Okay, I'm so late, but I don't care. Amazing ;_;
I almost teared up seeing
Lumiere
Damn you, Disney. <3
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Theme Parks & Roller Coasters |OT| The Happiest Place on GAF
- Thread starter Goldrusher
- Start date
Okay, I'm so late, but I don't care. Amazing ;_;
I almost teared up seeing
Damn you, Disney. <3
The Xtortionist
Member
Orlando United reported that a crane has been spotted behind Jurassic Park River Adventure at IOA. Jurassic Park expansion has been rumored for a while and Uni will need something for summer 2014 since Potter 2.0 is now due for late 2014-early 2015.
D
Deleted member 20415
Unconfirmed Member
I timed my Dec. Disney trip to check out New Fantasyland and take my first trip to Islands of Adventure and really my first trip back to Universal in something like 15 years. I'm super excited and can't wait to see everything both parks have to offer. 
TheContact
Member
I went to Six Flags in New England the other day, at the very last day it was open, and had a blast. NO LINES. Not a single line. I waited 3 minutes to ride the Superman, then I got off and went right back on without waiting. I went on every roller coaster at least once except the wooden one, because fuck that. Superman is still the best. Going weightless a bunch of times, feels amazing.
Zoso
It's been a long time, been a long time, been a long lonely lonely lonely lonely lonely time.
This summer I made it to Six Flags Great America and Hersheypark. Mostly to ride their new coasters, X-Flight & Skyrush. X-Flight was a very fun and well rounded ride. I like the freedom and near misses that are possible with the wingrider trains. Too bad Great America always seems to get the first prototype of a new B&M design before bigger and better versions are built elsewhere(Gatekeeper). But it's still a very good ride.
Skyrush was just insane. Probably the most intense coaster I've ridden. The forces are very powerful and the airtime is to the point of almost being painful. But Ioved it. I rode it 3 times during my visit and never managed to keep my hands up for the whole ride. It's out of control, but amazing.
I met this guy when he was setting his record on The Boss in 2000. Really cool guy. And he has my respect for marathoning some really rough coasters.
Skyrush was just insane. Probably the most intense coaster I've ridden. The forces are very powerful and the airtime is to the point of almost being painful. But Ioved it. I rode it 3 times during my visit and never managed to keep my hands up for the whole ride. It's out of control, but amazing.
I met this guy when he was setting his record on The Boss in 2000. Really cool guy. And he has my respect for marathoning some really rough coasters.
The Xtortionist
Member
I timed my Dec. Disney trip to check out New Fantasyland and take my first trip to Islands of Adventure and really my first trip back to Universal in something like 15 years. I'm super excited and can't wait to see everything both parks have to offer.
I'm jealous. Your first time on Spidey and Forbidden Journey will be some combination of amazing and perplexing (in a good way). Universal has single rider lines for almost everything so make sure to use them if you're going alone.
The Xtortionist
Member
MikeHaggar
Member
This summer I made it to Six Flags Great America and Hersheypark. Mostly to ride their new coasters, X-Flight & Skyrush. X-Flight was a very fun and well rounded ride. I like the freedom and near misses that are possible with the wingrider trains. Too bad Great America always seems to get the first prototype of a new B&M design before bigger and better versions are built elsewhere(Gatekeeper). But it's still a very good ride.
Skyrush was just insane. Probably the most intense coaster I've ridden. The forces are very powerful and the airtime is to the point of almost being painful. But Ioved it. I rode it 3 times during my visit and never managed to keep my hands up for the whole ride. It's out of control, but amazing.
I met this guy when he was setting his record on The Boss in 2000. Really cool guy. And he has my respect for marathoning some really rough coasters.
that's awesome that you went to hersheypark to check out skyrush. i live in hershey and watched them build it. i live very close to the park, so i'd walk down several times a week to check out the progress. and i have to agree with you about skyrush--very intense ride and a great addition to the park!
Just got back from a 3 week vacation in California with obviously a stop at Disneyland and Universal along the way.
Like I told earlier in this thread, Indiana Jones is closed for refurbishment till early 2013 and my girlfriend was devastated when she found out but at least she knew beforehand.
What we didn't know (and didn't expect) was the stunning amount of rides closed during the day because of difficulties.
Matterhorn? "Closed! Scheduled to reopen in 3 days!". No mention of this whatsoever on the website. If you're going to list Indiana Jones as being closed, mention the other scheduled closures as well!
The Muppets? "Closed for IMPROVEMENTS". Which was obvious bullshit, since they needed the theatre for an "exclusive preview" of Frankenweenie. Can't wait to see what improvement they made.. ahem.
Storybook Land? "Closed for refurbishment." Once again, no mention of this on their website.
The Disneyland Railroad ride? Closed for the day after technical difficulties at 1:00pm! Seriously..
Tomorrowland? Closed at 5:30pm because of private event.
Splash Mountain? Was closed for 2 hours, eventually reopened. Same happened with Big Thunder Mountain and California Screamin'.
It was my first time at Disneyland and I gotta say I was loving the whole historic vibe the park has, but man, it was hard to keep my spirits up after handing over $160 per person for 2 days.
Universal was pretty cool, although a lot smaller than the one in Orlando. I don't see the point of having Betty Boop and Cat In The Hat stores taking up valuable space in the park if the related attractions are 2500 miles away. The Citywalk was a lot better than in Orlando though and Halloween Horror Nights and Transformers were amazing.
I'm not a huge fan of the Spiderman ride in Orlando, so I wasn't that hyped for Transformers but boy, did that thing blow me away. The sound design, the voices, the gravity effects, it all comes together to create one hell of a ride.
Like I told earlier in this thread, Indiana Jones is closed for refurbishment till early 2013 and my girlfriend was devastated when she found out but at least she knew beforehand.
What we didn't know (and didn't expect) was the stunning amount of rides closed during the day because of difficulties.
Matterhorn? "Closed! Scheduled to reopen in 3 days!". No mention of this whatsoever on the website. If you're going to list Indiana Jones as being closed, mention the other scheduled closures as well!
The Muppets? "Closed for IMPROVEMENTS". Which was obvious bullshit, since they needed the theatre for an "exclusive preview" of Frankenweenie. Can't wait to see what improvement they made.. ahem.
Storybook Land? "Closed for refurbishment." Once again, no mention of this on their website.
The Disneyland Railroad ride? Closed for the day after technical difficulties at 1:00pm! Seriously..
Tomorrowland? Closed at 5:30pm because of private event.
Splash Mountain? Was closed for 2 hours, eventually reopened. Same happened with Big Thunder Mountain and California Screamin'.
It was my first time at Disneyland and I gotta say I was loving the whole historic vibe the park has, but man, it was hard to keep my spirits up after handing over $160 per person for 2 days.
Universal was pretty cool, although a lot smaller than the one in Orlando. I don't see the point of having Betty Boop and Cat In The Hat stores taking up valuable space in the park if the related attractions are 2500 miles away. The Citywalk was a lot better than in Orlando though and Halloween Horror Nights and Transformers were amazing.
I'm not a huge fan of the Spiderman ride in Orlando, so I wasn't that hyped for Transformers but boy, did that thing blow me away. The sound design, the voices, the gravity effects, it all comes together to create one hell of a ride.
Bump
I decided that I'll be buying Six Flags Season passes this year for my siblings and myself. It's been too long since I got to have some fun. Anyone know of some good deals or something?
Also I wish my local six flags had this ride:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljpgyh1KYec
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep0aPms-tnE
Looks really fun.
I decided that I'll be buying Six Flags Season passes this year for my siblings and myself. It's been too long since I got to have some fun. Anyone know of some good deals or something?
Also I wish my local six flags had this ride:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljpgyh1KYec
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep0aPms-tnE
Looks really fun.
InaudibleWhispa
Member
Construction has begun on Alton Towers new coaster The Smiler. Looks pretty insane, at least 14 inversions (world record), 2 lift hills (one vertical) and world first secret element.
Plans are finally coming together for the Big Family Disney Trip; our first proper holiday in something like ten years, with family members convening in Orlando from the UK, France, New York and New Zealand. It's a monumental project!
At the moment the bit I'm most tense about... my shortest (not actually youngest, just shortest!) niece is 39.5". Can she grow half an inch in the next three months? It'll make planning rides a hell of a lot easier!
Anyhow, it happens that all this coincides with my Mum's birthday, and I'd like to take my parents out to a meal at WDW. I've had a few recommendations, and there's a few restaurants we're going to by default (Teppan Edo is always a must!), but does anyone have any recommendations for nice and non-rowdy restaurants to eat in? I've been musing on Be Our Guest, but I'm worried that that might be a bit too boisterous; it looks fairly crowded from the photos I've seen.
(Annoyingly, California Grill is closed for refurb, otherwise this would be easy!)
At the moment the bit I'm most tense about... my shortest (not actually youngest, just shortest!) niece is 39.5". Can she grow half an inch in the next three months? It'll make planning rides a hell of a lot easier!
Anyhow, it happens that all this coincides with my Mum's birthday, and I'd like to take my parents out to a meal at WDW. I've had a few recommendations, and there's a few restaurants we're going to by default (Teppan Edo is always a must!), but does anyone have any recommendations for nice and non-rowdy restaurants to eat in? I've been musing on Be Our Guest, but I'm worried that that might be a bit too boisterous; it looks fairly crowded from the photos I've seen.
(Annoyingly, California Grill is closed for refurb, otherwise this would be easy!)
Marvel-themed area coming to Hong Kong Disneyland:
http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2013/02/27/hong-kongs-disneyland-to-get-marvel-superheroes/
http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2013/02/27/hong-kongs-disneyland-to-get-marvel-superheroes/
The Xtortionist
Member
They'll have a hell of a time trying to top Spiderman at Islands of Adventure.
A lot of interesting stuff going on at their China parks between this and Shanghai. We'll see how it stacks up to Universal I guess.
InaudibleWhispa
Member
The new AT coaster is looking insane. This shows only half the inversions.
BigJonsson
Member
Good lord, that looks confusing
BertramCooper
Banned
Here's a video update from a couple of weeks ago on the progress of GateKeeper at Cedar Point.
The track is done and they're working on wiring and building the station.
The track is done and they're working on wiring and building the station.
KidA Seven
Member
Exterminieren
Banned
I've been following the progress of The Smiler at Alton Towers with interest. 15 inversions, apparently, with some "psychological" world's first element.
And the track looks crazy.
It also means that Oblivion got a much-needed touch up.
And the track looks crazy.
It also means that Oblivion got a much-needed touch up.
Exterminieren
Banned
The washing machine thing is a bust, but John Wardley came out and said that there'd be 5 new psychological elements to disorientate riders.
It might be a bust (remember Thirteen and it's "psychoster" hype?) but that's what they're going for. I wonder if it'll be a 4D affair with back prodders or something similar in the trains.
Has anyone had experience on going on a ride during a soft open?
I'm going to be in Orlando and at Sea World a few weeks before Antarctica officially opens- end of April through to something like 20th May. I'm sure the family would love it, and I gather that they're going through a few weeks of soft opening before it's all official.
The question is, can I do any *planning* around this? Is the normal practice to run it normally with only shutting down for brief periods, or is it "you'll only get on if you're in exactly the right place at exactly the right time"? Or is it even "You'll only get on if you Know Someone?"
(I'm also hoping Transformers at Universal Orlando will be doing soft opening at the same time, but I suspect it'll be bit too early for that to be opened)
I'm going to be in Orlando and at Sea World a few weeks before Antarctica officially opens- end of April through to something like 20th May. I'm sure the family would love it, and I gather that they're going through a few weeks of soft opening before it's all official.
The question is, can I do any *planning* around this? Is the normal practice to run it normally with only shutting down for brief periods, or is it "you'll only get on if you're in exactly the right place at exactly the right time"? Or is it even "You'll only get on if you Know Someone?"
(I'm also hoping Transformers at Universal Orlando will be doing soft opening at the same time, but I suspect it'll be bit too early for that to be opened)
Dr_Boris_Goltz
Banned
This makes me so excited.
InaudibleWhispa
Member
It would have to be the trains, or some kind of external 4D effect I'd think. There's doesn't seem to be a place for secret track and although they're not installed yet I can't see the lifts having anything special. I'd honestly be happy with just the track as it is -- who's gonna complain at 14-15 inversions -- anything else is a pleasant surprise. But yeah, John Wardley did say there's still a secret "world first" element. I'd hope he isn't the type to overhype something underwhelming like the marketers for Thirteen did.
R10Neymarfan
Member
OMG I didn't know GAF had a coaster enthusiast OT thread!!!!
chickdigger802
Banned
First time i've ever seen this thread. Really surprised to see Happy Valley shanghai on the list. That place was shithole the time i went last summer. I recall signs falling on visitors on launch day lol. but I guess it was the most thrilling experience i've had when I was on one of those pendulum disc ride things and my safety bar thing wouldn't lock properly (only thing holding it down was the little seatbelt buckle). I could feel gravity trying to get me out of my seat at times...
Had a good time at universal orlando island of adventure last holiday. Probably shouldn't have went on new years eve eve, but still good times even though waits were long (especially for harry potter stuff.). Always go for 'single rider' option to blaze past lines. And past 8pm, the lines are quite short. That weird cave looking restaurant was also probably the best theme park restaurant i've been to.
Had a good time at universal orlando island of adventure last holiday. Probably shouldn't have went on new years eve eve, but still good times even though waits were long (especially for harry potter stuff.). Always go for 'single rider' option to blaze past lines. And past 8pm, the lines are quite short. That weird cave looking restaurant was also probably the best theme park restaurant i've been to.
Exterminieren
Banned
The thing is, Thirteen is a nice, thrilling, intermediate coaster. It's no Nemesis or whatever, but it fills a nice gap in between that and the Runaway Mine Train. However, it was so ludicrously overhyped that it soured it for a lot of people, and it's only just now getting widely reappraised.
Lee Chaolan
Member
GateKeeper is the most badass name for a coaster. Who else is hype for this? How many are going to Cedar Point this year? I for sure am
I believe Alton Towers' are still very highly regarded among aficionados; they do seem to have a knack for getting interesting tech features quite early on.
I should highlight that that's from the POV of someone looking in from the outside, I just seem to notice a lot of interest whenever a new SW is on the way, and there's a lot coming up for The Smiler.
Goldrusher
Member
They're cheating a little bit with that number though.
It has 15 inversions, but it also has 2 lifthills.
The first track has 8 inversions, the second one has 7.
Will make for some nice dueling:
InaudibleWhispa
Member
Yeah, I agree. For what it is Thirteen is a great little coaster, it was just marketed completely wrong as something terrifying. When I went with a bunch of friends the year it opened I told them it's a new family coaster, like a step up from the RMT and they enjoyed it in that regard. If I let the marketing get to them there's no way it wouldn't disappoint. As well as overhyping it for enthusiasts, they probably scared away some people that would otherwise enjoy it too.
We have some world class coasters, just not as many since we don't have many theme parks. We also lack any height/speed monsters, but that doesn't bother me as much as long as the layout is interesting. Nemesis is my favourite coaster despite being far from the tallest and fastest, even by UK standards.
Yeah, that aspect should be quite exciting. It seems to be designed so that cars on parts 1 and 2 of the track cross each other in several key areas, such as the cobra roll/batwing knot.
Exterminieren
Banned
Not really. There are obviously more coasters in the States, and bigger budgets too, but the best of the British coasters can stand up nicely. You've got to go a long way to find a coaster as good an all-rounder as Nemesis.
In terms of ambiance, setting and selection of rides, Alton Towers is probably pound for pound my favourite theme park that I've ever been to.
Goldrusher
Member
With the final track piece installed, we have a new world's biggest loop !
Making it even more awesome, there's a hill going over it, which is a crazy world's first.
How big?!
49 m / 160 ft
Where?!
Full Throttle at Six Flags Magic Mountain in California
Making it even more awesome, there's a hill going over it, which is a crazy world's first.
How big?!
49 m / 160 ft
Where?!
Full Throttle at Six Flags Magic Mountain in California
Cross post from another Forum of my trip report to Disney Resort Paris at the End of May:
As I'm from Austria and am trying to improve my spoken/written English, please feel free to critique my writing. Be it style, expression or orthography.
Act I – Foreword
Act II – Arrival in Paris/Paris
Act III – Arrival in DRP
Act IV – Stay in DRP
Act V – Final day in DRP/Departure
Act I
It has been a long time, 10 years to the day to be exact. A funny coincidence that was not planned and I just noticed when I started my little write up.
Anyway, this little return to the place of many joyous holidays of my teenager years came about due to Groupon offering stays at the Magic Circus Hotel for 100€ per night at the end of last year. An offer I could not refuse.
Regrettably my friends all could withstand for one reason or another. So after much deliberation on my part I decided to take my parents along for the ride. Regrettably by then the airplane ticket prices had risen considerably for the desired days. So I held off on purchasing them with the faint hope of them either going down again (which they didn’t) or holding the option open of going by car. Not the preferred way of travelling due to the 12 hours it would take to drive, but still… an option.
Luckily 4 days prior to the start of the holiday a small miracle happened, cheaper tickets appeared. The only problem? They actually were a flight to Paris a day sooner than the hotel stay would begin. But having a brisk look at Paris – which I managed to avoid for the most part in my earlier journeys was something I had in mind anyway…
A few clicks later a seemingly nice and reasonable Hotel was found in Paris. And all the stress about the lack of transportation to Paris started to vanish.
Act II
20.3.2013
Arriving in the afternoon at CDG the plan was to go to Paris by train. A reasonable proposition, until I just couldn’t find anything but single fare tickets at the ticket machines. And the queue line at the service counter looked far too long for comfort.
Considering that it was already 17:00 and there wouldn’t be much use to any long term tickets today anyway we went for the single fare. And after locating our hotel in the Rue Magenta, 2 metro stations from the Gare du Nord, being positively surprised by the layout of the room and dropping the baggage we went for a little walk through the rapidly darkening streets of Paris, down to the Seine, by the Centre Pompidou and back to the hotel.
21.3.2013
Due to google maps I found a bakery, apparently highly regarded and much rewarded: Du Pain et Des Idées. Not bad, but in some ways the finest food might be wasted on me. Still, a Pain o Chocolate et Banane or a L'escargot chocolat pistache you don’t find everywhere.
After checking out and actually buying a daily ticket for the 5 zones Metro/RER that we would later need to get to DRP there was some more walking in Paris to be had. La Défense, Champs Élysées, Eiffel Tower my feet started to hurt quite a bit. A condition, due to a bad choice of shoes, that would not improve for the rest of the trip. Oh well, I suffered through worse at the Expo 2000 in Hannover.
As day turned to night, the street lights started to turn on and a ever so slight drizzle started to come down it was about time to embark on the main attraction of the trip. Back to the RER and off to DRP!
Act III
We took the shuttle bus to the Magic Circus Hotel. As the bus stops at the 4 partner hotels it was a) rather crammed inside and b) fairly difficult to locate when to actually get out. Why is there no indication, aside from looking outside the window at which hotel the bus currently stops?
Due to sheer luck we managed to crawl outside at the Magic Circus and the reception area was fairly empty, so I could actually occupy the time of our receptionist for quite some time. Which was well needed due to me failing to print out the Groupon vouchers and having to come to terms with the French keyboard layout while printing it on the publicly available PC in the lobby.
The room was tidy, but on the negative side, WIFI is fairly expensive and rather limited in terms of data volume allowed… at least when you try to sign up via your PC. As I wanted to follow the Formula 1 race on Sunday I was slightly worried and had fearful thoughts of spending a morning at McDonalds in the Village. Surprisingly enough checking the WIFI via my mobile phone resulted in 9€ for a day and no further limitations. That –while not perfect- would suffice.
Act IV
I then ventured back out to take a look at the Disney Village and the new additions since my last visit – King Ludwig and the Earl of Sandwich. Where I also had my first meal on site in 10 years. A Hawaiian BBQ with a lentil curry soup. I liked the soup, but am less a fan of the sandwich. While not bad, the chicken meat lacked seasoning for my taste. I did like the bread though.
22.3.13
After a breakfast at the hotel with the big surprise of the miniature croissants and pain o chocolat and the lack of dark bread I tried to get on to the shuttle bus. Regrettably it was filled to the brim and several people, me included did not get on it. After a good night’s sleep my feet did not hurt quite as much as yesterday, so I obviously did not wait for the next shuttle but decided to instead walk via the Hotel Santa Fe to the parks where I then proceeded to buy myself an Annual Passport Dream.
When I got my AP after about 20 minutes waiting at the annual passport bureau I went back out to meet with my parents who had brought my DSLR along as I had asked them to do. My plan was to use the first day exclusively for photographing. Supposedly it would be the sunniest day of our vacation. Which would actually hold true until the final day.
Anyway, apparently the senior citizen tickets for 1day/2parks are cheaper than my AP reduced price tickets so that’s what my parents got. We then split up until dinner time. Hakuna Matata! We sampled the chicken with African spices and rice as well as the Hakuna Fries with Chicken Strips. While both were very good I did miss a dip for the chicken strips. The Chocolate-Coconut Tart afterwards was okay as well.
By now it was 17:35 and in my mind the Studios were still open for another hour and a half. So we split up again and I made my way over only to discover that they were closing at 18:00 today. Oh well, that meant a bit of a rush job in terms of photography and looking at the TOT/Toy Story Playland that were new to me. I really liked how the TSP is designed, very charming. That definitely surpassed my expectation.
After closing I went back to catch Disney Dreams midway through I actually had managed to fill the memory card of my camera. Tsk tsk.
To avoid the big rush to the shuttle busses I took a prolonged tour through the Disney Village, disappointed to find the video games arcade next to the sports bar being significantly reduced in size and my two favorite stores (World of Sports and the Western Shop whose name I forgot) of years past gone.
23.3.13
And now I finally started my real holiday. Yesterday due to having my camera and backpack with me around was quite detrimental to feeling the magic. But today, today I was on my own.
Due to me watching the Formula 1 Qualifying and having a late breakfast the shuttle busses actually had enough capacity for me to take one! Woohoo!
The one attraction I wanted to ride all those years – the Tower of Terror was my first destination. Luckily waiting time was a moderate 25 minutes compared to 75 at Crush’s Coaster. Regrettably people are still not able to adhere to politeness and to not smoke in the queue lines. I also noticed that in general people bumping into me from behind is not quite as enjoyable as it might have been in years past. Oh well, the TOT itself however was as good as I expected. So much airtime! Bliss!
Checking the queuing times for Crush’s Coaster I noticed they had dropped down to less than 30 minutes. Well, what a deal! How could I not get in on that? So I rushed over and the queue was moving at fairly even pace until I was about to enter the building when it came to a screeching halt. Crush decided to (take a) break… again. Apparently a breakdown was also the reason why I only was supposed to wait 30 minutes. Oh well… People left, I entered the building –without mood lighting. Crush still not running. After 30 further minutes there were signs of life and I could take a seat. A nice little wild mouse that Crush is. Maybe not worth waiting as long as I did, but definitely a worthwhile coaster.
As I still had some time to spare until I would meet the rest of my small travel group for dinner and the Rock’n Rollercoaster showed only 5 minutes waiting time, I ran towards it, realizing that the stunt show had just finished and 5 minutes would probably not be accurate anymore. That I would have to wait 30 minutes I had not anticipated. Oh well. At least people continued to bump into me and step on my heels - the little pleasures of life.
After that in search for food my parents and me went around Lake Disney and the three surrounding Hotels. We took a small break in the Sequoia Lodge (where to my dismay I noticed that the video game arcade had been converted into a conference room despite signs still showing the way) and decided to head back to the Disney Village and go to King Ludwig.
I forgot to ask whether I would receive a free aperitif for my AP. But the 10% were discounted without a hitch as they were yesterday at the Hakuna Matata. I had the double Ludwig Burger, which in retrospect was probably the best meal I had during my stay as far as the burger is concerned. The fries I felt were sub-par. The Salmon entrée my parents had was also quite enjoyable. And the desserts, oh gooey caramel cake goodness, I do like thee. The flambéed pancakes were okay too, if only there was more of the orange sorbet around.
After dinner we said our good byes after actually talking to our British table neighbors for a bit. Actually only I said good bye as I still had the Magic Kingdom to rediscover. Unlucky me today was the only Saturday it would not close at 22:00 but already at 20:00. Still, that’s enough time to check on Captain EO and catch the last mine train of the day. Two encores included. But old Thunder Mountain, what happened to you? I remember you so much more fun than you were today. Perhaps it was me sitting in the last cart, or rose tinted memories, but there was no air time and some quite rough bumps along the ride. And obviously the high volume of the lift hill and final exit.
At least I relieved one memory by watching the fireworks from BTM.
I again passed some time by wandering through the Disney Village and then too kthe shuttle back home.
24.3.13
Priorities need to be set. As such the Formula 1 GP of Malaysia cut into the time allotted for breakfast significantly. Yet I still managed too much to actually feel hungry come dinner time.
After a quick and yet voluminous breakfast I decided to have a look at the other 3 partner hotels. I can’t feel but be a bit disappointed by their theming. From outside especially the Dream Castle and Magic Circus look almost identical. At least they don’t look quite as cheaply themed on the inside as the Explorer’s Club. But all in all, a bit of a disappointment, even though I should not have expected the same quality of theming as the Disney Hotels.
After that as I was already walking and just missed a bus I decided to walk again and enjoy the Disney Hotels again (and also check about the state of the hotel video game arcades – happy to report, Santa Fe and Cheyenne still have them, Cheyenne actually bigger than I remembered).
I met with my parents in front of the Rainforest Café – the 20% rebate voucher from King Ludwig made that an easy decision.
I had Shiva’s Curry… which was a tad too much for me and also at least after the first few bites a bit boring to be honest. Perhaps I messed up by mixing the rice, the strongly tasting paste on top of it with the curry. But I would have preferred more pineapple and other contrasts. The Chili my father had was nice, as were the Turtle Loni of my mother. Dessert was: Crème Brûlée (served cold without fruits… my mother enjoyed it, I was a bit disappointed), Moelleux au Chocolat – Chocolat cake with liquid center and custard cream which I did enjoy a bit more. And the Gorilla in the Mist Cheesecake that was actually served with cherries inside the cheesecake and met my enthusiasm.
And thus back to the parks I went. And as darkness set the Magic Kingdom got emptier. Much to my enjoyment. Walking on to Star Tours and getting seated without waiting time was a nice experience. Space Mountain Mission 2 was not quite as kind, but still all right. And as this was the first time on Mission 2 for me, I was positively surprised by the new story. Regrettably the music was very low both times I rode.
Buzz Lightyear would have me wait in line, had I not taken out a Fast Pass upon passing it. I find it fairly hard to target, and that the whole attraction had to be stopped twice might also not be quite the way to set a fair high score, still. A nice little attraction, but I’m said that Le Visionarium is gone. And the entrance to the beautifully themed Discoveryland now features the cartoonish Buzz Lightyear. Oh well, could be worse. In between I also had a look at Le Temple du Peril three times, once in the back, once in the middle and once in the first row. I still love the view of Indiana Jones, though when it was Backwards it offered such a great view over the park.
In a fairly empty park I managed to find a central spot right infront of Casey’s Corner to enjoy Disney Dreams, this time without camera. And what a grandiose show. Light, Fire, Water, Video, Fireworks, Music, Story – great. But due to my feet I actually felt it was running a bit long. This time I actually ventured towards the exit quickly and managed to sneak onto the shuttle bus first and rest my feet for the ride back.
Act V
25.3.13
When we went to check out the reception area was brimming with customers. Or perhaps inefficiency. It actually looks like the employees run around quite a bit more than an efficient check in/out system should make them. Anyway, our plan was to use the Disney Express to get our bags shipped to the train station where we would take the TGV to CDG. As apparently the bags depart at 11:00 from the hotel and it was getting perilously close to that time we were getting a bit antsy about actually checking out in time. Luckily I needed not worry. Things worked out fine, and after we dropped our baggage in the waiting room I showed my parents how to walk by foot from the Magic Circus to the Magic Kingdom. My parents decided to join me inside the parks today for the most part. While I took advantage of the sun and the need to take my camera with me and do what I had missed out on the first day – photographing the Studios.
…and riding the Tower of Terror some more. Fast Passes make it easy, especially if you have one parent that is afraid of the TOT. Afterwards we noticed that all table service restaurants in the Magic Kingdom actually required reservation to eat there… was that always the case? Anyway… after buying some Fudge (which I should not do anymore… we went to the Steakhouse of the Disney Village.
Sadly our waitress seemed a bit tired. And my question about my aperitif was answered that I could either get a free aperitif or the 10% reduction. I was a bit surprised by that. I believe I get both, don’t I? Anyway… deciding not to pick a fight we ordered. I had the Kobe Beef Burger rare… and got a nice and well done burger. *sigh* At least that was corrected swiftly to some degree… I wouldn’t say that the second one was actually rare, but more of a medium. But at least it was juicy. Aside from that, I was not terribly impressed by the taste. Judging by his reaction neither was my father by his Cappuccino-style pea soup. The Mi-Cuit fillet of beef marinated in herbs and spices however was good.
Desserts for me ranged in the same range of slight disappointment: The Chocolat fondant ball with mandarin confiture is just difficult to eat. And I guess I’m not a fan of a fairly solid glob of rather sour mandarin marmalade with my chocolate. The NY cheesecake with speculoos biscuit was okay, but I guess my expectation when reading speculoos was a bit off from reality. The Lime and mint tart verrine with meringue flakes was very good. And the sheer amount of different plates we got to see was quite astounding too.
That being done we headed to the train station only to note that our TGV was to be 30 minutes late… great! Even greater that he ran even more late as time passed. So in slight worry about missing our flight after asking at the ticket booth we ran to the already waiting TGV, jumped in and stood in the door room of the first class that was apparently heated by a thousand suns. My goodness. On the bright side nobody came to check our tickets… I wonder if that’s par for the course for the 10 minute ride between Marne La Valee and CDG?
Having said that we need not have sweat our plane as due to snow in Vienna it had been delayed by an hour itself. So as a last deed to my feet I explored the airport before settling in the waiting area for our flight.
Oh and the snow in Vienna? Well, it took a good 10 minutes to clear the car.
As I'm from Austria and am trying to improve my spoken/written English, please feel free to critique my writing. Be it style, expression or orthography.
Act I – Foreword
Act II – Arrival in Paris/Paris
Act III – Arrival in DRP
Act IV – Stay in DRP
Act V – Final day in DRP/Departure
Act I
It has been a long time, 10 years to the day to be exact. A funny coincidence that was not planned and I just noticed when I started my little write up.
Anyway, this little return to the place of many joyous holidays of my teenager years came about due to Groupon offering stays at the Magic Circus Hotel for 100€ per night at the end of last year. An offer I could not refuse.
Regrettably my friends all could withstand for one reason or another. So after much deliberation on my part I decided to take my parents along for the ride. Regrettably by then the airplane ticket prices had risen considerably for the desired days. So I held off on purchasing them with the faint hope of them either going down again (which they didn’t) or holding the option open of going by car. Not the preferred way of travelling due to the 12 hours it would take to drive, but still… an option.
Luckily 4 days prior to the start of the holiday a small miracle happened, cheaper tickets appeared. The only problem? They actually were a flight to Paris a day sooner than the hotel stay would begin. But having a brisk look at Paris – which I managed to avoid for the most part in my earlier journeys was something I had in mind anyway…
A few clicks later a seemingly nice and reasonable Hotel was found in Paris. And all the stress about the lack of transportation to Paris started to vanish.
Act II
20.3.2013
Arriving in the afternoon at CDG the plan was to go to Paris by train. A reasonable proposition, until I just couldn’t find anything but single fare tickets at the ticket machines. And the queue line at the service counter looked far too long for comfort.
Considering that it was already 17:00 and there wouldn’t be much use to any long term tickets today anyway we went for the single fare. And after locating our hotel in the Rue Magenta, 2 metro stations from the Gare du Nord, being positively surprised by the layout of the room and dropping the baggage we went for a little walk through the rapidly darkening streets of Paris, down to the Seine, by the Centre Pompidou and back to the hotel.
21.3.2013
Due to google maps I found a bakery, apparently highly regarded and much rewarded: Du Pain et Des Idées. Not bad, but in some ways the finest food might be wasted on me. Still, a Pain o Chocolate et Banane or a L'escargot chocolat pistache you don’t find everywhere.
After checking out and actually buying a daily ticket for the 5 zones Metro/RER that we would later need to get to DRP there was some more walking in Paris to be had. La Défense, Champs Élysées, Eiffel Tower my feet started to hurt quite a bit. A condition, due to a bad choice of shoes, that would not improve for the rest of the trip. Oh well, I suffered through worse at the Expo 2000 in Hannover.
As day turned to night, the street lights started to turn on and a ever so slight drizzle started to come down it was about time to embark on the main attraction of the trip. Back to the RER and off to DRP!
Act III
We took the shuttle bus to the Magic Circus Hotel. As the bus stops at the 4 partner hotels it was a) rather crammed inside and b) fairly difficult to locate when to actually get out. Why is there no indication, aside from looking outside the window at which hotel the bus currently stops?
Due to sheer luck we managed to crawl outside at the Magic Circus and the reception area was fairly empty, so I could actually occupy the time of our receptionist for quite some time. Which was well needed due to me failing to print out the Groupon vouchers and having to come to terms with the French keyboard layout while printing it on the publicly available PC in the lobby.
The room was tidy, but on the negative side, WIFI is fairly expensive and rather limited in terms of data volume allowed… at least when you try to sign up via your PC. As I wanted to follow the Formula 1 race on Sunday I was slightly worried and had fearful thoughts of spending a morning at McDonalds in the Village. Surprisingly enough checking the WIFI via my mobile phone resulted in 9€ for a day and no further limitations. That –while not perfect- would suffice.
Act IV
I then ventured back out to take a look at the Disney Village and the new additions since my last visit – King Ludwig and the Earl of Sandwich. Where I also had my first meal on site in 10 years. A Hawaiian BBQ with a lentil curry soup. I liked the soup, but am less a fan of the sandwich. While not bad, the chicken meat lacked seasoning for my taste. I did like the bread though.
22.3.13
After a breakfast at the hotel with the big surprise of the miniature croissants and pain o chocolat and the lack of dark bread I tried to get on to the shuttle bus. Regrettably it was filled to the brim and several people, me included did not get on it. After a good night’s sleep my feet did not hurt quite as much as yesterday, so I obviously did not wait for the next shuttle but decided to instead walk via the Hotel Santa Fe to the parks where I then proceeded to buy myself an Annual Passport Dream.
When I got my AP after about 20 minutes waiting at the annual passport bureau I went back out to meet with my parents who had brought my DSLR along as I had asked them to do. My plan was to use the first day exclusively for photographing. Supposedly it would be the sunniest day of our vacation. Which would actually hold true until the final day.
Anyway, apparently the senior citizen tickets for 1day/2parks are cheaper than my AP reduced price tickets so that’s what my parents got. We then split up until dinner time. Hakuna Matata! We sampled the chicken with African spices and rice as well as the Hakuna Fries with Chicken Strips. While both were very good I did miss a dip for the chicken strips. The Chocolate-Coconut Tart afterwards was okay as well.
By now it was 17:35 and in my mind the Studios were still open for another hour and a half. So we split up again and I made my way over only to discover that they were closing at 18:00 today.
Oh well, that meant a bit of a rush job in terms of photography and looking at the TOT/Toy Story Playland that were new to me. I really liked how the TSP is designed, very charming. That definitely surpassed my expectation. After closing I went back to catch Disney Dreams midway through I actually had managed to fill the memory card of my camera. Tsk tsk.
To avoid the big rush to the shuttle busses I took a prolonged tour through the Disney Village, disappointed to find the video games arcade next to the sports bar being significantly reduced in size and my two favorite stores (World of Sports and the Western Shop whose name I forgot) of years past gone.
23.3.13
And now I finally started my real holiday. Yesterday due to having my camera and backpack with me around was quite detrimental to feeling the magic. But today, today I was on my own.
Due to me watching the Formula 1 Qualifying and having a late breakfast the shuttle busses actually had enough capacity for me to take one! Woohoo!
The one attraction I wanted to ride all those years – the Tower of Terror was my first destination. Luckily waiting time was a moderate 25 minutes compared to 75 at Crush’s Coaster. Regrettably people are still not able to adhere to politeness and to not smoke in the queue lines. I also noticed that in general people bumping into me from behind is not quite as enjoyable as it might have been in years past. Oh well, the TOT itself however was as good as I expected. So much airtime! Bliss!
Checking the queuing times for Crush’s Coaster I noticed they had dropped down to less than 30 minutes. Well, what a deal! How could I not get in on that? So I rushed over and the queue was moving at fairly even pace until I was about to enter the building when it came to a screeching halt. Crush decided to (take a) break… again. Apparently a breakdown was also the reason why I only was supposed to wait 30 minutes. Oh well… People left, I entered the building –without mood lighting. Crush still not running. After 30 further minutes there were signs of life and I could take a seat. A nice little wild mouse that Crush is. Maybe not worth waiting as long as I did, but definitely a worthwhile coaster.
As I still had some time to spare until I would meet the rest of my small travel group for dinner and the Rock’n Rollercoaster showed only 5 minutes waiting time, I ran towards it, realizing that the stunt show had just finished and 5 minutes would probably not be accurate anymore. That I would have to wait 30 minutes I had not anticipated. Oh well. At least people continued to bump into me and step on my heels - the little pleasures of life.
After that in search for food my parents and me went around Lake Disney and the three surrounding Hotels. We took a small break in the Sequoia Lodge (where to my dismay I noticed that the video game arcade had been converted into a conference room despite signs still showing the way) and decided to head back to the Disney Village and go to King Ludwig.
I forgot to ask whether I would receive a free aperitif for my AP. But the 10% were discounted without a hitch as they were yesterday at the Hakuna Matata. I had the double Ludwig Burger, which in retrospect was probably the best meal I had during my stay as far as the burger is concerned. The fries I felt were sub-par. The Salmon entrée my parents had was also quite enjoyable. And the desserts, oh gooey caramel cake goodness, I do like thee. The flambéed pancakes were okay too, if only there was more of the orange sorbet around.
After dinner we said our good byes after actually talking to our British table neighbors for a bit. Actually only I said good bye as I still had the Magic Kingdom to rediscover. Unlucky me today was the only Saturday it would not close at 22:00 but already at 20:00. Still, that’s enough time to check on Captain EO and catch the last mine train of the day. Two encores included. But old Thunder Mountain, what happened to you? I remember you so much more fun than you were today. Perhaps it was me sitting in the last cart, or rose tinted memories, but there was no air time and some quite rough bumps along the ride. And obviously the high volume of the lift hill and final exit.
At least I relieved one memory by watching the fireworks from BTM.
I again passed some time by wandering through the Disney Village and then too kthe shuttle back home.
24.3.13
Priorities need to be set. As such the Formula 1 GP of Malaysia cut into the time allotted for breakfast significantly. Yet I still managed too much to actually feel hungry come dinner time
.After a quick and yet voluminous breakfast I decided to have a look at the other 3 partner hotels. I can’t feel but be a bit disappointed by their theming. From outside especially the Dream Castle and Magic Circus look almost identical. At least they don’t look quite as cheaply themed on the inside as the Explorer’s Club. But all in all, a bit of a disappointment, even though I should not have expected the same quality of theming as the Disney Hotels.
After that as I was already walking and just missed a bus I decided to walk again and enjoy the Disney Hotels again (and also check about the state of the hotel video game arcades – happy to report, Santa Fe and Cheyenne still have them, Cheyenne actually bigger than I remembered).
I met with my parents in front of the Rainforest Café – the 20% rebate voucher from King Ludwig made that an easy decision
.I had Shiva’s Curry… which was a tad too much for me and also at least after the first few bites a bit boring to be honest. Perhaps I messed up by mixing the rice, the strongly tasting paste on top of it with the curry. But I would have preferred more pineapple and other contrasts. The Chili my father had was nice, as were the Turtle Loni of my mother. Dessert was: Crème Brûlée (served cold without fruits… my mother enjoyed it, I was a bit disappointed), Moelleux au Chocolat – Chocolat cake with liquid center and custard cream which I did enjoy a bit more. And the Gorilla in the Mist Cheesecake that was actually served with cherries inside the cheesecake and met my enthusiasm.
And thus back to the parks I went. And as darkness set the Magic Kingdom got emptier. Much to my enjoyment. Walking on to Star Tours and getting seated without waiting time was a nice experience. Space Mountain Mission 2 was not quite as kind, but still all right. And as this was the first time on Mission 2 for me, I was positively surprised by the new story. Regrettably the music was very low both times I rode.
Buzz Lightyear would have me wait in line, had I not taken out a Fast Pass upon passing it. I find it fairly hard to target, and that the whole attraction had to be stopped twice might also not be quite the way to set a fair high score, still. A nice little attraction, but I’m said that Le Visionarium is gone. And the entrance to the beautifully themed Discoveryland now features the cartoonish Buzz Lightyear. Oh well, could be worse. In between I also had a look at Le Temple du Peril three times, once in the back, once in the middle and once in the first row. I still love the view of Indiana Jones, though when it was Backwards it offered such a great view over the park.
In a fairly empty park I managed to find a central spot right infront of Casey’s Corner to enjoy Disney Dreams, this time without camera. And what a grandiose show. Light, Fire, Water, Video, Fireworks, Music, Story – great. But due to my feet I actually felt it was running a bit long. This time I actually ventured towards the exit quickly and managed to sneak onto the shuttle bus first and rest my feet for the ride back.
Act V
25.3.13
When we went to check out the reception area was brimming with customers. Or perhaps inefficiency. It actually looks like the employees run around quite a bit more than an efficient check in/out system should make them. Anyway, our plan was to use the Disney Express to get our bags shipped to the train station where we would take the TGV to CDG. As apparently the bags depart at 11:00 from the hotel and it was getting perilously close to that time we were getting a bit antsy about actually checking out in time. Luckily I needed not worry. Things worked out fine, and after we dropped our baggage in the waiting room I showed my parents how to walk by foot from the Magic Circus to the Magic Kingdom. My parents decided to join me inside the parks today for the most part. While I took advantage of the sun and the need to take my camera with me and do what I had missed out on the first day – photographing the Studios.
…and riding the Tower of Terror some more. Fast Passes make it easy, especially if you have one parent that is afraid of the TOT.
Afterwards we noticed that all table service restaurants in the Magic Kingdom actually required reservation to eat there… was that always the case? Anyway… after buying some Fudge (which I should not do anymore… we went to the Steakhouse of the Disney Village.Sadly our waitress seemed a bit tired. And my question about my aperitif was answered that I could either get a free aperitif or the 10% reduction. I was a bit surprised by that. I believe I get both, don’t I? Anyway… deciding not to pick a fight we ordered. I had the Kobe Beef Burger rare… and got a nice and well done burger
. *sigh* At least that was corrected swiftly to some degree… I wouldn’t say that the second one was actually rare, but more of a medium. But at least it was juicy. Aside from that, I was not terribly impressed by the taste. Judging by his reaction neither was my father by his Cappuccino-style pea soup. The Mi-Cuit fillet of beef marinated in herbs and spices however was good. Desserts for me ranged in the same range of slight disappointment: The Chocolat fondant ball with mandarin confiture is just difficult to eat. And I guess I’m not a fan of a fairly solid glob of rather sour mandarin marmalade with my chocolate. The NY cheesecake with speculoos biscuit was okay, but I guess my expectation when reading speculoos was a bit off from reality. The Lime and mint tart verrine with meringue flakes was very good. And the sheer amount of different plates we got to see was quite astounding too.
That being done we headed to the train station only to note that our TGV was to be 30 minutes late… great! Even greater that he ran even more late as time passed. So in slight worry about missing our flight after asking at the ticket booth we ran to the already waiting TGV, jumped in and stood in the door room of the first class that was apparently heated by a thousand suns. My goodness. On the bright side nobody came to check our tickets… I wonder if that’s par for the course for the 10 minute ride between Marne La Valee and CDG?
Having said that we need not have sweat our plane as due to snow in Vienna it had been delayed by an hour itself. So as a last deed to my feet I explored the airport before settling in the waiting area for our flight.
Oh and the snow in Vienna? Well, it took a good 10 minutes to clear the car.
I want to know why they put two of the best Parks in Ohio. I'd love to go to them, but I have absolutely no reason to go anywhere near Ohio for any other reason. I can't justify the trip when I could go to California or Florida or somewhere nice with other awesome things to do.
Not to mention going to Ohio would be a roadtrip from hell from where I am.
It just seems like an odd location. There's nothing really to go see in Ohio and it's cold for half the year. You'd think they would have put it somewhere else where it could be enjoyed longer and by more people. And would attract more people by putting it near places people actually wanted to go on vacation.
Not to mention going to Ohio would be a roadtrip from hell from where I am.
It just seems like an odd location. There's nothing really to go see in Ohio and it's cold for half the year. You'd think they would have put it somewhere else where it could be enjoyed longer and by more people. And would attract more people by putting it near places people actually wanted to go on vacation.
Please tell me they're going to sync it so as one goes over the top, another is matched up with it along the loop.
^ If SFMM is anything like over Georgia, then they'll still be loading the second train when the first rolls back into the station. :/
Six Flag over Georgia has been dropping the ball this year, so far. Broken rides everywhere. Dare Devil Dive has a 4 hour queue time. Ninja's out of commission until mid May... This on top of the park's lack of non-coaster rides kind of makes for a frustrating experience.
Also, didn't think this deserved a thread since gaf's not really big on the whole theme park simulator thing. Theme Park Studio is on kickstarter now. It's by Pantera, who made Hyper Rails and Roller Coaster Rampage. Basically most of the RollerCoaster Tycoon and NoLimits, etc. community is waiting for it. http://kck.st/YgP4Lq
Six Flag over Georgia has been dropping the ball this year, so far. Broken rides everywhere. Dare Devil Dive has a 4 hour queue time. Ninja's out of commission until mid May... This on top of the park's lack of non-coaster rides kind of makes for a frustrating experience.
Also, didn't think this deserved a thread since gaf's not really big on the whole theme park simulator thing. Theme Park Studio is on kickstarter now. It's by Pantera, who made Hyper Rails and Roller Coaster Rampage. Basically most of the RollerCoaster Tycoon and NoLimits, etc. community is waiting for it. http://kck.st/YgP4Lq
Hopefully you guys can help me out here. I'm thinking about taking my wife to Universal Studios Florida, mainly Wizarding World, and while in Florida I would like to go to Disneyworld. How many days do you think would be suitable for both parks? What have you found to be the best times to go?
BertramCooper
Banned
[raises middle finger]
Regardless of your thoughts of Ohio, it's actually a great place for a park because it's a day's drive (or less) for a huge percentage of the U.S. population.
Goldrusher
Member
Careful, the new Harry Potter area is part of Universal's Islands of Adventure, not the Studios park.
You see, Universal has two parks in Orlando... Disney has 4!
Do know that there's a second Harry Potter area under construction, opening next year! The current one is themed to Hogsmeade, the new one will be themed to London. With a huge Gringotts-themed dark ride / coaster.
And both will be connected with an actual Hogwarts Express, a ride itself, as the trains won't have any windows... instead there will be LCD screens and other nifty technology.
Also opening next year is a "mini Big Thunder Mountain" at Disney's Magic Kingdom, themed to the diamond mine of the Seven Dwarfs, with swinging carts.
If you want to hit all six parks, I'd go for about a week. Each park can be a day's worth of stuff, with Islands of Adventure and Magic Kingdom being the most time consuming. Though, you could fit two of the smaller parks in a day depending on how much you want to do. Fall months seem to be a decent bet for crowds, as long as you avoid holidays like labor day and thanksgiving.
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
Planning on going to Canada's Wonderland after I haven't been there since the Behemoth was put up. Not sure what to expect.
bucknuticus
Member
Sucks to be yoooooou. Salty. Ohio gets a bad rep, it's not terrible like its portrayed. We have 7 professional teams, and one of the best college sports teams, so there's more to do besides the parks. Not to mention done great nature parks and historical sites, and 3 distinctly different large cities.
Goldrusher
Member
Mystic Manor has opened at Hong Kong Disneyland.
on-ride video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=kEApcS_kVqM
It's basically their Haunted Mansion, but it's original in every way.
It's also not scary at all.
The house is owned by an explorer called Lord Henry Mystic.
You are his guest, about to get a tour of his very own museum, which is full of collectibles, curiosities and artifacts.
However, his pet monkey Albert opens a magical music box... and the entire mansion comes alive.
Amazing blend of animatronics, projections and screens. Music by Danny Elfman.
video & pic: disneyandmore.blogspot.com
on-ride video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=kEApcS_kVqM
It's basically their Haunted Mansion, but it's original in every way.
It's also not scary at all.
The house is owned by an explorer called Lord Henry Mystic.
You are his guest, about to get a tour of his very own museum, which is full of collectibles, curiosities and artifacts.
However, his pet monkey Albert opens a magical music box... and the entire mansion comes alive.
Amazing blend of animatronics, projections and screens. Music by Danny Elfman.
video & pic: disneyandmore.blogspot.com
Exterminieren
Banned
Mother of God. That's some stunning implementation of projection.
It also makes me annoyed about how shonky the animatronics in Splash Mountain at Disney World look nowadays. Turn some Imagineer magic on that, for goodness sake. They've looked absolutely terrible for years now.
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