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[Ignatz Mouse]

It's not like the origins are complicated. A few are, but most of them can be summed up very briefly, especially if the audience knows the character.

In "The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay" a point is made that it's not *how* the characters came to fight crime, but *why* that makes them compelling. That can be made clear in a single scene or even an exchange of dialogue.

 

[Sanjuro]

Bullshit.

You can relate to characters just fine without watching 80 minutes of them struggling to figure out how to incorporate their powers into their life.

Most people fall in love with these superheroes without knowing shit about their origins.

People talk about these characters like it's hard to like them without the proper knowledge going into it. Most of us managed it just fine at age 4 without a handy guide stepping us through the rote checklist on the way to superhero status.

If the writers and directors can't get you to like Superman within five minutes of Superman being onscreen, that's their bad. Doesn't matter where in his life the story is happening.

You don't get it. I need to see Kevin Costner wearing a tin foil hat the entire film, then getting himself killed by a tornado to resonate with any of these characters.

I don't mind films touching upon origins, but I don't need to see every little detail. Problem here is I feel most of the people complaining on the internet wants this for some reason and it gets thrown into some planning stage.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I think something similar to Batman Begins would work; where you start with the character already being a superhero and then flash back and give us their origin piecemeal throughout the movie.

Basically combine the first and second movie into one.

The only reason Batman Begins was necessary was that they were starting from the premise that this is exactly our world up to this point. Superhero movies don't need to to that anymore. We've punctured that barrier with the general public.

 

[Sanjuro]

The only reason Batman Begins was necessary was that they were starting from the premise that this is exactly our world up to this point. Superhero movies don't need to to that anymore. We've punctured that barrier with the general public.

The story of Batman Begins gets lost, as the entire landscape was completely different then. The film had shitty adverts and not a lot of people fully disconnected from the previous four film yet.

 

[Cowlick]

I think something similar to Batman Begins would work. You start with the character already being a superhero and then flash back and give us their origin piecemeal throughout the movie.

Basically combine the first and second movie into one.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

The story of Batman Begins gets lost, as the entire landscape was completely different then. The film had shitty adverts and not a lot of people fully disconnected from the previous four film yet.

It worked because it was well done, and we hadn't really seen it in that detail before. But you could do all of Batman's origins over the credits of a movie now.

 

[Schlorgan]

That too. It's been awhile since I'd seen it; I'd forgotten that it did that too.

 

[Sanjuro]

It worked because it was well done, and we hadn't really seen it in that detail before. But you could do all of Batman's origins over the credits of a movie now.

No, I mean the story of the Batman Begins theatrical landscape at the time, not the film itself. It's easy to fotget. The only thing keeping the genre alive at the time was Spider-Man.

 

[LosDaddie]

Origin stories are absolutely needed for the lesser known heroes. Not so much for the likes of Batman & Superman who've already had multiple origin movies.

 

[RareFantasy64]

You know an origin story I wouldn't mind? A Superman one. I know MOS was recent but it's so divisive. You know who should direct the next Superman movie? Joss Whedon. He nailed Cap in Avengers 1. He knows how to do the vanilla boy scout. I want Whedon to do a Superman movie so bad

I love the Dark Knight Rises and would be happy with a 4th Batman movie of that quality.

I like it. I love sections of it. I feel it's a step down in quality from BB and TDK but I wouldn't think someone is crazy for thinking it is just as good if not better than the first two

 

[Real Hero]

Origin stories are absolutely needed for the lesser known heroes. Not so much for the likes of Batman & Superman who've already had multiple origin movies.

They really aren't, just make a good movie

 

[icespide]

I think something similar to Batman Begins would work. You start with the character already being a superhero and then flash back and give us their origin piecemeal throughout the movie.

Basically combine the first and second movie into one.

am I crazy or Batman Begin did not start out with Bruce Wayne being Batman?

 

[Schlorgan]

am I crazy or Batman Begin did not start out with Bruce Wayne being Batman?

Not exactly like Batman Begins, but a similar use of nonlinear storytelling/editing could be used to tell the origin story without having the movie be an origin movie.

 

[Micromegas]

You know what a great origin story was? Luke Skywalker in Star Wars. All told in real time, no flash-backs. Even the way that Obi Won Kenobi's story unfolded was great. No hand-holding, no flashbacks or history lessons.

 

[icespide]

You know what a great origin story was? Luke Skywalker in Star Wars. All told in real time, no flash-backs. Even the way that Obi Won Kenobi's story unfolded was great. No hand-holding, no flashbacks or history lessons.

I've never considered Star Wars an origin story, that's a weird way to think about it

 

[shingi70]

You know what a great origin story was? Luke Skywalker in Star Wars. All told in real time, no flash-backs. Even the way that Obi Won Kenobi's story unfolded was great. No hand-holding, no flashbacks or history lessons.

Star wars wasn't a orgin story, the whole point is the audience was coming in at the middle of the story.

 

[mjc]

You know what a great origin story was? Luke Skywalker in Star Wars. All told in real time, no flash-backs. Even the way that Obi Won Kenobi's story unfolded was great. No hand-holding, no flashbacks or history lessons.

Truth. It has the mythos baked into it, you either strap in and absorb what's there or you get left behind.

In a way, I'd argue John Wick does a good job of that too. (Although to a lesser extent.)

 

[Schlorgan]

You know what a great origin story was? Luke Skywalker in Star Wars. All told in real time, no flash-backs. Even the way that Obi Won Kenobi's story unfolded was great. No hand-holding, no flashbacks or history lessons.

The opening title crawl was a history lesson.

 

[Pau]

Let's make the next Batman movie a Dick Grayson origin story instead. <3

It works on two levels: As Dick's origin story and we are introduced to Bruce and Gotham through Dick's eyes.

 

[Slayven]

We should never see Batman's parents getting killed again.

 

[RareFantasy64]

We should never see Batman's parents getting killed again.

But if we don't, how will the audience ever understand how Bruce became Batman?

 

[Slayven]

But if we don't, how will the audience ever understand how Bruce became Batman?

He sits underground ankle deep in bat poop playing with rubber suits. We will never know why he is batman

 

[Pau]

We should never see Batman's parents getting killed again.

For real.

 

[Schlorgan]

We should never see Batman's parents getting killed again.

So they should do a Flashpoint movie and see Bruce killed instead.

 

[- J - D -]

Let's make the next Batman movie a Dick Grayson origin story instead. <3

It works on two levels: As Dick's origin story and we are introduced to Bruce and Gotham through Dick's eyes.

We should never see Batman's parents getting killed again.

Yeah, it's about time we start seeing Dick's parents getting killed instead.

 

[Chained Prometheus]

We should never see Batman's parents getting killed again.

Honestly, that was something I really dug about The Lego Batman Movie.

Spoiler

Not just that we didn't see the Waynes get murdered again (though Bruce's family photo of the Waynes outside of Monarch Theater and with Crime Alley in the distance was cutting it close), but that the Graysons getting killed was totally skipped over and just introduced Dick from the get-go as an orphan.

 

[shira]

No.

You don't have to do it that way.

Origin movies are largely boring

Origin stories are largely boring.

Everyone in the world knows what the fuck a superhero is. You don't need to explain the concept to us for 80 minutes first. Much less build a whole movie around the superhero NOT being a superhero only to tell us he'll finally be the superhero we wanna watch in the second movie.

Just start at the second movie.

This shit isn't hard. Nobody's going to get lost if there's a Superman movie where Superman is just Superman at the beginning. Nobody's going to be hopelessly confused by a Batman movie where Batman's just Batman.

I disagree.

The problem is that China will be the bigger market and they didn't grow up with the origin stories.

 

[Poona]

Well if and when he does quit hopefully it's not a recast. I still can't get over Mark Ruffalo as the Hulk and Don Cheadle as James Rhodes (decisions that stuffed up the continuity, and the roles aren't even as big as Batman). Just get someone else to wear the cowl who isnt Bruce Wayne.

Either let Affleck come back as Bruce Wayne to die or hand the role to someone else in the bat family.

 

[Slayven]

If you ever have a chance read this

In it Batman finds out his parents were killed because Martha was helping to bring down a sexual exploration ring. He decides to pick up where she left off, it is a nice solid take on Batman dealing with something out of his depth.

The guy who wrote it was a lawyer specializing in representing abused children. It gets real, and not in a corny way like SVU

 

[Bobby Roberts]

The problem is that China will be the bigger market and they didn't grow up with the origin stories.

You don't need to grow up with the origin stories to understand a superhero.

Superheroes are not that fuckin' complicated. They aren't. No matter how hard adult fans try to make it seem.

Unless you're suggesting the entire country of China needs to have their hands held through concepts that are easily and instinctively understood by grade school children.

 

[Kickz]

It was all a ploy to drive up his asking price. Now he can demand whatever he wishes.

Needs to sign a deal where he pulls in 50% box office totals =P

 

[LosDaddie]

They really aren't, just make a good movie

Well yeah. A good, entertaining movie is what this medium is all about. It goes without saying.

Now, the first solo movies don't need to be entirely origin movies, but they should serve as a proper introduction to the character and their power set. Take Wonder Woman for example. Sure, she's recognizable to the masses, but do the masses know why her costume is red, white and blue? Do the masses know that she's made from clay? Do they know she can fly like Superman (because it wasn't shown in BvS)?

I tend to believe one of the reasons Civil War was so successful was because Marvel has invested the time & money building up these characters.

 

[Chained Prometheus]

If you ever have a chance read this

In it Batman finds out his parents were killed because Martha was helping to bring down a sexual exploration ring. He decides to pick up where she left off, it is a nice solid take on Batman dealing with something out of his depth.

The guy who wrote it was a lawyer specializing in representing abused children. It gets real, and not in a corny way like SVU

Oh man, I remember reading that book back in like 2005? I think I used to have a used copy of it, but I lost it ages ago. I definitely need to find another copy and re-read it, because I remember really liking that book.

 

[IconGrist]

It's all about making a continuity for the larger audience and making us like the characters behind the heroes. When I watched Superman Returns I didn't care AT ALL about this guy claiming to be Superman. Who is this? He came out of nowhere. I don't care about him. Ben Affleck's Batman came out of nowhere. I never saw him before, I don't know him, his motivations, what happened to him in this universe. I just don't care hence why I don't care about the movie either.

Making Origins movies are a must for making us relate to the characters. The excitement that comes after when we see them all coming together later is what made Avengers so great.

Superman Returns is a sequel to Superman The Movie and Superman II. It had a continuity.

 

[illmatic22]

We should never see Batman's parents getting killed again.

Yeah at this point everybody already knows the deal with his parents.

 

[LewieP]

You don't need to show the origin, but you need to establish the character, and an origin story is one of many ways to do that.

Establish what drives them, what their ideology is, their strengths and weaknesses etc.

Batman not really having an origin outside of that montage in BvS wasn't the real problem, poor characterisation was the real problem.

 

[Jeffolation]

Showing the origin of the Hulk during the opening credits in that otherwise awful Edward Norton movie was the only thing that movie did correctly.

 

[ArtHands]

You don't need to show the origin, but you need to establish the character, and an origin story is one of many ways to do that.

Establish what drives them, what their ideology is, their strengths and weaknesses etc.

Batman not really having an origin outside of that montage in BvS wasn't the real problem, poor characterisation was the real problem.

Well yah. An origin is more than just how the character obtain his power or what his power is. There are various incarnation of the character, different ideology and methods, the people around him etc. an origin movie will help establish that.

I think people who are asking for origin movies ain't really asking for scenes like the murder of Bruce parents. That's hardly the only thing that can introduce Batman. Even an ordinary solo movie of Batman going up against a villain can also serve as an origin story in the context of world building for a cinematic universe.

 

[LewieP]

Well yah. An origin is more than just how the character obtain his power or what his power is. There are various incarnation of the character, different ideology and methods, the people around him etc. an origin movie will help establish that.

I think people who are asking for origin movies ain't really asking for scenes like the murder of Bruce parents. That's hardly the only thing that can introduce Batman. Even an ordinary solo movie of Batman going up against a villain can also serve as an origin story in the context of world building for a cinematic universe.

Yeah. Batman Begins was the full package, but his decision not to join the league of shadows, and to ultimately stand up to Ra's al Ghul was as much a part of his origin as learning to punch and getting the Batmobile.

Edit: and to fight using fear, turning Scarecrow's tactics against him.

 

[FullMetalx117]

It's time for Batman Beyond. Hard to believe Warner Bros isn't exploiting this IP. I know Nolan wanted to.

 

[LewieP]

It's time for Batman Beyond. Hard to believe Warner Bros isn't exploiting this IP. I know Nolan wanted to.

I get the feeling they'd do Damian Wayne first, but yeah I'd love a Beyond movie.

Although it would work better as a direct follow on from an existing continuity. I guess they could get an aged Arnold Schwarzenegger to play a redeemed Victor Fries.

 

[RareFantasy64]

It's time for Batman Beyond. Hard to believe Warner Bros isn't exploiting this IP. I know Nolan wanted to.

Before the Nolan stuff was finalized, I remember hearing buzz about doing Batman Beyond inbetween Batman And Robin and Batman Begins

 

[rrc1594]

I get the feeling they'd do Damian Wayne first, but yeah I'd love a Beyond movie.

Although it would work better as a direct follow on from an existing continuity. I guess they could get an aged Arnold Schwarzenegger to play a redeemed Victor Fries.

Only if he still does puns

Real talk Batman and Robin is like my 5th fav Batman movie

 

[Japanmanx3]

We should never see Batman's parents getting killed again.

THIS THIS THIS

 

[Ralemont]

I like it. I love sections of it. I feel it's a step down in quality from BB and TDK but I wouldn't think someone is crazy for thinking it is just as good if not better than the first two

BB is more consistent, but I find it much less rewatchable due to not having as high of highs as TDKR.

I also think the Bane voice is pretty much the greatest thing ever, so there's that.

 

[Ushay]

I generally disliked BvS (despite excellent fight scenes), quite liked Suicide Squad.

But I have to say, Ben Affleck was easily the BEST part of those movies, which makes me eager to see his solo movie. If he bails, that IS the centre of the DCEU strategy gone.

It will be legit reboot time.

Spoiler

I'm calling bullshit,

 

[SargerusBR]

No.

You don't have to do it that way.

Origin movies are largely boring

Origin stories are largely boring.

Everyone in the world knows what the fuck a superhero is. You don't need to explain the concept to us for 80 minutes first. Much less build a whole movie around the superhero NOT being a superhero only to tell us he'll finally be the superhero we wanna watch in the second movie.

Just start at the second movie.

This shit isn't hard. Nobody's going to get lost if there's a Superman movie where Superman is just Superman at the beginning. Nobody's going to be hopelessly confused by a Batman movie where Batman's just Batman.

For popular characters I agree, they can easily go the Incredible Hulk route, with quick flashbacks at the beginning of the movie. However the same doesn't apply to less known characters like Captain Marvel or Moon Knight.

 

[norm9]

Isthere anymore frank miller material to use?

For popular characters I agree, they can easily go the Incredible Hulk route, with quick flashbacks at the beginning of the movie. However the same doesn't apply to less known characters like Captain Marvel or MoonMoon Knight.

Might be a minority opinion, but Watchmen did a fine job of just having flash backs when a character is by themselves during a monolog or whatever to introduce their backstory. This would work with Cyborg and even Aquapam if it's succinct as it was with The Comedian, etc. Just quick edits and explain their story quick.

 

[OléGunner]

Has this wonderful news been corroborated by anyone else who is reputable?
I should've added to my earlier posts that I hope Affleck takes Leto with him if he leaves.

Both unfit for the role but especially the latter.

Edit: Caught up reading the thread, still no official news. Here's to hope!

 

[Staf]

You know an origin story I wouldn't mind? A Superman one. I know MOS was recent but it's so divisive. You know who should direct the next Superman movie? Joss Whedon. He nailed Cap in Avengers 1. He knows how to do the vanilla boy scout. I want Whedon to do a Superman movie so bad

I'd kill for a Joss Whedon Superman movie.