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Tinder is destroying mens self-esteem (New York Post)
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ClosingADoor
Member
So, you sure showed them right!
This might be the saddest thing in this thread until now.
Unless you're are top grade POC, tinder is probably going to suck for you. I've seen asian females who prefer white males only date black males because they were far above the average. I guess POC and white people have different expectations when it comes to choosing on the partner scales.
You're a superstar no matter where you are.
You're a superstar no matter where you are.
Depends how selective you are being. I used to swipe right on nearly everyone and somewhere around 1300 matches I realized what's the point. Now I'm extremely picky and have close to 400.
ajim
Member
Yeah im not a swipe right on everyone person. Even being selective i cant be bothered having conversation with most of them.
John Kowalski
Banned
Honestly i mean i don't know what people are expecting. I'm probably gonna sound like some old irredeemably anachronistic goof that's just too far from the realities of the modern man and woman. But how isn't it clearly obvious that a software that reduces you to your most basic elements would completely destroy your perception of yourself? I haven't used it myself because i think it requires a facebook account, but i've seen my friend use it and it literally just is pick who looks like someone hot, pretty, or interesting with no room for any degree of complexity to actually communicate what kind of person you are, and all that shit that makes you feel like a human being.
Of course that engaging in a platform that doesn't let you show others the actual depth and volume of your person, and for intimate relations no less, would utterly remove you from a place of proper self reflection. How can self reflection be healthy when you're missing such a huge chunk of your self?
Of course that engaging in a platform that doesn't let you show others the actual depth and volume of your person, and for intimate relations no less, would utterly remove you from a place of proper self reflection. How can self reflection be healthy when you're missing such a huge chunk of your self?
Key to meeting someone for something real on tinder is to use that super like on someone who you have similar interests with and are of roughly equal attractiveness. That plus actually talking to them like a person.
I'm like 5'11"ish almost and don't put my height on tinder because I know some people will auto swipe left. Instead I include pics of me and my dogs. People love dogs.
I'm like 5'11"ish almost and don't put my height on tinder because I know some people will auto swipe left. Instead I include pics of me and my dogs. People love dogs.
Liquid-San
Member
Whenever I use the app, I always swipe right to win and then unmatch people. It's sort of counterproductive approach, but it helps weed out people who may be into you superficially. I'm not that attractive either, and I get at least like anywhere between 20-30 matches a week. It's important to have you profile up for a while as the userbase changes constantly, so don't eliminate your profile in the interim.
From the women I've spoken to on the app, some wouldn't vibe with me or I with them. So while yes, the initial swipe is what leads to the initial encounter, more often than not, you have to have a modicum of conversational skills. To an extent, it's exactly what people are like in real life. You'll start speaking to someone because in one form or another because you're attracted to them physically. The conversations you have with said party afterwards, is what keeps that attraction alive.
But, I do agree that it is a very shallow form of dating, but most dating is.
From the women I've spoken to on the app, some wouldn't vibe with me or I with them. So while yes, the initial swipe is what leads to the initial encounter, more often than not, you have to have a modicum of conversational skills. To an extent, it's exactly what people are like in real life. You'll start speaking to someone because in one form or another because you're attracted to them physically. The conversations you have with said party afterwards, is what keeps that attraction alive.
But, I do agree that it is a very shallow form of dating, but most dating is.
Jawmuncher
Member
I think anyone saying their "not that hot" and are getting all of these likes a week are either hitting bits, or are thinking a bit less of themselves.
ClosingADoor
Member
Isn't that the case in real life also when you want to approach a stranger for dating? What else are you going on when you don't know the person.
John Kowalski
Banned
I mean, not really, when you meet someone new in person you can get a much better perspective of what kind of person they are, and optimally you would already kind of know someone before actually being romantically interested in them. By them being friends of friends, by working with them in some way, by having worked with them in the past, because you're you both always go to the same places all that kind of jazz. All of those already give you more than what someone's face looks like and what kinds of clothing they're wearing, and most importantly, life (meaning, when you're doing things in life) is not a controlled space and by interacting with people in real life you inevitably give off a much more complex image than when you can control exactly what people can see of you.
But, again, this really is not what my point was and this constant redirection towards the mechanisms of dating are really putting a hamper on the discourse about this subject. Subject being self esteem, self perception, not... dating. Dating is one aspect out of many in how you relate to other humans and it will never provide a proper way to perceive yourself in isolation, which is exactly what folks seem to be doing with Tinder and similar platforms. And this in turn seems to accentuate what everyone think about what being with humans means.
Like that poster who also quoted me, declaring that i would start a conversation with someone because they're attractive, which, i mean, it's clearly obvious to me that that's simply not the case. I don't talk to people because they're attractive, i talk to people because i want to talk, and whether they're attractive or not rarely provides a good measure of how good at talking they are (in fact, if i may be permitted some degree of stupidity, i admit i tend to avoid very attractive people on the grounds that they are likely not very interested in talking). And i accept that this might be just me, it might, but it does no one no good to speak in generalized manner at the same time dismissing the broad nature of how different people can live and do things differently, including these specific things relating to human interaction. Is it true that some people only talk to others because they're physically attracted to them? Yes, it is, but is that true for the vast majority of humans? No, it really isn't, and the degree of demographics culling you would have to do to make that a positive is so overwhelmingly myopic that i'm tired of accepting it as the common parlance of this supposedly cosmopolitan society of ours. How wouldn't that kind of myopia dissolve any sense of self worth? How wouldn't it make your self esteems stand on wooden stilts so thin any bump on the road would demand strenuous, exhausting dexterity to keep yourself together?
Sorry for the long post.
Liquid-San
Member
I've often been mistaken for being gay because of my fashion sense, but I don't care in the slightest. Just be confident in what you wear, don't try too hard, and the women will flock to you.
Everyone on here keeps stating that height kills people, but my friend is like 5'7"-5'8" and he always has women flocking to him in clubs.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
My favorite part is when correlation is used throughout that page.
Do you have anecdotes of how these statistics are affecting short males? Like, are any financially ruined? Socially ruined? There are negatives to being short but it's not actually affecting someone too much. I'll ask you since the others don't actually want to answer: why should I invest energy in a movement that mostly appears when a man is rejected by a woman?
what the! i'm lucky to get one match a week
Restart your account. There are algorithms in place that most people don't know about. Not sending a message to a match, unmatching immediately, swiping right on everyone, etc. puts you at the back of the queue because the behavior hurts their product. Restarting your account resets it. For reference, my 5'6 self has gotten over 100 matches in the last two weeks since restarting my account.
Actually, the bad thing is that I now have too many matches that maintaining multiple conversations is a hassle. I forget to actually respond to women who then probably think I've ghosted them.
Yup, this wasn't the case as much pre-tinder but in a post-tinder world, even on older dating sites, this is now the thing. The behavior swing changes it to more of a numbers game; it's more logical to message multiple women than to focus on one who has multiple guys sending her a message. Example: I spent half a day going and back forth bantering with a girl. We were super compatible with the chat, I asked her out, she was excited and said yes. I proposed the place and she then stopped responding. lol
xKilltheMx
Member
Uh how do you do this? Asking for a friend >.>
ClosingADoor
Member
You still approach them because you find them attractive or interesting. At least if you are looking for dates, which is what the whole app is about. You need to compare it to approaching strangers, not friends. And if you approach a stranger for a date, I can't really think of anything other then attractiveness and/or looking like an interesting person for you.
That is how some people use it. Like with a lot of things, don't focus exclusively on it. Tinder and online dating are good to use, but not as your only way to get in touch with people. The problem here is not Tinder then, it is people giving up on other ways of getting a date or relationship, which are all still available.
You are leaving out the whole "interesting" part from earlier. You talk to them because you find them "hot, pretty, or interesting". Someone doesn't have to be hot to be interesting as a person.
... What? What are you asking?
No one is financially ruined just because of their height, just like no woman is financially ruined because of being a woman. That does not mean a salary gap does not exist, and in both cases it does. There is research on this area. Research conducted on a certain topic has much more weight than any anecdotes (because they are just that, anecdotes), and it is easily accessible online in psychology journals, especially those that study behaviour. Studies show that height in men affect how they are socially perceived , and also that it does influence hiring decisions (taller men are more likely to be considered positively in hiring and other screening processes). And there is a salary gap between shorter and taller men, everything else being equal.
Also, you seem to be under the notion that acknowledging height discrimination somehow negates or takes importance from discrimination against women. It does not. Not only that, but height discrimination also affects women, it is not men-exclusive and it goes well beyond dating preferences. Shorter women also tend to earn less money than their taller counterparts for the same work.
You are disregarding all studies presented in front of you because "correlation", but then you make claims such as "There are negatives to being short but it's not actually affecting someone too much", please show us your references and sources for those claims. We have show you ours.
Because a) it does not only appear in dating preferences, and b) it is a form of sexism.
Height discrimination comes from the sexist idea that men should be big, strong and dominant as a response of women being small, fragile and submissive. When men are too short (or women too tall) they not longer adhere to those conceptions and then they are attacked because of that.
When you ask many women why do they find taller men attractive, many answer that it's "because they feel feminine and protected". In reality they find them attractive just because tall height is an attractive trait in men, but they come with the excuse of feeling protected because of pre-determined gender roles on how a woman cannot protect herself and needs a bigger, stronger man to be safe.
Echelon079
Member
You can tell it's cuffing season. Tinder matches be getting lower and lower
John Kowalski
Banned
I know that's the problem and that's what i've been making light of. Exclusively engaging with things like Tinder to search for partners instead of looking for them in other venues or parts of your life, and permitting that to shape the bigger part of your perception of your self worth. And i'd disagree that Tinder is not the part of the problem, Tinder has a clear interest in the continued success of its software and will act to that end, i doubt, with care for the mental health of its subset of users that suffers particularly for it.
The Hermit
Member
to me is the polar opposite
I realized I am a much hotter guy than I though thanks to tinder
and I am short, (1,69 cm) and like to date taller girls
prot tip: be intresting. That beats looks and heigh
I realized I am a much hotter guy than I though thanks to tinder
and I am short, (1,69 cm) and like to date taller girls
prot tip: be intresting. That beats looks and heigh
A lot of the responses in here confirm my thoughts on tinder. It's basically a game for both women and men to see how many matches they get, maybe talk to a few people, and very rarely ever meet up with anyone. I've used it sparingly and usually it's either a scam for a webcam or you talk to someone for a week or so and then ask them to meet up and their like nah I don't really want to meet anyone in person. Thanks for wasting my time. In not going to develop a cyber relationship with someone who may or may not even be real for months before someone may or may not even want to grab some coffee or a drink.
Met my gf of nearly a year on okcupid, and before that met 3 girls I dated for 3-6 months each on okcupid as well. Those ones ended up not working out, but one girl is still actually a friend, so that's cool.
So in my experience okcupid is far superior to tinder as far as people being willing to meet up and actually start dating in real life.
Met my gf of nearly a year on okcupid, and before that met 3 girls I dated for 3-6 months each on okcupid as well. Those ones ended up not working out, but one girl is still actually a friend, so that's cool.
So in my experience okcupid is far superior to tinder as far as people being willing to meet up and actually start dating in real life.
Roufianos
Member
This is very true.
Messofanego
Banned
I don't think Subpar Spatula is arguing in good faith. He's stubborn to understanding the issues that height brings, and can't seem to understand the broader context of the problem in other areas than just dating. He seems to believe that we're asking him to play his pity violin just for males when height problems affect women too. I think because we're in a thread about dating, he perceives that people bringing up height discrimination are only interested in this topic and not the other areas where it's involved.
I'd love for him to make another post about demanding anecdotes as if that somehow makes for a good argument
Just head to settings, delete profile and remake it. You lose all your matches / messages.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
We can find stories, articles, etc of many individual women who legit see effects of the beauty standard from crazy dieting, bulimia, obesity, cosmetic surgery, etc. We see more than statistics of an inch being worth 2.6%. Anecdotes help because we see past correlation, causation, etc. It's why when you do statistics you need proof of it IE men with the name Jamal won't be hired as much as someone named Jeremy, so when we show stories of employers throwing away resumes of Jamal we see the damage. You need a face to put with the statistics or how does anyone know if anyone is affected a whole lot?
I believe everyone needs to be able to accept a certain amount of harm because the world isn't 100% fair; so when someone says their life is impacted a lot by being 5'6 but they're decently off in life, I scratch my head. Sure, you're facing some issues but it's not wrecking you emotionally, mentally, socially, or financially -- at best you're seeing minimal reductions in quality of life (something you probably wouldn't even notice if you were 6'1). I can read the statistics just fine, I'm just hoping there's faces to go with this huge problem so I can see the damage.
EatinOlives
Member
I've literally never heard "yeah documented statistics is all well and good but your argument isn't valid unless you give me anecdotal evidence!" being peddled as a legitimate argument. This just cracks me up.
You've simply reiterated your post without offering any kind of rebuttal, repeating "yeah but reductions in QoL are minimal. I've no evidence, but trust me!" Metroxed's made it pretty clear that nobody's trying to minimize any of the other social inequalities arising from superficial standards that apply to both men and women (and in many cases, disproportionately toward women), but you still haven't made any real argument as to why this isn't worth talking about. It is, with the obvious caveat that this is far from the worst inequality that exists in the world at the moment.
This is pretty weird bruh
xKilltheMx
Member
I've worked so hard for all 3 of them dammit. I REFUSE.
lol thanks for the info, I'm already cuffed for cuffing season so this is the best time to do it I guess.
I agree with this. Online dating and Tinder especially promote a meat market mentality and exacerbates the 'grass is greener' effect.
I'm not sure if you're being serious. Literally nothing about my post should be inflammatory in any way towards a reasonable person.
You know, you normally see people disregarding anecdotic evidence in favour of statistical, research-based evidence. It's the first time in my life that I see someone disregard the latter in favour of the former. Anecdotic evidence is pretty much worthless when trying to prove a phenomenon.
What you're saying is not too different from someone coming with the news that, for example, 30% of women in x place suffer from domestic abuse and someone saying "that cannot be true because I never heard any woman in x complaining about their husband hitting her". It's completely senseless.
But if you're so keen on having anecdotes, what about this 14-year-old boy who comitted suicide after years of relentless bullying because of his small stature. I do not like having to bring such tragic events for the sake of an argument, and I shouldn't have to, because in normal discussions researched data is what most people accept.
Anecdotic evidence about other types of height-based discrimination is hard to come by because people tend not to be very open to share it - which is logical given how many people like you disregard it as a non-issue. But the studies and the data is out there.
dreamcastmaster
Banned
It's a meta game, not hard to understand.
Bruce Springsteen
Member
Proving what besides the obvious?
Ahah really. I used to use it and swipe almost everyone right and was got only like two matches, but then for the hell of if I started swiping left and was not getting any matches, so I deleted my account. Not that I'm feeling like going back, but nice to know.
I just dont understand what could possibly be fun about it. Ogling girls that will never date you? Idk.
I'm sure the same people would be annoyed if they matched with someone who ended up being a bot/catfish/fraud/just using the app for an esteem boost with zero intention of dating, too.
Z..
Member
Or just let things happen on their own, instead of quantifying yourself as just another expendable consumable. How about that?
Stallion Dan
Member
Just lie on your profile or if they ask, if they ask always ask back "Would it matter if I was shorter" because they'll always lie and say no, so you're then partners in crime and immune to criticism.
Whatever gets you to the date where you can actually sell yourself properly since common decency usually kicks in, instead of shallow internet checkboxes.
Whatever gets you to the date where you can actually sell yourself properly since common decency usually kicks in, instead of shallow internet checkboxes.
GraveHorizon
poop meter feature creep
I put this as my first photo, but the matches went down so I moved it to the second. I get a lot more with my decent face.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Anecdotes help show how real and present the phenomenon is. When you say 30% of women in X face domestic abuse, there will be stories of it regardless because those stories make up the statistics, in a way. It's why a lot of these height studies are correlation.
It's horrible what happened to Lamar Hawkins III, it's unfortunate because children born with medical conditions are usually easy targets for bullies. This gives insight into how height discrimination works and is good to know.
When folks point to men making 2.6% more per inch, or how they're not hired as often, etc. it paints a scary picture for short men. You also have to consider that I'm not speaking for little people or people with medical issues (because it's well known they really don't get a fair shake), but more towards the men who are about 5'4 to, like, 5'8 who believe everything is because of their height and that being 6'2 will fix everything. It's not that I 100% don't believe in height discrimination exists (I do you can see many stats and examples for how little people are treated) but that there's a group of vocal men out there who use it as a cover to say they've failed at X because of it -- and it's usually brought up when dating is involved. Hopefully that helps you understand where I'm coming from.
I don't mess with Tinder that much, but I believe I've gotten one match that wasn't a bot. And...I haven't messaged her yet. Not really sure how to approach it, particularly since she has a kid. I guess I'm not opposed to dating someone with a kid (can't really be, at 30 living in the South), but it makes hesitant to be the one pursuing (well, more hesitant to pursue than I already am in general). Got to get over that if I ever want to go on a date with anyone.
what the! i had to look this up but it made me realize all my relationships started in fall :O
Why would swiping right harm on everyone harm your chances?
I understand your position, and it is true, there are many short men that seem to believe that their height is the root of all their problems in life (r/short is a perfect example of this), and that if they suddenly became 6' tall everything would be solved, and everything would be perfect. The truth is that this type of people tend to be young people and the extent of their real problems does not go far away beyond dating, so that's what they complain about. In the end, it makes it look like dating is the only place where height matters, when in reality height discrimination goes well beyond that.
I do not believe women having a peference over talle men is discrimination, but I do believe that everything else (salary gap, pre-conceived perceptions, being the subject of mockery and ridicule, etc.) is, and it is still the one form of shaming over something that cannot be controlled that is still somehow seen as acceptable. You can call a short guy a "hobbit" and the entire room will laugh, whereas openly mocking people because of any other physical trait will be frown upon. That's my point.
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