Reminds me of playing my Fury Warrior in PvP in Vanilla WoW. Getting ridiculed and yelled at prior to the match starting then destroying everyone else in kills.
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*They pick a Widow or Hanzo*
- Thread starter TheSpoiler
- Start date
It's hard to find a good player of those characters, they seem few and far between; I guess that also applies to characters like Rein, but a bad Rein can be more of an asset to the team than a bad Hanzo at least.
I'm typically very polite about it, and may ask them to switch if it isn't working out, or to adjust their targeting priorities if a Pharah is harassing our team. A toxic attitude and yelling at people will never help your team.
I'm typically very polite about it, and may ask them to switch if it isn't working out, or to adjust their targeting priorities if a Pharah is harassing our team. A toxic attitude and yelling at people will never help your team.
LifEndz
Member
I also have both of her achievements on PS4, but I'm far from a good enough shot to justify playing her in comp and I would never pick her in comp because both she and Hanzo are such one-dimensional/low-tier heroes that I would have to play incredibly well in order to justify the pick. (Mind you, I only play on console so none of what I'm about to say applies to PC players).
In comp, I usually play either Zarya, Soldier, Zen or Pharah, depending on what the team needs. And with those heroes, even if I have an average performance, I can still help the team in more ways than simply getting kills. With Widow or Hanzo, an average performance means I'm not helping the team nearly as much as I could if I were using a higher-tier hero because those two heroes are one-dimensional. Besides getting kills, they don't really do much to help the team.
Out of the many hours spent in competitive Overwatch, I've had maybe five matches with a really good Hanzo and maybe two matches with really good Widow players. But the vast majority of the time, those two are a liability for the team.
So my usual protocol is to politely greet the team, ask if the Hanzo or Widow wants to switch and be whatever hero or class I'm using. If not or if I get pushback, I let it rock and let the match play out. If losing is a foregone conclusion, I'll pick attack Torb or practice using Genji. I don't let it upset me.
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
Getting a lot of kills doesn't necessarily mean you're helping the team out as best you could. MOST decent players can get a helluva a lot of kills with a sniper in OW, and *should* have fewer deaths than everyone else. But if we've been pushing offense for the whole round unsuccessfully, I can almost guarantee almost any other pick is going to be worth flipping to in the last minute or two, at the *very* least.
That said, I'm almost ALWAYS willing to change my hero - especially if asked politely. I'm very polite about most picks, and definitely don't bitch at people. But if Hanzo and Widow are both picked for offense on hanamura for example, I usually just quit out at character select and queue another game.
I think, fundamentally, most my frustration stems from the fact I more regularly have both snipers on my team when the round starts than a I do a single healer. I'm not too picky about my class, so I'll usually fill in the gap before the setup timer finishes - but that means after nearly 200 hours of gameplay, I have drastically disproportionately played healer.
That said, I'm almost ALWAYS willing to change my hero - especially if asked politely. I'm very polite about most picks, and definitely don't bitch at people. But if Hanzo and Widow are both picked for offense on hanamura for example, I usually just quit out at character select and queue another game.
I think, fundamentally, most my frustration stems from the fact I more regularly have both snipers on my team when the round starts than a I do a single healer. I'm not too picky about my class, so I'll usually fill in the gap before the setup timer finishes - but that means after nearly 200 hours of gameplay, I have drastically disproportionately played healer.
LifEndz
Member
True. I was trying to be diplomatic, but you're right.
Even the pros swap away from Hanzo/Widow when the match calls for it or when they just aren't feeling it and keep missing. Seen it time and time again when watching pros stream.
If your pick doesn't work, swap.
Hanzos/Widows in comp almost never, ever swap. Doesn't matter what the situation calls for or how bad things are going for them, or how bad they are countered. THAT's the problem, not that they are picked in the first place. Well, picking dps is generally selfish and requires other people to pick healer/tank to get the team a win, so if you pick hanzo/widow (or other dps) -every- match, then you are a bit of an ass no matter what.
If your pick doesn't work, swap.
Hanzos/Widows in comp almost never, ever swap. Doesn't matter what the situation calls for or how bad things are going for them, or how bad they are countered. THAT's the problem, not that they are picked in the first place. Well, picking dps is generally selfish and requires other people to pick healer/tank to get the team a win, so if you pick hanzo/widow (or other dps) -every- match, then you are a bit of an ass no matter what.
If they aren't doing much work you can suggest a change (and there's certainly a lot of bad sniper mains out there, and even good ones can be inconsistent), but people who pre-tilt everyone before the game even starts with whining and insults because ~muh meta~ are pretty much the most toxic thing in the game, especially as they create a self-fulfilling prophecy because their whining makes others start playing much worse.
Ivan A Nguyen
Member
Had a guy who was terrible at Hanzo on a competitive match. I begged him to switch. He switched to Widowmaker. I gave up talking to him at that point.
Gai Murakumo
Member
Hanzo is really great though in the hands of a good player. I do not get why both him and Widowmaker get so much hate. You can still see bad players playing any of the other characters and they do not get the same stigma as Hanzo and Widow players. It is just weird. Personally I am a Junkrat player because I can do such crazy shenanigans with him.
Stallion Dan
Member
Because generally, especially on consoles, they cannot aim for shit.
At least a bad "any other character" will hit something fairly often.
Cipher Peon
Banned
I'm here to have a good time, they're also here for a good time.
So anyone can pick any character and they have my full blessing ^^
So anyone can pick any character and they have my full blessing ^^
HappehLemons
Member
If people only pick Widdow/Hanzo just report them. They will actually get ban lol.
It is actually against the rules in competitive to keep picking the same character / role every match if doesn't help the team and lots of people are getting ban for it.
It is actually against the rules in competitive to keep picking the same character / role every match if doesn't help the team and lots of people are getting ban for it.
I love that video. It was my first Dunkey experience, he's pretty funny.
chrominance
Member
I stopped playing Overwatch when I realized that not only did I care too much about stuff like this, I would care too much about the fact that other people also cared too much and would try to tell everyone else a) what to do or b) what we were doing wrong. Hell is other people.
Kor of Memory
Member
These characters are far from the most hated, though. At least they aren't anymore. If you are talking about when the game launched, maybe. But nowadays, it isn't really like that. Not with these two characters at least.
Note that on PC Hanzo and Widow a littler more accepted than on Console.
If I had to make a list of characters that people flip out about during the setup phase it would be in order:
Note, I haven't played a whole lot since the latest patch. I'd be surprised if people are hesitant to Orisa already.
Note that on PC Hanzo and Widow a littler more accepted than on Console.
If I had to make a list of characters that people flip out about during the setup phase it would be in order:
- Reaper - Reaper isn't even a bad pick, it's just that he has a lot of counters that are roaming the maps lately. People will tell you it's not a good pick, but rarely get mad about it.
- Hanzo - People might say, "I'm not sure we need a Hanzo." However, enough people have seen good Hanzo's that they'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and only complain about it if they think you aren't helping after the first minute or so. It helps he has great synergy with his Ult and Sonic Arrow.
- Widow - She gets less slack than Hanzo since she seems to have less survivability, and less synergy.
- Torbjorn - Sometimes map specific. People see Torbjorn as weak because he doesn't feel like a full character unless his turret is up. A lot of people assume this is a "throwing" character.
- Sombra - The average person has no idea how to play her, so it's pretty rare to find one that actually knows what they are doing. Even if you find a Sombra that knows how to play, no one else knows how to synergize with her. People will likely want you to switch to a hitscan. A lot of people assume this is a "throwing" character.
- Junkrat - Congratulations, your entire team now assumes you are throwing and will pick other random characters to punish you and your entire team.
Note, I haven't played a whole lot since the latest patch. I'd be surprised if people are hesitant to Orisa already.
InterMusketeer
Member
This. If they're in your team they can't hit the broad side of a barn, if the enemy team has them, they insta-kill you from miles away.
One time I was playing comp on Volskaya
We were doing a typical comb with soldier, rein, lucio..etc
Couldn't take the first point
For round 2 on defense my team went:
Hanzo, Widowmaker, Torbjorn, Bastion(before buff), and Symmetra
And I decided to go mercy since she's the best solo healer
AND BOY DID HANZO & WIDOW CARRY!
one time I solo rezed hanzo because he was in the front lines destroying everybody!
We ended up drawing(The meme strat worked!) and I was like "WHY DIDN'T YOU GO HANZO BEFORE, SIR?"
After that game I decided to just give the hanzos & widows a chance before asking them "very politely" to choke on my Lijiang tower
We were doing a typical comb with soldier, rein, lucio..etc
Couldn't take the first point
For round 2 on defense my team went:
Hanzo, Widowmaker, Torbjorn, Bastion(before buff), and Symmetra
And I decided to go mercy since she's the best solo healer
AND BOY DID HANZO & WIDOW CARRY!
one time I solo rezed hanzo because he was in the front lines destroying everybody!
We ended up drawing(The meme strat worked!) and I was like "WHY DIDN'T YOU GO HANZO BEFORE, SIR?"
After that game I decided to just give the hanzos & widows a chance before asking them "very politely" to choke on my Lijiang tower
That was obviously a joke
maybe i'm lucky enough to be in an mmr range where this applies, but i only see people pick widow/hanzo if they're actually decent and can do things with them. i also think i have an anomalous solo queue experience because the vast majority of the teams i get are full of perfectly nice people who know their strengths and weaknesses and do their best to win.
Captainbojanglesiii
Banned
I'm undefeated in competitive with Hanzo and I still get yelled at to switch. I just don't because he's my only good DPS as someone who primarily plays tanks and healers
SomedayTheFire
Member
haven't played OW in so long. i love junkrat :-(
Head.spawn
Junior Member
Absolutely. The few instances that the person using her knew what they were doing, holy shit, it was a blood bath.
I just don't think she scales so well with all play levels and people that aren't as sound get pulled out early, killed, then forced into camping in spots that aren't very helpful.
TheApatheticOne
Member
Funny seeing this, as this past week on PS4 has been far and away the most awful week of matchmaking for me. Its like Blizzard sees my username, and actively tries to tie me to the worst teammates it can fathomably find. Like, not JUST losing, but like... 100-0 on both rounds of control, I get 6 kills playing as Mei, and have 5 gold medals. New thing is getting spawned locked. Im good, I think, but Im not good enough to go against 6 people who have at least played a FPS before, teamed with 5 people are simply doing nothing more than jumping in a wood chipper.
Back on the direct subject, on pretty much all PS4 pub games, "Choose your char..." Genji-Hanzo-Widow locked in. Usually Ana. Every. Game. No tanks (which is weird). Rarely a healer.
The reason for rage, which has been discussed, is that running to a good Hanzo or Widow on PS4 happens once every 100 games or so. And if you suck, which happens 99% of the time, you are away from the objective/fight, contributing absolutely nothing.
Back on the direct subject, on pretty much all PS4 pub games, "Choose your char..." Genji-Hanzo-Widow locked in. Usually Ana. Every. Game. No tanks (which is weird). Rarely a healer.
The reason for rage, which has been discussed, is that running to a good Hanzo or Widow on PS4 happens once every 100 games or so. And if you suck, which happens 99% of the time, you are away from the objective/fight, contributing absolutely nothing.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
I feel like no one ever picks widowmaker anymore lol. I wouldn't be surprised if she has the lowest pick rate in the game.
Backlogger
Member
I get less annoyed about Hanzo because I've seen a lot of good Hanzos but rarely see good Widows
Also it depends on the rest of the group comp and level, etc
What I notice more and more in general though is not that one person picks a fringe/niche character but half the team will. That is the biggest problem IMO. I played a match last night where 5 people picked DPS and defense. I picked a tank but we had no healer. Even when we lost the first checkpoint nobody switched to heals.
You end up just wasting time in a match you aren't likely to win. It's extremely selfish on the part of those 2-3 people that refuse to switch to something the team actually needs to win
In Quick Play it's nearly every game for me at least at at the start of the game
Also it depends on the rest of the group comp and level, etc
What I notice more and more in general though is not that one person picks a fringe/niche character but half the team will. That is the biggest problem IMO. I played a match last night where 5 people picked DPS and defense. I picked a tank but we had no healer. Even when we lost the first checkpoint nobody switched to heals.
You end up just wasting time in a match you aren't likely to win. It's extremely selfish on the part of those 2-3 people that refuse to switch to something the team actually needs to win
In Quick Play it's nearly every game for me at least at at the start of the game
Personally this drives me insane. People pick characters regardless of what the team needs, so it's even more frustrating when they're the last pick and they decide they're playing Hanzo, on attack, once everyone else has already picked. Playing a tank or healer every single game gets old.
¡HarlequinPanic!
Member
Widow's my most used character in Quick Play, but between changing ISPs and getting less ping and changing my mouse/keyboard since getting the game I've had to go through long periods of adjustment when playing as her that practice just needs to sort out and have gone through some strings of games where I've definitely let people down. I switch if I"m getting dunked (cause usually once you get a few picks as widow the opponent will begin switching up their comp), but also have a lot of games where I just need to try and stick to my guns.
It's worth it when you get play of the game and get that sweet highlight intro where she lowers herself upside down and aims~ Or when you nail that amazing jumpshot right at the start of the round on Anubis A when the spawn point gate lowers
It's worth it when you get play of the game and get that sweet highlight intro where she lowers herself upside down and aims~ Or when you nail that amazing jumpshot right at the start of the round on Anubis A when the spawn point gate lowers
A bad McCree can also at least serve as a distraction or something.
A bad Widowmaker or Hanzo literally just sits in the back sniping and failing to hit miserably the entire match.
It basically makes the match effectively 5vs6 except you're never getting anyone to replace your shitty Widowmaker.
I saw a guy who had massive playtime in widow but only in QP. His competitive stats were full of meta picks like top played rein lucio mercy. I kinda felt bad since he was a really good widow player but I guess he felt like he couldn't play her in competitive, probably in part because of his team's reaction.
KatamariOnTheRocks
Member
Most people suck with them so you're essentially down a player, however I'm one of the best Widows in the world so people always shut up the second the match starts when I play her. I see why people hate being on teams with them because most people really are terrible with them but when you come across someone that can actually play them it's always a really fun match.
TheRedSnifit
Member
Ignoring the question of whether Widow and Hanzo are actually balanced, the main reason you see a ton of hostility towards them is because there's no scoreboard.
Because there's no way of actually evaluating performance (unless you go out of your way to micromanage the team, which almost nobody does or should have to do), peoples' judgement of other players is based solely on their class choice. Accordingly, when people are losing, they hit tab, check for the least meta pick on their team (usually Hanzo or Widow), and assume that's why they're losing - and when they're winning, they assume that they won in spite of that player.
Since everybody assumes that a non-meta pick drags them down, they get worked up whenever they see one. I've seen teams scream at god-tier Hanzos, but not say a word to the shitty Reinhardt on their team who mindlessly charges into the enemy team and gets killed. At this point, either the Hanzo ignores everybody, keeps playing extremely well, and gets blamed if they lose, or he switches and they still lose, and they assume it''s because they had a Hanzo on their team at some point. Nobody actually gets better in this scenario, but the cycle of meta worship continues.
tl;dr: Adding a scoreboard will create a lot less vitriol for offclasses. Why people continue to defend not having one is beyond me.
e: Another issue is that there's no "Big Teams" game mode. In a 12v12 TF2 match nobody cares if they have a shitty Sniper (unless there's a ridiculous number of them) because there's a ton of people to pick up the slack, but Overwatch matches only go up to 6v6 where having a guy who doesn't contribute is a huge deal. So even in QP you see a ton of meta worship.
Because there's no way of actually evaluating performance (unless you go out of your way to micromanage the team, which almost nobody does or should have to do), peoples' judgement of other players is based solely on their class choice. Accordingly, when people are losing, they hit tab, check for the least meta pick on their team (usually Hanzo or Widow), and assume that's why they're losing - and when they're winning, they assume that they won in spite of that player.
Since everybody assumes that a non-meta pick drags them down, they get worked up whenever they see one. I've seen teams scream at god-tier Hanzos, but not say a word to the shitty Reinhardt on their team who mindlessly charges into the enemy team and gets killed. At this point, either the Hanzo ignores everybody, keeps playing extremely well, and gets blamed if they lose, or he switches and they still lose, and they assume it''s because they had a Hanzo on their team at some point. Nobody actually gets better in this scenario, but the cycle of meta worship continues.
tl;dr: Adding a scoreboard will create a lot less vitriol for offclasses. Why people continue to defend not having one is beyond me.
e: Another issue is that there's no "Big Teams" game mode. In a 12v12 TF2 match nobody cares if they have a shitty Sniper (unless there's a ridiculous number of them) because there's a ton of people to pick up the slack, but Overwatch matches only go up to 6v6 where having a guy who doesn't contribute is a huge deal. So even in QP you see a ton of meta worship.
Like the only the time a Hanzo or Widow is good is on attack, despite the game labeling them as defense characters.
falconxcrunner09
Member
Its because 99% of players suck as Hanzo and Widow on console. It's just a fact. You need a high level to play them and most people don't have it on console. I have never won a game with a Widow on my team. I know this because I have been keeping track ever since the beta since I noticed a trend in the beta where Widow = loss. She just needs to be completely reworked on consoles some how to make her more viable.
PC it's a different story. I have seen teams with Hanzo, Widow and Ana on Offense and will crush the other team.
PC it's a different story. I have seen teams with Hanzo, Widow and Ana on Offense and will crush the other team.
Chezzymann
Member
I just mute the chat
Stallion Dan
Member
Because a scoreboard would cater to DPS with others getting shit on for not scoring as high, discouraging their use. Players would ignore objectives because gotta pad that score and K/D.
Scoreboard would be awful.
I give them the benefit of the doubt.
Was against a team with a widow last night on Hollywood, as soon as the gate opened our soldier and mercy got killed, it took us by surprise, i tought it was an aimbot since it was headshot after headshot, but it was just a really good widow player.
Was against a team with a widow last night on Hollywood, as soon as the gate opened our soldier and mercy got killed, it took us by surprise, i tought it was an aimbot since it was headshot after headshot, but it was just a really good widow player.
clockworkinyou
Banned
Fuck Hanzo players. Stupid fucking character.
falconxcrunner09
Member
You should really mute just the toxic players. I started to recently use game chat regularly on PS4 and I have been winning a lot of Competitive games. Ratio is 70% win and 30% loss now. The times when we loss was because of some guy who thought he was all that and brought the whole team down via feeding, going in alone, etc. Everyone else was fine tho
LMFAO 😂😂😂
benicillin
Banned
This is why I prefer playing on PS4 because at least I don't get roped into general chat on there often. Usually the ones complaining most loudly about character comp are the people who are going to suck anyway. The number of times I've been playing healer because people were crying about needing one and then had those same people be total garbage are inumerable.
Play the characters you like. The only time I even entertain the idea of worrying about team comp is if I'm playing with a full group and we all discuss it.
Play the characters you like. The only time I even entertain the idea of worrying about team comp is if I'm playing with a full group and we all discuss it.
Aizo
Banned
Whenever somebody tells me not to play a class, I just laugh. I don't play widow or hanzo, because I don't think I'd be very good, but why do people ask someone to switch classes before a match even starts? So presumptuous. Often times, the people that tell me to play something else end up playing considerably worse than me. Why don't they switch?
well yeah thats the problem. Incompetents see a cool 234890x headshot Hanzo video online and wanna do the same, but the problem is 99% of people who pick Hanzo or Widow suck. This is on console btw so you can imagine how often someone can actually pull their weight with a sniper.
Hello? This is Hailun!
Member
I hold my tongue and wait and see if they're a garbage player and then politely ask them to change. In general if you're in competition you should stick to the meta.
benicillin
Banned
If you're worried about the meta then play with a pre-made group.