Yeah. Even the Sun couldnt have stopped Blair in 97 for instance.
I'm still clinging to hope that when he finally dies his empire becomes a lot less effective at infesting the world with his right wing shite
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UK General Election - 8th June 2017 |OT| - The Red Wedding
- Thread starter Jezbollah
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Yeah. Even the Sun couldnt have stopped Blair in 97 for instance.
I'm still clinging to hope that when he finally dies his empire becomes a lot less effective at infesting the world with his right wing shite
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Labour are a shamble. Looks like Tories got an easy win again which I'm fine with.
PJV3
Member
It's the first one in a while without a real sense that the result is undecided , it's a shame from an excitement point of view.
I won't be getting punched in the stomach when the exit polls come out, I must look on the bright side
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Tories biggest card has been economics, something Labour has struggled with and failed to address in a convincing manner. Thats what I think.
In the previous two elections, perhaps. In this, I think Brexit (support for rather than opposition to) and its siblings immigration and security will be the key factors.
PJV3
Member
I didn't find Osborne that impressive even when he wasn't fucking up a budget or getting a forecast wrong.
He and Cameron were great at the party politics stuff and getting the public to believe them, I just think they made the recovery tougher than it needed to be.
Little Old Man
Member
Anyone else think that Johnson will be one of the most likely reshuffle victims in June? His machine gun mouth, and relative hot headedness are at total odds with her style of government and demeanour.
I kind of figured that's partly what making him Foreign Sec was for.
To let him expose himself as a fraud and then jettison him out of the cabinet.
PJV3
Member
Might happen, she's kept him out of the core election team and wants this to be her victory. I don't think she really cares if he annoys people abroad as it seems the average Tory finds it amusing.
They absolutely did but that's not the view of the general public, nor do they consider it especially relevant at the moment.
I'll quote Stephen Bush rather than plagiarise him:
"It's the classic Johnson gambit - a colourful way of appearing to be off-message while reinforcing the central message of the Conservative campaign: that this is an election about Brexit, and that the bigger the majority, the greater the chances that Britain will get a good Brexit deal."
Halph n Halph
Member
I think the attempts at reforming the welfare system have also struck a chord with your average working / middle class voters.
Anecdotal but, recently while having a drink the conversation turned to welfare benefit abuses and how taxpayers hate to see money going to those who don't deserve it .
They see John Smith who gets out of his bed at about 11am, heads to the shop for his cigarettes on his way to the pub for afternoon drinks and wonder how it works out for him while they spend the days working a job they hate for a life barely better than his.
A friend of mine even suggested going as far as making benefit payments in non transferable voucher form.
Watching Benefits Britain and Benefits St just serves to reinforce this and unfortunately the deserving get tarred with the same brush.
When they hear Corbyn chunnering on about food banks and welfare claimants living in poverty they don't see the genuinely needy they see John Smith.
I think that's why May's just about managings resonates so well .
This is true, but also an example of how successful the press can be at pushing an agenda. Sensationalised reports about "benefits scroungers" have been getting in the newspaper for the last decade at the very least.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Tony Blair continues to sound absolutely identical to the Lib Dem position. Same rhetoric, same viewpoints, same problems with Corbyn.
He has to actually snap and put on a yellow tie at some point.
He has to actually snap and put on a yellow tie at some point.
Jezbollah
Member
And thus the greatest tragedy is often shunned away from the limelight - those who actually want and seek work, and those who physically or mentally cannot work are bundled into that same group in terms of perspective, and get their financial support taken away. I don't think anyone who genuinely has any trace of humanity in them doesn't want to help contribute or see them given the help to overcome the difficulties in their lives.
It's also an example of how down-trodden and without-hope a lot of people in work are, now. I was on benefits a couple of years ago, and without a doubt, being in work gave me more hope for the future than not. If people are seriously looking at the unemployed and thinking "They've got it as good as I have, all things considered," there is something going wrong with a life in employment.
PJV3
Member
If Corbyn doesn't go then I expect fireworks after the election, I don't think a straight libdem takeover of labour MPs is the best plan, they have to try and make it look like something new.
Huw_Dawson
Member
"The Social Party" or "The Social European Party" or something, yeah.
I expect the party's centre-left to abandon them after this election. Corbyn will only go if another Trot is on the ballot paper, and that Trot will win if they repeat the £3-for-a-vote associate member thing.
Nevertheless, the opening lines of the Lib Dem constitution clearly state that we seek to be the successor party to the SDP...
IdreamofHIME
Member
He(his team?) got caught out by May's tactical election call. His master plan was to watch the Tories wreck the country until 2020 and then stand back and say "you want more of this"?
He's literally done nothing to gain momentum since Brexit vote, despite half the country disagreeing with the vote. He's also let the Tories become the 2nd party in Scotland.
PJV3
Member
The libdems do have to be careful of their right wing, a load of labour MPs slapping on yellow ties is going to scare people off, it depends if you think it would be worth it or not.
Ben Bradshaw types could probably fit in without too much trouble, I don't know how much people are looking at it in the background. Bradshaw is basically running as an independent this year.
"Vote for me, it won't make a difference", it's crazy that is his actual pitch.
This shit is disgusting.
https://twitter.com/LabourEoin/status/857358855013052416
Her response is just....
https://twitter.com/LabourEoin/status/857358855013052416
Her response is just....
Jezbollah
Member
I wonder if that happens if there will be a cascade effect from the left of the Lib Dems to the Greens maybe? I don't know if the left of Lib Dems aligns with them to be honest.
PJV3
Member
Yeah, I wasn't even thinking of that to be honest but yeah it's not an easy fit on both sides of the libdems. The labour MPs being a bit too authoritarian is going to spook them as well.
We will have to see who on the labour side survives the coming massacre.
Homeboy has skeletons in his closet. He's scared of the additional scrutiny that comes with leadership.
Doesn't he have Kompromat on him?
travisbickle
Member
I wanted to mention the similarities in global politics. Korea have an election next week and the front runner Moon JaeIn tripped up over a question about homosexuals in the army, saying he was disgusted and something needed to be done.
I think someone told him loads of young people voted at the last mid-terms so he's been back tracking since then. Funnily though, a lot of other politicians have been quick to tell everyone how non-homophobic they are, but one right-winger, not wanting to be outdone, made a statement saying he would arrest anyone commiting homosexual acts in public
I think someone told him loads of young people voted at the last mid-terms so he's been back tracking since then. Funnily though, a lot of other politicians have been quick to tell everyone how non-homophobic they are, but one right-winger, not wanting to be outdone, made a statement saying he would arrest anyone commiting homosexual acts in public
PJV3
Member
She will be safe for the next 5 years or Thatcher's downfall will look like a family day out in comparison.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Would you actually want that though?
Huw_Dawson
Member
Don't be silly.
And thus the greatest tragedy is often shunned away from the limelight - those who actually want and seek work, and those who physically or mentally cannot work are bundled into that same group in terms of perspective, and get their financial support taken away. I don't think anyone who genuinely has any trace of humanity in them doesn't want to help contribute or see them given the help to overcome the difficulties in their lives.
Yeah, some people have a weird mindset about it that I struggle to understand. Like, if you asked someone whether they want the needy to get help, most people would answer yes. But those kind of articles totally warp what people consider needy in the first place, just because of some extreme example like those who have like 15 kids and need 40k a year to feed them all, or the people who commit fraud to get on long term disability. They exist, but are an extreme minority, yet what many people associate the welfare system with
Go into any JobCentre and you'll see people who are trying get treated like absolute shit. Some of it is disgusting
You could have said the same about Cameron a year ago, you can never be that certain with British politics!
Speaking of Tony Blair, guess who's more popular?
I just don't understand this. What's a single positive thing she's implemented since becoming PM?
Huw_Dawson
Member
I just don't understand this. What's a single positive thing she's implemented since becoming PM?
Brexit. That's the be-all and end-all.
I have to go there every few months to hand in my note. The people that work there are way worse then 99% of people that go there. They treat every one like shit and like they are above them. Once I was feeling ill when I got there and was trying to calm my shit down. Only for a member of staff to start shouting into my face over and over about not being sick on their carpet. I said I won't and I am trying to calm myself down ( I was doing breathing exercises) and she just carried on shouting.
Camp Freddie
Member
People keep saying this, but if that's the case then why haven't they been revealed?
It's not a front page story, but "EXPOSED: The real reason Umunna won't be leader!" would at least earn a paycheck from Paul Dacre.
Theonik
Member
STRONG RELIABLE LEADERSHIP.
I just don't understand this. What's a single positive thing she's implemented since becoming PM?
ALSO JEREMY CORBYN WEARS A CHEAP SUIT.
VOTE CONSERVATIVE.
I was a carer for my Mum for 7 years and on JSA for a few months before that.
Whenever I went there for my annual checkups as a carer the staff I actually sat and spoke to were actually quite nice, but the others I overheard especially talking to the people on JSA during the recession made me feel sick almost.
I HATED going there. They make you feel like total scum, even when you're trying your best to find work.
RedSparrows
Member
I just don't understand this. What's a single positive thing she's implemented since becoming PM?
It's all relative. What that poll shows is that actually we have the lowest standards we've ever had.
Happens when everything becomes orientated around one immensely divisive issue and every other political leader is too small or too shit.
Huw_Dawson
Member
The next big Lib Dem Scandal: Farron says "smell my spaniel" to a voter.
May and Corbyn line up to denounce his clear insanity.
May and Corbyn line up to denounce his clear insanity.
31GhostsIV
Banned
The Tories are the party of economics? How did austerity work out again? What happened to the national debt since the Tories have been in power?
To me, the Tories are synonymous with abuse of the poor, a ruinous Brexit referendum and draconian surveillance laws while only the very wealthy benefit. A vote for them means you think these things are ok.
I just don't understand this. What's a single positive thing she's implemented since becoming PM?
Uncertain times = best times for conservatives.
It would be wasted to them unless it was used as an attack against a potential Labour PM. If they use it now, everyone forgets about it.
PJV3
Member
I just think he's a little bit of an empty suit, OK in a cabinet but not leading and coming up with the ideas for the whole agenda of a government.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Labour have a very thin herd of people I could see running the party, though. There are more good Lib Dem leader candidates than Labour ones right now.
This is theory, anyway - Labour is toast.
Yep, I get you.
JimiNutz
Banned
The benefits system in the UK does definitely need massive reform. I work in social housing and encounter entire families that are lifelong benefit abusers. Families where the grandparents don't work, the parents have never worked and now the children don't work. Often they live in homes that I, on a respectable combined income of over 75k would never be able to afford.
The bottom line is that the system isn't working when you have entire families living relatively comfortable lives without having to work. The current benefits system simply cannot maintain itself when you have people taking, taking, taking without paying anything in themselves. I know that there are many people that don't abuse the system but people shouldn't have the ability to abuse it in the first place. Its created an entire section of society that feel entitled to free benefits and who can blame them when they've been able to do it for so long.
Yes, I heard recently from someone who is voting Tory that they just can't stand "benefits scroungers". It's fair enough, but when you look at the actual cost of benefit fraud it's something like £1B compared to £30B in company tax evasion. And then you have the tories planning to cut another £64B from corporation tax over the next 5 years, which makes that £1B benefit fraud almost completely insignificant.
Huw_Dawson
Member
What proportion of benefits claimants are actually like that, though. That is a far more useful line of thinking than anecdotal evidence.
Pulling the rug underneath them isn't going to make things better.
It's all about education. That's the only way to break this generational cycle.
We have to, to a certain degree, "write off" the current generation and concentrate on the kids.
But that's not going to work if the kids have parents who can't afford to live somewhere half decent, not having to be moved around every 6 months and can't afford to feed them etc etc.
Generational benefits "lifestyle" is a problem, no doubt, a problem that Labour never really managed to do anything about.
But it's a problem for the people caught up in it, more than anything else. It's a "wasted" lifetime that should be filled with opportunities.
But it's hardly a problem for the UK debt.... it's fucking peanuts at the end of the day.
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