AceBandage
Banned
We don't know yet, but there will hopefully be some kind of work around like with the 3DS.
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We don't know yet, but there will hopefully be some kind of work around like with the 3DS.
I don't know, i find it rather immature to "publicly call out" other people who got inside info, in regard to a certain behavior that yourself aren't so shy to use heavily even after your self-righteous justification here. Hit & run 5 words posts, like "what was shown in GDC was impressive" followed by several weeks of not posting aren't rude at all isn't it ?
They are worse imo than real messages with an actual body of text made of 90% of facts explained and put in context and 10% of teasing, the teasing being here because this bit deserves its own thread + hype-building. And believe me, a lot of people (well, nearly all) in this industry would prefer their game, their productions, being teased by gaming magazines (well, it's the trends since there are dedicated medias about this subject actually) rather than treated by hit & run 5 words messages.And i try to stick to the topic to answer the hypothetic following questions, i'm not disappearing like some others.
All in all, the different posting styles have both their Pros and Cons, but engaging in a quote & pride war tending toward jealousy (your sudden posts about me screamed "hey my way to release my info is betta than your ! don't read its latest post guys !") or others resentments is bad and immature.
+ Ace & other reactions
Exactly
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For the few others expressing their annoyance, it's like the hints are the main bulk of my messages. It's a so unfair generalization that it reeks bad reading comprehension or "ignorance of the plain reality by choice to be able to express my virtual anger against this guy that try to steal the light for himself and i don't like it". Take my yesterday message about the mass produced dev kits. There are like 50 lines of explained and detailed infos, their context, the assumptions we can make about them, and 2 final lines more mysterious, but no, you retain only these, and forgot the crucial and never-heard before news (mass produced dev kits so final, release date to third-parties, the delay in their shipping, etc.). You can take nearly all my real posts (not the ones announcing that in a few days, i'll write something about a particular subject, to warn people) and see the same thing, and even better without in a lot of them the teasing bit (my posts in thread 2, 3 or 4 were devoid of the final tease that i added yesterday).
For the ones that ridiculously keep asking what i said since 2 months and half, well, just do a search by username on thread 2, 3 & 4 and you'll be surprised, but the fact that they sum up these posts by "amount of memory + v5 dev kits", and when you compare this to the reality of my contributions, it's rather telling about these guys unfairness, weird bitterness and i would say iniquitous attitude. And literally asking people, like one posted (always the same), to backlash someone and crave for this perspective is SO weird and bannable i guess ?
thanks and to the others "defending" me (i find it ridiculous that we have to go to such extent. And yes EloquentM, it's disappointing and surprising for some regulars. This is why i said some seems weirdly obsessed by me & my posting style)
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Now, i thought i justified myself enough to the occasional vocal people, a pity that everytime, just one person expresses its concerns behind my back then some others jump to the same ship, polluting the thread with annoying and uninteresting messages. You said (for the 100th time) your problems, i answered, end of the story, it would be cool to avoid the unnecessary and juvenile quoting war.
TerryWogan
Member
What's the workaround? Do you mean DSi >> 3DS?
SSJ3 Goku after a moderate beatdown and no magic beans
I don't think it's as complicated as you think it is. It really does come down to feature set in the end. The iPhone 4 is in the same league as the Wii in terms of horsepower, yet Wii doesn't run UE3. Do you really think think that Epic wouldn't have put UE3 on Wii if it had programmable shaders?
There's not much more to it. The rest comes down to business decisions, so if Wii U sells well, it's in the clear.
It is likely only the Wii store is the anomaly. The thing is poorly designed, from the things I have heard and read, and completely backwards.
With the DS / 3DS and most likely the Wii U, things will be different.
Im not sure how a transfer will work - maybe a channel on the Wii that "connects" to the Wii U and sends some kind of authorisation to copy stuff over, I dont really know. But Nintendo kind of have to honour people's Wii VC purchases, especially considering they worked hard with the DSi -> 3DS transfer.
Neoriceisgood
Member
Someone change the current thread title to this.
This a million times. I've actually been coming to this thread less and less since E3 is so close and everyone is still doom and gloom.
Here is a fact that I'll bring up one more time... Wii wasn't a modern console when it was released, it wasn't able to understand multiplatform game codes, so games had to be built from the ground up for the machine. Wii U won't have this problem, so the specs don't really matter, it's obviously going to be the most advance console when it releases this year, and nothing that the PS4 or Xbox3 could do from a developer's perspective, couldn't be done on the Wii U with only the scope changing.
I know, right?
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I think I understand hardware pretty well, BurntPork. It's going to be interesting to see how the Wii U shapes up in a potentially compute shader heavy engine environment.
And I don't know why you roped in UE into the argument, given I said nothing about it.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Still stand by this lol! people are just tearing people apart..we really need a leak..
It would seem so, between the IdeaMan stuff and the UE4 fretting.
(very glad that I slept through all of that. hmm.)
I'm taking it all in stride; we'll know in twenty-something days. Might as well enjoy the pre-circus entertainment..
It was the easiest example I could think of.
Though, I'm an idiot. I forgot that Wii U probably won't have compute shaders. Yeah, that could end up killing it. I really wish that Wii U having something similar to an underclocked 7750 were possible...
AceBandage
Banned
Throwaway123456789
Member
Yeah, it's amazing the twists and turns the thread takes. It feels like what Ace said, everything is going fine, and then bam, people go back to almost pre-E3 last year level speculation, we have learned some stuff during these threads since. If we go by what we've heard, the Wii U is likely to be better by a noticeable margin over current-gen, but it won't be as powerful as Sony/Microsoft's next-gen offerings, but it will likely be just close enough to handle ports. That could prove to be false, but we are getting close to seeing with our own eyes what's going on, so their doesn't seem to be much point in arguing/debating now.
I'm just kind of surprised with less then a month to go, that power is still the most talked about thing. I assumed at this point most people would be focused on what games may, or may not be seen at E3, and how they will be affected by the sub-screen.
Why is Alberto "too reasonable" anyways? I bet if he wasn't, he would spill the beans about everything.
I'm usually not doing this, but sometimes a monkey has to take one for the team, right? We need to get reasonable side out of his heart..
Come on, strong man! If can give me what you want and I give you what you want, cutie~!
AceBandage
Banned
Oh?
Like:
"So as of an hour ago, I'm really hyped for the Wii U's launch line up!"
or
"A certain publisher is showing off a game soon to journalists."
or
"Saw lots of cool stuff at GDC for the Wii U"
Everyone with insider knowledge likes to tease. IdeaMan simply does it in his own way. And why people get so upset about it is mind boggling.
He's not saying anything outrageous.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Won't it be the same for everything that is not using the current top-of-the-crop GPGPU architecture? I mean, unless ps4 and durango end up using the exact same GPU architecture, one of them will be better at GPGPU than the other. U-GPU will likely be the weakest, but it will do compute shaders, so we're back to square one, AKA 'powah'.
Speaking of which, BTW, I hear a big issue with the current GPGPU landscape is that one compute setup written for GPU X may not run optimally on GPU Y. Clearly, this problem does not stand on consoles. Bottomnline being, it's not some 3DMark situation we're facing here with this next console gen.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
When E3 hits we'll all be snuggling on a twin mattress..before I thought we wont reach thread 6..now it looks like well be there a bit too soon.
Compute shaders might not matter much, Nvidia (which UE3.9 was shown off on) has pretty much left compute shaders with the 680GTX, it's actually on par with 4870's computing power. So I don't think an engine designed for computing will work well, AI and physic extras I can certainly see, and it is where I think consoles can change the most, but unless PS4 really does come with a second GPU, I just don't see it happening, as devs will just push more graphics rather than those cooler add ons.
The problem is 'his own way' is to do it again, and again, and again, and AGAIN, and to dismiss anyone who complains about the teasing or its effect on the thread. That the payoff is usually minute and/or very vague adds insult to injury.
shadyspace
Banned
I'm kinda hyped out, guys.
AceBandage
Banned
What insult? What injury?
He says, well before hand, that the payoff won't be big, but each time, it's very interesting discussion.
Which, if I'm not mistaken, is kind of the point of this thread...
I'm guessing that's where a lot of the recent angst is coming from. I usually get more into it the month before E3, but most do seem to get a little sick of the hype by then, I'm sure you'll be hyped once we get down to the last week.
Just ignore his posts, damn guys :lol
Injury? Insults? He is like one of the most polite users around and does things his way. And if you find him annoying, then ignore him and those posts after his post. He keeps this thread interesting with his small tidbits and doesn't act like as if he pushes his ego with it.
And I would even go so far that he will still be a good man after Wii U release.
Injury? Insults? He is like one of the most polite users around and does things his way. And if you find him annoying, then ignore him and those posts after his post. He keeps this thread interesting with his small tidbits and doesn't act like as if he pushes his ego with it.
And I would even go so far that he will still be a good man after Wii U release.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
It might be able to handle compute shaders. I just don't know if it will, or to what extent.
Like, even if it does, what if there's a shift next gen to compute shader heavy engines? What if UE4 takes massive advantage of GPGPU processing, and the Wii U's more traditional architectural slips up in this area? Meanwhile the next Xbox and PlayStation take such things into account, and perform pretty with with engines built from the ground up to dominate with compute shaders.
I don't think well get another Wii situation, which was literally a worse case scenario of a system that could do nothing that current gen engines really needed. I just don't know enough about either platform to write problems off.
Like, Battlefield 3 is a DX11 exclusive game on PC, but runs 'fine' on the 360 and PS3. That's cool. But you're also halving the player count for online rounds, reshaping the way many multiplayer games are played. Sure the Wii U will get ports, but where will the line be drawn? What if we see a surge of games featuring heavy procedural destruction on a large scale? The Wii U might be able to handle the shaders, the textures, and the poly count (appropriately downscaled), but can it handle everything else? Can it faithfully run the game as a whole, built on engines designed to simulate and render these environments?
And this is the unknown that we're all stuck with, and why I'm still wary about drawing up current gen multipliers and situational examples. Even knowing what the Wii U's hardware is, it would be difficult to see how it will handle next generation ports until we know just how those games will actually work. None of us know how UE4 works. Or the next gen iteration of Frostbite. Or CryEngine 3's full advancements. Or what kind of games we'll see that do new things. Until then, we're all guessing.
The 'insult' is the way he continually refers to teasing a thread full of desperate fans as 'fun'.
The 'injury' is that after waiting patiently for the teased information, his post is vague and unspecific.
Metaphorical, of course. Don't take the idiom too seriously.
And IdeaMan doesn't always warn of a less than major payoff in his teases.
Yeah, that is why I brought up the 680GTX, fastest GPU out right now, is very slow with computing, the 580GTX stomps it, so game engines that run on both PC and consoles, will likely not take GPGPU seriously for a while yet. Then again, PC landscape changes every year but regardless Wii U should definitely be able to handle some computations, as that is sort of the point of GPUs.
R
Rösti
Unconfirmed Member
The most recent talk about Unreal Engine 4 and its intended platforms has been interesting, but even without Unreal Engine 4 and a Direct3D 11.x equivalent, shouldn't the Wii U be able to utilize DirectCompute (compute shader) anyway? It's been around since '08 and also operates in Direct3D 10.x environments. Sure, in a sub 11.x environment you won't get access to any atomic instructions and thread amount is overall slightly lower, but it should be enough for what Nintendo wants to do, and whatever API they have chosen can anyway be streamlined to fit given demands.
I read that after my answer, seriously, asking for people to backlash/lynch someone that try to contribute in a (well i thought it was) friendly thread, and seemingly taking pleasure to do it (like "hey other people think like me, it's a relief ! let's lynch him !") is just...i don't have the words.
The guy has a real problem against me, that's all.
Krev, you don't like me, that's fine, but express it one time (i have some memory), and by PM, spare the thread of this, thanks.
Actually if what you discribe above happens, PS4 and Xbox3 games, won't look much better than Wii U games, basically the physics will be more prebaked (like in BF3) on the Wii U, while PS4 and Xbox3 will have true destruction, that is hugely expensive to do from a performance perspective though, so Xbox3/PS4's graphics will tone down to compensate, allow Wii U to catch up. I think Devs will balance this, but unless it's a separate GPU, (like the rumored APU for PS4) I doubt developers will end up using GPGPU heavily, just because their games won't be able to compete graphically with some "prefaked" physics and AI.
Rösti;37667191 said:
We should assume that it will definitely be able to, as AMD is making the GPU, and it's been a core component as you've said for 4 years now, but it will likely be striped of GCN's more heavy compute focus, but like I describe just above here, that might work to it's advantage.
Pretty much.
If I read a post that's teasing the next reveal, I kinda go, "oh.. that's nice" and then I scroll down to the next one. And in-between those teasing posts, he brings some nice, pleasant conversation. There are far juicier things to get worked-up over, I would think.
I guess different people have different tolerance levels for different posting styles. Some things that drive me up the wall wouldn't make others bat an eye, and vice-versa.
UncleSporky
Member
Does Alberto really know something? The only posts I remember seeing from him were just logical and reasonable (perhaps too reasonable) speculation. Links?
Smiles and Cries
Member
If you guys are not careful people will just stop telling us stuff out of fear of looking like asshats
we should all try and be more considerate to the posting styles of each person who has this info
maybe IdeaMan being in France feels much more secure to post longer while the hit and run guys living next door a developer friend or working in the industry in the US feel less safe to tease too much
regardless we are starting down a path that will only end with us losing potential sources
why blame IdeaMan? Its Nintendo's fault we only have crumbs for info
we should all try and be more considerate to the posting styles of each person who has this info
maybe IdeaMan being in France feels much more secure to post longer while the hit and run guys living next door a developer friend or working in the industry in the US feel less safe to tease too much
regardless we are starting down a path that will only end with us losing potential sources
why blame IdeaMan? Its Nintendo's fault we only have crumbs for info
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
You're thinking within the limited bubble of current gen game design. Battlefield 3 was targeted towards consoles. EA and DICE have admitted this. Prebaked and downscaling was necessary, but the game's core design was always keeping current generation systems in mind. There's next to nothing overly significant about Battlefield 3's destruction or physics engine that couldn't be replicated fairly convincingly on modern consoles with prebaked effects.
So I'm not talking about that kind of stuff. Think outside the bubble, on a grander scale, with greater complexity of physics and destructions calculations, where they are not a gimmick or cheap effect, but integral to the game itself. There's is still a tremendous amount more we can do with physics in video games, and largely haven't been able to do due to processing limitations. You can only prebake so far, while you're also downscaling everything else, until you lose the game design itself.
TAS
Member
Yeah..tell me about it. If you have something to say, say it like a man. This teasing crap is so lame. It's reminiscent of games we used to play in high school--on girls. :|
fabricated backlash
Member
Oh don't be so melodramatic.
I value your contributions to these threads but you seem to take the criticism too personal. It really should come as no surprise that people start to become tense. And it's definetly not surprising given that you decided to deliver your info the way you do.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
IdeaMan is Yamauchi and ShockingAlberto is Bill Trinen.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Krev is simply saying ideaman says things like hes gonna "drop a bomb." (I remeber ideaman said something like that.) But when he does its not a bomb at all its just something really miniscule..Its like saying someone bought you a chicken dinner, but when you get its like 4pc mcnugget box. lol at my analogy anyways..I have nothing against ideaman or nothing like that Im just stating what I seem to observe. .Im all for spectulation, the reason I come to this thread. Personally I think krev should just forget about it and we all move on.
Only if I can be Reggie
yes this is what we all need. although it hasn't worked once in any of the 5 threads, this is all we need to calm down.
what happened to discussion? as stated a million times already, it's supposed to be a speculation thread. not a begging for a leak every 3 secs like a crackhead. now everybody wants to attack the one person that gives us some pretty decent insider info if you ask me. i know it's a Gaf tradition to be hyped but it doesn't have to mean we've become mentally challenged over not hearing news that we SHOULDN'T even expect to hear, even this close to E3.
DaSorcerer7
Member
This thread delivers on all levels
UncleSporky
Member
I am fine with that as long as they also bring one of those containers of honey mustard.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
lmao lol
R
Rösti
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, I find this kind of behavior arbitrary. If anyone doubts you or finds what you write fallible they sure can express such thoughts but to attack you in various ways for the information you provide is distressing. And you don't pen down any jargon either, although some of what you write, in relation to what most people want to hear about hardware etc., is immanently fractional (for a reason you have described).
While you of course have no obligation at all to provide something substantial about Wii U's hardware, for example RAM specifications, GPU memory interface etc., it would certainly put some skeptics to reconsider their stance on the matter. What you have for us later in the month, the megaton story as it has been called, could perhaps change things.
While I do not always find great enthusiasm in your snippets of information, I like your writing and you often spur interesting discussions. And who would dislike that?
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