. (Fund .EU, Stop eu based businesses in uk tanking , more job loses but they force uk behind scenes to say we saw the light )We will only be associates now . Scotland gets better trade deals London too. As soon completed .
Eu do two tier trade system to keep rest together
Uk dies so much damage to itself the example writes itself,
Yeah, I think they really are on a different level. For example Japan has its problems with xenophobia, but you wouldn't see this kind of behaviour in response to foreigners.
That's it, if anyone asks me from now I'm European. I'm not English anymore, I don't want to be related in any way to them.
Another one. Another one of these slimebags who think it's about them, and not about the people they swore to serve. There's being a man of principle and then there's just being blind to the world around you.
Makes me sick how much of the news over the past two days has been about sodding Corbyn and not nearly enough about the actual impacts of the referendum vote (i.e. economy, racism). Shameful.
AHA-Lambda
Member
Alistair Campbell killing Corbyn on BBC right now
EdibleExplosives
Member
Bet this cunt loves Nando's though.
ultratruman
Banned
UK is not going to have access to the single market without accepting free movement of labour. Brussels has already stated this, and I'm pretty sure Gove admitted it during the campaign. The Norwegian associate model is not an option for the UK.
I agree, a Norway style deal will happen, and free movement will continue with a caveat that EU citizens will not be able to claim benefits until after 6 months or working here or something like that which will appease the Leavers.
I have many friends in UK, I fear for them and their future... One of them just had a baby...
SoRuffShoNuff
Member
Im not sure how versed you are in American politics but the party who puts people like Obama in office already thinks we are too involved in foreign affairs and is pretty damn tired of being the world's police. The fact that Clinton is seen as a hawk is a pretty big negative against her here with Democrats.
So you may see it as a negative that Obama isn't more of a hawk but here that's one thing people actually prefer about him over Clinton. If you want more foreign intervention the GOP would suit that need nicely but chances are you wouldn't like the other shit they bring with them.
I don't think Obama meant the UK will get the Norway deal. For the US losing the UK as an EU member is a huge deal. Both nations often share the same point of view, for the US this means losing its direct influence over the EU from within the EU. To make it all appear less frightening he used Norway as an example. They aren't an EU member either but that doesn't mean they're causing problems for the US all the time.
That's the irony here, from now on the UK will have two choices. Either follow the US or follow the EU. Lead seems rather impossible.
That's the irony here, from now on the UK will have two choices. Either follow the US or follow the EU. Lead seems rather impossible.
People have to understand that free movement of labour is an essential part of a single market. It's not some unrelated condition that the EU requires of people in exchange for giving them access to the single market, it is a critical part of the single market actually being a single market.
Obama was never really interested in Europe, this only changed because of Russia's actions, Syria, Lybia and stuff like TTIP. I always thought it's kind of a blessing, forcing Europe to deal with its own problems.
On the other hand he's really not saying much except "keep calm"
I expect the City of London to wilt gradually as its place of importance diminishes in comparison to Frankfurt and Paris.
Heckler456
Banned
Norway is part of the Schengen area, which I thought entailed all 4 free movements including persons and labor. So, how would the Norway model not work for the UK apart from the notion that it would theoretically be rejected by 52% of people who voted on a particular referendum? (something that won't matter if the Norway model is the only thing that makes economic sense for the moment)
ultratruman
Banned
I don't care about what public opinion prefers; given a referendum in 1939 I'm sure the UK would've voted again for NOT going to war with Nazi Germany. The job of the president isn't to be liked, it's to do the right thing, and Obama has absolutely failed at doing that.
ebullientprism
Member
Roland_Gunner
Member
In absolute numbers sure, but the lack of cohesion and number of very weak members keeps the EU from having impact proportionate to its GDP.
Raven117
Gold Member
Hey man, for once, this is not America's fault We didn't call a vote, our citizens didn't vote to Leave a strong trading block.
While yes, the West (that includes the U.S.) has a vested interest in a strong and safe Europe for not only our own interests, but for the world at large, we cannot be held responsible for the U.K. shooting itself in the foot.
I watched the video, and it was a calm and measured response. Something needed at the moment. Yes, he mentioned Norway . . . but as an example of countries existing outside the EU and not being completely effed. Not that the U.K. should wholesale adopt their "deal."
We will send you our Trump voters! Looks like they have lots to talk about over a pint!
joking around
Damn, I live in south London. I can't believe this kind of shit is happening here. Terrible.
Nonsense. Obama is staying reasonable and rational as too many in Europe fall over themselves to overreact in the most hyperbolic way possible.
EU doesn't have a military, and they can't survive without America backing them up, so they will listen intently to what the US will say about all of this.
AHA-Lambda
Member
Farage on BBC
Talking shite.
Talking shite.
ultratruman
Banned
Associate membership won't happen. This entire referendum has been about 1 singular issue: immigration. Believing that the Brexit government will opt to abandon our influence within the EU government but retain freedom of movement (like Norway) is believing in a fantasy. Obama is seemingly ignorant of this.
Roland_Gunner
Member
Obama gently pushed for Remain before the vote and has Kerry at the EU now managing the fall out. Anything beyond that is just going to whip up British nationalism and make everything worse. What do you want him to do, threaten sanctions against the UK or something?
Frankfurter
Member
We will take that deal and shut the fuck up.
Palette Swap
Member
Exactly.
This is the same fundamental misunderstanding of the situation as when people talk about punishment from the EU, or think "We respect the vote" means more than "you did this to yourselves, congrats".
All these foreign countries told the UK before the vote how much of a fuck up this would be, which was met with "nyurk nyurk, you're not the boss of me, we're sovereign" by enough voters. A foreign power is certainly not going to save the country from a popular nationalist backlash.
Right now, everyone else in the world are looking out for the best interests of the people they represent :
- Everyone in the west needs markets to be as stable as possible, and to not burn bridges because at some point in the future, trade agreements will need to be made.
- the EU specifically needs to remind the UK that the process can't start until article 50 is triggered by the UK. This is very important as these were the terms agreed on beforehand and as this is done because UK voters have decided so, the EU should play absolutely no part in triggering the exit. Anything else could cast doubt on responsibilities and they need to be unambiguous this is UK's sovereign will. They want it to be triggered quickly not to punish the UK, but to not make this limbo of UK's making last more than it should. This is also in UK's interest as an unstable country is not desirable for business.
- Scotland didn't agree to leave and they're exhausting every possible solution.
Right now, the only ones not scrambling to protect their people's interests are the UK (minus Scotland and Ireland) as they're too busy fighting each other, posturing, or trying to fuck Scotland. So yeah, taking it out on Obama is utterly misguided.
It is true, just forgetting the rest ... "for racists."
ultratruman
Banned
Like I said, simply holding back from proclaiming the end of EU integration and acting as though nothing of value is being lost would be nice. Obama a complete lame duck on the problems facing Europe, since the beginning of his presidency.
SoRuffShoNuff
Member
You have to get elected to become president. If a party keeps pushing forward a presidential candidate that goes against what the party wants that's a party that won't last long.
And who gets to decide what is right? For us what is right is reducing the size of our military, quit busting our national budget on being the police, and spending that money on shit we need like Healthcare and education. So if you ask me what's right, I'd say the health and education of US citizens comes before European interests.
This is a problem created solely by the UK, fix your own problems.
So while I did say it was a dead cat bounce to start with (and it still could be), I do believe the markets have slightly rallied as some senior Tories appear to favour entering the EEA as leaving the EU and if that's the most likely option. then the markets would be happier with that than a total exit.
However, it still would feel like all this shit has been for absolutley nothing if that happens, for us to pay more, have more of a say and keep freedom of movement. Feels like a comprimise where no-one is happy.
Ignoring the referendum would be the best thing for the markets, obviously. The opposite end of the spectrum of just leaving would make it crash harder.
Well, even if he shat all over Britain for their stupid decision and went all doom and gloom about the European project, what would have been the results?
I don't see any. He isn't going to change anything with speeches and interviews. All he is going to do is if he goes all doom and gloom is piss half of Britain off and perhaps make the markets worse. That isn't in the benefit of America or Britain.
And hell, he told Britain that there will be fallout before the vote. What else do you expect him to do? How is he supposed to help fix this? The US President does not have some singular credibility. Other people, other experts, other respected people who are not the leaders of a foreign government can give the hard truth. Diplomacy has never been about that because telling a nation that they are a bunch of doomed fucking idiots is a good way to ruin a relationship
I think they'll jump on it if it's their only way to keep the financial passports. UK's position in negotiation is weak because they absolutely need these passports or won't survive.
Don Draper's Hat
Member
Foreigners "outside of the UK"? Huh? They're all over here, mate. Taking our jobs. Raping our women. Kicking our dogs. Shitting in letter boxes.
Scum of the earth!
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