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Mister Wolf
Member
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
In theory yes.
alstrike
Member
splattered
Member
I still hope it is targeting at least 1440p 60fps.
Nope because 20 CU's clocked at 1.6GHz is 4.096TF
Dural
Member
You ever heard of the car industry? Countless magazines, websites, television stations, and YouTube channels used to promote new products.
too much eslim
Member
It's actually not weaker. RDNA2 make it stronger than last gen GCN.
tryDEATH
Member
Apple and Google are already going with the same strategy that MS is going to utilize for next generation by offering a premium device and a budget devices. Price points matter, same reason PS went with a disc less version.
jakinov
Member
It's not exactly weaker. in a real-world workload it would be "stronger". I researched the topic after people on this board mentioned it to me before. But TFLOPS is a theoretical calculation/measurement of how much the GPU can do in a second. In practice because there's so many parts involved you don't actually get that level of performance. Even if the GPU is rated for that performance you aren't going to get it.
An analogy would be if you were to measure how fast two people can take an item and put it on the shelf in the correct place. i.e. stock it.
Person A stocks 500 items/minute.
Person B stocks 700 items/minute.
That's their theoretical peak performance. In the real-world, the store layout, need to go fetch boxes, have people in your way, or have to deal with random things; you aren't going to be able to stock items that fast. Basically there's factors where you aren't going to be able to stock as fast as your theoretical peak performance. As you aren't just going to be able to stand still and stock the same thing over and over again.
So in a
Person A stocks 250 items/minute.
Person B stocks 350 items/minute.
But if you made these two workers work at Store XYZ with a more efficient layout that gives you 30% of your theoretical:
Person A stocks 350 items/minute.
Person B stocks 490 items/minute.
Person A working at Store XYZ performs just as well as Person B working at Store ABC, despite Person B being faster. So given the
The numbers I picked and using percentages are all arbitrary just to illustrate the idea of how a machine that's rated to have less performance in terms of FLOPS can actually perform better.
Even Mark Cerny says the same thing:
Mister Wolf
Member
Yes. Having the same CPU and SSD ensures that there wont be a bottleneck on that side holding it back.
Bryank75
Banned
Sure, I'm mostly just trying to have a back and forth with you guys.... it's just a bit of fun. I know that you guys will get an Xbox and I am not trying to convince anyone otherwise or say it's a bad choice. I'm glad the choice is there.
As I said in a later post, I think a small portable device that works in a car would be awesome.... something that plugs into your cars usb or power-point and can use an ipad.
MastaKiiLA
Member
It's just speculation at this point, but it seems Microsoft has an interesting strategy this gen. It seems entirely built upon market share with a 2 pronged approach. XSS to build userbase, with XSX to deliver high end gaming. The XSS users then naturally migrate to XSX with compatibility. I still think having xCloud as an option on XSS would provide a good bridge for users who don't have the budget for XSX now. But if we're talking about a 7 year cycle again, that's time for the teens to grow into better means.
I can't lie, I'm intrigued. I'll be getting a PS5, but if this is the route MS is truly going down, I can see myself actually becoming a multiplatform gamer for the first time. I spend more on e-cigs and online movies every month than the projected cost of an XSS, so the investment if relatively low. Hopefully we hear more this weekend, because this could be a game changer.
I can't lie, I'm intrigued. I'll be getting a PS5, but if this is the route MS is truly going down, I can see myself actually becoming a multiplatform gamer for the first time. I spend more on e-cigs and online movies every month than the projected cost of an XSS, so the investment if relatively low. Hopefully we hear more this weekend, because this could be a game changer.
This is genius move by Microsoft.
Nowadays everything has options
You can get a premium smartphone or a lite version.
You can have Netflix in 4K, HD or SD with different price points.
With these consoles having PC like architecture it makes sense for Microsoft to release a cheaper HD option. Some people even with 4K TVs won't give a shit and buy this. Going with a smaller GPU, smaller console size, save on cooling and PSU and disk drive we can have a system that's atleast $150 cheaper than the Series X. They can reach different market early on instead of people waiting for a price drop. And in the future it can be even cheaper.
Nowadays everything has options
You can get a premium smartphone or a lite version.
You can have Netflix in 4K, HD or SD with different price points.
With these consoles having PC like architecture it makes sense for Microsoft to release a cheaper HD option. Some people even with 4K TVs won't give a shit and buy this. Going with a smaller GPU, smaller console size, save on cooling and PSU and disk drive we can have a system that's atleast $150 cheaper than the Series X. They can reach different market early on instead of people waiting for a price drop. And in the future it can be even cheaper.
Jonsoncao
Banned
Yup. That's why you replied to this thread
This Bryank75 guy is actually an Xbot, he has been playing this retard card since the reveal. He constantly (not sure if intentional) exposes his cognitive capacity in other threads, e.g., insinuating that the cellphone tower emitting electromagnetic waves that are in the radio frequency could cause cancer. Then, in many Xbox threads, he is likely to post something irrelevant or exposing his ignorance in graphical tech. As someone who only owns PS4 this gen, I refused to believe that someone like this guy loves the same console.
diffusionx
Gold Member
It's not exactly weaker. in a real-world workload it would be "stronger". I researched the topic after people on this board mentioned it to me before. But TFLOPS is a theoretical calculation/measurement of how much the GPU can do in a second. In practice because there's so many parts involved you don't actually get that level of performance. Even if the GPU is rated for that performance you aren't going to get it.
An analogy would be if you were to measure how fast two people can take an item and put it on the shelf in the correct place. i.e. stock it.
Person A stocks 500 items/minute.
Person B stocks 700 items/minute.
That's their theoretical peak performance. In the real-world, the store layout, need to go fetch boxes, have people in your way, or have to deal with random things; you aren't going to be able to stock items that fast. Basically there's factors where you aren't going to be able to stock as fast as your theoretical peak performance. As you aren't just going to be able to stand still and stock the same thing over and over again.
So in areal gamereal store, lets call it Store ABC, lets say you only get 50% of your theoretical so:
Person A stocks 250 items/minute.
Person B stocks 350 items/minute.
But if you made these two workers work at Store XYZ with a more efficient layout that gives you 30% of your theoretical:
Person A stocks 350 items/minute.
Person B stocks 490 items/minute.
Person A working at Store XYZ performs just as well as Person B working at Store ABC, despite Person B being faster. So given thearchitecture of your GPUlayout of the store, you can get more performance out of person through just being more efficient with what you have already.
The numbers I picked and using percentages are all arbitrary just to illustrate the idea of how a machine that's rated to have less performance in terms of FLOPS can actually perform better.
Even Mark Cerny says the same thing:
Not just that, but they’re also likely doing different things. The One X is sold as a “4K” version of the Xbox One. I know it rarely hits that but that’s how it is sold as a better One, with a premium price. This Lockhart will likely be sold as a ”1080p” version of the Series X, and as such has a different goal, different market, different customer base, etc. It’s not really comparable to the One X, but the One S, and is obviously a massive improvement.
Jigsaah
Gold Member
I'm not really interested in the Series S, but I can see how this would other people who aren't willing to toss $500 at next gen or maybe people who prefer Playstation but don't hate Xbox, this may be a good option for them.
I can see it now though. If Xbox does lead in sales, Sony fans will say it's because of the Series S and Sony still wins because they are selling less systems but at a higher price so more profit for them or some other type of word vomit.
I can see it now though. If Xbox does lead in sales, Sony fans will say it's because of the Series S and Sony still wins because they are selling less systems but at a higher price so more profit for them or some other type of word vomit.
DavidGzz
Member
The One X outputs at 4k.
People who don't get who it's for must not have kids. I don't want to spend $500 on two consoles this holiday if I can get an S for less. My daughter does not have a 4k tv in her room. Lil Timmy won't care that his XSS cannot push 4k this Christmas. If you don't give a shit about it, ignore it or keep showing your level of concern by being hyperbolic about how "weak" it is. It scares your inner fanboy for MS to have this option available, amirite?
Btw, my last few sentences are meant for people dogpiling on the XSS, not for the person I quoted here.
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freefornow
Gold Member
Tom Warren reading some of the posts in this thread
Jigsaah
Gold Member
namekuseijin
Banned
excuse me
can someone enlighten me why Ms wants to go down to PS4 Pro level when they have Xbox one x?
or are these 4TF superior to that 4TF meaning that TF figures are meaningless?
Jigsaah
Gold Member
It has the same CPU as the Xbox Series X and the GPU has less Ram, I believe. The Teraflops don't tell the whole story. PS4 Pro/Xbox One X Teraflops are not comparable to Next Gen Teraflops
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
If priced right this thing could fly off the shelves. The specs are shaping up to be better than expected.
MasterCornholio
Member
I'm not sure why there's some people who are looking at the teraflop count but not taking into consideration that it's GCN vs RDNA2 or Jaguar vs Zen 2.
The truth is the Xbox Series S is more powerful than the Xbox One S. Heck it's CPU is vastly superior and should allow for experiences not possible on the One X.
I do agree that as a next gen console it does seem weak and it won't be as capable as it's bigger brother. Not only with resolution but some graphical effects will have to be turned down as well. Maybe even the framerate will take a hit with some games. But what isn't true is that it's weaker than the Xbox One X.
The truth is the Xbox Series S is more powerful than the Xbox One S. Heck it's CPU is vastly superior and should allow for experiences not possible on the One X.
I do agree that as a next gen console it does seem weak and it won't be as capable as it's bigger brother. Not only with resolution but some graphical effects will have to be turned down as well. Maybe even the framerate will take a hit with some games. But what isn't true is that it's weaker than the Xbox One X.
FeldMonster
Member
Because the Series X is going to be 1200p (4x the pixels of 600p)? That is both rather low, and a very strange resolution (non-integer HZ resolution). I don't think you understand how the TF difference of the GPUs work.
DrScissorsMD
Banned
Starting to thinking a lot of people on this forum are in assisted living with live-in carers, given how the concept of regular people being able to differentiate between two products and buy the right one is difficult for them.
01011001
Banned
how often does it need to be said that a 4TF RDNA2 GPU is not only faster when playing the same code as the One X's GPU, but also has more modern features the One X could not even display without a massive performance penalty
Katajx
Gold Member
Poorly chosen words. My bad. Let’s break this down into simpler terms. If the Series S winds up getting ports like the switch does, I’m not taking that upgrade. That’s MY OPINION as a current Xbox owner.
I want to see what the developers actually use that increased performance for. Not the benchmark performance of what it COULD do.
Salty Popsicle
Banned
Xbox Series X = Play next-gen games at 4K and no CPU limitations. ($500 to $600)
Xbox Series S = Play next-gen games at 1080p to 1440p and no CPU limitations. ($300 to $400)
Xbox One X = Play next-gen games at 1800p to 4K with CPU based compromises (slowly phased out) ($250 to $300)
Xbox One S = Play next gen games at 900p to 1080p with CPU based compromises (quickly phased out) ($200)
Xbox Series S = Play next-gen games at 1080p to 1440p and no CPU limitations. ($300 to $400)
Xbox One X = Play next-gen games at 1800p to 4K with CPU based compromises (slowly phased out) ($250 to $300)
Xbox One S = Play next gen games at 900p to 1080p with CPU based compromises (quickly phased out) ($200)
xStoyax
Banned
I watched this earlier & it lays out a pretty strong argument for Lockhart doing more than 1080p
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AllBizness
Banned
I remember when he tweeted PS5 was going to be 13tf fun times
longdi
Banned
And a year later, you can always upsize with a new series x, and all your older games are playable with higher res graphics! Now you have 2 consoles to use around your place.
Katajx
Gold Member
I could be wrong, but I thought the Cyberpunk 2077 bundle was an XB1X?
sendit
Member
I think this is a genius move by Microsoft if they price it right. At $299 or even better $249 it might be a easier buy for a good portion of the dual console folks picking up a PS5 this holiday. 1080p tvs have been pretty much mass market for the last 15 years so there are plenty of them still out there. I also believe they are going to make a big deal about framerates. This would be a perfect match to the plethora of inexpensive 1080p gaming monitors out there.
MasterCornholio
Member
I'm thinking more like a console like form factor rather than a portable.
TheCrimsnFuckr
Member
Well, the 4TF are superior to the 4TF of the PS4 Pro because the Lockhart GPU will be RDNA 2 and will thus get more performance per TF as well as have the technologies of VRS, RT, and all the other stuff with RDNA2, so for gaming the performance is going to be much greater.
The reality is that the Lockhart GPU will likely be close to X1X levels of performance, however I doubt that it will run the X1X versions of games as the Lockhart is meant to be a 1080p/1440p system compared to the XSX and X1X which are 4k systems.
They absolutely could have made the Lockhart GPU powerful enough to run the X1X versions of games but as the X1X is a wide and slow system (more CUs at a lower clockspeed compared to the next gen consoles' less CUs at higher clocks) it would have required Lockhart to not only be more expensive to make (more CUs means more money) but also would have made it harder to optimize games for (game code will likely be designed around higher clocked GPUs as both XSX and PS5 have high clocked GPUs and since Lockhart is only supposed to be a 1080p/1440p system, it made more sense to make it run just the X1S versions of games. But maybe they will pull off some magic and make it run X1X, but I doubt it
DigitalScrap
Member
It was. And it sold out quickly. They've since ceased production.
https://www.xbox.com/en-US/consoles/all-consoles#xbox-one-x
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UnravelKatharsis
Gold Member
Well let's change that. I have two ps4 pros. And one is a 500 mil edition. And they are both hooked up on different floors.
The thing about the lockheart is that if it's for casual gamers or for parents not wanting to spend 500 on a console, why not just stick with the xbox 1S? Can probably get one for 100 if you dont already have one. Wait a year or two and get a lockheart when it's even cheaper.
UnravelKatharsis
Gold Member
This is what I don't get. For the past couple of years M.S. and Xbox fans have been boasting about console generations being over, forward compatibility etc... Now all of a sudden console generations matter again? This is one heck of an about face.
