You're talking about ranking. I'm talking about what the actual game was moment-to-moment, before resilience and HP inflation slowed everything way down. Obviously the honor grind was terrible.
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Try to explain to me WoW vanilla
- Thread starter MrMatt555
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You're talking about ranking. I'm talking about what the actual game was moment-to-moment, before resilience and HP inflation slowed everything way down. Obviously the honor grind was terrible.
Most of those shards used just to summon lazy people in, and you had to keep making through clearing trash because after every single pull all the melee would ask you for another healthstone - and they actually needed them to end the pull alive.
Raiding was truly a chore for most people, but the experience of running around killing (?) baddies with 39 other people made up for it. Sometimes.
Here's the scary part; notice all these people mentioning broken stat distribution, unfinished areas, fairly borked pvp, few viable builds for raiding, etc, etc? Even with all this and more Vanilla WOW was ten times friendlier and more polished than any other MMO available. It also had more content to start than games that had been around since the 90's, basically everything besides EQ and AC.
I soloed until the high 20's with a naked mage with no points in talents. Very fun experience. WOW was the real reason I built a PC again in the mid 00's.
I soloed until the high 20's with a naked mage with no points in talents. Very fun experience. WOW was the real reason I built a PC again in the mid 00's.
Barrens chat, dude. A third of the horde continent was essentially AIM with ransoms from your server. I wasn't a high level, but I was well known in chat bc people just idly talked
Also the game was fucking grindy as hell and I never really progressed far until Outlands or WoTLK released. I think if wow found a way to get the server wide communities back with all the gameplay WoL improvements it'd be way better. Mounts were a huuuuuuuge deal back then too. Getting a singular gold was an achievement for me in middle school
Also the game was fucking grindy as hell and I never really progressed far until Outlands or WoTLK released. I think if wow found a way to get the server wide communities back with all the gameplay WoL improvements it'd be way better. Mounts were a huuuuuuuge deal back then too. Getting a singular gold was an achievement for me in middle school
Yeah I miss it. I didn't know what the hell I was doing when I started to play. I made the track from Darnassus to Ironforge to check out the AH, and it was pretty memorable.. Didn't know where to go or what to do.
I remember the trek up to Scarlet Monastery, it took such a long time to make our way up there. There wasn't any summoning stones, so unless you were lucky and had a warlock to summon everyone had to make their own way up. I never did get into raiding in Vanilla though.
WoW no seems so impersonal. Last time I played I got yelled at because I was lower in the DPS rankings. It is all just GO GO GO, finish this instance in 15 minutes, disband, no talking, nothing. I made many lifetime friends in vanilla WoW. I don't think that would happen under the current system. I haven't played in a few years but I don't have any real desire to get back into it.
I loved playing my protection spec paladin when it was still a shit spec. I was able to take a ton of damage and even defeated a level 40+ warrior when I was somewhere around 32.
I had a friend going for the Grand Marshal title. 16+ hour pvp days for months.
I remember the trek up to Scarlet Monastery, it took such a long time to make our way up there. There wasn't any summoning stones, so unless you were lucky and had a warlock to summon everyone had to make their own way up. I never did get into raiding in Vanilla though.
WoW no seems so impersonal. Last time I played I got yelled at because I was lower in the DPS rankings. It is all just GO GO GO, finish this instance in 15 minutes, disband, no talking, nothing. I made many lifetime friends in vanilla WoW. I don't think that would happen under the current system. I haven't played in a few years but I don't have any real desire to get back into it.
I loved playing my protection spec paladin when it was still a shit spec. I was able to take a ton of damage and even defeated a level 40+ warrior when I was somewhere around 32.
I had a friend going for the Grand Marshal title. 16+ hour pvp days for months.
Something else vanilla had was just great dungeon design, before every dungeon became a linear winged hallway. The EQ influence was still there and it was still possible for someone new to become lost in great dungeons like Stratholme. I don't think anything has come close to dethroning BRD for best dungeon design in an MMO and it's been 13 years.
That's a good point. You could go into BRD, DM, or Strat and spend hours. I thought the dungeon design from there through TBC Heroics was great. Nowadays it's a quick in/out, but I'm not sure people would tolerate the early days dungeons now.
Mo'fukkin' SUL'THRAZE. My friends and I grinded for a long time to get that stupid greatsword. There was also the hunter weapon. Can't remember the name but having a class-specific quest reward a special item was the BEST. The fact that you had to solo it meant if someone had it they knew what the hell they were doing as a hunter.
Granted, when thottbot started having strats in the comments it became less of a status symbol. I think people found ways to do it with several people, too?
Barrens Chat was still a thing in TBC too. I would be waiting around in Crossroads for no reason other than to Barrens chat.
I used to have fun with my warlock friend getting newbies to summon an infernal and then watching them attack it and die.
The most common counter-argument I hear is that people don't want to spend hours upon hours clearing out a huge sprawling dungeon, but that seems like such a non-problem to me when the player community would organically compartmentalize the dungeons into specific routes and runs. Helped that there wasn't any overt instance objective mechanic in place at that time either to flat out tell you when the dungeon had been completed.
TheSadRanger
Banned
Thottbott was legit, that was my go to site before Wowhead.
God that shit was so helpful.
Man screw Wowhead, I got a freaking virus from that site which resulted in my account getting hacked. That site was a fucking virus trap.
Still is. I recommend using ublock origin for Wowhead. Site's ownership clearly don't care, probably so they can sell the ad-free premium service. Scummy.
The fact that you had to be someone on the server to see all the raid content. Not necessarily a celebrity, but at least someone. On my server, there were only a handful guilds doing the highest end content, and you had to apply through their respective websites to get in. For that, you had to have certain gear, certain skills or know someone, etc. Experience was valuable too. I kind of liked that aspect, and it's something no game developer would do these days.
SillyEskimo
Member
It wast he logical and clear upgrade to the foundation that EQ1 had built. WoL improvements from the very first quest up to the very first raid. I played EQ1 for 5yrs. I've been playing WoW since launch. WoW is as good now as it has ever been.
I don't think there will ever be another MMO as far as capturing the zeitgeist.
As a bonus, I am also still in my very first WoW guild playing with many of the exact same people. My wife, best friend, brothers, sister, and father also play.
I don't think there will ever be another MMO as far as capturing the zeitgeist.
As a bonus, I am also still in my very first WoW guild playing with many of the exact same people. My wife, best friend, brothers, sister, and father also play.
A Serious Man
Member
WoW turned into a cautionary tale about how QoL "improvements" can suck the soul out of a game. Making every 5-man a bite-size speed run was one of the main reasons I stopped playing. WotLK was when dungeons really went to shit.
Mercador
Member
https://youtu.be/N2961p9-FTs
Hours of fun. That and the great lift. Being a priest Night elf helped a lot, since I was in shadowmeld and appeared only at the end of the spell.
Hours of fun. That and the great lift. Being a priest Night elf helped a lot, since I was in shadowmeld and appeared only at the end of the spell.
RedSparrows
Member
I am convinced there's a middle-ground between the sprawl and the ease. I don't like the current 'no chat, run in, get loot, leave' feel, but I also understand that for some old-school BRD just isn't sensible to even try given the time involved.
BigJonsson
Member
I'm glad I didn't play vanilla, I started towards the end of TBC, sounds like a nightmare 
hanspampel
Banned
Best WoW
Even burning crusade was still great.
After that...
Even burning crusade was still great.
After that...
fierrotlepou
Member
It's still the best gaming memory ever. It came out when I was 13 years old and everything was perfect. It was the first big MMO I came into contact with and I played it together with my best friend.
It was incredible and I'm sad that I'll probably never get the same feeling again. Diablo 3 came close, but no cigar.
It was incredible and I'm sad that I'll probably never get the same feeling again. Diablo 3 came close, but no cigar.
I mean, a lot has changed, most of it I think in a way that drove away some of the community. In many ways, Raids themselves were made "for everyone" friendly after vanilla. Anyone can raid, anyone can have success, everyone can be epiced out, all with little to no effort.
In Vanilla, even having ONE epic item meant you really accomplished something. Having a full set of t1, t2, or t3 gear meant you were likely a legit good player. If you had a legendary - you were some next level player (even though it probably took your whole guild helping you out).
If you were part of a raiding guild, it also felt like there was much more pride in the guild you were in. Because having a true 40 man raiding guild that even raided once per week, let alone a few days or more, were far and few inbetween and there was always a sense of pride in representing that guild. Even non raiding members of the guild would help the raiding members by farming materials and such.
Wow went from something I knew I'd have to sink 5+ hours in every time I login in vanilla to a more "I can just pop in for 30 minutes" kind of game. Today I can login and be raiding with randoms in the matter of minute and literally dip out after any boss battle anytime I want without even feeling bad about it. I don't ha v eto commit to finishing a random raid because I don't owe anything to those random players.
Back then,m if I logged in to raid it was this huge event, we all get on ventrillo or teamspeak, and I'm in it for the whole night.
Mister Zimbu
Member
Unfortunately the player-friendly QoL improvements and community aspects are completely mutually exclusive. I'll treasure the experience from Vanilla and TBC forever, but nowadays it wouldn't hold up. Most people just want to run a dungeon right now, rather than have to shout around in trade chat for 30-120 minutes.
Even the Mythic group finder nowadays can be unbearable and that's orders of magnitude more convenient than LFG was from Vanilla-mid WotLK.
Raids were only difficult for the first few tiers because of ridiculous grinds, cattle herding, and because nobody had any idea how the game worked, including Blizzard.
I always thought a good idea that would be a good balance between a huge thoughtful design like the BRD, Strat, etc. and the modern approach of having to queue to a dungeon to complete it would be to have a huge sprawling dungeon with multiple paths and 10-15 bosses, but have the Random Heroic / Mythic+ version of it pick a specific path and set of bosses for it that changes each day.
Paths would converge on each other at certain points, so there'd be multiple permutations of layouts rather than just 4 different paths.
Mythic versions could let the player run it in any order they wish.
Even the Mythic group finder nowadays can be unbearable and that's orders of magnitude more convenient than LFG was from Vanilla-mid WotLK.
Raids were only difficult for the first few tiers because of ridiculous grinds, cattle herding, and because nobody had any idea how the game worked, including Blizzard.
I always thought a good idea that would be a good balance between a huge thoughtful design like the BRD, Strat, etc. and the modern approach of having to queue to a dungeon to complete it would be to have a huge sprawling dungeon with multiple paths and 10-15 bosses, but have the Random Heroic / Mythic+ version of it pick a specific path and set of bosses for it that changes each day.
Paths would converge on each other at certain points, so there'd be multiple permutations of layouts rather than just 4 different paths.
Mythic versions could let the player run it in any order they wish.
Moff
Member
raidfinder, groufinder and especially crossrealm pvp killed the community, and they came soon. they game itself has improved a lot over time, though. I actually love Legion and think it's the best wow, yet. but I still had my best time in vanilla because of the community and I still play with some people from those 13 years ago.
I felt like the only Rogue trying to PVE, since the class was mostly aimed at PVP ganking it seemed.
Only one viable spec, Combat Daggers (look in the dictionary under tedious), we even had a throwing weapon talent iirc...
World felt huge, still remember my first Griffin ride to IF, seeing lvl 50's in the Burning Steppes and wondering just how badass they must be. Raiding guilds were hanging in IF like pimps, with T3 sets that only a tiny % ever had a chance to get, but I liked that, felt like a bigger world with so much to aim for.
Only one viable spec, Combat Daggers (look in the dictionary under tedious), we even had a throwing weapon talent iirc...
World felt huge, still remember my first Griffin ride to IF, seeing lvl 50's in the Burning Steppes and wondering just how badass they must be. Raiding guilds were hanging in IF like pimps, with T3 sets that only a tiny % ever had a chance to get, but I liked that, felt like a bigger world with so much to aim for.
I just remember never doing raids because I got tired of the endless cycle of "raids take too long so we do stuff in the background" and "distracted players causing things to take too long". Most raids would take 1/4 of the time without distracted players, but it took too much mental fortitude for a lot of people to pay attention to the game for 1 hour straight.
I stopped raiding hardcore around the end of BC after going through a couple big guild collapses, and me and a few close friends just kind of decided to chill in our own little guild from then on. For a couple years, we got really into 49 twink pvp, haha. I miss those days.
We still kind of float in and out of WoW from time to time, but none of us play with any real consistency anymore. Usually just for a couple months around each expansion launch.
We still kind of float in and out of WoW from time to time, but none of us play with any real consistency anymore. Usually just for a couple months around each expansion launch.
Many of the things people post here also apply in Burning Crusade.
You had to look for people in your own server for do dungeons, mounts were still expensive and something of a luxury (as a Paladin, I had to ask for help in my guild for enter Stratholme and do the Paladin quest), world PvP was still around on the old world (Tarren Mill vs Southshore), and of course, you had to do quests for enter the Raid Instances.
Kara will always be my one of my best experiences in WoW, mostly because it was a battleground outside the tower and how amazing was doing the raid.
While the additions like Dungeon Finder or Cross Realms improved the game, it also killed the community in many ways. No wonder people yearn for a Vanilla/BC servers so it can recreate that experience. I would sign in immediately if Blizzard opened a BC server.
You had to look for people in your own server for do dungeons, mounts were still expensive and something of a luxury (as a Paladin, I had to ask for help in my guild for enter Stratholme and do the Paladin quest), world PvP was still around on the old world (Tarren Mill vs Southshore), and of course, you had to do quests for enter the Raid Instances.
Kara will always be my one of my best experiences in WoW, mostly because it was a battleground outside the tower and how amazing was doing the raid.
While the additions like Dungeon Finder or Cross Realms improved the game, it also killed the community in many ways. No wonder people yearn for a Vanilla/BC servers so it can recreate that experience. I would sign in immediately if Blizzard opened a BC server.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Most of them were Combat-focused, but there were other viable specs than just Combat Daggers. Especially if you had Thunderfury
iirc, there was a dagger build that went 30+ deep into Assassination and did just fine in PvE. Over the course of my raiding career, I used everything under the sun. SF Hemo was probably the most out there and least effective, but it got the job done.
I still play as much as I can, though I've been on a work-imposed break lately.
The dungeon thing that I miss the most is the emphasis on skill and precision vs a speed run. I don't want to run it on a timer, but rather more like the early heroics were tuned where cc and such was important. I mostly played a paladin, but I have fond memories of the really tough early heroics when running on my warlock alt. We'd take 2 locks and chain fear all the stuff. Great times and total chaos. Oh hey, and I almost forgot succubus sleep!
I'm glad I didn't play vanilla, I started towards the end of TBC, sounds like a nightmare
You missed out on something unique, man.
The good things way outweighed the bad
BumperLips
Member
Besides most of what people have said about community and grinding/accomplishments, I believe the main thing was the lack of knowledge of the game. Or rather, the low speed at which knowledge of the game was transferred to other players. Since most stuff hits PTR nowadays, you mostly play it for the experience, not figuring out the unknown.
I didn't play vanilla, but the closest for me was playing FF14 ARR on launch. I had no clue about anything in that, and I don't think there were many sites with datamined info or were wowhead-like upon launch. And it was so much fun, that it was the best MMO experience I've ever had. Got to T5 coil right before the Twintania nerf (or bug fix I guess? The twister problem)
I didn't play vanilla, but the closest for me was playing FF14 ARR on launch. I had no clue about anything in that, and I don't think there were many sites with datamined info or were wowhead-like upon launch. And it was so much fun, that it was the best MMO experience I've ever had. Got to T5 coil right before the Twintania nerf (or bug fix I guess? The twister problem)
WoW is like the only game where I can listen to music from it and get legitimately sad.
Doesn't have to be some special track either. Just fire up some vanilla Barrens or Mulgore music and a thousand memories come back to me.
I cannot completely explain it but there is something magical about that soundtrack. It's as if it unlocks all those memories of me playing the game from launch until when I quit. All the guilds I was in. All the friendships I made. All the crazy experiences I had over the years.
Music is one of WoW's strongest points. Insane nostalgia value.
Doesn't have to be some special track either. Just fire up some vanilla Barrens or Mulgore music and a thousand memories come back to me.
I cannot completely explain it but there is something magical about that soundtrack. It's as if it unlocks all those memories of me playing the game from launch until when I quit. All the guilds I was in. All the friendships I made. All the crazy experiences I had over the years.
Music is one of WoW's strongest points. Insane nostalgia value.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
I was a Tauren Shaman in i think it was ISIS(ISLE) guild. I remember Ihorde and the warrior with Sulfuras who just kept saying no soup for you when he killed someone from Alliance. Anyone remember ThePlague the top PVPER shadow Priest.
That was Farq! "No soup for U!" Lol. He's favorite target were gnomes
I remember ISLE, yeah. And we were talking about ThePlague just before. He was Bulgarian I think. A legend
Wow, so many Dragonmaw players here...amazing!
PS: I was a Tauren Shamie also. 400+ days played on him, that's over 10.000h, from Vanilla to Cataclysm
I'd rather play vanilla but you're definitely right and yeah BC had way better PvE content.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
That was Farq! "No soup for U!" Lol. He's favorite target were gnomes
I remember ISLE, yeah. And we were talking about ThePlague just before. He was Bulgarian I think. A legend
Wow, so many Dragonmaw players here...amazing!
PS: I was a Tauren Shamie also. 400+ days played on him, that's over 10.000h, from Vanilla to Cataclysm
I quit shortly before BC came out never returned.
Coming from Everquest, WoW felt like I was playing a decked out twink character in EQ without any sense of danger while exploring. I'm sure it was difficult and shit for first time mmo players, but it was probably pretty easy going for most people who played mmos before it. However, I appreciated how easy it was, because I could no longer dedicate as much time to gaming anymore. Also, WoW would have never been so popular with EQ's difficulty in place, so they definitely made the right call on that one.
In very short, virtually everything was so unrewarding comparitively that it was far less about chasing that carrot on a stick and more about playing with other people, or playing for the sake of playing.
Some of the most pointless things in the game were a wonder on their own just for the fact they existed.
Some of the most pointless things in the game were a wonder on their own just for the fact they existed.
Started playing after BC but I can relate to quite a few comments ITT.
The automatic dungeon finder saves you some hassle and everything, but I do kinda miss actually going to the place.
I feel like I missed a lot of the map by just hitting the random dungeon button and being instantly teleported into the instance without knowing where the fuck it is in the world, why it matters to said region...
QoL improvements made me lazy, without a doubt.
The automatic dungeon finder saves you some hassle and everything, but I do kinda miss actually going to the place.
I feel like I missed a lot of the map by just hitting the random dungeon button and being instantly teleported into the instance without knowing where the fuck it is in the world, why it matters to said region...
QoL improvements made me lazy, without a doubt.
The game cared less about if everyone had a fair shot at everything, and the realms were tight knit communities due to no realm sharing and stuff. I certainly understand why they shifted the way they did, but vanilla was pretty damn special. It was also a different time for me, with practically no responsibilities in life, so I know that plays into the enjoyment.
My very first day playing, I had just made it to Ironforge when it was suddenly announced that a well-known player had ninja'd Baron Rivendare's mount and her group were furious - it was all anyone was talking about. Then she showed up and rode it up and down the central forge, and it was the closest WoW can get to a riot.
Also, remember how you used to level up proficiency with each individual weapon class? Every time I dinged, I'd get obsessive about maxing them all out so I'd go running down the mountain punching bears.
Also, remember how you used to level up proficiency with each individual weapon class? Every time I dinged, I'd get obsessive about maxing them all out so I'd go running down the mountain punching bears.
My question is can a game do the same thing now and pull it off or is everybody into the quality of life improvements too much to allow such a thing again? Is this why nobody can truly recreate Vanilla, even TBC WoW again? Have people got too lazy? Is it too hard to rely on a community established within a game?
If blizzard came out and said WoW2. It's vanilla WoW (even TBC) but with a new engine so the game plays smoothly, the graphics don't look over 10 years old (garbage), and the vanish bug is gone forever. Will it work? I know I would at least give it a shot.
If blizzard came out and said WoW2. It's vanilla WoW (even TBC) but with a new engine so the game plays smoothly, the graphics don't look over 10 years old (garbage), and the vanish bug is gone forever. Will it work? I know I would at least give it a shot.
I am not sure if I could stomach the grindiness of WoW Vanilla today (played since EU launch, but paused a few times during Vanilla and every other expansion). However, the community was amazing and that missing is probably the saddest part. While I admit I played most of the time with friends and guild members, if I actually went with random people, they actually talked in chat. Something that barely happens at all today.
Aside from that, the wonder of exploring anything since it was my first MMO. I will never experience anything like that unless we get a Virtual Reality MMO anytime in the near future.
I still play WoW and I still like it. Bosses having actual mechanics instead of being Tank & Spank for 99% of the fights (outside of raids, but even there it wasn't much better in the beginning) is definitly the thing I like most, same goes for the mobs using actual skills. The tuning being low is a completely different thing, but with the scaling technology and Mythic+, this isn't as much of an issue.
But really, it is hard to describe what made Vanilla great or bad. No matter what you tell people, it was an experience that will never come back.
Aside from that, the wonder of exploring anything since it was my first MMO. I will never experience anything like that unless we get a Virtual Reality MMO anytime in the near future.
I still play WoW and I still like it. Bosses having actual mechanics instead of being Tank & Spank for 99% of the fights (outside of raids, but even there it wasn't much better in the beginning) is definitly the thing I like most, same goes for the mobs using actual skills. The tuning being low is a completely different thing, but with the scaling technology and Mythic+, this isn't as much of an issue.
But really, it is hard to describe what made Vanilla great or bad. No matter what you tell people, it was an experience that will never come back.
Wafflecakes
Member
Vanilla was a hot mess, but it was our hot mess and I loved it and BC. I never really got into endgame until WOTLK, so I don't have much to say on that end. I did no end game in Vanilla, and only Kara in BC.
There were people everywhere, and many areas had quests (even low level quests) that would absolutely kick your ass if you didn't group. Hell, even if you did have a group it kicked your ass.
...and the higher levels were not plentiful or powerful enough in the early days to lay waste to zones and make these difficult areas meaningless.
If someone said I could go back in time and experience it again at the cost of two fingers and two toes I would do it in a heartbeat. Greatest gaming experience I ever had.
There were people everywhere, and many areas had quests (even low level quests) that would absolutely kick your ass if you didn't group. Hell, even if you did have a group it kicked your ass.
...and the higher levels were not plentiful or powerful enough in the early days to lay waste to zones and make these difficult areas meaningless.
If someone said I could go back in time and experience it again at the cost of two fingers and two toes I would do it in a heartbeat. Greatest gaming experience I ever had.
Best memories was during progression in bwl on burning blade, the guilds had to take turns wiping on bosses cause the server was so unstable.
Also the forums of each server were amazing. You became a mini celeb of the server and made friends with the opposite faction through there. I was on the horde, but because I was known on the forums, the big alliance guilds would leave me alone.
Oh and week long AV's were the best thing ever
Also the forums of each server were amazing. You became a mini celeb of the server and made friends with the opposite faction through there. I was on the horde, but because I was known on the forums, the big alliance guilds would leave me alone.
Oh and week long AV's were the best thing ever