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Total War: Rome 2 |OT| I Came, I Saw, I Came
- Thread starter Lingitiz
- Start date
Chance Hale
Member
Well the campaign map now hovers around the 30s and 50s depending on where it is as compared to the frequent drops to 20 or less before. Still pretty terrible though, but baby steps!
Countdown to Rome 2's REAL launch: 3 months. Get hyped everyone!
Baby steps indeed...
Atraveller
Banned
CA mentioned they will overhaul parts of the game, hope that involves the political system and naval battles.
Perhaps a relaunch?
It would be funny and awful big of them to admit to the problems (compared to saying 2% of users are having issues that it's still 2% too much). I wish they clarified on what they're overhauling unless I missed that. Have you seen any other good info from CA? I've mostly been on the mod forum so I'm missing things that aren't posted here...lol
It's just hard for all sides because it's a series we're all so passionate about and a game that had us hyped all year waiting for launch just to have it deflated by issues and design decisions. I think ALL of us would have accepted at least a few months delay if it gave us a better experience at launch. We expect issues for a TW game launch thanks to TW's history, but not to this level and not outside of performance issues and bugs for the most part.
I can see the good things in this game and it's hurts me that much more to have those good things overshadowed by some of the overwhelmingly bad things. The design problems are evident even in the UI where things that finally came together in Shogun 2 are now back to being a pain in the ass and a semi-complex system but with a streamlined UI is now a system with broken or annoying mechanics with plenty of issues that's ALSO accompanied by an annoying UI that is more complex to do the same things you could do easily in Shogun 2.
I have faith that this game can turn around, but they really shot themselves in the foot (with a javelin) by launching in this state. I actually feel bad for them when I think about how many sales they lost already just by word of mouth when they could have had a better following right away if they just released a little later. The "will wait for sale" crowd is definitely justified for this one.
I'm just getting overly depressed with some of my hardcore PC titles that insist on launching earlier than they should. Between this and ArmA 3, I've never had so many mood swings and love/hate moments each night in gaming. At least Rome 2 came with all modes at launch...LOL
Atraveller
Banned
No, they have not mentioned which part will they overhaul, but that have commented saying Rome 2's launch was "unacceptable", so they do realize it's a horrible launch.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
You make some good points. I haven't played Rome II yet but from what I hear they've incorporated generals as a requirement to manage any portion of your army. Instead of focusing on stats of individual units, a possible direction they could take in the future is having you choose between appointing different generals based on how they'd manage your army on a more micro level, and the different skills or tactical strength and weaknesses each general would bring to the table. Mixing and matching between an arsenal of generals and different branches of your armies could then add replayability as well.
I do think there should be room for some low level management as I find one of the interesting qualities of warfare in the old world was how occasionally small scale technological advancements ended up becoming full blown strategic advantages due to the less even pace of technological evolution back then, but maybe there's a more streamlined way of making these things transparent at the campaign level.
you mean after the 1.5 patch?
Nikodemos
Member
And Sega was afraid that launching after the next-gen consoles would weaken its sales, LOL.
That's what I don't get. You decide that you have to beat the next-gen hype when you're a big PC exclusive in a genre that doesn't see a lot of releases but has a hardcore following, why would you be afraid of losing people to new consoles so much that you're willing to rush a game out the door to the point where it scared away more of the community that was already waiting for you? You're in a niche market that the consoles don't touch and if gamers want your style of game, they'll support you. Instead, you end up creating a bad buzz around a game that has good reviews for the most part and scare away people that didn't preorder but were going to buy it anyway.
I can't count how many times I've heard, "I hear it's a mess so I'm just going to wait for it to go on sale a few months down the line hoping it's fixed by then". You're afraid of losing customers so you do something that will probably lose you more customers anyway and now the game might carry that negative stigma for quite a while regardless of what's fixed. People that were interested might not check into it again and the people that do buy it at a sale are giving you THE SAME or LESS money than they would have if you launched in November. The people you did lose to consoles would wait for a sale too so it makes no difference there!
Really stupid decision and I'm starting to fear PC games that announce release dates really early on simply due to recent experiences. People always clamor for a release date but I think those same people would rather have a delay than a bad launch. Just make us official beta testers next time for a discount...lol
Atraveller
Banned
Sega was "considering" porting this game to the next gen consoles, that might explain the simpler house mechanic compared to Rome 1, and several other stuff.
If this get's a port, then SEGA will lose more sales then it gains, imo. It's utterly ridiculous that they would risk what it likely going to be a multi-million selling game in the hopes that console gamers will flock to this in droves.
Console gamers aren't going to touch Total War with a fifty-foot pole for the exact same reason as every other RTS game has bombed on console: the controls are simply too constraining.
They've already attempted this with 'Stormrise'. It cannot work.
Pretty much. Even Civ had to streamline their game and there's a hell of a lot more going on in Total War. RTS games designed AROUND the console could work but expecting to put a PC game on consoles without SOME control issues is naive and the touchpad couldn't solve it all. On top of that, you'd be releasing game on a market that practically only exists on PC and is still quite specific and counting on early next-gen owners to buy a game in niche genre to them in the midst of the 50 million other games they could buy early on that appeals to them more.
You'd be spending a lot more money than you'd probably get in from the console crowd considering the lack of interest and the competition you'd face from BIG third-party releases and exclusives at a time when a lot of those games won't have money to spend on a bunch of games meaning they'd buy what they know they'll like and what interests them the most and not taking a risk on an RTS game on a console, especially knowing how that's panned out in the past.
I really hope NOTHING in Rome II was altered due to the mere thought of it being possible on consoles due to SEGA or else it was a huge mistake. I'd love to eat crow on this one if it did hit the consoles, but it'd be a big risk to a game unknown to that market.
schroddycat
Member
WTF is this shit with victory point in the battlefield? I just started the new game recently and learned that I'll be auto-defeat if I don't defend the victory point. This is ridiculous!The Liguria army is 3 times my army and I must hold the ground at victory point with no choice of retreating to safer grounds and counter attack?? In Shogun 2, I can win even if I'm outnumbered because I can maneuver the army without the need of defending a flag. But this game, no, my army has to stay still and defend the flag! If I ever need to play "capture the flag" game, I can just play company of heroes!
FloatingDivider
Member
I'm so glad I held back on purchasing this game, I usually get total war games at launch but considering I still haven't played shogun or napoleon I figured I should probably hold off. I'm currently making my way through a campaign in empires, I'll do one in napoleon and shogun and hopefully by then they'll have fixed the issues with this game. Honestly sad about this because Rome is by far my favourite total war game in the series. Also super sad to hear that they still haven't brought back pre-fight general speeches because those were the best.
Unfortunately I'm not enjoying empires at all because the small stack unit is so prevalent in that game as well. I rarely fight full stacks or big battles because the AI likes to send a single unit to just be a dick around my neighbourhood and ransack my production centers.
Unfortunately I'm not enjoying empires at all because the small stack unit is so prevalent in that game as well. I rarely fight full stacks or big battles because the AI likes to send a single unit to just be a dick around my neighbourhood and ransack my production centers.
Dalibor_San
Member
This game is such a big disappointment for me, especially coming from the first Rome Total War game.
I think they have cut many features and regressed the game to the point where I'm just bored, I also dislike the new UI which is to say I mean unit portraits....hideous.
Problems with the Game,not even going to start about a 2013 PC exclusive having no native SLI/Cross-Fire support:
1:Family Tree missing,Generals and Wife/Daughter(s) just being there which I do not grow a bond with like the previous games.
2.Anyone remember when a General died and a Captain popped up to lead the army, which in turn that captain could be a General eventually? Yeah Gone.
3.End Turn taking an eternity...could be an isolated issue, however it has been bugging me ever since Empire, it was in Shogun 2 until the Performance patch, it is now back in Rome albeit in lesser form.
4.A.I. <<<This is the worst it has ever been, well maybe Empire has it beat I guess.
5.Victory points, get that crap out thank you.
I think they have cut many features and regressed the game to the point where I'm just bored, I also dislike the new UI which is to say I mean unit portraits....hideous.
Problems with the Game,not even going to start about a 2013 PC exclusive having no native SLI/Cross-Fire support:
1:Family Tree missing,Generals and Wife/Daughter(s) just being there which I do not grow a bond with like the previous games.
2.Anyone remember when a General died and a Captain popped up to lead the army, which in turn that captain could be a General eventually? Yeah Gone.
3.End Turn taking an eternity...could be an isolated issue, however it has been bugging me ever since Empire, it was in Shogun 2 until the Performance patch, it is now back in Rome albeit in lesser form.
4.A.I. <<<This is the worst it has ever been, well maybe Empire has it beat I guess.
5.Victory points, get that crap out thank you.
Atraveller
Banned
It also makes sieges too easy. Send a unit to capture the flag, if the enemy AI is smart enough to run back, you can charge them from behind, if not, you win anyway.
UnluckyKate
Member
I have issue with Rome but at least it doesn't have the brutal realm divide of shogun that screw you over so hard. If shogun had a needed realm divide it would be my game of the forever
Dont you dare fucking port the TW series to consoles, unless its developed by another team
Goddamnit Sega/CA its not a fucking game that holds well unto consoles.
Stop trying to broaden your fanpage by dumbing down and doing stuff that doesnt fit the character of the series. Instead try to expand your base by creating quality and expanding in features
Goddamnit Sega/CA its not a fucking game that holds well unto consoles.
Stop trying to broaden your fanpage by dumbing down and doing stuff that doesnt fit the character of the series. Instead try to expand your base by creating quality and expanding in features
Atraveller
Banned
Thankfully they are only "considering", not "planning" it.
Yet I wouldn't be surprised if the ( terrible & simplified ) UI was made with a possible console port in mind.
PoweredBySoy
Banned
But Creative Assembly has already earned that stigma, multiple times. Yet Rome II ended up being one of their most popular launches ever.
Gamers have short memories.
Atraveller
Banned
I've heard Empire was pretty rough too.
No, sieges in Medieval 2 were unplayable in the first few weeks after launch, due to severe performance issues. But Rome 2 has the most wide range of issues at launch.
The AI in Empire not being able to land an army from the sea was the worst for me.
No. Others were bad too. It wasn't until Kingdoms that something as basic as cavalry charges were fixed in Medieval 2. Let that sink in for a while. And that's aside from all the bugs and performance issues. Still, Rome 2 is in much worse shape than almost all the others, except maybe Empire.
schroddycat
Member
Haven't played any sieges yet. My Rome is at her infancy and nobody wants to trade with me. So, expanding my territory is the only way to grab more land and thus, money. But I got bogged down on the way to Liguria because the AI decided to counter attack my legions first and that was why my attacking army became the defending army.
In the defending battle, my army is so small yet they're forced to wait for slaughter in an open field. Yep, the VP has to be in the middle of the field of no whatsoever environment advantage. There was high terrain and forest to conceal but leaving the VP for concealment will auto-trigger decisive defeat even if there was no casualties at all.
I mean, what's the point of having those terrain design and forest when the defenders can't utilize it at all? WHAT'S THE POINT OF MY ARMY DEFENDING A TREE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BATTLEFIELD??
I'm willing to try out new tactics but I couldn't have more time to experiment because of the freaking loading time that takes at least minutes to end turn, loading screen, initiate battle, loading, etc etc
Gah!
Hmmm....could this explain a lot of the issues? Shogun 2 was quite well polished when it was released, so it's a surprise that Rome 2 has so many issues.
http://forums.totalwar.com/showthread.php/88992-Rome-2-GOING-CONSOLE!!!-CONFIRM-IN-GAME-FILES
Edit: Only just got to the last few pages. Seems the radial menu is just something the devs were toying with and there's no plans for console Total war ports. Praise Jupiter.
I guess the game is just really unpolished.
http://forums.totalwar.com/showthread.php/88992-Rome-2-GOING-CONSOLE!!!-CONFIRM-IN-GAME-FILES
Edit: Only just got to the last few pages. Seems the radial menu is just something the devs were toying with and there's no plans for console Total war ports. Praise Jupiter.
I guess the game is just really unpolished.
Link
Of Course the rest of the thread was just people calling them liars.
Will see what comes from this, but doubt TW:R will go to consoles.
diggmcbadass
Member
Just tried reading that thread, but had to give up before I got stupid-cancer. Why do all official gaming forums always consist of the worst people in humanity? I don't think I could get this angry about anything in my life, let alone whether or not my favorite game series would be released for consoles or not.
Hari Seldon
Member
Tom Chick destroyed this game with his review, as expected haha.
http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/2013/09/06/creative-assembly-fiddles-rome-ii-loads/#more-25431
http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/2013/09/06/creative-assembly-fiddles-rome-ii-loads/#more-25431
You might want to avoid ever going into the Steam forums. It doesn't matter how good a game is, how good it plays,looks,runs; how good the price is... people will complain. They won't just complain, they will bitch and moan endlessly about the stupidest shit you never thought would be possible to complain about. They will demand refunds IN CAPITAL LETTERSconstantlywhile ignoring the fact that other Steam users are never going to be able to offer that to them. Then they'll get angry about that as well.
I haven't dared enter the Rome II steam forums. I can only imagine what kind of cesspool it currently takes form as.
I put about 40-50 hours in so far and have had some change of opinions on certain items. This is all on legendary/legendary using Radius battle mod, ai mod and graphics mod (not economy and not gameplay)
1. Politics
Initially, I hated this aspect as it was impossible to get a trade system going with any other faction. What I found is that politics is a bit more nuanced than I initially thought. You will find that neighbors become much more friendly to you if you war factions they dislike or are at war with. Also, if you start with an offer of a non aggression pact, this builds your relationship and you can ask for trade rights fairly soon after.
For instance, I am playing as the Arverni, I was attacked from the south by two new enemies. I secured a non aggression pact with a faction to the north to help secure my northern border while I marched south. I was able to defeat the enemy and take over their province. I then secured two non aggression treaties with the border of what is now Spain. This helped secure my southern border. I then started moving north and east, keeping my relationships in tact that I have already built. Soon after, trade agreements followed and the AI seems to keep to its not aggression treaties most of the time.
Overall, I think the system works. It just isnt obvious how to go about securing certain agreements.
2. Battles
With Radius mod to reduce damage and reduce speed, battles are actually quite fun. Surprisingly, the AI is pretty decent in the field. They will try to flank your army when possible and usually make the right choice or close to the right choice. I'm not sure if there was another update, but the enemy actually tried to hold their gate the last siege I had as well (that was a first). Could have been a fluke.
Also, keep in mind that it takes a little while to have factions consolidate power. It can be easy until you confront another power that has 10+ factions, it is pretty hard to cover your entire front with the general limitation (which I think was another good idea, it really forces you to decide where you're going to fight. You cannot hold all borders at once and have to decide where to send your armies, this is very historically accurate).
3. Economy/Buildings
I was also annoyed by this initially. After I worked with the system a bit, I started to like it. You have to get rid of the notion that all towns can be military powerhouses. The squalor system works great and it really forces you to choose what type of buildings you want in which province. An elite level 4 building causes a ton of squalor but it also gets you the best troops and monetary returns. From my experience, each town can have one higher level specialized building. Usually I have one farming system, one temple system to help with public order and conversion (or additional food) and one other building of my choice...whether that is focusing on economy or military. IT really does work.
Overall, I'm much happier with the game now than I was when I first started playing it. If they would simply release a patch to remove capture points on the field, slow down the ai and lower damage and fix the random idiocy of the ai in sieges...I would be pretty happy.
1. Politics
Initially, I hated this aspect as it was impossible to get a trade system going with any other faction. What I found is that politics is a bit more nuanced than I initially thought. You will find that neighbors become much more friendly to you if you war factions they dislike or are at war with. Also, if you start with an offer of a non aggression pact, this builds your relationship and you can ask for trade rights fairly soon after.
For instance, I am playing as the Arverni, I was attacked from the south by two new enemies. I secured a non aggression pact with a faction to the north to help secure my northern border while I marched south. I was able to defeat the enemy and take over their province. I then secured two non aggression treaties with the border of what is now Spain. This helped secure my southern border. I then started moving north and east, keeping my relationships in tact that I have already built. Soon after, trade agreements followed and the AI seems to keep to its not aggression treaties most of the time.
Overall, I think the system works. It just isnt obvious how to go about securing certain agreements.
2. Battles
With Radius mod to reduce damage and reduce speed, battles are actually quite fun. Surprisingly, the AI is pretty decent in the field. They will try to flank your army when possible and usually make the right choice or close to the right choice. I'm not sure if there was another update, but the enemy actually tried to hold their gate the last siege I had as well (that was a first). Could have been a fluke.
Also, keep in mind that it takes a little while to have factions consolidate power. It can be easy until you confront another power that has 10+ factions, it is pretty hard to cover your entire front with the general limitation (which I think was another good idea, it really forces you to decide where you're going to fight. You cannot hold all borders at once and have to decide where to send your armies, this is very historically accurate).
3. Economy/Buildings
I was also annoyed by this initially. After I worked with the system a bit, I started to like it. You have to get rid of the notion that all towns can be military powerhouses. The squalor system works great and it really forces you to choose what type of buildings you want in which province. An elite level 4 building causes a ton of squalor but it also gets you the best troops and monetary returns. From my experience, each town can have one higher level specialized building. Usually I have one farming system, one temple system to help with public order and conversion (or additional food) and one other building of my choice...whether that is focusing on economy or military. IT really does work.
Overall, I'm much happier with the game now than I was when I first started playing it. If they would simply release a patch to remove capture points on the field, slow down the ai and lower damage and fix the random idiocy of the ai in sieges...I would be pretty happy.
Atraveller
Banned
CA needs to fix this fast, or just throw it out completely if they can't think of a proper solution. And this design is worse coupled with dumb AI, in Angry Joe's video, sometimes AI don't respond to VP being captured, he literally won the battle with one single unit.
One other thing to acknowledge..victory points only exist for Italian factions (so it seems). I am playing as the Averti and have no such victory points on the map. I wonder if it was created to mock the style of roman battle (which was essentially a slugfest, legion line up against legion with cavalry on the side/flank).
Atraveller
Banned
Patches managed to make my campaign map run worse than launch, fucking good job CA.
Facism
Member
Atraveller
Banned
Well, I'll try to roll back to 320.49(stable release), see if the performance improves.at least they've done something for you
From Creative Assembly: http://forums.totalwar.com/showthre...nt-from-CA-on-Rome-II-s-release-(11-Sep-2013)
Jibbajabbawockky
Member
Yeah, in some battles it seems like they have the pre battle speeches, sort of. Like in a couple siege defense battles when I've zoomed down to where my general is at the start, he's saying a little speech.
Huzzah! I don't recall them ever going as far as making UI changes in previous games, but if this means they'll get rid of the wasted space, reintroduce the family tree, great rid of field flags, and tweak range indicators so I don't have to keep clicking the unit, then I'm confident the game will someday reach its potential. If people are still broadcasting versus matches on Youtube 10 years from now, then it will have done its job.
Also happy they're considering an open beta. As complex as the games are, and especially being so heavily integrated with Steam, that seems like a no-brainer. Maybe the expansion will be the first product to do this.
Since it already uses Steam, have they clarified why they decided to make their own launcher for Rome II? My library already gives me a handy selection list, and the news is right there in the community box. The "continue campaign" button is nice, but couldn't that just be a launch option? Better yet, let me boot straight to the encyclopedia like in Shogun 2.
They still exist, just zoom in to your general before a fight. If you move they stop talking though.
While this release has been frustrating and disappointing, I have to say I feel for them.
Can you imagine putting so much into making a game only to have this disastrous a launch? Must be really depressing for them.
Not trying to make excuses for them, but still that's gotta suck. Also at least they're communicating.
Can you imagine putting so much into making a game only to have this disastrous a launch? Must be really depressing for them.
Not trying to make excuses for them, but still that's gotta suck. Also at least they're communicating.
exmachina64
Banned
That's hilarious.
The whole game just reeks of poor product management, coupled with publisher pressure to get the game out on a hard date.
How anyone at CA could have played a campaign against the AI and not noticed it horribly manage the rules of the game is beyond me. The repeated stacks of cavalry archers, units plagued by attrition due to squalor and lack of food, all lead to late game factions never really amounting to any type of rival superpower. No faction ever feels particular untouchable or terrifying.
Chance Hale
Member
Still shocked that most reviewers with the exception of a few(PCGamesN, Angry Joe, etc) seem to have put no real time into the game or somehow didn't experience the myriad of issues present or comment on the features removed. Guess big battles, like woah man, override all issues.
Can't say I regret getting the game though, only paid about $30 and without a doubt it will be expanded upon and improved in the coming months. It just feels unfinished sadly.
Can't say I regret getting the game though, only paid about $30 and without a doubt it will be expanded upon and improved in the coming months. It just feels unfinished sadly.