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The Wii U Speculation Thread V: The Final Frontier

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EC what do you think about this IdeaMan bashing topic trending in here?

Any other thread that went too far off topic would soon be closed right? Just wondering if people are not noticing that we have gone too far off topic
 

BurntPork

Banned
It might be able to handle compute shaders. I just don't know if it will, or to what extent.

Like, even if it does, what if there's a shift next gen to compute shader heavy engines? What if UE4 takes massive advantage of GPGPU processing, and the Wii U's more traditional architectural slips up in this area? Meanwhile the next Xbox and PlayStation take such things into account, and perform pretty with with engines built from the ground up to dominate with compute shaders.

I don't think well get another Wii situation, which was literally a worse case scenario of a system that could do nothing that current gen engines really needed. I just don't know enough about either platform to write problems off.

Like, Battlefield 3 is a DX11 exclusive game on PC, but runs 'fine' on the 360 and PS3. That's cool. But you're also halving the player count for online rounds, reshaping the way many multiplayer games are played. Sure the Wii U will get ports, but where will the line be drawn? What if we see a surge of games featuring heavy procedural destruction on a large scale? The Wii U might be able to handle the shaders, the textures, and the poly count (appropriately downscaled), but can it handle everything else? Can it faithfully run the game as a whole, built on engines designed to simulate and render these environments?

And this is the unknown that we're all stuck with, and why I'm still wary about drawing up current gen multipliers and situational examples. Even knowing what the Wii U's hardware is, it would be difficult to see how it will handle next generation ports until we know just how those games will actually work. None of us know how UE4 works. Or the next gen iteration of Frostbite. Or CryEngine 3's full advancements. Or what kind of games we'll see that do new things. Until then, we're all guessing.
Can't argue with anything you said. I just choose to remain hopeful. I'm sure that you all prefer how I am right now to me bringing everyone down, right?
 
Rösti;37667576 said:
Yeah, I find this kind of behavior arbitrary. If anyone doubts you or finds what you write fallible they sure can express such thoughts but to attack you in various ways for the information you provide is distressing. And you don't pen down any jargon either, although some of what you write, in relation to what most people want to hear about hardware etc., is immanently fractional (for a reason you have described).

While you of course have no obligation at all to provide something substantial about Wii U's hardware, for example RAM specifications, GPU memory interface etc., it would certainly put some skeptics to reconsider their stance on the matter. What you have for us later in the month, the megaton story as it has been called, could perhaps change things.

While I do not always find great enthusiasm in your snippets of information, I like your writing and you often spur interesting discussions. And who would dislike that?

I think it's mainly that Ideaman's posts bring up bad memories from the previous gen where there were tons of people going around nextgen speculation threads dropping 'bombs' that turned out to be completely false, meanwhile posters were worshipping them and hanging on their every breath.

It's like those annoucements of announcements that people keep getting riled up by. You either say something or you don't, you shouldn't drop sly hints that say one thing whilst they could really mean anything and intentionally keep a whole thread hinging on your every word.
 
Nintendo need Wii U to hit hard with the core gamer demographic in the launch window period. They're going to have to turn around perception among the major publishers very quickly if they want the platform to have momentum with this demographic, which is necessary to secure major ports of the major multiplatform games of the coming generation.
If they can never get the publishers to stop betting against Nintendo, they'll never see a change in this area.

Agreed completely. You know, if Wii U actually can't run UE4, Epic must be praying that this doesn't happen.
 
I've been on GAF too long... I knew backlash was coming but I thought it would come with the Meltdowns closer to E3

I am really afraid for this thread come E3... Nintendo Meltdowns are the worst, epic and funny to watch but they can mean tons of bannings

you guys cannot even relax and deal with a little teasing and hint dropping now, how would you survive E3?
 
What I would like to know in the absence of the actual news is whether it's something that nobody has proposed yet and/or has been talked about to death already.

I don't think many people will care if it's something that's already been discussed as a possibility for ages, but if we know that it's something really new and interesting, that points us in a direction for discussion. I.E., think up something new to talk about!

Maybe it's holograms! Maybe the WiiU's screen will be 3D like the 3DS and that's why it only supports one pad!
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Can't argue with anything you said. I just choose to remain hopeful. I'm sure that you all prefer how I am right now to me bringing everyone down, right?

I like you BurntPork. Even if you are insane.

EC what do you think about this IdeaMan bashing topic trending in here?

I think it needs to stop, where it is no longer constructive.

IdeaMan is entitled to post what he wants, and hype what he wants. And if you want to call him out on something, or disagree with his sourcing and legitimacy, you're entitled to.

But it would be nice to do so in a civil manner that doesn't resort to personal attacks. That isn't appropriate at all, and if it does keep up, turning this thread into a mess of arguments, I'll nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Play nice.
 

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
Krev is simply saying ideaman says things like hes gonna "drop a bomb." (I remeber ideaman said something like that.) But when he does its not a bomb at all its just something really miniscule..Its like saying someone bought you a chicken dinner, but when you get its like 4pc mcnugget box. lol at my analogy anyways..I have nothing against ideaman or nothing like that Im just stating what I seem to observe. .Im all for spectulation, the reason I come to this thread. Personally I think krev should just forget about it and we all move on.

It's wrong.

The bombs are thread worthy, i'm currently in discussion with mods to see if i can create these threads in the near future, if i'm becoming a member one day.

The rest of the info was systematically described in announcements 2 or 3 days before the post since 2 months as "not groundbreaking but it could be interesting & nurture the speculation", others like Ace explained it well before.

Rösti;37667576 said:
Yeah, I find this kind of behavior arbitrary. If anyone doubts you or finds what you write fallible they sure can express such thoughts but to attack you in various ways for the information you provide is distressing. And you don't pen down any jargon either, although some of what you write, in relation to what most people want to hear about hardware etc., is immanently fractional (for a reason you have described).

While you of course have no obligation at all to provide something substantial about Wii U's hardware, for example RAM specifications, GPU memory interface etc., it would certainly put some skeptics to reconsider their stance on the matter. What you have for us later in the month, the megaton story as it has been called, could perhaps change things.

While I do not always find great enthusiasm in your snippets of information, I like your writing and you often spur interesting discussions. And who would dislike that?

Thanks my favorite detective :) And people can express their doubts and even their annoyance toward some of my posts writing style, the history of those speculation threads shows that i myself encouraged people to do it and have no problem with it. But repeating it nearly everytime i post, and above all jumping to personal attacks, that is not tolerable.

_____________

Anyway, please, if we can stop this conversation, it would be cool :)
 
I've been on GAF too long... I knew backlash was coming but I thought it would come with the Meltdowns closer to E3

I am really afraid for this thread come E3... Nintendo Meltdowns are the worst, epic and funny to watch but they can mean tons of bannings

you guys cannot even relax and deal with a little teasing and hint dropping now, how would you survive E3?

The way I look at it, E3 is so close, whatever these guys with """"""""""insider information""""""" say is irrelevant.

It'd be annoying if we were a year away but it's right down the road and I could care less if anything else is farted out whether it be really quiet and scentless or really boisterous and stinky.

In fact, I will continue to post in this thread but put EVERYBODY on ignore.
 

z0m3le

Banned
You're thinking within the limited bubble of current gen game design. Battlefield 3 was targeted towards consoles. EA and DICE have admitted this. Prebaked and downscaling was necessary, but the game's core design was always keeping current generation systems in mind. There's next to nothing overly significant about Battlefield 3's destruction or physics engine that couldn't be replicated fairly convincingly on modern consoles with prebaked effects.

So I'm not talking about that kind of stuff. Think outside the bubble, on a grander scale, with greater complexity of physics and destructions calculations, where they are not a gimmick or cheap effect, but integral to the game itself. There's is still a tremendous amount more we can do with physics in video games, and largely haven't been able to do due to processing limitations. You can only prebake so far, while you're also downscaling everything else, until you lose the game design itself.

From a pure game play perspective, physic has already reached the level it needed to back with Half-Life 2, everything after that has been eye candy, there is literally nothing from a design perspective that is necessary to avoid breaking game play beyond HL2, in fact, I would very seriously argue that TRUE physic can't be designed for without very limited scope, it basically would be virtually impossible to design a level that would play out completely correctly given the randomness the player could achieve with real world physics.

So it is mostly eye candy beyond a certain point, which is where the pre-faked stuff would come in, via BF3, and I'm not alone in this either, the level designers of BF3 designed the destruction to be limited in scope as to not ruin the game play.
 
Agreed completely. You know, if Wii U actually can't run UE4, Epic must be praying that this doesn't happen.

I wish there was a way to pin down what matters more to publishers - the mere ability to easily port their games to WiiU, or something that demonstrates that core gamers will buy their games in droves on WiiU.

Of course the two are inextricable. Who would buy the multiplat version of a game if it's worst on WiiU, or for this first year, who will buy the multiplat version of a game if it's only slightly better on WiiU? The console will have a smaller install base and people are attached to their gamerscores and devs will quickly arrive at the conclusion that it's not worth porting, UE4 or no.
 

ThatObviousUser

ὁ αἴσχιστος παῖς εἶ
Wii U Speculation Thread VI: Deliver us from evil

ourMS.png


FINISH IT!!
 

Sardello

Member
This thread is really "Power Centric", but there are so many aspects that must be kept into consideration that are totally ignored.

My biggest concerns about this console are:
1) Online infrastructure - Nintendo has a lot do demostrate on this topic and the 3Ds is not the huge step ahead everyone would have expected
2) Launch titles - Nintendo thought the biggest problem with 3Ds first months was the lack of first party games. Will something change with Wii U? How many titles available on D1?

Everyone here is aware this console will not have an huge power compared to the current HD console generation, so why keep discussing about this console war topic?

I'm afraid for games and online, not for Powah multiplier :(
 

BurntPork

Banned
I like you BurntPork. Even if you are insane.



I think it needs to stop, where it is no longer constructive.

IdeaMan is entitled to post what he wants, and hype what he wants. And if you want to call him out on something, or disagree with his sourcing and legitimacy, you're entitled to.

But it would be nice to do so in a civil manner that doesn't resort to personal attacks. That isn't appropriate at all, and if it does keep up, turning this thread into a mess of arguments, I'll nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Play nice.
Hey, insane people are fun. Especially ones that are a lot more intelligent than you think. Some people think that I'll someday be a mad scientist, but then I tell them, "programmers can't be mad scientists, silly!" And then they leave me alone.
 
The megaton is that you can use the controller outside of the room the console is but the room's walls have to match the color of the console.

Gamestop will exclusively sell that hue of Nintendo paint.
 

HylianTom

Banned
I'm afraid for games and online, not for Powah multiplier :(
I can tell a difference in tone in here when different topics come-up. When people are discussing power and jigawatts and how-many-hamsters-running-on-wheels, etc, the tone seems a bit more tense.

But man.. when we talk games, the conversation seems to take a pleasant, airy, light tone. True, there's debate over series X or Game 23, but it's still different.

And when chaos reigns? Best to take a nap!
 

Javier

Member
UPad comes with its own SD Card slot to transfer downloadable games to it and play even outside console's range.

That would be a megaton, even though I'm not actually expecting this to happen.
 
Hey guys who would you ban-proof for E3 (ban-proof = Drinky Crow status)

my shortlist (the guys I really need around to have fun here)

BurntPork
AceBandage
HylianTom
IdeaMan
bgassassin

who would you ban-proof from the Nintendo Meltdowns when the true WiiU details come out?
 
It might be able to handle compute shaders. I just don't know if it will, or to what extent.

Like, even if it does, what if there's a shift next gen to compute shader heavy engines? What if UE4 takes massive advantage of GPGPU processing, and the Wii U's more traditional architectural slips up in this area? Meanwhile the next Xbox and PlayStation take such things into account, and perform pretty with with engines built from the ground up to dominate with compute shaders.

I don't think well get another Wii situation, which was literally a worse case scenario of a system that could do nothing that current gen engines really needed. I just don't know enough about either platform to write problems off.

Like, Battlefield 3 is a DX11 exclusive game on PC, but runs 'fine' on the 360 and PS3. That's cool. But you're also halving the player count for online rounds, reshaping the way many multiplayer games are played. Sure the Wii U will get ports, but where will the line be drawn? What if we see a surge of games featuring heavy procedural destruction on a large scale? The Wii U might be able to handle the shaders, the textures, and the poly count (appropriately downscaled), but can it handle everything else? Can it faithfully run the game as a whole, built on engines designed to simulate and render these environments?

And this is the unknown that we're all stuck with, and why I'm still wary about drawing up current gen multipliers and situational examples. Even knowing what the Wii U's hardware is, it would be difficult to see how it will handle next generation ports until we know just how those games will actually work. None of us know how UE4 works. Or the next gen iteration of Frostbite. Or CryEngine 3's full advancements. Or what kind of games we'll see that do new things. Until then, we're all guessing.

so what were these ps4 target specs again?
 

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
This is something that discedit you in my eyes (you don't care and you do well, but try to understand my point of view).

Why do you aim all this attention? Tell what you want to tell and give MOD the chance to decide or not to create a new thread with your quote.

Why do you need to become member? Are you such a vain person?

What ? Where i said that ? I could still be junior for 5 years, the tag doesn't matter at all, i was a reader of GAF since its creation, with no account, do you think i want to be praised or reach a status here, 10 years later ? What do i have to gain from that, it's not like i have a personal blog linked in my profile with donations links, it's not like i use this nickname elsewhere and benefit from i don't know what. I'm just interested by the possibility to create a thread. And why ?

small to medium news = on this thread

big news, thread-worthy = on their own thread

I don't know, this is how it works since forever.

And i answered to someone basically saying that i promised bombs every day, whereas even before i wrote a post, other regulars here like Ace said it was factually false.
 

Sirius

Member
This thread is alive, it's been a while..

1. @IdeaMan: In short; cool stuff bro.
2. Let's keep this thread healthy people.
3. The best expectations are low expectations - regardless of the turn-out the end result will be contentment.
 

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
I can tell a difference in tone in here when different topics come-up. When people are discussing power and jigawatts and how-many-hamsters-running-on-wheels, etc, the tone seems a bit more tense.

But man.. when we talk games, the conversation seems to take a pleasant, airy, light tone. True, there's debate over series X or Game 23, but it's still different.

And when chaos reigns? Best to take a nap!

I think more conversations about the gameplay possibilities allowed by the Wii U will happen once E3 ends.

With the following profusion of hands-on written by journalist conveying their enthusiasm for the creative & fun ideas they experienced on the system (in several titles), people will think of other possibilities, other implementations, gamedesign concepts improvements, etc.
 
Hey guys who would you ban-proof for E3 (ban-proof = Drinky Crow status)

my shortlist (the guys I really need around to have fun here)

BurntPork
AceBandage
HylianTom
IdeaMan
bgassassin

who would you ban-proof from the Nintendo Meltdowns when the true WiiU details come out?

Not Ace, he wouldn't melt down, he'd just put all the news in his own dreamy gleamy perspective.

Burntpork will take hostages, mod himself and then self-ban after the Wii U revelations so he's the better option.

HylianTom won't respond that badly, he'll be like Ace and look on the bright side but not be oblivious that Nintendo's sky was falling.

I don't know about that other guy, his avatar is so disgusting that no news will likely affect him drastically one way or the other.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
From a pure game play perspective, physic has already reached the level it needed to back with Half-Life 2, everything after that has been eye candy, there is literally nothing from a design perspective that is necessary to avoid breaking game play beyond HL2, in fact, I would very seriously argue that TRUE physic can't be designed for without very limited scope, it basically would be virtually impossible to design a level that would play out completely correctly given the randomness the player could achieve with real world physics.

So it is mostly eye candy beyond a certain point, which is where the pre-faked stuff would come in, via BF3, and I'm not alone in this either, the level designers of BF3 designed the destruction to be limited in scope as to not ruin the game play.

This is so closed minded I'm not even going to argue with it. If you think the realm of physics has reached it's peak on an interactive and mechanical level, with all advancements being little more than eye candy, then I envy the surprise you'll feel when you experience otherwise.

so what were these ps4 target specs again?

I'm not going to post them here because I don't want to.
 

Krev

Unconfirmed Member
Agreed completely. You know, if Wii U actually can't run UE4, Epic must be praying that this doesn't happen.
It would be a very funny turn of events. Last gen, many developers understandably bet against Wii, but things still turned out okay for them because of the exodus of core gamers from the platform (largely a result of the decision of HD invested developers). If by some miracle Nintendo actually succeeds at picking up the core market in a huge way, where does that leave companies like Epic who have a lot of money riding on PS4/720 becoming the machines of choce for enthusiast gamers?
It's not going to happen, but it's fun to think about.
And people can express their doubts and even their annoyance toward some of my posts writing style, the history of those speculation threads shows that i myself encouraged people to do it and have no problem with it.
Really now.
 

EDarkness

Member
Why do you need to become member? Are you such a vain person?

Because there is something about being able to create your own thread exactly the way you want it. Having someone else do it just isn't the same. The presentation and the ability to adjust the information can be important to people. Being a member just gives someone the ability to adjust things the way they want. I can totally see where he's coming from, in his position, I'd want the same thing.

My only real beef with this is that I think he shouldn't have said anything until he was ready to do what he wanted to do in the way he wanted to do it.
 
What is your source though? Last we had a discussion like this (which was way back in the first thread) you said it was someone on the IGN forums. Unlike harker, lherre, and Arkam, I don't recall you being involved in the industry.

You're twisting that. I was posting stuff he did on IGN boards and started putting "source" in quotes. Sounds like you missed my post in the last thread (I think. They move so fast.) where I said starting the first thread along with some accurate guesses opened some unexpected doors and a few have shared pieces here and there). I've also said I just put stuff out there and let people decide for themselves. But there have been later posts by others saying the same thing.

You said you've seen the PS4 specs, and I've been talking about them recently. Was what I said wrong?

Anyway, based on the things I've heard I stand my view. Wii U is clearly more powerful than PS360, but not on par with PS4 and Xbox 3.

Pretty sure he means "Well I'm 100% certain Wii U is more powerful than 'at best slightly better than current hardware'. So where do we go from here?"

It's a bit poorly worded.

Yep. It was late and a last minute decision to even post that.
 
my only worry about the PS4/Durango specs are if they also have a touchscreen controller at launch I think that would be a much larger blow to the WiiU than having it lagging behind the twins
 
My take on IdeaMan is he seems very nice and his posts can be fun to dissect and it seems like maybe he's given us at least a few tid bits of real, albeit vague info. Some people here are being too harsh on him but as far as the two main points here: posting style and "Does he have any real info?" as the old sayings go, "Familiarity breeds contempt" (people getting annoyed with his loooooong drawn out teases and unwillingness to change up his style even a bit) and eventually you gotta "Put your money where your mouth is." Look at John Harker's bomb last week on analog click. Quick, clean, to the point and awesome.

Now I'm not saying all of IdeaMan's posts have to be like that, but since you teased yesterday about this 'awesome new feature that deserves its own thread,' then why not give the info to someone here and let them make the thread already if you really do have insider info? At this point we need a real sizable "nugget" otherwise we're heading toward what someone else just said, "Is IdeaMan for real or is he like the myriad of other fake insiders from the last two gens" who just had fun yanking our chains. So again, what's the awesome info that deserves a thread?
 

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
+ your other defamatory posts where you said that i "insulted" people ? (lol, because pointing out to just ONE person that he seems too focused, obsessed, with the posting style of someone, is an insult ? others already answered to you on that matter, it's ridiculous AND defamatory).

1/3 of its late participation was bitter posts about me & my messages. And everytime someone expressed its doubts, he jumped to the ship. It was akin to an obsession. I get it, if you want to say to someone you don't like his posting style, you doubt him, that's fine, but repeating it 10 times ? There's a problem. And the search function of the forum proves it.

Now, that's it Krev ? Can the thread be spared of all this pollution ? Thanks :)
 

z0m3le

Banned
This is so closed minded I'm not even going to argue with it. If you think the realm of physics has reached it's peak on an interactive and mechanical level, with all advancements being little more than eye candy, then I envy the surprise you'll feel when you experience otherwise.

What I mean is that every aspect of physics that relates to HOW the game is played, is already doable today, eye candy might not be how you would like to describe the extras, but stuff like being able to blow up everything in site could actually hurt game play, and better collision detection sounds great, yes I'll love it, but it is functional today, that is what I'm saying when I say eye candy.

I could be wrong, one example would be enough for me to change my mind, but my creative side says that every useful feature of physics can be done today or prefaked to become functional.
 
Not Ace, he wouldn't melt down, he'd just put all the news in his own dreamy gleamy perspective.

Burntpork will take hostages, mod himself and then self-ban after the Wii U revelations so he's the better option.

HylianTom won't respond that badly, he'll be like Ace and look on the bright side but not be oblivious that Nintendo's sky was falling.

I don't know about that other guy, his avatar is so disgusting that no news will likely affect him drastically one way or the other.

the whole point of Drink Crow status is the TROLL FREE PASS
they could react all they want to without fear :3
 

Kokonoe

Banned
Hey guys who would you ban-proof for E3 (ban-proof = Drinky Crow status)

my shortlist (the guys I really need around to have fun here)

BurntPork
AceBandage
HylianTom
IdeaMan
bgassassin

who would you ban-proof from the Nintendo Meltdowns when the true WiiU details come out?

Does it really get that bad?
 

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
I'm re-reading the 2006 E3 thread right now. So great.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
You're twisting that. I was posting stuff he did on IGN boards and started putting "source" in quotes. Sounds like you missed my post in the last thread (I think. They move so fast.) where I said starting the first thread along with some accurate guesses opened some unexpected doors and a few have shared pieces here and there). I've also said I just put stuff out there and let people decide for themselves. But there have been later posts by others saying the same thing.

You said you've seen the PS4 specs, and I've been talking about them recently. Was what I said wrong?

I mentioned the first thread as that's the only conversation I've had with you about the specs. I don't follow these threads close enough (because yeah, they move fast), so it's likely I missed any additional details.

As for the PS4 specs, I don't know really know what to think. I'm impressed, and I'd say it is significantly stronger than what I know about the Wii U (which admittedly is limited). In terms of next generation ports, I can't judge until I see what the games are doing.

I don't think it will be another Wii, because the Wii was uniquely shit :p.
 

z0m3le

Banned
Anyway, based on the things I've heard I stand my view. Wii U is clearly more powerful than PS360, but not on par with PS4 and Xbox 3.

I believe that whole heartily, heck I even think that the distance is probably greater than PS2 to Xbox, but I don't think it's much farther than that. Still there should be nothing stopping ports from coming across all 3 platforms this time, at least from what I've gathered.

And while I believe a dedicated GPGPU could really show off true next generation graphics (from things like A.I., freely moving strands of hair, destruction, dust, everything else.) I don't think, functionally it could produce something that can't be faked.
 
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