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[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

And saying something would not change the behavior. You could do alot of things, mute them, if you are in charge kick them from room, report the account or leave. but the truth is these issues aren't created by games and there is nothing you can do that can change behavior. The best you can do is carve your own safe haven if possible but if articles like Leigh Alexander is to be believed, even if you do that, you are still somehow responsible for the behavior of all the other bad apples out there.

This is sad thinking to me. Voice and text chat is wretched in every game. It doesn't matter how innocuous it is. It doesn't matter if games didn't create the issues, because gamers themselves aren't doing anything about it. I want all of gaming to be a safe haven, not just something I have to create for myself with a curated friend list and game selection.

Which isn't an answer but a general statement that doesn't answer my question. To "know" the answer means you would have to know who made the threat and what their hobbies are.

I am questioning this fact because why has this not happened before despite her have the most obnoxious group I have ever seen on the internet go after repeatedly.

For you to simply imply that that you know who the bad element is and that it must be a gamer sounds exactly like the narrative that has been on repeat recently about gamers... and yet I am the one in a "filter bubble"?

You're going too deep into assuming you know better based on your own context clues when the conversation is really just "gamers are generally pretty awful to her right now" which isn't an inaccurate thing to say.

 

[stupei]

When someone writes an article demonizing black criminals and black crime should we expect black people reading the article to say to themselves "oh I'm not a black criminal so I've no reason to be offended by this article"? Really? Come on.

You have now compared being a gamer to being black and being a Muslim. Self-identifying as a label derived from purchasing habits is and always will be a choice, and isn't really the same as belonging to an oppressed minority group. Someone cannot choose to not be black.

I don't really see how they're comparable, but I guess that's where we differ.

It's much closer to my original example. "Students" are not an oppressed minority. If an article was written that said students in America are failing and not achieving to their potential when compared to the rest of the world, this would be factually true and no reasonable person would expect to waste time on "but not all students" when the education crisis is what should actually be under discussion.

 

[Terrell]

This isn't a "subculture" of gaming. It is a bunch of obnoxious jerks, period. Spend enough time on the internet and you will find them associated with every hobby imaginable, to the point I wonder what the hell is wrong with some people. But I never once blamed the hobby.

So gamer culture doesn't exist for you. Fine, I'll accept that.
Then why turn around care what Leigh Alexander says on the subject at all, if she's talking about something that isn't real? You're giving an awful lot of fucks for something you perceive as non-existent.

 

[MegamanPoweredUP]

Maybe I'm too honest, but I can't say I disagree with them. I can easily imagine that police was like "kids today are so weird...why she doesn't get a real job". This way of thinking is very stupid, but that's how common people would react.
Also, her answer is even worse. It's important what? Videogames are just games. Who cares?

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Also, her answer is even worse. It's important what? Videogames are just games. Who cares?

I understand the context of what you're saying, but it is pretty difficult to find an appropriate big budget game to play with my girlfriend for about a hundred reasons.

 

[unbias]

You have now compared being a gamer to being black and being a Muslim. Self-identifying as a label derived from purchasing habits is and always will be a choice, and isn't really the same as belonging to an oppressed minority group. Someone cannot choose to not be black.

I don't really see how they're comparable, but I guess that's where we differ.

It's much closer to my original example. "Students" are not an oppressed minority. If an article was written that said students in America are failing and not achieving to their potential when compared to the rest of the world, this would be factually true and no reasonable person would expect to waste time on "but not all students" when the education crisis is what should actually be under discussion.

Well, If your philosophy is, "This mentality is harmful because it enforces stereotypes of people and puts them into a single category", then that philosophical mentality should straight up not be used. If you do find that philosophical view point as valid, you cant then say the philosophy is invalid because X group isn't a self identifier, because then you would have to argue WHY someone does or doesn't have to identify with that moniker(including race, religion, politics, and beliefs). You still would be using a philosophical train of thought to demonize a certain segment of the population, regardless of the ability to not self identify. It also obfuscates the talking points, because people are not actually talking about bad behavior, we are now talking about the meta behavior of a broad generalization of a group of people who self identify with a consumer base. If you think this philosophical train of thought is healthy, I would like to see evidence where it is working.

 

[stupei]

Maybe I'm too honest, but I can't say I disagree with them. I can easily imagine that police was like "kids today are so weird...why she doesn't get a real job". This way of thinking is very stupid, but that's how common people would react.
Also, her answer is even worse. It's important what? Videogames are just games. Who cares?

I'm assuming you've never watched her videos.

She states pretty clearly how she thinks the negative and stereotypical portrayals of women in games can impact the consumer, and in particular suggests that those who are likely to be uncritical of the media they consume -- it's just games, after all -- are the people most likely to accept the coded messages and subtext at face value and allow it to become a part of their unconscious understanding of the world. Whether or not you agree with this assessment, it's still pretty obvious why she thinks her work is important. Not strange at all.

And obviously a lot of people care quite a bit, or she wouldn't be getting harassed.

 

[SerTapTap]

Maybe I'm too honest, but I can't say I disagree with them. I can easily imagine that police was like "kids today are so weird...why she doesn't get a real job". This way of thinking is very stupid, but that's how common people would react.
Also, her answer is even worse. It's important what? Videogames are just games. Who cares?

There's no "just _____" when _____ is a multi-billion dollar industry.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

What are you looking at, exactly? Because the petition I'm seeing isn't any sort of attack on anyone. It's very clear and explicit in what it wants:

Is there some part of that you disagree with?

I'm starting to think that if someone takes offense at "being lumped with X" with no evidence that this is what's happening, maybe the shoe fits... why else would anyone be so damn defensive?

Jesus fucking christ.

 

[Zxrophantom]

When a teacher says, "Students, don't talk in class," do you immediately shout, "Hey, not everyone was talking!" or do you parse out that if you weren't doing the thing being criticized then the critique is not directed at you?



No matter what you do for a living, I can't really think it's productive for police to tell someone, "Why don't you just quit your job?" in response to harassment.

I think its pretty crappy for the police to say that but i don't really agree with the example you used about labels. I think a teacher giving a command to a whole group is a little different than making a statement about a whole group. Saying "class don't talk" is one thing, but saying "you students are terrible" is another and more in line with what is happening now. It does not serve the good students in class at all when the teacher keep saying and treating the whole class like its terrible from top to bottom.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

I understand the context of what you're saying, but it is pretty difficult to find an appropriate big budget game to play with my girlfriend for about a hundred reasons.

Wii U. It's a girlfriend game machine. Mine doesn't like games at all but she spent the whole weekend making Miis to drive around in Mario Kart. And she loved being the rabbit in Super Luigi because he's invincible or using boost mode in Mario U because she just has to help.

 

[Orayn]

I think its pretty crappy for the police to say that but i don't really agree with the example you used about labels. I think a teacher giving a command to a whole group is a little different than making a statement about a whole group. Saying "class don't talk" is one thing, but saying "you students are terrible" is another and more in line with what is happening now. It does not serve the good students in class at all when the teacher keep saying and treating the whole class like its terrible from top to bottom.

Anita is not the one doing that. The GamerGate thing is about articles published on several different sites, none of which were written by her.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

You have now compared being a gamer to being black and being a Muslim. Self-identifying as a label derived from purchasing habits is and always will be a choice, and isn't really the same as belonging to an oppressed minority group. Someone cannot choose to not be black.

I don't really see how they're comparable, but I guess that's where we differ.

People create their own identities. They choose what to identify as. There is no list of valid identities somewhere that everyone has to pick from.

I'm starting to think that if someone takes offense at "being lumped with X" with no evidence that this is what's happening, maybe the shoe fits... why else would anyone be so damn defensive?

Are you accusing me of being a misogynist?

 

[Aeana]

Videogames are just games. Who cares?

She does. You can figure this out because she said it.
It's also important to me, and many others. You can reduce anything you like to "just ____" when it isn't a basic need for survival, but that doesn't mean there aren't other important things in life to different people besides basic necessities.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

I understand the context of what you're saying, but it is pretty difficult to find an appropriate big budget game to play with my girlfriend for about a hundred reasons.

My girlfriend became a gamer thanks to Dark Souls.

 

[DoktorEvil]

I'm assuming you've never watched her videos.

She states pretty clearly how she thinks the negative and stereotypical portrayals of women in games can impact the consumer, and in particular suggests that those who are likely to be uncritical of the media they consume -- it's just games, after all -- are the people most likely to accept the coded messages and subtext at face value and allow it to become a part of their unconscious understanding of the world. Whether or not you agree with this assessment, it's still pretty obvious why she thinks her work is important. Not strange at all.

And obviously a lot of people care quite a bit, or she wouldn't be getting harassed.

It's not strange at all but considering she's talking to police, it would be nice to explain why what she believes what she's doing is important.. We have critical analysis of violence in cinema/tv and in music, as well as sex in movies/tv/music. Why is what she's doing any different?

I don't see college professors harassed online for their opinions of stereotypes in media.

Is that why she's attacked? Because shes not in a college hall doing this?

 

[Wereroku]

My girlfriend became a gamer thanks to Dark Souls.

Yep my lady is really into Bloodborne of all the games I have shown her.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

It's not strange at all but considering she's talking to police, it would be nice to explain why what she believes what she's doing is important.. We have critical analysis of violence in cinema/tv and in music, as well as sex in movies/tv/music. Why is what she's doing any different?

I don't see college professors harassed online for their opinions of stereotypes in media.

Is that why she's attacked? Because shes not in a college hall doing this?

She's attacked because this is how gamers are. It doesn't matter if it's only 1% of us, this is a 1% that, as you say, doesn't notably exist in other similar mediums. We have a lot of work to do.

 

[Ponn]

I'm starting to think that if someone takes offense at "being lumped with X" with no evidence that this is what's happening, maybe the shoe fits... why else would anyone be so damn defensive?
.

this is the kind of stuff i've been seeing on twitter. it's getting ugly.

No clue to why people would be defensive /S

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

No clue to why people would be defensive /S

I would ask that without sarcasm. I understand exactly the type of person they're talking about.

If this is the popular opinion of my hobby, I'd be more into trying to fix that instead of reacting in such a way that it proves them right.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Maybe I'm too honest, but I can't say I disagree with them. I can easily imagine that police was like "kids today are so weird...why she doesn't get a real job". This way of thinking is very stupid, but that's how common people would react.
Also, her answer is even worse. It's important what? Videogames are just games. Who cares?

Playing devil's advocate here, but I would like to know the context of the discussion.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Q: "Why are people so defensive?"
A:

Are you accusing me of being a misogynist?

....lol.

No clue to why people would be defensive /S

I am a gamer, and I am not offended by these tweets. I wonder how I manage to do that.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

Q: "Why are people so defensive?"
A:
....lol.

What exactly does "I'm starting to think that if someone takes offense at "being lumped with X" with no evidence that this is what's happening, maybe the shoe fits... why else would anyone be so damn defensive?" mean? If you want to insult people just come out and do it.

 

[tanod]

That's really messed up. Who are these people who not only think like this but also make threats like this? I don't understand people like that at all.

About as many public racists as there are on facebook. Probably worse.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

Kinda reminds me of that Louis CK bit.

I’m not saying that white people are better. I’m saying that being white is clearly better, who could even argue? If it was an option, I would re-up ever year. 'Oh yeah I’ll take white again absolutely, I’ve been enjoying that, I’ll stick with white thank you.' Here’s how great it is to be white, I could get in a time machine and go to any time, and it would be fucking awesome when I get there! That is exclusively a white privilege. Black people can’t fuck with time machines.....

If you’re white and you don’t admit that it’s great, you’re an asshole! It is great and I’m a man. How many advantages can one person have? I’m a white man, you can’t even hurt my feelings! What can you really call a white man that really digs deep? 'Hey cracker!' ... 'Oh, ruined my day. Boy, shouldn’t have called me a cracker, bringing me back to owning land and people. What a drag.'

I'm not trying to say those tweets are nice or anything, just that there is a proportional difference among insults vis a vis who the giver and recipient are, in addition to content.

 

[RooMHM]

She's attacked because this is how gamers are. It doesn't matter if it's only 1% of us, this is a 1% that, as you say, doesn't notably exist in other similar mediums. We have a lot of work to do.

I m sorry? If I remember right Lucas receives lots of death threats all the time. I m not saying it s alright but this situation clearly isn t unique to video games.

 

[shandy706]

I find tweets like this just way too perfect.

Would the Police really tell you to quit your job/work over threats?

I am a good friend of a number of officers, and my best friend's brother is a State Trooper. Telling someone to quit their job, because someone doesn't like them, and threatened them, is NOT something he would say to a victim.

 

[Ponn]

Q: "Why are people so defensive?"
A:
....lol.


I am a gamer, and I am not offended by these tweets. I wonder how I manage to do that.

Oh I see, people don't really want evidence for being defensive its a guilt by association thing more us vs. them with us or not thing. Gotcha.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I find tweets like this just way too perfect.

Would the Police really tell you to quit your job/work over threats?

I am a good friend of a number of officers, and my best friend's brother is a State Trooper. Telling someone to quit their job, because someone doesn't like them, and threatened them, is NOT something he would say to a victim.

Are you saying she's lying?

 

[Marvel]

Goddammit, Internet.

Immediately what I thought.

Terrible.

 

[shandy706]

Are you saying she's lying?

No, but I'm saying that is not something the officers I am around would say.

Maybe she was talking to an inconsiderate/stupid police officer?

Typically when someone is threatened they would offer help, not tell you "maybe you should stop doing that".

That's like saying that because your friends have never shot an unarmed black man, no cop would ever shoot an unarmed black man.

See the above, maybe she got the idiot of the bunch.

That would be a perfect world, but I heard of a cop saying similar things to a friend's face after her rape.

He should immediately be fired. I hope your friend and yourself turned this office in and he no longer has a job.

So you guys believe that it's 100% accurate to a conversation between her and an acting officer? I don't know, neither do you. I can only convey my experience around those that are close to me. It doesn't eliminate the stupid/inconsiderate officers or the possibility that she may be molding those tweets. (or even a bit of a mix of both)

 

[Stet]

I find tweets like this just way too perfect.

Would the Police really tell you to quit your job/work over threats?

I am a good friend of a number of officers, and my best friend's brother is a State Trooper. Telling someone to quit their job, because someone doesn't like them, and threatened them, is NOT something he would say to a victim.

That's like saying that because your friends have never shot an unarmed black man, no cop would ever shoot an unarmed black man.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Typically when someone is threatened they would offer help, not tell you "maybe you should stop doing that".

That would be a perfect world, but I heard of a cop saying similar things to a friend's face after her rape.

 

[Mesoian]

My girlfriend became a gamer thanks to Dark Souls.

So what's she going to play next?

Spoiler

Alternate ending: the souls games are hardly big budget, they're just budgeted well, it's how Dark and Demon ended up doing so well in the long run.

That would be a perfect world, but I heard of a cop saying similar things to a friend's face after her rape.

I've heard the cops say the same thing after someone's car got jacked. "You're white and you drive a Mercedes, you shouldn't be in Oakland. You don't need to be here."

 

[WARP10CK]

Are you saying she's lying?

No I believe her for one heard simmliar from cops but I somehow picture this guy as the cop

 

[hoopvillian]

Are you saying she's lying?

No, but I'm saying that is not something the officers I am around would say.

Maybe she was talking to an inconsiderate/stupid police officer?

Typically when someone is threatened they would offer help, not tell you "maybe you should stop doing that".

That's like saying that because your friends have never shot an unarmed black man, no cop would ever shoot an unarmed black man.

Or that someone would never lie in a tweet, especially someone with an agenda.

 

[AlucardGV]

Are you saying she's lying?

well, we can't really prove it. it's not the first time that someone try to deceive people on internet, uh.
now, i'm not blaming the victim but i'm just don't eat anything that people throws at me.

 

[Zxrophantom]

Anita is not the one doing that. The GamerGate thing is about articles published on several different sites, none of which were written by her.

yeah, I was just pointing out two different points. I agree that it was silly of the police to say that about Anita but the second point was directed at the poster with the student example.

 

[Oersted]

Maybe I'm too honest, but I can't say I disagree with them. I can easily imagine that police was like "kids today are so weird...why she doesn't get a real job". This way of thinking is very stupid, but that's how common people would react.
Also, her answer is even worse. It's important what? Videogames are just games. Who cares?

You have a Mega Man avatar, your username is MegamanPoweredUP, you are on a gaming forum with long waiting times for getting an account, you post in this very thread with a screenshot of her Tweet...
Let me guess, the answer is that you care?

 

[besada]

I find tweets like this just way too perfect.

I find posts like this too perfect.

They aren't actually calling anyone a liar, they're just insinuating it, so they can back away if someone calls them on it.

 

[Gestault]

Are you saying she's lying?

Since the accusation is being implied (and the negative ramifications of doing so would already be involved), I'd like to see the inappropriate behavior by the police department brought to light. Which would mean filing a report, because it would make a record of awful reactions to a victim by an officer or staff. Police aren't exactly known for progressive social views.

 

[Kiriku]

Loads of the people identified as not devs on that list are devs. If the argument is about programming then the author should stop using the broader term, not the people he listed. Say engineering or programming if that's what you mean.

Yeah, that list seems unreliable, just did a quick, random check and the person didn't even bother to do some proper research (marked a AC Unity level designer as 'not a game dev', because the game wasn't listed on mobygames, for example).

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Or that someone would never lie in a tweet, especially someone with an agenda.

You'd have to then believe she'd throw away all of this and any credibility any woman wanting to discuss social responsibility in gaming would ever have with this audience. That's a pretty big stretch.

 

[Corpekata]

I find tweets like this just way too perfect.

Would the Police really tell you to quit your job/work over threats?

I am a good friend of a number of officers, and my best friend's brother is a State Trooper. Telling someone to quit their job, because someone doesn't like them, and threatened them, is NOT something he would say to a victim.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/do-police-take-online-threats-against-women-seriously/

Lots of examples of similar stuff here. Some police are really out of touch with the internet.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

So what's she going to play next?

Spoiler

Alternate ending: the souls games are hardly big budget, they're just budgeted well, it's how Dark and Demon ended up doing so well in the long run.

She's pretty far into Dragon Age right now and seems to be enjoying herself.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

What exactly does "I'm starting to think that if someone takes offense at "being lumped with X" with no evidence that this is what's happening, maybe the shoe fits... why else would anyone be so damn defensive?" mean? If you want to insult people just come out and do it.

Huh? I don't want to insult anyone, I'm trying to understand why anyone would be defensive or offended by things that (supposedly) don't apply to them.

Oh I see, people don't really want evidence for being defensive its a guilt by association thing more us vs. them with us or not thing. Gotcha.

...I have literally no idea what you just said. :\

 

[Gestault]

Huh? I don't want to insult anyone, I'm trying to understand why anyone would be defensive or offended by things that (supposedly) don't apply to them.

When you say "I'm not saying [negative thing], but if the shoe fits, why else are you so defensive?" most people take that as an insult.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

Huh? I don't want to insult anyone, I'm trying to understand why anyone would be defensive or offended by things that (supposedly) don't apply to them.

You don't understand why someone would be offended by generalizations about a group to which he believes himself to belong?

 

[Mesoian]

I find tweets like this just way too perfect.

Would the Police really tell you to quit your job/work over threats?

I am a good friend of a number of officers, and my best friend's brother is a State Trooper. Telling someone to quit their job, because someone doesn't like them, and threatened them, is NOT something he would say to a victim.

#notallcops

 

[Jarate]

Where are you seeing that it's a police secretary?

If that is just an assumption, it's pretty good at demonstrating that some of the points in her work are right.

Have you ever called the police before?

You dont directly call a police officer when you call 911, you talk to a person who forwards either forwards you to said police officer that you wish to speak with, or tells the cops/district attorney/whatever is appropriate.

Also, if you are making this out to be somehow me being against genders by saying secretary, then a secretary does not imply a female or a man, it's a genderless position filled by someone who applied for the job.