Razgriz-Specter
Member
I would definitely agree with that.
Yup, its especially sad and noticeable with WB pumping out the Animated DTVs and even middle tier ones are blowing their DCEU movies away in nearly every aspect.
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Today in DCEU: Affleck reportedly wants out as Batman
- Thread starter SFenton
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I would definitely agree with that.
Dash_Riprock
Member
Assuming everyone who doesn't fall down and love this shitstain series is one of them "Marvel people."
Yeah, no bias detected there...
Considering how many people love Dick grayson and the Red hood was one of the popular animated movies i thing even a lot of casual fans want to see some form of the bat family.
miller.skippins
Banned
Alfred-NEVER.gif
This is not at all surprsing. Affleck smells the stink on the DC Universe, and it's clear he doesn't want his name attached to a losing property. I sincerely believe that he wants to write/direct/act in a Batman movie, and that this is just a powerplay to make Warner/DC reboot all the garbage they've greenlighted. Let him cast a new Joker, move the timeline backward to a point where Batman wasn't a sadistic murderer, etc.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
DCEU is dead, bury it.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
A Flashpoint Flash movie really needs to be WB's eject button on this if it comes to it.
Wonder Woman is already made. Justice League is filming or maybe finished filming. Would those be the last two DCEU movies released, if Warner decides to blow up their current DC continuity?
I assume Gotham City Sirens could be reworked to fit whatever new direction they might head in.
I assume Gotham City Sirens could be reworked to fit whatever new direction they might head in.
JimiNutz
Banned
I can understand why Ben wants off the sinking ship but his Batman and Irons' Alfred were brilliant and easily the best thing in the DCEU by miles.
HQ was also probably the best thing in SS so the DCEU at least has some decent Batman material in play.
It's a real shame that they can't get a decent script and director in place because this portrayal of Batman has the potential to be the best yet seen on screen.
HQ was also probably the best thing in SS so the DCEU at least has some decent Batman material in play.
It's a real shame that they can't get a decent script and director in place because this portrayal of Batman has the potential to be the best yet seen on screen.
miller.skippins
Banned
I am from the future and i have big news to share...
this will be the biggest news in 2018....
Ben Affleck casts as Nighthawk in the movie, Squadron Supreme, one of the Phase 4 MCU movies.
Henry Cavill casts as Hyperion
Gal Gadot casts as Power Princess.
Ryan Reynolds casts as Dr. Spectrum
this will be the biggest news in 2018....
Ben Affleck casts as Nighthawk in the movie, Squadron Supreme, one of the Phase 4 MCU movies.
Henry Cavill casts as Hyperion
Gal Gadot casts as Power Princess.
Ryan Reynolds casts as Dr. Spectrum
Aaron Strife
Banned
If Affleck leaves as Batman they need to abandon the DCEU.
The prospect of a solo Batman film starring him is the only thing keeping me around.
The prospect of a solo Batman film starring him is the only thing keeping me around.
The Strokes
Banned
Fair enough, didn't detect the sarcasm on that part. But I stand by my point, and if you're into Batman I don't know how you don't agree, that that 'protrayal' of Batman isn't bad because it wasn't even the real Batman.
And villain? He was never framed as such, in any case, Superman (another poor pooor attempt at that as well) was the villain most of the movie.
Yep, Bat-family dynamics are incredible. I need them in the DCEU eventually.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Aquaman will still probably happen unless WB drops out in the next few weeks/months.
which really puts WB in a tough spot if Wonder Woman, JL or Aquaman are successful since Batman, Joker, Lex are looking fucked and Superman is kinda screwed.
Thats why im saying Flashpoint instead of a regular Flash movie.
Keep Harley for example but fix Lex and Joker, Batman as well if Ben really wants out.
The actual reboots would be so far out, just get the reactions from Wonder Woman and Justice League and reboot from Flash accordingly.
Just start making the Flash movie Flashpoint regardless(it would essentially be Justice League 2) and deal with the outcome as we get there.
Sirens would follow it and reference the new Joker and potentially Batman.
You could just straight recast but I think Ben has a favorable opinion which could hurt a straight recast in a Hulk situation.
MHWilliams
Member
But here's my question:
Wouldn't you rather just have better movies?
It's not like DC can't make better projects. Batman: Year One, All-Star Superman, Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, Justice League: The New Frontier, and Batman: Under the Red Hood are just the tip of a host of great animated adaptations.
On television, they have their up and downs, but most of the shows this season have found a good groove: Arrow is great, Legends of Tomorrow finally knows what it is, Supergirl and Flash need a bit of work, but they're still solid.
Filmwise, Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, and Lego Batman are legitimately great. The Dark Knight Rises and Man of Steel are solid, but could've been great with some heavy work.
But Batman v Superman and Suicide Squad are not well-written films. They are bereft of meaningful characterization and full of simple storytelling mistakes. Suicide Squad's editing is jacked.
I'm not saying you can't enjoy them. By all means, but from a craft perspective, they aren't good films. And these are some great characters and for the most part, some solid casts! It's frustrating to see WB fumble the ball with what they have available.
Is Marvel batting a thousand? Nah. Thor 2 is straight boring and forgettable, Age of Ultron was an equal waste of great character/casting combo (James Spader as Ultron, damnation), and Civil War was uneven. But for the most part, Marvel's studio system produces solid to above average films. Hell, Disney as a whole is rocking it these days.
I want WB to get there. You should want WB to get there. Wonder Woman seems all good and I've maintained a strong faith on this forum in James Wan's Aquaman. But what we've gotten so far hasn't been great and people are going to react to that.
That's maybe the worst part of it. The have a great Alfred and a great Batman, but their Joker is tolerated at best, hated at worst. I'm not sure if anyone really wants the franchise to go forward in this continuity if they are going to be stuck with a corny busted Joker. At the same time, people do seem to like Margot Robie as Harley Quinn.
I don't even know what the right solution is. Can they keep Jeremy Irons and Affleck while dropping Leto, or do they need to make a harder, more definitive break from what's already been established? Sony/Marvel bit the bullet on a complete Spider-Man reboot, and it seems to be paying off.....but it would be such a shame to lose Affleck and Irons.
Maybe they can do some kind of Days of Future Past thing, where they can retain the elements people liked while recasting actors that needed to be replaced.
Boombloxer
Member
Not really, no. Captain Marvel is already planned.
Their only competition is themselves.
Can this be turned around? Of course, but some of these decisions are straight up baffling.
Discotheque
Banned
I don't really fuck with this "real batman/spiderman/superman" etc. point people always harp on. It's so reductive to adaptations.
Batfleck was no crazier a departure than frank miller's take was when he put out tdkr. We don't own batman. There weren't all that many liberties taken with him anyways in this movie. The killing thing yeah, which ends up just establishing a point that it's the character at his lowest point in his history.
I dunno. I've loved the Morrison and snyder comics and the old animated series and all that. But I'm still willing to7 give something like this a chance. The characterization of batman and superman never bothered me. The execution of it was where it has been lacking tho. But if you can back up your ideas with good work behind it then I think these characters can be malleable.
Also I generally hate snyder movies but ended up enjoying BvS. Something about the outsiders perspective of superman seemed pretty cool imo. I think the first half of the movie shows a lot of promise in particular. Definitely the most intriguing comic universe movie I think
TDKR was kind of meant to be a dark, pessimistic conclusion for the Bruce Wayne/Batman character. It wasn't really meant to support multiple future solo outings or teamups involving the Justice League. TDKR works as a standalone project, but it does not integrate well into a shared universe or followup projects. "Where do we go from here?" is not really a question you ask yourself at the end of it, but for a cinematic universe that's supposed to be the question you ask at the end of every movie.
Talladega Knight
Member
I know I'm in the minority, I enjoyed Man of Steel, LOVED LOVED LOVED Batman vs Superman (extended), and disliked Suicide Squad (ok I'm just like everyone else on this one), but each of those films made pretty good money right? Granted, Batman v Superman wasn't as successful as it could have been, but Suicide Squad did pretty well. They'd rank 5th and 7th respectively if you compared their box office take with the MCU. Not too shabby. I'd imagine Justice League should do just as well, if not better. Warner Bros would be nuts to blow it up now. Critical reaction aside, these films are making money. I'm just grateful I've enjoyed a majority of them so far.
Sweeney Tom
Banned
Comics better than they've been in years, animated films mostly better than ever, Lego films great
Baffling that the easiest slam dunk they should have had (live action films with top talent) is their biggest source of trash
There will be books made about this saga for years
Baffling that the easiest slam dunk they should have had (live action films with top talent) is their biggest source of trash
There will be books made about this saga for years
Discotheque
Banned
To hell with a shared universe. Maybe that's why I liked this quite a bit. It just did not seem like it fit into a "10 year plan" despite its insistence on shoving these teasers in our face. Like that terribly placed email attachment scene. The world feels so well established just 2 movies in but at the same time seems like a really hard sell for a big franchise
If you ask me it seems like Snyder wants to make an injustice movie and WB told him fuck no
And essentially snyder fucked them all over by still insisting on throwing his brand of cynicism into it anyways
Boombloxer
Member
A film starring Captain America and Iron Man destroyed one with Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman. That is the very definition of shabby underperformance.
The Brand awareness alone shouldve meant $1B. It didn't even get to 900M. Batman alone did that.
So, no. There isn't "made enough, right?"; they've underperformed, been ravaged critically and people are on the fence. Justice League has to make Avengers money or yea, probably time to reconsider the overall take of the universe because it isn't maximizing the IP.
Discotheque
Banned
If WB didn't cancel that George Miller JL movie that was being made concurrently to the Nolan trilogy (and separate universes) I think the genre, and at WB especially would be pretty different right now (if it succeeded)
Less concern about fitting everyhing together. Just making whatever. Hell we'd prolly have justice league dark by now too
But in that alternate universe who knows if fury road would have happened. Not worth the sacrifice no matter how cool a bunch of elseworlds movies would have been
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Nobody is saying destroy it immediately,
If Wonder Woman is awful and Justice League disappoints in both reception and financially, burn it all down.
If people like Wonder Woman and Justice League decently WB is in a tight spot.
Wonder Woman - favorable appearances
Aquaman - favorable appearance
Flash - favorable appearance
Batman - favorable but wants out
Cyborg - favorable appearance
Superman - unfavorable appearances seemingly
Lex Luthor - extremely unfavorable appearance
Joker - extremely unfavorable appearance
They have to adjust that somehow in major ways.
Discotheque
Banned
Yeah that's where I think they flopped with Superman. Theyve done an amazing job on the outsiders perspective of him. All that news footage, or the metropolis scene in BvS opening, or when he flies into Africa. Dude looks like the most terrifying and powerful superhero in all movies.
But when the focus switches to him he's a fucking nothing man in a red cape. Need to humanize him a lot more.
But when the focus switches to him he's a fucking nothing man in a red cape. Need to humanize him a lot more.
The Strokes
Banned
I agree in the characters being malleable and not getting stuck in the stiffness that hardcore fans like to put creators, but Batman V. Superman doesn't play by this rule book simply because they're not interested in adapting Batman (aaaaaaaaaaaanyyyyyyy version of it) as we understood the character. Whether you like the dark and gloomy bats or the more amicable version that say, Scott Snyder did.
The Frank Miller stories are a great example of how concepts in an extreme version of Batman can be so misunderstood and misused by a guy like Zack Snyder who failed to address on his adaptation why his Bruce Wayne was so paranoid or acted on impulse.
Remember in TDKR when Batman got his ass handed to him by the leader of that gang of weirdos? He retracts from that stand of "fuck everything and everyone!" and becomes self-conscious about having to become methodical like in his good old years. The BvS didn't do that, because he's too focused on not being Batman.
He's The Punisher: no remorse for life, no friends, seeking pure cold hard vengeance and acting on instinct rather than facts, not rationalizing his actions which leads him to being completely outdone by a super doofus Lex Luthor. Like, I'm not a guy that likes to be critical by creating my own standards of how Batman should be, but man, that guy we saw on screen is in no way, shape or form Batman as we know it, and you gotta at least respect the psyche of the character you're adapting.
He's a cool otherverse super aggressive, uber dumb Batsie, if you're into a more physical take on him.
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
Watched Collider Movie Talk yesterday a couple of hours after the stream, went to GAF, saw that there was no thread, hesitated for a few seconds and then I shrugged, "probably too vague of a rumor", and went to sleep. And now of course there's a 6 pages thread!
I always say this here but as much as I like to watch the Collider crew (minus the insufferable Campea) nerd out, they are the last place I would go to for news. Big loveable bear Jon Schnepp makes shit up all the time, he can't help himself.
Now, is Affleck leaving likely? Sure, why not at this point. Anybody paying attention to WB and Affleck could have started that rumor. He was good in BvS but it was a mistake to start that universe with an older Batman just as it was a mistake to waste The Death of Superman and The Dark Knight Returns within another completely unrelated storyline.
But if he indeed leaves Batman behind, I bet we won't hear about it until after Justice League, otherwise the press cycle for that will just be toxic.
I always say this here but as much as I like to watch the Collider crew (minus the insufferable Campea) nerd out, they are the last place I would go to for news. Big loveable bear Jon Schnepp makes shit up all the time, he can't help himself.
Now, is Affleck leaving likely? Sure, why not at this point. Anybody paying attention to WB and Affleck could have started that rumor. He was good in BvS but it was a mistake to start that universe with an older Batman just as it was a mistake to waste The Death of Superman and The Dark Knight Returns within another completely unrelated storyline.
But if he indeed leaves Batman behind, I bet we won't hear about it until after Justice League, otherwise the press cycle for that will just be toxic.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
lol at people saying it's dead or to shut it down
Isn't DCCU still making bank? Doesn't really matter what fanboys think of it if it's still making a ton of money in the BO?
Isn't DCCU still making bank? Doesn't really matter what fanboys think of it if it's still making a ton of money in the BO?
MHWilliams
Member
This was the moment where I felt Synder might be able to nail it.
That moment where Clark begins to laugh a bit before falling like a rock? That felt human. It was great. This is regal and emotional in one scene. This is Superman.
Nothing else they've done with the character has touched this scene.
If they feel its on a downward trend, they'll course correct.
As others have pointed out, Amazing Spider-Man 1 and 2 made $757 million and $709 million respectively. They made damned good money. But the trend was downward in domestic and worldwide take, so... reboot.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
I understand that Superman is hard to do but you have to just roll with it.
Superman being likeable would have actually made BvS infinitely better, and the problem was they didn't even remotely try.
The Strokes
Banned
A movie with Batman and Superman was outgrossed by Deadpool. It's making bank, barely by the standards they expect.
Imperfected
Member
It was a Deadpool movie but audiences CAME for Negasonic Teenage Warhead!
PanSexual_Peacock
Member
But it wasn't
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Batman v Superman made 100million more that Deadpool.
but your point mostly stands.
The Strokes
Banned
Ah sure, BvS made 100 million more counting worldwide markets.
Now please revise each movie's budget.
Discotheque
Banned
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=deadpool2016.htm
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=superman2015.htm
nope.
though I get why BvS didn't make a billion. it's mean spirited and self-serious and not for the family crowd, I appreciated what they were doing but could tell right away as I was watching that this was gonna tank with family audiences. and not due to quality (or lack of many would say).
this is gonna sound fucked buI'd rather let a kid watch deadpool (gotta censor the dirty sex jokes tho lol) than BvS. and one is rated Pg-13.
but then i loved robocop when i grew up so i'm also a hypocrite
While he's wrong i wonder with Deadpool being r rated if speaks positively for deadpool or negatively for Bvs
How much would it cost Affleck to pull out of the project entirely? I assume he signed on long ago, for multiple movies and appearances. I assume they dumped a truckload of money at his feet for directing and acting.
For him to pull out now would almost certainly mean a breach of contract lawsuit. How much does it cost Affleck to get off of this sinking ship, and is it worth it?
For him to pull out now would almost certainly mean a breach of contract lawsuit. How much does it cost Affleck to get off of this sinking ship, and is it worth it?
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