OriginalPoe
Banned
Shhh games aren't about having fun pick based on the meta you doofus /s
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
*They pick a Widow or Hanzo*
- Thread starter TheSpoiler
- Start date
Shhh games aren't about having fun pick based on the meta you doofus /s
The problem isn't the pick more less the fact they aren't willing to be flexible and match the team comp or switch when they are getting outclassed or just completely cold.
People have a tendency to not admit when they are doing bad. I had to work on it myself during the early days.
People have a tendency to not admit when they are doing bad. I had to work on it myself during the early days.
ItsTheNew
I believe any game made before 1997 is "essentially cave man art."
kinda selfish and toxic attitude for a team game if you aren't holding your end of the bargain in competitive or quickplay IMO. If you are awful at a certain character, at least learn how to play their role in arcade OR switch characters if you are singlehandedly losing the game for your team. The game lets you swap on the fly.
Also it's no fun getting stomped to the curb as two of your team mates are just dicking around with snipers.
ZeroGravity
Member
Refusing to switch off a character when you're being countered, you know you're being countered, and aren't contributing because you're being countered, is very much part of what constitutes throwing.
Newtype-001
Member
I dont see it much anymore where i am on the ladder because characters with pick potential can be super high value. People mostly ask to switch if they're being useless or the team comp is bad like 1 heal or 1 tank or no proper sustain dps.
I just let it play out and ask for switches if things arnt working i mean most of the time i have had an Attack Symmetra on koth ive won 3-0
Qp is guaranteed to have atleast 1 of each on any map anyway.
I just let it play out and ask for switches if things arnt working i mean most of the time i have had an Attack Symmetra on koth ive won 3-0
Qp is guaranteed to have atleast 1 of each on any map anyway.
broncobuster
Banned
I don't mind it much because it's not exclusive to those players, but so many times I see them not playing the objective. We need to get on the point and they don't move from their sniper spot.
capylikesgames
Banned
A good Battle Medic still prioritizes healing their teammates. That said, you'd be surprised how often I've saved my patients by running at our opposition with an Ubersaw. Really catches players off guard (or would, it's been years since I played).
I don't really go competitive, so it's not a big deal to me. I do kind of roll my eyes when people refuse to build a good dynamic in OW to play their favorite characters, and we end up losing, but it's something I keep to myself. As long as they're having fun, it's none of my business.
Thewonandonly
Junior Member
Side not but I've been trying to make this game a better place. If someone does a boss ass play I will send them a message saying as such.
Like just barely I had this fucking amazing genji on the other team. I'm talking about he is killing 3 of us every ult and he is getting his ult like every minute. Completely anhilating me as a healer like there is nothing I can do against this guy.
We end up winning somehow but I send him a message saying "hey man you are one of the greatest genji's I have seen good game".
#makeoverwatchgreatagain
Like just barely I had this fucking amazing genji on the other team. I'm talking about he is killing 3 of us every ult and he is getting his ult like every minute. Completely anhilating me as a healer like there is nothing I can do against this guy.
We end up winning somehow but I send him a message saying "hey man you are one of the greatest genji's I have seen good game".
#makeoverwatchgreatagain
it's fine if they're good. in quickplay no use in complaining imo cause that's where people go to practice. if it's not working out in comp, they should probably switch, but yelling at them or saying they suck is probably not going to get results. honestly, anecdotally, i think the community's been getting better. still some jerks, but people are just more constructive and communicative in general.
icecold1983
Member
Thewonandonly
Junior Member
I will have to agree. I played sombra for a while trying to get the hang of her and at the beginning I ducking sucked. Went from 3500 to 2200, but slowly I climbed my way back up to 2800 now. But I realized that sometimes I have a off time with sombra so I will switch. Didn't get as much hate messages as you would think. Use to get so many back around season 2 and 3 even when I was going beast mode as rheinhard.
ItsTheNew
I believe any game made before 1997 is "essentially cave man art."
Sometimes, people don't realize their terrible play is ruining the fun for their team and a message letting them know that works wonders. People who refuse to work with their team is like me joining a pick up game of basketball at the park and telling the team "I'm going to play with my eyes closed and kick the ball. Got a problem? Join the NBA". It's just stupid and selfish.
Tyrant Rave
Banned
Widowmaker is my favorite character
Tribes of Trusty
Member
Hey I have nothing against Widowmaker or Hanzo players, as long as they do the job and not get killed again and again.
What enrages me are players who take their pick like Widowmaker or Hanzo, WON'T ABSOLUTELY TRY ANOTHER CHARACTER in order to try to win the game, or spam their request for a Reinhardt or a healer for the teammates to pick (like you're going to get behind that shield or be easily accessible from your vantage points, you prick).
/rant.
What enrages me are players who take their pick like Widowmaker or Hanzo, WON'T ABSOLUTELY TRY ANOTHER CHARACTER in order to try to win the game, or spam their request for a Reinhardt or a healer for the teammates to pick (like you're going to get behind that shield or be easily accessible from your vantage points, you prick).
/rant.
Spudnik Sweetheart
Member
I used to always end up healer since no one wanted to be them. Then for a while no one wanted to be tank so I was the tank. Nowadays I just pick whichever hero I want because playing the way I was resulted in me having no fun. I always liked the look of the defense and attack heroes but never really got much of a shot to try them. If people complain I'll usually switch, but eh, until then I wanna enjoy myself.
I don't play competitive.
I don't play competitive.
FieryBalrog
Member
I like playing Widow in Quick Play. No one has ever really cared in Quick Play.
TheSkullPrince
Member
I haven't played Overwatch in months so maybe I can't really speak to this, but if you bought the game, and pay for Xbox Live or PS+, shouldn't you have the right to pick whatever character you want?
agreed. It should be retooled into an ability that hits multiple enemies for a little damage instead of being a tool to oneshot squishies by shooting on the ground in front of them. Hanzo's main thing is oneshotting anyway.
Rickenslacker
Banned
No, they can be extremely good in the right hands -- but there's a major deficit in the number of people that are good at them versus the number that pick them. It's just a lot easier to be more effective with less effort with the more standard character picks.
I give them the benefit early but most snipers are garbage at they're role. If there are two snipers off the jump I pick the third and hope someone dodges or they switch then I switch so we only have one sniper. If that doesn't work or my team sucks I totally ice wall troll with Mei, especially in the spawn room to be a real dick.
Like everyone in the thread is saying we all paid our money and should be able to play and have fun like we want. It's more fun to turn the tables than let poor sniper or team play frustrate you. Also I'm taking about competitive only and I never use a mic. Lol ;P
Like everyone in the thread is saying we all paid our money and should be able to play and have fun like we want. It's more fun to turn the tables than let poor sniper or team play frustrate you. Also I'm taking about competitive only and I never use a mic. Lol ;P
SarcasticRedRover
Member
Typical "Person awful at sniping thinks they can snipe" issue that you can find in a lot of shooters.
Its just noticeable in a class/character based game because they're so recognizeable.
MindGamingMantis
Banned
Widow + Hanzo = won't bother trying. I'll pick McCree and look at the gun animations.
I DESPISE scatter arrow with a passion and it's literally the only reason I dislike Hanzo. Feels like a cheap shot to most heroes and he has the added bonus of knowing where you'll be if he uses his sonic arrow.
Besides that, I don't see the issue if the Hanzo/Widow are good, problem is most Snipers NEVER switch when things are not working and it's REALLY difficult to notice your team needs a different composition when you're staying alive as a sniper and getting a few picks here and there but ultimately (in most cases) aren't doing enough to change the pace of a match.
I don't mind someone playing Widow OR Hanzo. My only problem is when your team decides it needs two snipers. And it's almost always Widow and Hanzo.
Then you just fall under the rubric of being a bad team player and not playing what the team needs, because the team never needs two snipers.
I don't ever say anything, though. If I find a team with two snipers, I just change to whoever I feel like playing, since the game is already half lost.
Then you just fall under the rubric of being a bad team player and not playing what the team needs, because the team never needs two snipers.
I don't ever say anything, though. If I find a team with two snipers, I just change to whoever I feel like playing, since the game is already half lost.
icecold1983
Member
they suck. take a hanzo/widow and a soldier of the same skill level and the soldier player will be far more effective while having no hard counters like hanzo/widow do
twdnewh_k
Member
It is because the skill required to make a good impact with hanzo, genji and widow is high.
Although in some cases they turn out to be great and have a strong positive impact on their team; from my experience (below masters ofc) is that they are often very risky picks.
What's worse, is that they will go for that pick regardless of what the team needs\picks, and will refuse to change regardless of how bad they are playing.
Although in some cases they turn out to be great and have a strong positive impact on their team; from my experience (below masters ofc) is that they are often very risky picks.
What's worse, is that they will go for that pick regardless of what the team needs\picks, and will refuse to change regardless of how bad they are playing.
I won't ever ask anyone to switch as they might actually be good. One comp match I played there was an enemy WM that was carrying the team for 2 straight rounds that my team adjusted to counter the WM and made them change to Tracer. My team came back 3-2 and at the end of the match the enemy team was blaming the loss on the WM for throwing but from our pov the WM was the one carrying that team. I'm sure that enemy team was tilted from the start of the match once WM was picked but didn't realize they were being carried and should have supported that player. Although I can totally understand as there are so many bad snipers.
I had some WM/Hanzo say in chat that if it's not working they will switch, sometimes that can ease the tilt but there are just too many toxics in comp that it usually won't help.
I had some WM/Hanzo say in chat that if it's not working they will switch, sometimes that can ease the tilt but there are just too many toxics in comp that it usually won't help.
SgtWiggles
Member
In Quick Play, I don't give a shit. If I were in Platinum or Lower ranked, I wouldn't give a shit. But in Master+ rank matches you should know god damned better not to pick them unless you are getting headshots and kills right out of the gate and constantly.
I'd be lying if I didn't say 90%+ of the Widow/Hanzo "Mains" i see are utter trash, and could do 5x better even if they played terribly as another more staple/meta hero. Last night I had a Hanzo "main" in a 3600 rank match who cost us the match because he literally couldnt kill anything without a scatter arrow, I watched him behind an enemy Ana who didn't even know he was there while he missed about 4x shots in a row that I could have pulled off drunk.
The only players I don't have a problem with picking Widow/Hanzo are Grandmaster or Top 500. They are the only ones I consistently see proving themselves worthy and actually contributing to the team. I'm tired of losing matches because we have a janky composition because someone had to be a dipshit and refuses to play a 2nd Tank or Healer or a competent DPS, and everytime its always a Hanzo/Widow/Symmetra who usually starts the match with "Don't worry guys, I can handle this"
I'd be lying if I didn't say 90%+ of the Widow/Hanzo "Mains" i see are utter trash, and could do 5x better even if they played terribly as another more staple/meta hero. Last night I had a Hanzo "main" in a 3600 rank match who cost us the match because he literally couldnt kill anything without a scatter arrow, I watched him behind an enemy Ana who didn't even know he was there while he missed about 4x shots in a row that I could have pulled off drunk.
The only players I don't have a problem with picking Widow/Hanzo are Grandmaster or Top 500. They are the only ones I consistently see proving themselves worthy and actually contributing to the team. I'm tired of losing matches because we have a janky composition because someone had to be a dipshit and refuses to play a 2nd Tank or Healer or a competent DPS, and everytime its always a Hanzo/Widow/Symmetra who usually starts the match with "Don't worry guys, I can handle this"
BreezyLimbo
Banned
The most fun I've had is when me and my friend go Hanzo/Widowmaker. It's a great stress reliever.(We're both decent at sniping and controlling points, so it becomes a contest between us).
...Man overwatch is awesome, I should play it more.
...Man overwatch is awesome, I should play it more.
Jaguar Victory
Member
I never understood this because Hanzo is good on attack, especially paired with a Zarya ult.
People have their ire directed at the wrong places, the people who should side eyed is people play mcree.
I've lost so many games because of shit mcree's , i've BEEN a shit mcree. I would argue he is absolutely the worst DPS character, unless you are specifically good at him and have very great aim.
When someone picks Mcree I have to internally account for the a higher shit DPS variable than with any other character.
Mcree goes super under the radar as lowkey worst newbie dps.
I've lost so many games because of shit mcree's , i've BEEN a shit mcree. I would argue he is absolutely the worst DPS character, unless you are specifically good at him and have very great aim.
When someone picks Mcree I have to internally account for the a higher shit DPS variable than with any other character.
Mcree goes super under the radar as lowkey worst newbie dps.
You have to understand in a team base game means you need to understand team composition and being flexible. Although Hanzo is good with Zarya but there are better heroes to do a dps job like Soldier and McCree both who are hitscan, why sacrifice a dps slot for a Hanzo unless you are 'seagull'. Hanzo requires a very high skill level to be effective and alot of people failed at it.
Especially now it's harder to build up Ults, ability matters more than ults.
SgtWiggles
Member
Thats my biggest annoyance, like period in the game with any player/most of the losses I end up with.
If I'm doing badly with a character I switch, If I'm getting hard countered I switch, If we need a hard counter I switch, If someone asks me to switch I'll switch. I can play most heroes well and I'll swap to whatever the hell the team needs to win. Too many people take personal offense to being told their choice isn't working, I see this most often especially with Offense characters (Lately seems to be Sombra's for some reason for me)
twdnewh_k
Member
That mentality is exactly the problem. Im assuming of course you mean in competitive.
The worst is playing with widow mains on control maps, I've played games with widow mains that were countered so hard they probably spent more time dead than alive.
I just don't understand how you can continue to go out, get dived by 3 people, and die immediately over and over and not switch (this is at grandmaster btw)
I just don't understand how you can continue to go out, get dived by 3 people, and die immediately over and over and not switch (this is at grandmaster btw)
SgtWiggles
Member
Maybe at low level. At high ranked outside of Widow/Hanzo/Symmetra, I feel like Sombra has been climbing up the ladder for me. When she isn't played well she is totally worthless, and I have seen one too many matches where our Sombra doesn't even hack Health Packs or is constantly dying in the backlines.
I have seen people using McCree to counter Tracers and Mei's and it works really well. Though I still think his Ultimate is one of the worst ingame (Other than Widows and Junkrats)
Adam_Roman
Member
The only time I get pissed is if we have a general team comp established already (2 DPS, 2 healers, 1 tank) and they pick a sniper, especially on attack. For the most part I don't run into sub-lvl100 people anymore, so the excuse of not understanding team composition doesn't fly at that point. It gets incredibly infuriating for me as a support main, because 9 times out of 10 they're also the people that lambaste the Mercy for not saving them from a Genji when they're practically all the way back at spawn while I'm on point with everyone else.
I feel like limiting it to just Widow/Hanzo is missing the point of why I get angry though, because for me it's more about players who are too stubborn with their situational mains to be flexible for the sake of team composition. Genji/Reaper/Torbjorn mains are just as bad about it from my experience. Bastion mains used to be, but he's pretty powerful now so a Bastion's less likely to cause a loss if they're actually trying.
I'm someone who mains Mercy, Lucio, Roadhog, Mei, and Reaper, and I'm learning Orisa. I feel like there's absolutely no reason to say "I'm only gonna play this character and this character only", especially if you're gonna play competitive.
I feel like limiting it to just Widow/Hanzo is missing the point of why I get angry though, because for me it's more about players who are too stubborn with their situational mains to be flexible for the sake of team composition. Genji/Reaper/Torbjorn mains are just as bad about it from my experience. Bastion mains used to be, but he's pretty powerful now so a Bastion's less likely to cause a loss if they're actually trying.
I'm someone who mains Mercy, Lucio, Roadhog, Mei, and Reaper, and I'm learning Orisa. I feel like there's absolutely no reason to say "I'm only gonna play this character and this character only", especially if you're gonna play competitive.
Majima Everywhere System
Member
Doesn't seem very inclusive of the player base, at least to me it doesn't. Perhaps it's time for some self reflection.
Hanzo mains have been around since Day 1. But there has been a huge uptick in Widows over the last few months. Every. single. match. I don't get it.
My other new favorite annoyance is the billy-badass Symmetra. The ones who go agro. I loathe seeing Symmetra's smug face up in my grill nearly as much as I hate seeing Mei's (though I can run as a billy-badass Symmetra; she has a way of pulling the team).
But with that all said, I don't generally care who people play as. I main supports so it's all good.
My other new favorite annoyance is the billy-badass Symmetra. The ones who go agro. I loathe seeing Symmetra's smug face up in my grill nearly as much as I hate seeing Mei's (though I can run as a billy-badass Symmetra; she has a way of pulling the team).
But with that all said, I don't generally care who people play as. I main supports so it's all good.
Playing your favorite character to have fun is fine and all, but when you join competetive I expect some game sense.
Game sense means recognizing that 3 Snipers leave your frontline weak.
Game sense means recognizing that the enemy team is stacked with counters to your favorite character (just as bad with Pharahs that don't notice the soldier-mccree-zen comp on the other side).
Game sense means seeing when you need picks and when you need general pushing power.
Game sense means admitting you're not doing so well and switching.
Yet a lot of mains (especially sniper-mains) lack this ability. On my elo anyway.
Sure you can play League of Legends as a team of all attack damage carries.
You can also play an all scout team on Battlefield.
Or stack 4 Whitemages in Final Fantasy I.
Dont expect to do well, though.
Game sense means recognizing that 3 Snipers leave your frontline weak.
Game sense means recognizing that the enemy team is stacked with counters to your favorite character (just as bad with Pharahs that don't notice the soldier-mccree-zen comp on the other side).
Game sense means seeing when you need picks and when you need general pushing power.
Game sense means admitting you're not doing so well and switching.
Yet a lot of mains (especially sniper-mains) lack this ability. On my elo anyway.
Sure you can play League of Legends as a team of all attack damage carries.
You can also play an all scout team on Battlefield.
Or stack 4 Whitemages in Final Fantasy I.
Dont expect to do well, though.
Earthpainting
Member
They're the two sniper classes. They're fine in the right hands and the right situations, but that's not really where the animosity comes from. The main thing about Widow and Hanzo is that they're usually picked regardless of your team composition, or the opposing side's. This, coupled with the fact that snipers require positioning that makes them stray from the pack, gives off the impression that these people are playing solo in a team-based game.
On Defence, snipers often have their eyes fixed on the same choke points that the rest of the team are defending. This sort of makes sense, but it does often create a dynamic where the sniper is defending against people who break past the choke point (because they're tucked away off to the side so they can't be picked off themselves), while the rest of the team has to defend incoming attacks on the choke point with one fewer team member than the assaulting team. It's a good strat against characters that can zip through choke points, but in a tank-heavy meta, it really does boil down to a 5 v 6 and an inevitable 1 v (whatever number survived the previous encounter).
Overwatch also has "Play Of The Game" highlight reels after each game, where they a clip of what the system thought was a stand-out moment in the match. For a long time, this system favoured raw damage or kills in the shortest time possible. This means that the high damage characters would get positive reinforcement for how they played, even if their overall contributions to a team would have been very limited.
Finally there's the insistence of never switching off your "main". This is by no means just a problem with Widowmakers or Hanzos, but they tend to get more flack for it for the aforementioned reasons. From my experience (as someone who doesn't play Competitive) people are willing to give people a chance with their picks, but the expectation is that you swap away if it isn't working out. Probably a mixture of pride, wanting to get more experience with a character, and just wanting to play who you feel like. Nothing too unreasonable, but it can be frustrating in team-based games, where people want to look for reasons why they aren't doing as well as they could. Pointing fingers are others is pretty popular in any game.
I don't tell people to switch or heckle them for their choices, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't groan most days I played over this exact stuff.