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[DoktorEvil]

Can't you just be somebody who likes video games?

That's what I call a gamer.

The crazy schizo guys that live and breathe the bad stereotype are what dirty the word.

That's what a gamer is. That's why Leigh Alexander's article was so goddamn stupid: she's either using the word in the way that most people use it, in which case her article is insulting, or she's using the word in a totally idiosyncratic way that she doesn't bother to explain, in which case her article is needlessly provocative.

Or she wrote an article tailor made to upset some people because they hold so dear to the convictions of self identifying as a gamer.

Using your example of someone writing an article slandering Muslims, you'll garner more support because religion is sacred. Gaming isn't.

 

[antigoon]

The actual points of Alexander's article I found myself either agreeing with or at least acknowledging, but the rhetoric was downright awful from an educational perspective.

I guess you can look at it that way. But it was a polemic, not a teaching tool.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

Or she wrote an article tailor made to upset some people because they hold so dear to the convictions of self identifying as a gamer.

Using your example of someone writing an article slandering Muslims, you'll garner more support because religion is sacred. Gaming isn't.

Every person's identity is sacred to that person.

And her article was bound to upset people not because they hold so dearly to their convictions, but rather because they self-identify as gamers and when they see an article indiscriminately insulting gamers they naturally assume that article is directed at them.

 

[The Technomancer]

That's what a gamer is. That's why Leigh Alexander's article was so goddamn stupid: she's either using the word in the way that most people use it, in which case her article is insulting, or she's using the word in a totally idiosyncratic way that she doesn't bother to explain, in which case her article is needlessly provocative.

The whole article is about the incestuous consumer-creator-press dynamic that led to things like the Sony E3 conference speech about how awesome and special gamers are, or the creation of Gamer Grub and GameFuel Mountain Dew, or any other one of the numerous examples of the whole "gamer as an identity of consumption" thing. Which I found pretty clear the first time I read the article

 

[Orayn]

Super shitty if the police actually suggested that.

If she's getting threats from her work, how about you do your Goddamn jobs and help protect her constitutional right to freedom of expression?

 

[Jarate]

Super shitty if the police actually suggested that.

If she's getting threats from her work, how about you do your Goddamn jobs and help protect her constitutional right to freedom of expression?

Not to be dismissive, but I doubt a police secretary knows anything about video games, or the culture of said video games, or about anything involved with video games.

If I was making critiques of a fine restaurant, and restaurant fanboys came and harassed me, i'd probably get the same response from police because why would they know the politics of said restaurant industry.

 

[antigoon]

Wow

 

[DoktorEvil]

Every person's identity is sacred to that person.

And her article was bound to upset people not because they hold so dearly to their convictions, but rather because they self-identify as gamers and when they see an article indiscriminately insulting gamers they naturally assume that article is directed at them.

So a hobbyist identity is more sacred than a religious identity?

The self identification of "gamer" is a ridiculous one to begin with. The bar for playing video games is money. Buy a console/PC/Handheld and games, you're a "gamer". How much of a commitment do we all really owe to the label?

Super shitty if the police actually suggested that.

If she's getting threats from her work, how about you do your Goddamn jobs and help protect her constitutional right to freedom of expression?

It's not about expression.

Rank and file officers aren't going to take her threat seriously. She doesn't wield a large power base or sphere of influence.

 

[Vlade]

Super shitty if the police actually suggested that.

If she's getting threats from her work, how about you do your Goddamn jobs and help protect her constitutional right to freedom of expression?

Seems like she could ask the police that same question.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

So a hobbyist identity is more sacred than a religious identity?

The self identification of "gamer" is a ridiculous one to begin with. The bar for playing video games is money. Buy a console/PC/Handheld and games, you're a "gamer". How much of a commitment do we all really owe to the label?

You don't get to decide for people what identities matter and what don't. That's not how identity works.

 

[stupei]

Every person's identity is sacred to that person.

And her article was bound to upset people not because they hold so dearly to their convictions, but rather because they self-identify as gamers and when they see an article indiscriminately insulting gamers they naturally assume that article is directed at them.

When a teacher says, "Students, don't talk in class," do you immediately shout, "Hey, not everyone was talking!" or do you parse out that if you weren't doing the thing being criticized then the critique is not directed at you?

Not to be dismissive, but I doubt a police secretary knows anything about video games, or the culture of said video games, or about anything involved with video games.

If I was making critiques of a fine restaurant, and restaurant fanboys came and harassed me, i'd probably get the same response from police because why would they know the politics of said restaurant industry.

No matter what you do for a living, I can't really think it's productive for police to tell someone, "Why don't you just quit your job?" in response to harassment.

 

[Orayn]

Not to be dismissive, but I doubt a police secretary knows anything about video games, or the culture of said video games, or about anything involved with video games.

If I was making critiques of a fine restaurant, and restaurant fanboys came and harassed me, i'd probably get the same response from police because why would they know the politics of said restaurant industry.

True, but you'd think they'd understand the basic idea of: "I'm currently making a living doing this thing where I express my opinion and now some people are reacting negatively and threatening me and my family."

Is there any scenario where "Why don't you just stop?" is actually a reasonable response to that?

 

[Curufinwe]

True, but you'd think they'd understand the basic idea of: "I'm currently making a living doing this thing where I express my opinion and now some people are reacting negatively and threatening me and my family."

Is there any scenario where "Why don't you just stop?" is actually a reasonable response to that?

Yeah, if your unpopular opinion is some kind of despicable hate speech like with the Westboro Baptist Church.

 

[kirblar]

Sadly, the local PD being completely and utterly useless here doesn't come as a surprise.

 

[Jarate]

No matter what you do for a living, I can't really think it's productive for police to tell someone, "Why don't you just quit your job?" in response to harassment.

When you're job is posting youtube videos on the internet critiquing video games, I don't expect random police secretaries who are in ther 40's or 50's to understand the ins and outs of said politics.

If you were a critic of the music of Justin bieber for instance, and a bunch of fans started harassing you, and you called the cops, what do you think the police secretary would say about that. I don't think it;s right because this shit needs to stop, and people who harass need to be stopped by police, but I can't really blame the police secretary.

I think Anita should be talking to a lawyer right now and talking to more higher ups. Police are not a beacon of good advice for this situation.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

When a teacher says, "Students, don't talk in class," do you immediately shout, "Hey, not everyone was talking!" or do you parse out that if you weren't doing the thing being criticized then the critique is not directed at you?

When someone writes an article demonizing black criminals and black crime should we expect black people reading the article to say to themselves "oh I'm not a black criminal so I've no reason to be offended by this article"? Really? Come on.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

When a teacher says, "Students, don't talk in class," do you immediately shout, "Hey, not everyone was talking!" or do you parse out that if you weren't doing the thing being criticized then the critique is not directed at you?



No matter what you do for a living, I can't really think it's productive for police to tell someone, "Why don't you just quit your job?" in response to harassment.

Thank you. Perhaps I don't understand the need to constantly drill home semantics. When I read an article that says, "Hey guys, how about you stop date raping? Here are some horrific stats", I don't suddenly feel outrage because I'm a guy, although I certainly identify as male. As I am not a date rapist, the article is neither insulting nor accusing me.

And yet, time and again, whenever a fringe or attacked group complains about being fringe and attacked, people start pouring out of the woodwork to defend the honor of the 'silent majority' who shouldn't have to read about the plights of those groups.

The religious analogy is getting OT, but the same applies. When someone decries the works of ISIS or the government of Israel, it adds little to the conversation (and shows an insane amount of defensiveness) to jump in and yell #notallMuslims or #dontbeanantisemite. At that point your group identity has clouded your ability to engage in rational discussion; you're Don Quixote charging full steam ahead at a windmill dragon.

When someone writes an article demonizing black criminals and black crime should we expect black people reading the article to say to themselves "oh I'm not a black criminal so I've no reason to be offended by this article"? Really? Come on.

I felt this analogy would be used as well, and it's an apt point. If there is an article lamenting inner city gang life, female-degrading hip hop music, or the lack of LGBT progress in the black community, what can I come in and say? But anyone writing a serious piece on crime and poverty would probably be educated enough to examine the sociology surrounding drug and crime-ridden areas, instead of just throwing out "lol black people" like an Ann Coulter-esque snark troll.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

Thank you. Perhaps I don't understand the need to constantly drill home semantics. When I read an article that says, "Hey guys, how about you stop date raping? Here are some horrific stats", I don't suddenly feel outrage because I'm a guy, although I certainly identify as male. As I am not a date rapist, the article is neither insulting nor accusing me.

And yet, time and again, whenever a fringe or attacked group complains about being fringe and attacked, people start pouring out of the woodwork to defend the honor of the 'silent majority' who shouldn't have to read about the plights of those groups.

The religious analogy is getting OT, but the same applies. When someone decries the works of ISIS or the government of Israel, it adds little to the conversation (and shows an insane amount of defensiveness) to jump in and yell #notallMuslims or #dontbeanantisemite. At that point your group identity has clouded your ability to engage in rational discussion; you're Don Quixote charging full steam ahead at a windmill dragon.

She didn't decry the gaming equivalent of Isis or the Israeli government, which I assume would be "people sending death threats." The words used were "gamers" and "gaming culture."

 

[DoktorEvil]

She didn't decry the gaming equivalent of Isis or the Israeli government, which I assume would be "people sending death threats." The words used were "gamers" and "gaming culture."

You are correct. I can't decide what labels matter to who, but there's an understanding that certain labels in general deserve more respect and renown than others.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

She didn't decry the gaming equivalent of Isis or the Israeli government, which I assume would be "people sending death threats." The words used were "gamers" and "gaming culture."

From Leigh's original article (I assume we're talking about her piece, not Sarkeesian atm):

‘Games culture’ is a petri dish of people who know so little about how human social interaction and professional life works that they can concoct online ‘wars’ about social justice or ‘game journalism ethics,’ straight-faced, and cause genuine human consequences. Because of video games.

All of us should be better than this. You should be deeply questioning your life choices if this and this and this are the prominent public face your business presents to the rest of the world.

I mean, she's pretty specific in quoting a few examples that actually happened.

Her rationale from the OP of the other thread:

A lot of ‘proud nerds’ are people who used the fact they were picked on for their interests as children to maintain, as adults and and fathers (they are most often privileged men, now) a ‘secret clubhouse’ that lets them victimize and oppress other participants — despite the fact games are now a multi-billion dollar industry, increasingly stigma-free, and desperately in need of the creative and professional participation of multitudes of new voices.

Self-identified nerds are often so obsessed with their identity as cultural outcasts that they are willfully blind to their privilege, and for the sake of relatively-absurd fandoms — space marines, dragons, zombies, endless war simulations — take their myopic and insular attitudes to “art” and “culture” with tunnel-visioned, inflexible, embarrassing seriousness that often leads to homogeneity, racism, sexism and bullying.

I was a nerd in HS. I've been to PAX East - twice. I lined up outdoors to get my hands on a Gamecube and an N64. I currently have a PC and 360 backlog longer than my arm, with a Wii U and Xbox One sitting in my living room with 2 generations of Kinect. I watch GoT and debate comic books from the 90s and their adapted movies on a gaming forum on the internet. And I still don't identify with the negative activities and attitudes she's describing.

The article is almost 6 years too late on gaming sloughing off the 18-34 male label. The Wii, DS and the iPhone put us there in 2008.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Holy crap, incredible. Although perhaps it should not surprise me at all.

 

[staticneuron]

I mean, she's pretty specific in quoting a few examples that actually happened.

But this

‘Games culture’ is a petri dish of people who know so little about how human social interaction and professional life works that they can concoct online ‘wars’ about social justice or ‘game journalism ethics,’ straight-faced, and cause genuine human consequences. Because of video games.

doesn't sound like a sweeping generalization?

From the same article....

Yet disclaiming liability is clearly no help. Game websites with huge community hubs whose fans are often associated with blunt Twitter hate mobs sort of shrug, they say things like ‘we delete the really bad stuff, what else can we do’ and ‘those people don’t represent our community’ -- but actually, those people do represent your community. That’s what your community is known for, whether you like it or not.

I can go on about other logical fallacies but it is irrelevant to the point here which is just like with this horrible business of Sarkeesian receiving these threats, apparently it is the cause of "gamers". That is the narrative being pushed. But anyone with common sense knows that there are horrible people no matter what their favorite entertainment hobby they choose to identify with, from sports, movies, comics, auto enthusiasts, you will find that the hobby isn't what defines this bad behavior and it shouldn't be attributed to it.

EDIT: also from the other thread...
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=127539524&postcount=546

Some of these tweets from her, doesn't sound that balanced at all.

Another edit:

I felt this analogy would be used as well, and it's an apt point. If there is an article lamenting inner city gang life, female-degrading hip hop music, or the lack of LGBT progress in the black community, what can I come in and say? But anyone writing a serious piece on crime and poverty would probably be educated enough to examine the sociology surrounding drug and crime-ridden areas, instead of just throwing out "lol black people" like an Ann Coulter-esque snark troll.

Well as an example of how some jurno's put forth questionable terms is "black on black" violence. It is supposedly a problem, an epidemic. Maybe, just maybe, it is because when you focus on a community filled with a certain demographic you might see higher rates of crime among them. Nationwide 85% of crimes against white people are done by white people. Why do you never hear the term "White on White" violence on television?

 

[RageBot]

Take a look at this open letter signed by thousands of developers. And this is just from devs that are on twitter right now. And not all of them are aware of this. I think it's great message to have this.

https://medium.com/@andreaszecher/open-letter-to-the-gaming-community-df4511032e8a

Does this happen to be the same letter that is covered here?

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s7k8i1

If these are the same kind of "devs" this list is a fucking joke, it has Adam Orth on it.

 

[Gestault]

Not to be dismissive, but I doubt a police secretary knows anything about video games, or the culture of said video games, or about anything involved with video games.

If I was making critiques of a fine restaurant, and restaurant fanboys came and harassed me, i'd probably get the same response from police because why would they know the politics of said restaurant industry.

If that was even hinted in something a police representative said, I'd be furious, but I imagine this being a pretty accurate explanation of why someone would say something so bone-headed.

 

[Terrell]

But this


doesn't sound like a sweeping generalization?

To say that gamer culture hasn't or doesn't breed such behavior in a topic that specifically highlights a clear instance of it is a non-starter of an argument. It is your choice to associate the negative aspects of a subculture to yourself, for you to identify as the bacteria in the Petri dish instead of being anywhere else inside it.

 

[DoktorEvil]

From Leigh's original article (I assume we're talking about her piece, not Sarkeesian atm):





I mean, she's pretty specific in quoting a few examples that actually happened.

Her rationale from the OP of the other thread:



I was a nerd in HS. I've been to PAX East - twice. I lined up outdoors to get my hands on a Gamecube and an N64. I currently have a PC and 360 backlog longer than my arm, with a Wii U and Xbox One sitting in my living room with 2 generations of Kinect. I watch GoT and debate comic books from the 90s and their adapted movies on a gaming forum on the internet. And I still don't identify with the negative activities and attitudes she's describing.

The article is almost 6 years too late on gaming sloughing off the 18-34 male label. The Wii, DS and the iPhone put us there in 2008.

She's really taking bad gamers as a whole to task, but she's also relying on a lot of old "gamer" tropes to make her point.

That would be if I wrote a scathing article about Feminism using movie/tv tropes and stereotypes to prove that gamers getting abuse by women is symptomatic of feminist culture(that's just a load of hyperbole to elicit the same response)

But I'm falling OT and this is all irrelevant to Anita.

 

[jimi_dini]

But this

Wow

‘Games culture’ is a petri dish of people who know so little about how human social interaction and professional life works

Wow, just wow. How fucked up can you be to write something like this.

Oh well, what's funny is that she isn't even consistent.

A lot of ‘proud nerds’ are people who used the fact they were picked on for their interests as children to maintain, as adults and and fathers (they are most often privileged men, now) a ‘secret clubhouse’ that lets them victimize and oppress other participants[/b] — despite the fact games are now a multi-billion dollar industry, increasingly stigma-free

To me she sounds like a bully. Well a bully, that can't even keep her story straight.

So fathers, right? privileged men, right? But they don't know how "human social interaction" and "professional life" works? This doesn't make sense. "increasingly stigma-free", sure in case we don't count the stuff that she wrote.

 

[Carlius]

i love this woman so much, shes my dream waifu. this is messed up son

 

[unbias]

To say that gamer culture hasn't or doesn't breed such behavior in a topic that specifically highlights a clear instance of it is a non-starter of an argument. It is your choice to associate the negative aspects of a subculture to yourself, for you to identify as the bacteria in the Petri dish instead of being anywhere else inside it.

Someone who does X, who also did Y, does not mean that X breeds Y. I mean, do you think anyone really is simply a product of this binary assumption? Calling the people who do this a horrible person? Yes. Saying X breeds Y without proof, that X is actually breeding Y? No.

 

[Stinkles]

Does this happen to be the same letter that is covered here?

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s7k8i1

If these are the same kind of "devs" this list is a fucking joke, it has Adam Orth on it.

Loads of the people identified as not devs on that list are devs. If the argument is about programming then the author should stop using the broader term, not the people he listed. Say engineering or programming if that's what you mean.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Not to be dismissive, but I doubt a police secretary knows anything about video games, or the culture of said video games, or about anything involved with video games.

If I was making critiques of a fine restaurant, and restaurant fanboys came and harassed me, i'd probably get the same response from police because why would they know the politics of said restaurant industry.

Where are you seeing that it's a police secretary?

If that is just an assumption, it's pretty good at demonstrating that some of the points in her work are right.

 

[Terrell]

Someone who does X, who also did Y, does not mean that X breeds Y. I mean, do you think anyone really is simply a product of this binary assumption? Calling the people who do this a horrible person? Yes. Saying X breeds Y without proof, that X is actually breeding Y? No.

If a gamer exhibits this behavior and the community at large isn't self-policing it out of the community, isn't it fair to say we allowed it to continue, even out of general apathy or laziness to do so? We are all responsible for how gaming culture is perceived.

 

[staticneuron]

To say that gamer culture hasn't or doesn't breed such behavior in a topic that specifically highlights a clear instance of it is a non-starter of an argument. It is your choice to associate the negative aspects of a subculture to yourself, for you to identify as the bacteria in the Petri dish instead of being anywhere else inside it.

Except for the fact that this issue happened in particular after Adam Baldwin tweeted her stuff. How on earth can you state it is due specifically to gamers instead of some misogynist who isn't even related to gaming?

This the exact problem I was trying to point out. There is nothing about games that create this sort of behavior. There are millions of gamers out there. The idea that there are no hateful, racist, misogynistic people out there who happen to have gaming as a hobby versus gaming creating them is so twisted I am surprised you are seriously trying to imply this here.

This isn't a "subculture" of gaming. It is a bunch of obnoxious jerks, period. Spend enough time on the internet and you will find them associated with every hobby imaginable, to the point I wonder what the hell is wrong with some people. But I never once blamed the hobby.

If a gamer exhibits this behavior and the community at large isn't self-policing it out of the community, isn't it fair to say we allowed it to continue?

And how would one do that? Do you know who this person who made the death threats are? Assuming they are gamers, if you know they were going to post something like that how would you police or stop them? I am really interested to hear you provide examples on how can we can identify these bad elements and also control them.

 

[SerTapTap]

Super shitty if the police actually suggested that.

If she's getting threats from her work, how about you do your Goddamn jobs and help protect her constitutional right to freedom of expression?

No one accused police of being progressive...

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

How on earth can you state it is due specifically to gamers instead of some misogynist who isn't even related to gaming?

Because we play videogames and talk to people who play them.

 

[unbias]

If a gamer exhibits this behavior and the community at large isn't self-policing it out of the community, isn't it fair to say we allowed it to continue, even out of general apathy or laziness to do so? We are all responsible for how gaming culture is perceived.

No, because this behavior isnt acceptable in pop culture, yet it happens anyways. You would 1st have to show that the self policing(or the lack of) is the reason it exists in pop culture. I dont think it is reasonable to make the claim that self policing is the reason it exists in pop culture, because we see people get called out on it all the time in pop culture, yet we still see destructive behavior patterns. This should be a strong signal that what constitutes acceptable behavior and what people police isn't what is causing said issue.

 

[staticneuron]

Because we play videogames and talk to people who play them.

And that some how allows you to identify the person making death threats on twitter? Please enlighten us who this person is then. And why you didn't report them to the police if you knew they did such a thing?

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

And that some how allows you to identify the person making death threats on twitter? Please enlighten us who this person is then. And why you didn't report them to the police if you knew they did such a thing?

I'm not following your logic.

 

[Terrell]

Except for the fact that this issue happened in particular after Adam Baldwin tweeted her stuff. How on earth can you state it is due specifically to gamers instead of some misogynist who isn't even related to gaming?

If he's just some random mysogynist, how would he even know or care about the discussion being had? Let's not argue in bad faith and put our fingers in our ears pretending something for the sake of convenience.

 

[staticneuron]

I'm not following your logic.

If he's just some random mysogynist, how would he even know or care about the discussion being had? Let's not argue in bad faith.

This happened after Adam Baldwin (actor know for Firefly and Chuck) retweeted her video.

https://twitter.com/AdamBaldwin

Take a look at his tweets and retweets.

That could be a possible reason that one of his followers could have done it and probably out of political or personal stance.

The question begs, if it was the same annoying idiots from before why haven't these threats been made before. Attacks on her for this material isn't new and she knew she was being targeted especially by 4chan before she even started the kickstarter for FemFreq.

Nice dodge though on the question of how to identify and police the negative elements of the gaming "subculture".

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

You could look at anyone's tweets and retweets related to Anita's situation and make up your own stories about what's really going on in your mind. You're in your own created filter bubble.

The question begs, if it was the same annoying idiots from before why haven't these threats been made before. Attacks on her for this material isn't new and she knew she was being targeted especially by 4chan before she even started the kickstarter for FemFreq.

Because no one was creepy enough yet to have found her personal address and parents' address and threatened to rape and kill all of them.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

She's really taking bad gamers as a whole to task, but she's also relying on a lot of old "gamer" tropes to make her point.

That would be if I wrote a scathing article about Feminism using movie/tv tropes and stereotypes to prove that gamers getting abuse by women is symptomatic of feminist culture(that's just a load of hyperbole to elicit the same response).

That would be like if you wrote a scathing article about how feminists are ugly and hairy and shrill and hate men. People would rightly call you out on that, I don't see why people think Alexander's piece is worth defending. It's clearly indefensible.

 

[Ponn]

If he's just some random mysogynist, how would he even know or care about the discussion being had? Let's not argue in bad faith and put our fingers in our ears pretending something for the sake of convenience.

To be fair this is now hitting mainstream media and there are articles out there now like that Breitbart piece that is going to be circulating with conservatives and those type of groups that are going to attract that sort of vile attention. Which, surprise surprise, I doubt those average fox news watchers that will eat that crap article up are exactly "gamers" Thats not to say these threats weren't done by gamers at first, but now its at least questionable. It's not all in absolutes basically.

Think the main point trying to be made is gaming didn't create misogynists, if so we all would be and also Thompson would be right and we all would be out shooting people creating violence. Are you willing to accept social responsibility for the people that committed school shootings and were trying to be connected to video games? Was Dark Knight responsible for Aurora? Does the rampant misogyny in sports like a rapist getting away with it winning a Heismann trophy even or the vitriol aimed at the woman who accused Kobe Bryant of rape, on this very board, due to gamers? Lets allow for some self-responsibility for actions and not paint broad generalizations for the sake of convenience.

 

[JDSN]

I see mental illness on that twitter.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

The question begs, if it was the same annoying idiots from before why haven't these threats been made before. Attacks on her for this material isn't new and she knew she was being targeted especially by 4chan before she even started the kickstarter for FemFreq.

Hasn't she gotten loads of death & rape threats right from the very start?

The only reason this one stands out is the details of her and her parents being included, which is rightfully creepy.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Think the main point trying to be made is gaming didn't create misogynists, if so we all would be and also Thompson would be right and we all would be out shooting people creating violence. Are you willing to accept social responsibility for the people that committed school shootings and were trying to be connected to video games? Was Dark Knight responsible for Aurora? Does the rampant misogyny in sports like a rapist getting away with it winning a Heismann trophy even or the vitriol aimed at the woman who accused Kobe Bryant of rape, on this very board, due to gamers? Lets allow for some self-responsibility for actions and not paint broad generalizations for the sake of convenience.

I don't think anyone's really saying games made people this way. In your examples, social and self-responsibility would mean we'd say something every time we hear the n-word or rape threats in voice chat, which I never hear anyone criticizing while I'm playing. I'm always the only person speaking up. Games didn't make us this way, but we have a lot to do to make sure kids growing up this way don't see this behavior they experience every day online as normal and right.

 

[DoktorEvil]

That would be like if you wrote a scathing article about how feminists are ugly and hairy and shrill and hate men. People would rightly call you out on that, I don't see why people think Alexander's piece is worth defending. It's clearly indefensible.

I'm not defending her. Her arguments are weakened based on her beginning paragraphs.

You can't inject personal hyperbole into your argument to bolster your point, otherwise your entire argument and basis for arguing is flawed.

I learned that writing English essays in High School and I'm not a professional journalist.

 

[staticneuron]

You could look at anyone's tweets and retweets related to Anita's situation and make up your own stories about what's really going on in your mind. You're in your own created filter bubble.

Ok, I am not sure why I am entertaining this. But as you said, people have retweeted her videos (and news sites have helped propagate the exposure) so a plethora of people who may not even be related to gaming (as in they might not game as a hobby) could have had exposure to her videos.

My question is this...

How on earth can you state it is due specifically to gamers instead of some misogynist who isn't even related to gaming?

and your response was

Because we play videogames and talk to people who play them.

Which isn't an answer but a general statement that doesn't answer my question. To "know" the answer means you would have to know who made the threat and what their hobbies are.

I am questioning this fact because why has this not happened before despite her have the most obnoxious group I have ever seen on the internet go after repeatedly.

For you to simply imply that that you know who the bad element is and that it must be a gamer sounds exactly like the narrative that has been on repeat recently about gamers... and yet I am the one in a "filter bubble"?

Hasn't she gotten loads of death & rape threats right from the very start?

The only reason this one stands out is the details of her and her parents being included, which is rightfully creepy.

That's the point. 4chan, when trying to find information on people are normally able to do so quite quickly which leads me to believe alot of their efforts were trolling. A threat including personal information is just a tad darker than the other vile stuff which could simply be viewed as empty.

I don't think anyone's really saying games made people this way. In your examples, social and self-responsibility would mean we'd say something every time we hear the n-word or rape threats in voice chat, which I never hear anyone criticizing while I'm playing. I'm always the only person speaking up. Games didn't make us this way, but we have a lot to do to make sure kids growing up this way don't see this behavior they experience every day online as normal and right.

And saying something would not change the behavior. You could do alot of things, mute them, if you are in charge kick them from room, report the account or leave. but the truth is these issues aren't created by games and there is nothing you can do that can change behavior. The best you can do is carve your own safe haven if possible but if articles like Leigh Alexander is to be believed, even if you do that, you are still somehow responsible for the behavior of all the other bad apples out there.

 

[Ponn]

I don't think anyone's really saying games made people this way.

That hasn't been very clear at all in the last week. Especially reading twitter from the general populace.

In your examples, social and self-responsibility would mean we'd say something every time we hear the n-word or rape threats in voice chat, which I never hear anyone criticizing while I'm playing. I'm always the only person speaking up. Games didn't make us this way, but we have a lot to do to make sure kids growing up this way don't see this behavior they experience every day online as normal and right.

And thats a great example to set. I don't play games online but I certainly know that exists. Dollar to donut those attitudes and thinking don't stop once the system is turned off but it should be fought. Unfortunately thats not the message being sent by media and articles right now. The message is "gamers" are dead, disassociate from them. And no matter how much clarification or mental gymnastics you want to do on a message board to convince otherwise that "they weren't really talking about me because im one of the good ones" Joe Schmo reading twitter and social media sees no difference.

 

[Zxrophantom]

The whole article is about the incestuous consumer-creator-press dynamic that led to things like the Sony E3 conference speech about how awesome and special gamers are, or the creation of Gamer Grub and GameFuel Mountain Dew, or any other one of the numerous examples of the whole "gamer as an identity of consumption" thing. Which I found pretty clear the first time I read the article

I don't see what the Sony conference or Game Fuel mountain dew as anything to do with it. Pointing out businesses being a business and trying to market to their demo does not seem any different than apple marketing to people who buy apple products. Also i don't understand where this narrative of gamers thinking they are special comes from. I understand they are a lot of jerks on the interest and within gaming but i don't understand the compete turn on everything gaming related.