-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Toonami |Mar15| the smartest anime is back!
- Thread starter Seda
- Start date
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
Gucci Messiah
Banned
Another reminder that Accel World is a way better story than SAO, and in terms of anime, has a better artstyle aswell.
art is subjective but lol at the story being better. that's like saying drinking piss is better than drinking blood.
So yeah, this is one of the parts that particularly makes this franchise unsalvageable even if they managed to make Emmy-worthy writing on future episodes. So long how the first part ended remains canon instead of retconing to living fuck out of it, this franchise is going to remain absolutely tarnished (which it always been but I hope you get what I'm saying).Sword Art Online Episode 14: The End of the World
In which the show ends I guess
Episode opens with the group beating that boss from last episode. Apparently 14 people died. People start despairing because there are still 25 floors left, when Kirito notices that Heathcliff's HP still never dropped out of the green. He swiftly attacks Heathcliff, stabbing him with his sword...
IMMORTAL OBJECT
Welp.
So apparently it turns out that Heathcliff is actually the guy who created SAO and locked them all in this virtual world. Because as Kirito says "Nothing is more boring than just watching someone else play an RPG," which is what the audience has been doing this whole time so thanks for telling us your anime is boring I guess. The reason Heathcliff is so badass is that he was literally cheating. So Heathcliff paralyzes everyone except Kirito and challenges him to a duel right here right now, with the immortality disabled, and if he wins the game is cleared. Kirito says goodbye to everyone and makes Heathcliff promise to I guess change the game so it's impossible for Asuna to commit suicide after he dies. She cries about how that's not fair.
Kirito fights hard but is about to lose, before Asuna manages to jump in front of him at the last second and take the killing blow to save him. Despite the fact that she was paralyzed. Tearful goodbye, then Asuna dies/shatters like everyone in SAO. Heathcliff says "well never seen a player just randomly un-paralyze themselves but I guess things just happen sometimes". Kirito weakly tries to attack Heathcliff again, picking up Asuna's sword instead of his broken one, and gets stabbed in the gut for his trouble. Kirito's HP goes to zero, the UI tells him he's dead and he shatters...
Then he just says "not yet" and the pieces re-form into a like a force ghost or some shit and he uses Asuna's sword to kill Heathcliff.
Because apparently willing yourself back to life is a thing you can do in this game.
Fuck.
Anyway, then Kirito and Heathcliff both shatter. Game cleared.
The world starts dissolving, and Kirito and Asuna find themselves on some kind of plane above the game world, with the game's creator. The players who were alive have woken up, but the dead people are still dead because people die when they are killed. I mean, except Kirito apparently. They have some kind of conversation where they try to make the villain sympathetic way too late, talking about some dream he had about a castle in the sky, then he disappears. Kirito and Asuna have more tearful goodbyes as they prepare to die, they tell each other their real names for the first time, and the world ends as everything fades to white...
Kirito wakes up in a hospital bed hooked up to IVs and stuff, with his body looking frail. He stands up, says "Asuna", and starts walking out of the hospital. A hospital in which no one is around including doctors or nurses, and there is no activity despite thousands of people suddenly awakening from comas. He walks down the hallway to find his lost love as the credits roll and the music plays.
So stupid. So, SO stupid.
It's like they forgot the main plot for like ten episodes and went "well shit let's just end it this guy is the final boss gooooo".
And then had a bullshit self-resurrection scene despite the fact that if you remember the show has previously established a one-time use resurrection item that you can use within ten seconds of death, and Klein had the item.
Apparently there are more episodes after this soooo, I guess next we find out if Kirito finds his bae.
Doctor Decimate
Member
I have heard that Kirito willing himself back to life in episode 14 is actually just him shaking himself out of what he imagines is going to happen next.
Of course, if that's what it's supposed to be then the show is completely, mind-bogglingly incompetent when it comes to portraying that.
Of course, if that's what it's supposed to be then the show is completely, mind-bogglingly incompetent when it comes to portraying that.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
To play devil's advocate since the whole thing is literally a simulation plugged into their minds, it wouldnt be jumping the shark per say if kirito willed himself back to life aslong as he thought he could.
BassForever
Member
Maybe Kirito was the game creator THE WHOLE TIME
Now that would have been a great Aizen esque twist
Doctor Decimate
Member
To play devil's advocate since the whole thing is literally a simulation plugged into their minds, it wouldnt be jumping the shark per say if kirito willed himself back to life aslong as he thought he could.
I disagree since it's also a video game and video games have pretty rigid rules about all this, but even if I didn't then that would be something that needs to be established in advance with a lower-stakes situation or something. It can't just come up at the end because then it just feels cheap.
To play devil's advocate since the whole thing is literally a simulation plugged into their minds, it wouldnt be jumping the shark per say if kirito willed himself back to life aslong as he thought he could.
That's only if you ignore the rules set forth for the game, it's totally bullshit. The show jumped the shark long before that though.
BassForever
Member
Maybe the Yui item had a passive second wind ability, which kicked in and gave him a last bit of hp after his death.
UltraGunner
Banned
Why are we trying to make sense of this damn series? Everything exists to make Kirito look cool. That's the long and short of it.
Why are we trying to make sense of this damn series? Everything exists to make Kirito look cool. That's the long and short of it.
We're trying to figure out what people see in it.
What prompted a man to write an article calling it the "smartest anime in years" and publish it on a site that gets millions of hits.
UltraGunner
Banned
We're trying to figure out what people see in it.
What prompted a man to write an article calling it the "smartest anime in years" and publish it on a site that gets millions of hits.
The Earth is a scary and irrational place. Nothing but bad things happen to the people living on it. That's why SAO is popular.
Why are we trying to make sense of this damn series? Everything exists to make Kirito look cool. That's the long and short of it.
That's my biggest complaint with the series. Kirito is portrayed as this badass who can always win and gets all the girls but none of it is ever earned. It's just a straight up power-fantasy.
Judging by the trailer for SAO II, it looks like nothing has changed. Now even the Japanese government wants to lick his shoes.
No the show literally shows him shattering and then it shows him coalescing back into shape with a yellow light, and for the rest of the fight he looks half transparent like a force ghost.I have heard that Kirito willing himself back to life in episode 14 is actually just him shaking himself out of what he imagines is going to happen next.
Of course, if that's what it's supposed to be then the show is completely, mind-bogglingly incompetent when it comes to portraying that.
And again THE SHOW HAD A PREVIOUSLY ESTABLISHED RESURRECTION ITEM THAT WENT COMPLETELY UNUSED IN THIS SCENARIO, DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE HOLDER OF THE ITEM WAS TWENTY FEET AWAY!
Hell if you wanted to be cheesy, your world is an MMO! Invoke the power of teamwork and have Kirito's friends will themselves free so they can use the item! That would have made more sense than what we got, even thematically!
The fact that the show pretty much tried to poorly "redeem" a mass murderer
and have him forget his entire reason for doing the stuff he did was the crowning achievement of the shit sandwich that was that episode. The most mindblowing part is that it arguably isn't even the worst moment in the series!
and continues to do so later in the show
No the show literally shows him shattering and then it shows him coalescing back into shape with a yellow light, and for the rest of the fight he looks half transparent like a force ghost.
And again THE SHOW HAD A PREVIOUSLY ESTABLISHED RESURRECTION ITEM THAT WENT COMPLETELY UNUSED IN THIS SCENARIO, DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE HOLDER OF THE ITEM WAS TWENTY FEET AWAY!
Hell if you wanted to be cheesy, your world is an MMO! Invoke the power of teamwork and have Kirito's friends will themselves free so they can use the item! That would have made more sense than what we got, even thematically!
The bold is what pains me the most about that moment. There was no need for bullshit, the Chekhov's gun was right there! All they had to do was pull the trigger! They couldn't even get that right!
I always noticed this in anime, but why do they always try to make the villain more "redeemable"
Theres a level of making the villain more complex and give him motivations, but at the same time, dude literalky is satan, why are you trying to make me care for satan, and not ven well at that point.
I generally dont mind a character whos lawful good and does things because he's good, and at the same time, I dont mind villains who are just evil, and sometimes, villains need to just be evil.
Theres a level of making the villain more complex and give him motivations, but at the same time, dude literalky is satan, why are you trying to make me care for satan, and not ven well at that point.
I generally dont mind a character whos lawful good and does things because he's good, and at the same time, I dont mind villains who are just evil, and sometimes, villains need to just be evil.
The only anime villain in recent times that I felt was "redeemable" done right was (HxH 2011 spoilers).Meruem
That's because Togashi is BASED. That shit made me feel things bro.
If you guys got access to Xbox Video, Dragonball Z: Battle of Gods (Dubbed) is free to watch this weekend.
http://video.xbox.com/featured-movi...N_SOCIAL_Twitter&cid=EVERGREEN_SOCIAL_Twitter
http://video.xbox.com/featured-movi...N_SOCIAL_Twitter&cid=EVERGREEN_SOCIAL_Twitter
I think the US is guilty of doing that as well with stuff like Wicked & Maleficent. "OH, these villains weren't ALWAYS bad! See, they were good once, but stuff made them turn evil!"
I gotta agree with Jarate. There's times where knowing about a villain's backstory works, but other times, I just want a guy to be bad because screw the rules, he's bad for the sake of it. We don't need to know their "motivations" or whatever.
I mean, there's a manga where HITLER FIGHTS BOTH PRESIDENT BUSHES, THE POPE, & THE JAPANESE PRIME MINISTER IN A GAME OF MAHJONG. HITLER NEEDS NO MOTIVATIONS.
I gotta agree with Jarate. There's times where knowing about a villain's backstory works, but other times, I just want a guy to be bad because screw the rules, he's bad for the sake of it. We don't need to know their "motivations" or whatever.
I mean, there's a manga where HITLER FIGHTS BOTH PRESIDENT BUSHES, THE POPE, & THE JAPANESE PRIME MINISTER IN A GAME OF MAHJONG. HITLER NEEDS NO MOTIVATIONS.
ALSO HITLER BECOMES SUPER SAIYAN. & THERE ARE MOON NAZIS.
Looks like it gives you 2 weeks, since it says for me "expires in 14 days". Yay, hope to fit the time in to rewatch this.If you guys got access to Xbox Video, Dragonball Z: Battle of Gods (Dubbed) is free to watch this weekend.
http://video.xbox.com/featured-movi...N_SOCIAL_Twitter&cid=EVERGREEN_SOCIAL_Twitter
BassForever
Member
Every villain can't be Luca Blight from Suikoden 2 guys, you generally need to give your villain some kind of reasonable motivation for why they're doing the things they do. What I always found weird about SAO is that in the very first episode the villain says "I did this so I could play god in a world of my creation" and that's basically what he does as Heathcliff. Why everyone in story forgets this at the end is really strange.
Every villain can't be Luca Blight from Suikoden 2 guys, you generally need to give your villain some kind of reasonable motivation for why they're doing the things they do. What I always found weird about SAO is that in the very first episode the villain says "I did this so I could play god in a world of my creation" and that's basically what he does as Heathcliff. Why everyone in story forgets this at the end is really strange.
Because a few others were God tier too?
Schadenfreude
Member
Do you guys think Satsuki could achieve spiral power if she were in the Gurren Lagann universe?
Imperial Bishop
Banned
Are we starting another best anime villain discussion? >.>
I'm impressed anyone can get through Xenosaga without falling asleep.
I tried to play it once... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I'm impressed anyone can get through Xenosaga without falling asleep.
I tried to play it once... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Oh yeah the series in general super tiresome. Episode 3 is really the only 'good' game. Still a fan of Albedo though.
BassForever
Member
I think you mean Hellsing, as the Drifters manga is still ongoing and the odds of this anime adaptation having a gecko ending are high.
AW YEAH HELLSING ULTIMATE COMING BACK TO TOOooohh wait it's not that at all.....
UltraGunner
Banned
I think you mean Hellsing, as the Drifters manga is still ongoing and the odds of this anime adaptation having a gecko ending are high.
I use Hellsing Ultimate b/c it looks to be designed by the same studio with the same character designer.
The thing is, a villain with a memorable backstory and justification (which is not the same as redemption) tends to be more memorable because it makes them more relateable and human. Most of the most liked villains throughout fictional history are written like this. Even most of the worst amongst us throughout history have had loved ones, things they cared about, etc. People who do bad things IRL rarely think of themselves as bad people. So its no surprise that many writers go this route.
Of course, making a well rounded villain is HARD so a lot of writers fuck it up. It's just a matter if you want to aim high or aim low. Mustache-twirlers tend to be boring honestly unless they really ham it up. I feel in a lot of mainstream Western fiction they like to have one note villains but they don't inject enough ham into them to be fun so they end up boring (more true of cartoons than comics). Notable exceptions of course include guys like the Joker who is ham incarnate (in addition to being twisted as fuck). Thinking about it further, a lot of Batman villains fall into the more "well rounded" category but are overall well written - probably a good reason why Batman's rouge gallery is so good. Spiderman rouge gallery too to a lesser degree. Xanatos from Gargoyles is another standout. Aku from Samurai Jack was a pretty good, hammy villain though Mako's VA work really sold it. RIP Mako.
Obviously? She has the most swag out of like anybody in that show.
Of course, making a well rounded villain is HARD so a lot of writers fuck it up. It's just a matter if you want to aim high or aim low. Mustache-twirlers tend to be boring honestly unless they really ham it up. I feel in a lot of mainstream Western fiction they like to have one note villains but they don't inject enough ham into them to be fun so they end up boring (more true of cartoons than comics). Notable exceptions of course include guys like the Joker who is ham incarnate (in addition to being twisted as fuck). Thinking about it further, a lot of Batman villains fall into the more "well rounded" category but are overall well written - probably a good reason why Batman's rouge gallery is so good. Spiderman rouge gallery too to a lesser degree. Xanatos from Gargoyles is another standout. Aku from Samurai Jack was a pretty good, hammy villain though Mako's VA work really sold it. RIP Mako.
Do you guys think Satsuki could achieve spiral power if she were in the Gurren Lagann universe?
Obviously? She has the most swag out of like anybody in that show.
I think you mean Hellsing, as the Drifters manga is still ongoing and the odds of this anime adaptation having a gecko ending are high.
That's when Drifters Ultimate will be made when Hirano stops being a lazy ass and gives the series a sense of endgame.
The original Hellsing manga had 95 chapters. It ran in a monthly magazine. That's about 8 years. Yet the manga ran for 12 years due to a shitload of breaks.
On a similar note: Had Hunter x Hunter been scheduled normally (349 chapters in a weekly magazine with at least 48 issues a year), it would have gotten to the current point in 2007 or 2008. Good job Togashi!
Imperial Bishop
Banned
Do you guys think Satsuki could achieve spiral power if she were in the Gurren Lagann universe?
Rumor has it that
KLK and GL take place in the same universe.
Waiting for the 10-part OVA.
The thing is, a villain with a memorable backstory and justification (which is not the same as redemption) tends to be more memorable because it makes them more relateable and human. Most of the most liked villains throughout fictional history are written like this. Even most of the worst amongst us throughout history have had loved ones, things they cared about, etc. People who do bad things IRL rarely think of themselves as bad people. So its no surprise that many writers go this route.
Of course, making a well rounded villain is HARD so a lot of writers fuck it up. It's just a matter if you want to aim high or aim low. Mustache-twirlers tend to be boring honestly unless they really ham it up. I feel in a lot of mainstream Western fiction they like to have one note villains but they don't inject enough ham into them to be fun so they end up boring (more true of cartoons than comics). Notable exceptions of course include guys like the Joker who is ham incarnate (in addition to being twisted as fuck). Thinking about it further, a lot of Batman villains fall into the more "well rounded" category but are overall well written - probably a good reason why Batman's rouge gallery is so good. Spiderman rouge gallery too to a lesser degree. Xanatos from Gargoyles is another standout. Aku from Samurai Jack was a pretty good, hammy villain though Mako's VA work really sold it. RIP Mako.
I love hammy villains.
A villain who can chew up the scenery and keep the viewer entertained easily jumps up on my villain score board. It's why I enjoy characters like the Joker or Dio Brando. They get a kick out of being evil assholes and deranged madmen and don't want you to feel sorry for them at all.
Speaking of well written villains, the current villain in the One Piece manga is the best written one in the series.
This is true. A good example of a well rounded and hammy antagonist.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
Htown you forgot to note that the villain forgot the motivation for his actions
To be fair, Kayaba is not an absolutely awful portrayal of a sociopath. How the other characters talk about him on the other hand....
BassForever
Member
Any kind of villain can be compelling if they're written well from "could have been a good guy if circumstances were different" to "completely evil monster" and all other kinds of villains. You can think of memorable examples of all of them and you can think of many more failed examples. If you're ever planning to create a story for any format nailing your villain has to be the first thing you perfect as without a strong objective for the good guys to overcome the story won't have the right kind of impact it deserves.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
Speaking of well written villains, the current villain in the One Piece manga is the best written one in the series.
That's probably because he's the most fleshed out.
To be fair, Kayaba is not an absolutely awful portrayal of a sociopath. How the other characters talk about him on the other hand....
This immensely bugged me.
"Sure Kayaba orchestrated the deaths of 4000 people... but he sure changed MMORPGs for the better!"
That would be like saying "Sure Stalin orchestrated the death of millions... but he made mustaches fashionable!"
This immensely bugged me.
"Sure Kayaba orchestrated the deaths of 4000 people... but he sure changed MMORPGs for the better!"
That would be like saying "Sure Stalin orchestrated the death of millions... but he made mustaches fashionable!"
There's a really good Nazi joke in here, but I'm not gonna make it. Shooting fish in a barrel.
Needless to say that entire show is offensive to me on a deep and painful level.
There's a really good Nazi joke in here, but I'm not gonna make it. Shooting fish in a barrel.
Needless to say that entire show is offensive to me on a deep and painful level.
I was avoiding Godwin's law on purpose. I had something but I thought "... Naaaah"
UltraGunner
Banned
This immensely bugged me.
"Sure Kayaba orchestrated the deaths of 4000 people... but he sure changed MMORPGs for the better!"
That would be like saying "Sure Stalin orchestrated the death of millions... but he made mustaches fashionable!"
"Say what you will about that Mussolini, at least he made the trains run on time!"
Speaking of well written villains, the current villain in the One Piece manga is the best written one in the series.
My man
- Status
- Not open for further replies.