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[Kinyou]

I'm guessing HR/PR probably handled the forum post here, because it's a pretty off-base response.

Honestly I think a lot more people would be okay with the change if they had agreed with the lore reasoning, and not made a statement that's vague and basically puts anything that's sexual in the game under scrutiny

 

[Devilinthiscity]

So what you're saying is half irrelevent, and half just proving that taking it out is fine and people shouldn't act like petulent children over it then?

I don't care if it's in or not. I just thought the whole story and outrage were dumb.

 

[HK-47]

Upset Gamer Clarifies: Developer’s Creative Freedom Only Applies For “Stuff I Agree With”

Exposed.

 

[blankempathy]

Again, if you happen to see someone's ass that is not the same thing as them SHOWING you their ass, flaunting it at you.

If her salute was about her trying to shove her ass in your face that would be a good point, but she doesn't so it's not.

Tell me, if a girl tripped and landed with her privates on yours, would that be as sexual as if she was intentionally getting hot and heavy with you (even when you still have your clothes on)? No. Intent is everything.

And again shes flaunting it how? By standing in the same position she stands in her other front facing pose but happens to be looking behind her? What I'm saying her is the "intent" you're claiming here is flimsy. There are very intentional poses one can do from behind that clearly spell out "look at my ass". This is not one of them.

 

[diamount]

This reminds me when they removed the 'kill two dwarves' joke from male troll in WoW. Yeah, he doesn't mean real dwarves guys.

 

[John Harker]

But WoW has moved away from revealing player armor, 'bikini plate' type deals. It's given Sylvanas a model change, allowing her to lightly armor that exposed midriff. They have made changes here and there, and for what it's worth, the tone of those universes is largely set.

With a new property, they have a fresh opportunity to determine how this one is seen.



Don't give them such a hard time. It is a T rated game about people shooting each other. It's not COD but it's not entirely toothless either. Lighthearted doesn't necessarily mean kid safe.

Mostly seems like a disconnect between their brand manager and their creative producer/designer.

That kind of stuff is fine with me but the brand shouldn't present itself as a Saturday morning cartoon then.

 

[Fushichou187]

EDIT:

holy shit at this response

Apropos as fuck.

 

[TheYanger]

You know, I honestly think some of this is projection. When I look at that pose, I don't think "nice ass". Beyond what I said about that earlier, I can acknowledge it has a little sexy flair but I honestly do see it as a playful thing. If a woman wants to be overtly sexual with her posture, there are a lot of other ways she can do it, whether IRL or in a video game, and I just don't see that here. IMO it's nothing too extreme in my eyes, and I'd say the same thing if I were a woman.

That being said, I don't particularly care either way. It's not my own creation, and it's not like this change is going to be the end of the world or anything. There are other sources I can go for my butt fix, no big deal. And if this helps the game reach an overall more receptive audience and avoid unnecessary controversy, then it's the right decision. I'm just saying that if it were up to me, and the decision were in my hands, I wouldn't even be aware of people thinking this were an issue until well after the game was out.

Itm ight be hard to see in pictures, but she's literally looking down at her ass in that pose. She always has an ass, but she never does anything else to 'show' it like that. If someone wants to see it, they plainly still can.

And again shes flaunting it how? By standing in the same position she stands in her other front facing pose but happens to be looking behind her? What I'm saying her is the "intent" you're claiming here is flimsy. There are very intentional poses one can do from behind that clearly spell out "look at my ass". This is not one of them.

SHE IS LITERALLY STARING AT HER OWN ASS.

 

[Gattsu25]

This is a total non-issue.

It's also, oddly enough, the free market at work.

 

[DocSeuss]

Well, there it is, case closed.

Nah. One person made a thread. Almost all the threads in response are in disagreement to that person. Blizzard responded going "we don't want to make anyone uncomfortable" and made a chance that effectively pleased one individual at the expense of many.

If you can't see the logic/reason in the original post just because you disagree with it then that's your problem. It was written very rationally and clearly outlined the reasons why the Tracer pose was off-putting. Just because you disagree with it doesn't make it a bad argument.

The logic is not rational or clear. The logic is "this character is positive, and sexy does not fit in with positivity," which is an irrational point of view.

She's Fast.
She's Silly.
She's Kind.
She's a good Friend.
Her body seems to be comprised of about 95% spunk.

---

WHAT? What about this pose has anything to do with the character you're building in tracer? It's not fun, its not silly, it has nothing to do with being a fast elite killer. It just reduces tracer to another bland female sex symbol.

None of these things exclude a character from having a character who might dare wanna look cute or sexy or what have you.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

The people finding offense in a butt have some serious issues. Everyone has a butt, you have a butt, I have a butt. It's not like the animation was her rubbing it on the screen or grabbing it or anything. Jesus.

You can't actually believe this, right? lol

 

[Knox]

The response to this has been ridiculous. I kinda agree that it doesn't totally fit her character but it's not nearly as bad as other stuff we've seen, I don't have strong feelings on if they remove it or keep it.

The shocking part is that it's at the top of my front page on Reddit via the Overwatch sub. Why are people so sensitive over this shit? All of the comments in that thread and in lots of the comments here sound like children who've had their toys taken away. Is your life that much worse off because the evil SJWs came and took your butt pose? Gain some perspective.

 

[MUnited83]

Really, pulling out this bullshit?

He ain't wrong.

 

[truestatic]

I don't see how anyone can see the original post as well-reasoned criticism. It's literally just "this character is positive things, and I don't understand how a character in a cutesy pose could fit in with that." It's madonna/whore complex stuff, basically going "a good character can't do anything attractive" and people going "yeah, yeah, that makes sense." That's what's annoying me. It's shit critique. That doesn't mean it's invalid feelings that the person is experiencing, but it's certainly not a well-made point by any means. It's just someone going "I can't accept good characters who might wanna appear attractive." It annoys me that anyone would change their work based on their community because that's ultimately how I am in regards to my own work. So I hate seeing it done. Consider it a personal hangup.

Yeah, I was kinda bothered by the false dichotomy too. But at the end of the day it's just such small potatoes. If this makes that one person happier, fuck it. Great.

 

[blankempathy]

Itm ight be hard to see in pictures, but she's literally looking down at her ass in that pose. She always has an ass, but she never does anything else to 'show' it like that. If someone wants to see it, they plainly still can.



SHE IS LITERALLY STARING AT HER OWN ASS.

Maybe you have more pixels then me but to me she looks like shes staring behind her.

 

[MaximumSpider]

It's hard being an ass man

.

 

[Otnopolit]

Apparently that's wrong.

I think when it comes to entertainment, there is a fair deal of entitlement regarding what people want to be exposed to (ironic phrase) regarding real societal conversations that are happening right now. People would rather be upset that something is being "taken away" rather than take a step back and think through why the decision may have been made given what cultural movement is marching right now.

1000 years ago, we thought draining bad blood from the body was a way to cure illness and disease. A perfectly logical assumption given what we knew scientifically at the time. Now with a bird's eye view of society (or even a first person perspective) and multiple view points, as a white man I can look at the lives of minorities or oppressed people and say "This is wrong", strive to do better, and advocate by using my place of privilege.

 

[Hackworth]

What if for whatever reason there are a few people out there who think that pose doesnt fit Bayonetta's character?

Then they can say what they like, and platinum will probably ignore them if the designers disagree with the criticism.

 

[onanie]

No ifs, ands or butts

 

[TheYanger]

Maybe you have more pixels then me but to me she looks like shes staring behind her.

I have as many pixels as necessary, since I'm looking at it in the game.

 

[Kalamari]

The War on Butts is real!!

 

[Zolo]

The shocking part is that it's at the top of my front page on Reddit via the Overwatch sub.

It's (one of) the fastest growing on GAF too. Threads like this always get a lot of posts.

 

[Cameron122]

Who is doing the fan translation

lmao

 

[stufte]

You can't actually believe this, right? lol

What, that everyone has a butt? Or that finding offense in a butt is weird and oddly puritanical? Especially when it's not inherently sexualized?

 

[leatherhat]

It's (one of) the fastest growing on GAF too. Threads like this always get a lot of posts.

Wouldn't surprise me if they put it in just to remove it for the free advertising. It's so easy.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

I have as many pixels as necessary, since I'm looking at it in the game.

Great. Then you can recognize first-hand that you are making things up. She is not staring at her ass.

 

[manfestival]

I have as many pixels as necessary, since I'm looking at it in the game.

she clearly needs to do more squats

 

[Surface of Me]

Some fans did, so Blizzard listened to their feedback.

That's how games in beta usually work.

If a virtual butt makes you that uncomformtable, the problem is you and not the butt.

Have the people complaining ever seen an attractive female in yoga pants? Should yoga pants be banned?

 

[YoYo Switch]

see the thing about the whole "but changing it was their creative decision" is that the original version is what they intended to put in, people cried sexism and when people cry sexism, it's hard to disagree with them without looking like the bad guy, so they get pressured into changing it, and upset the other side too

meanwhile the bullies who changed it in the first place are deluding themselves that this was their creative decision to change. like, no dude, they wouldn't have done it in the first place if this is what they wanted to do

from where i am sitting, it seems that the developer changed their original art to appease outside pressures, and admitted it in a half limped apology

i bet that the guy who designed dat ass wasn't thinking about inclusivity when they designed it, they're just saying that to get people off their back. and unfortunately in a twitter fueled game critic industry that's filled with negative press regarding sexy women, they don't what their service based game to get killed by negative or no coverage. so they changed their original design not to "please everyone" but to please the people that could bring their game down. no one cares about pleasing the "bad guys" who love tits and ass in their games.

i will concede that changing it was ultimately their decision and that if they truly really wanted to leave it as is, they would have been able to. no one forced them to do so. they could have left it in and face the negative press they might have gotten (only reason this is a story tho is that it got changed.). but to deny that there are outside pressures. and that multiple people from the top of blizzard whose sole job its to turn a profit didn't give the order to have this changed, to deny that, is not looking at the whole picture. it's denial straight up. and i know me making this argument. i won't win it. because I'm a bad guy who really likes tracer's ass.

quoting for the new page. i think there would be people who'd want to respond

 

[Zolo]

Wouldn't surprise me if they put it in just to remove it for the free advertising. It's so easy.

Considering the skin-tight costumes, I doubt the dev/artist thought much of adding a bit more sexualization.

 

[Yukinari]

Would anyone posting in this thread happened to have been around when that trophy in God of War Ascension got its named changed?

Cause this is almost as stupid as that.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

I have as many pixels as necessary, since I'm looking at it in the game.

There's nothing there tho...lol

 

[-Horizon-]

I have as many pixels as necessary, since I'm looking at it in the game.

Wow she looks even flatter here than in the OP pic.

 

[DocSeuss]

Yeah, I was kinda bothered by the false dichotomy too. But at the end of the day it's just such small potatoes. If this makes that one person happier, fuck it. Great.

This is why I'm making a game where all the characters are heavily-armed cyborgs with capes.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

I don't see how anyone can see the original post as well-reasoned criticism. It's literally just "this character is positive things, and I don't understand how a character in a cutesy pose could fit in with that." It's madonna/whore complex stuff.

I don't think it's a positive vs negative thing. It's not that sexy=whore=bad, it's that characters who aren't defined by sexuality don't need it.

Which is the overarching criticism of the games industry, right? It's not like sexuality is bad or needs to be irradiated. It's that including sexual images is the default even in places where it doesn't make sense, in the same way that putting in violence in places that it doesn't belong can be jarring.

EDIT: I responded to your full edited post below.

If a virtual butt makes you that uncomformtable, the problem is you and not the butt.

Have the people complaining ever seen an attractive female in yoga pants? Should yoga pants be banned?

I don't think anyone is uncomfortable about butts. There are a few other characters in Overwatch with this pose and people haven't complained about them, AFAIK.

 

[snickothemule]

lol at blizzard for removing butts.

butts are good.

 

[truestatic]

I have as many pixels as necessary, since I'm looking at it in the game.

The only way she's looking at her own butt is if it's in a mirror.

This is why I'm making a game where all the characters are heavily-armed cyborgs with capes.

Just don't fall into the Fisher Price Metroid: Federation Prime trap.

 

[blankempathy]

I have as many pixels as necessary, since I'm looking at it in the game.

She looks like shes staring at the thing on her back.

 

[John Kowalski]

SHE IS LITERALLY STARING AT HER OWN ASS.

You know i stood up to try it out when i read this because i didn't think it was possible to do it and now my back kind of hurts.

I did see my butt, though it really wasn't worth all the twisting.

 

[leatherhat]

Considering the skin-tight costumes, I doubt the dev/artist thought much of adding a bit more sexualization.

This stuff is done by committees not individual people.

 

[Dinky Dino]

1. Make both poses available and make a few new ones for the others

2. Make the front one default under parental settings if it bothers some so much

Problem solved

 

[cm osi]

I have as many pixels as necessary, since I'm looking at it in the game.

you can't watch your ass with the head like this. eyes aren't even pointing down.

 

[Siege.exe]

Great. Then you can recognize first-hand that you are making things up. She is not staring at her ass.

I'd argue that she can't stare at her ass.

 

[Mik317]

Why is it that gamers always get so irrationally upset and angry when their constant exposure to female sexualization is lessened? Does tits, butts, and generic character poses aimed at tittilation have to be in every single thing these people consume? Aren't there like sexualization of the female body everywhere already?

Are these people even aware of how embarrassing they look by crying "censorship" over one less instance of virtual tittilation? Can't they just go find another instance of arousal if they cannot function in daily life without some virtual character butt pose that we've seen in so many instances already? It's frankly mind-numbing why they are so incredibly bothered by one less virtual butt pose in their teenage/YA entertainment product.

I don't think it is the sexualization that is the issue...but rather things being changed because people complained about it. Its all fun and games until something you actually give a fuck about gets changed. Bravely Second costume changes are "fine" but the change to the story choices involving death is a lot less so but at the end of the day where changed for the same reason ; some people feeling uncomfortable.

Its the age ole slippery slope argument. They change sexy outfits and poses today, they change story outcomes tomorrow. And yes this shit happens all the time in game development....but the issue generally is that thanks to the Internet and betas and all that, we are more involved with the development process.

I don't care much about Overwatch (Multiplayer only shooters aren't my thing), I think the design is neat overall and while ass to the camera pose doesn't seem to fit from what little I do know about the character and its removal isn't that big of a deal...it still is a bit of a bummer to see things cut. No one likes cut content.

 

[TheYanger]

Great. Then you can recognize first-hand that you are making things up. She is not staring at her ass.

Yes, she is. Looking behind you looks like this.

She's either looking at her ass or my crotch. Take your pick, both amount to the same thing.

you can't watch your ass with the head like this. eyes aren't even pointing down.

I don't think you know what direction 'down' is.

 

[AtticuSMT]

Great. Then you can recognize first-hand that you are making things up. She is not staring at her ass.

I agree with this. To me she doesnt really look like she is looking at her own ass, i thought she kind of was till you psoted the pic of her in the green. Now it seems like its more of just a look back (like its titled in game none the less lol)

 

[DocSeuss]

I don't think it's a positive vs negative thing. It's not that sexy=whore=bad, it's that characters who aren't defined by sexuality don't need it.

Which is the overarching criticism of the games industry, right? It's not like sexuality is bad or needs to be irradiated. It's that including sexual images is the default even in places where it doesn't make sense, in the same way that putting in violence in places that it doesn't belong can be jarring.

I think it's making a false equivalency. It's going "no, no, no, she's positive. She can't be sexy. Sexy isn't positive!" and I think that's a mistake. Especially when it's something as mild--and 100% optional--as this victory pose.

 

[blankempathy]

Yes, she is. Looking behind you looks like this.

She's either looking at her ass or my crotch. Take your pick, both amount to the same thing.


I don't think you know what direction 'down' is.

This guys clearly staring off to the side. Stand up and actually try to look at your ass.

 

[LiK]

I have as many pixels as necessary, since I'm looking at it in the game.

this angle makes the pose look even more awkward.

 

[TheDarkKnight774]

Meh. If they change it whatever. I had no issue with the pose shown, nor do I think it's some "out of character" aspect.

What I'm curious is some posters in this thread have stated with strong determination to having it removed but I hadn't heard any chatter until this moment. Which had me wonder, so what other poses or whatever are you wanting removed that are "so obvious" but haven't been voiced? Clearly you must have others you're wanting the Devs to remove right?