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[Engell]

I just think it's funny that foreigners have a better grasp on what is happening in Russia than the people actually living there.

 

[MysticX]

I just think it's funny that foreigners have a better grasp on what is happening in Russia than the people actually living there.

man, why doesn´t neogaf have a like button...spot on

either that or they are completely brainwashed

 

[Sinfamy]

I just think it's funny that foreigners have a better grasp on what is happening in Russia than the people actually living there.

Same can really be said about a lot of countries, especially the US.
An outside view has far less biases and a clearer lense not blurred by nationalism and conflicts of interest.

I get more US news from foreign sources than I would ever get from CNN, Fox and the likes.

 

[MisterFalcon]

You're twice as likely to die in a Russian then an American prison (564 deaths per 100,000 against 237) so how exactly is modern Russia better ?

https://inmoscowsshadows.wordpress.com/2013/02/28/russian-prisons-getting-more-lethal/

 

[Outcome]

You're twice as likely to die in a Russian then an American prison (564 deaths per 100,000 against 237) so how exactly is modern Russia better ?

https://inmoscowsshadows.wordpress.com/2013/02/28/russian-prisons-getting-more-lethal/

I guess because in Russia there's no death sentence and people who got life sentence do not live forever.

 

[Drazgul]

I guess because in Russia there's no death sentence and people who got life sentence do not live forever.

And I guess also because russian prisons are fucking brutal and totally inhumane.

 

[chadskin]

Putin tried to delay Ukraine ceasefire deal, EU summit told

The Russian president, Vladimir Putin, sought to delay agreement on a Ukrainian ceasefire at talks in Minsk because he wanted pro-Russia separatists to capture the eastern railway hub of Debaltseve, an EU summit has been told.

Three of the four leaders at the talks in Minsk – the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, France’s president, François Hollande, and Ukraine’s embattled president, Petro Poroshenko – dashed to the Brussels summit directly from Belarus.

Briefing 26 other EU heads of government on the fraught negotiations that resulted in a truce supposed to start on Sunday, the Minsk participants painted a picture that failed to inspire confidence.

Witnesses to the discussion said all the EU leaders were sceptical about the success of the Minsk peace plan, not least because Putin had resisted pressure for a ceasefire. He hoped to delay the truce by 10 days, the summit heard, in order to force the surrender of up to 8,000 Ukrainian troops who are surrounded in Debaltseve by pro-Russia separatists.

Putin was said to have made it clear that Debaltseve had to fall. In public remarks following the deal, Putin also said the separatists had the Ukrainian forces encircled and that “of course, they expect [the Ukrainians] to lay down their arms and cease resistance”.

On the Ukraine deal, the mood of the EU summit was sombre, with the leaders concluding that Putin was more interested in war than in peace.

On Friday, Poroshenko was similarly pessimistic. “I don’t want anyone to have any illusions and so I am not seen as a naive person: we are still a very long way from peace,” he said during a visit to a military training ground.

“Nobody has a strong belief that the peace conditions which were signed in Minsk will be implemented strictly.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/13/ukraine-service-personnel-killed-minsk-ceasefire

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

The Russian strategy: when in doubt, bring up World War 2.

I think most Putin Stans think that World War II is still happening honestly.

They are permanently trapped in the 1940s.

 

[Outcome]

And I guess also because russian prisons are fucking brutal and totally inhumane.

What do you want from low budget prisons if hotels in russia could be worse that the cell of Anders Breivik who murdered more then 70 people?

 

[jakonovski]

Outcome, you really need to learn the first rule of holes.

 

[Flambe]

Brevik aside, maybe educate yourself in Norway's rates of recidivism compared to, well most of the world let alone Russia (or the US). Looks like they're doing something right.
Your post perhaps speaks more to the Russian quality of life instead there Outcome.

 

[pants]

Putin tried to delay Ukraine ceasefire deal, EU summit told


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/13/ukraine-service-personnel-killed-minsk-ceasefire

The status of Debaltseve is still in dispute afaik (Ukraine says they are not surrounded while separatists say they are) . Given that it is a strategically important area that currently has thousands of Ukrainian troops on the ground, it's understandable why Ukraine would push to have the ceasefire now (in order to keep the territory) and for separatists to want to delay it so they can claim the area as they seemingly have the tactical advantage (surrounded Ukrainian troops) here.

The other options is the Ukrainian forces walking right out of there and giving it to the separatists, something I dont see happening or the separatists giving up their upper hand (something I see even less chance of happening).

 

[Resident_UA]

The status of Debaltseve is still in dispute afaik (Ukraine says they are not surrounded while separatists say they are) . Given that it is a strategically important area that currently has thousands of Ukrainian troops on the ground, it's understandable why Ukraine would push to have the ceasefire now (in order to keep the territory) and for separatists to want to delay it so they can claim the area as they seemingly have the tactical advantage (surrounded Ukrainian troops) here.

The other options is the Ukrainian forces walking right out of there and giving it to the separatists, something I dont see happening or the separatists giving up their upper hand (something I see even less chance of happening).

I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that separatists want Debaltseve. In fact that's the point of the article. Basically Putin was stalling peace talks so separatists could capture more land. This kind of reinforces theory that this is a blatant land grab by Russia. I don't see what your point is...

 

[pants]

I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that separatists want Debaltseve. In fact that's the point of the article. Basically Putin was stalling peace talks so separatists could capture more land. This kind of reinforces theory that this is a blatant land grab by Russia. I don't see what your point is...

The article isnt mentioning any of the context I added, which is why I did.

 

[Dictator93]

From what I have seen on maps (may or may not be acurate) Debaltseve is nto completely surrounded. More like a buldge kinda thing.

 

[pants]

From what I have seen on maps (may or may not be acurate) Debaltseve is nto completely surrounded. More like a buldge kinda thing.

Ukraine claims they are still fighting for a service road and some such, while the separatists claim they are surrounded. I'm inclined to believe the separatists here as bbc and other western outlets have been reporting Debaltseve surrounded despite Ukraine's claims to the contrary. I don't think it's likely they would do so unless it was reasonably certain.

 

[Resident_UA]

Ukraine claims they are still fighting for a service road and some such, while the separatists claim they are surrounded. I'm inclined to believe the separatists here as bbc and other western outlets have been reporting Debaltseve surrounded despite Ukraine's claims to the contrary. I don't think it's likely they would do so unless it was reasonably certain.

Well it really depends who means what. If you are talking about city itself - there's not many people there to begin with. The actual fighting is happening outside of the city. Ukrainian headquarters are saying that it is not surrounded. I guess the only reliable source are volunteers. They are saying that the road to Debaltseve is dangerous, but Ukrainian army still has access to it. There's definitely no separatists tanks on that road...

Also if you believe separatists you'd think Debaltseve was captured a month ago

 

[pants]

Well it really depends who means what. If you are talking about city itself - there's not many people there to begin with. The actual fighting is happening outside of the city. Ukrainian headquarters are saying that it is not surrounded. I guess the only reliable source are volunteers. They are saying that the road to Debaltseve is dangerous, but Ukrainian army still has access to it. There's definitely no separatists tanks on that road...

And these divergent claims, and both sides' unwillingness to budge an inch here is a large part of why the ceasefire talk has an extra added time sensitivity added to it. Which is why I brought it up because the article doesn't explain it well enough.

 

[Mgoblue201]

Russia is fucking invading and IMF wants to cut Ukraine's social programmes? What an insane dedication to a political agenda. Or extremely cynical and opportunist. Fuck them.

This is the description from the IMF's own press release:

“Over the past year, despite the challenging environment, the Ukrainian authorities have clearly shown their commitment to ambitious reform on several key fronts. They have maintained strong fiscal discipline (a 2014 deficit of 4.6 percent of GDP vs. a target of 5.8 percent); they have adopted a flexible exchange rate regime; and they have significantly increased household gas prices to 56 percent of the import price and heating prices to about 40 percent of the import price in 2014. In addition, in the first such move in many years, they have begun to strengthen the country's anti-corruption and anti-money laundering framework.

“The government is committed to front-loaded measures under the new program—including further sizable energy tariff increases; bank restructuring; governance reforms of state-owned enterprises; and legal changes to implement the anti-corruption and judicial reform agenda. This program will require the authorities’ steadfast determination to reform the economy. To help cushion the adjustment, especially for the poorest groups, measures are being taken to strengthen and better target the social safety net.

That's a little vague, but the reference to increasing gas prices probably means a cut in wasteful subsidies, which is always sound policy. And the final sentence should at least assuage concerns that the loan conditions portend massive austerity measures.

 

[Outcome]

The leader of the Ukrainian political party "Right sector" Dmitry Yarosh said on his official facebook page that participating in military operations in the Donbass Right Sector militant wing does not recognize Minsk consensus and reserves the "right to continue active operations according to their own operational plans".

 

[Abinash117]

It looks like after awhile; negations wasn't getting anymore, so they want to look like they did something. Especially, since he EU announced new sanctions I think they know the 'deal' won't hold. I guess the US will be supping Ukraine sometime this month.

 

[Resident_UA]

The leader of the Ukrainian political party "Right sector" Dmitry Yarosh said on his official facebook page that participating in military operations in the Donbass Right Sector militant wing does not recognize Minsk consensus and reserves the "right to continue active operations according to their own operational plans".

Since you just pick things out of huge post that reinforce your propaganda let me help you and summarize what the posts says. I would also like to remind you that he was elected to Ukrainian parliament by Dnipropetrovsk region (Easter Ukraine)

1. Agreements with Russia are impossible because Russia never keeps them
2. President of Ukraine does what he can so we can't say Ukraine is surrendering, but I would use UK and US more since they are more anti Keremlin.
3. The fighting is intensifying so it's impossible to imagine cease fire without defeating the opponent
4. No reason to keep Debaltseve. It's not worth the effort and endangers Ukrainian troops, extends the front line. Should probably push towards Novoazovsk instead (Mariupol defense)
5. Right Sector keeps coordinating with ATO (Ukrainian army)
6. Right Sector doesn't think that agreements with Pro Russian terrorists are judiciary enforceable, so if Ukrainian army pulls back heavy artillery Right sector reserves a right to fight occupants until the Ukrainian lands are free.
7. With respect of legalization of volunteer defense force - it is important the territorial integrity of Ukraine could be defended by every citizen
8. Point 10 of Minsk agreements mentions "break up of illegal battalions" we sincerely hope that this was not targeted at Right Sector since this will destabilize the situation in Ukraine and will help Russian aggressor
9. Right Sector is calling for Ukrainian army, volunteers , and government to unite because that's the only way we can keep our sovereignty

 

[Vizzeh]

Lol... no dude. What the Germans and French are trying to do is the minimal they can so they can stop the sanctions. Appeasing Russia is pretty much the game plan for them at the cost of Ukraine. Sorry, but they get no kudos from me.

It isn't even about Ukraine to EU anymore. I wish U.S would just arm Ukraine anyways.

It looks like after awhile; negations wasn't getting anymore, so they want to look like they did something. Especially, since he EU announced new sanctions I think they know the 'deal' won't hold. I guess the US will be supping Ukraine sometime this month.

Providing both sides keep their part of the deal, I see absolutely no reason why the US should get involved by flicking a match on the situation that is nothing to do with them. Leave this up to Europe to resolve. I'm sure McCain can still appease his political corporate-backers by throwing more weapons into the middle east, leave Ukraine alone for now unless there is actual due-cause to escalate.

We have 2 days of potential fighting and 2 weeks of retreats before we realise it is going to work in the short term, after that, pressure on Russia to remain silent, and bigger pressure on Ukraine to show lawful local elections in the effected area's.

-Ceasefire to begin at 00.00am local time on 15 February
-Heavy weapons withdrawn in a two-week period starting from 17 February
-Amnesty for prisoners involved in fighting
-Withdrawal of all foreign militias from Ukrainian territory and the disarmament of all illegal groups
-Lifting of restrictions in rebel areas of Ukraine
-Decentralisation for rebel regions by the end of 2015
-Ukrainian control of the border with Russia by the end of 2015

 

[Resident_UA]

bigger pressure on Ukraine to show lawful local elections in the effected area's.

Lol. WTF? Ukraine would happily hold lawful elections there. Why would you need to pressure Ukraine to do it?!

 

[Vizzeh]

Lol. WTF? Ukraine would happily hold lawful elections there. Why would you need to pressure Ukraine to do it?!

Lawful elections in the eyes of the world and Russia, East-Ukraine is high on resources, providing they intend to play fair and hold to their side of the agreement. if it happens, everyone is happy. Simple.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Lawful elections in the eyes of the world and Russia, East-Ukraine is high on resources, providing they intend to play fair and hold to their side of the agreement. if it happens, everyone is happy. Simple.

Wait, how can you have elections that are legal in the eyes of the world and Russia? Russia won't recognize any elected officials that aren't pro-Russia.

 

[Vizzeh]

Wait, how can you have elections that are legal in the eyes of the world and Russia? Russia won't recognize any elected officials that aren't pro-Russia.

I'm not too sure about that. I would guess he would be mighty pissed and likely shocked given the east of Ukraines ethnicity + language but if the people on those counties want to remain in Ukraine and be pro-EU, there is nothing he can do about it... It all boils down to the Ukrainian MP's in that area also, providing there is no coup talk, Putin can jog on.

 

[Resident_UA]

Lawful elections in the eyes of the world and Russia, East-Ukraine is high on resources, providing they intend to play fair and hold to their side of the agreement. if it happens, everyone is happy. Simple.

Lawful elections in the eyes of Russia?! What does that mean? Russia hasn't held lawful elections since 1990s.

Do you know what lawful elections are? Means equal access to TV airtime, being a citizen of Ukraine, voting from outside of the region if you used to live there. If these elections happen, even if 99% of current citizens of "DNR" and "LNR" support separatists, pro-Ukraine candidates would win anyway. Why? Because people vote for the most familiar name and none of the separatist leaders are well known. They just being regularly rotated by Russia. And everyone well known from Easter Ukraine is currently in Kiev trying to keep their business in DNR running (which people appreciate since it gives them jobs)

 

[Kabouter]

I'm not too sure about that. I would guess he would be mighty pissed and likely shocked given the east of Ukraines ethnicity + language but if the people on those counties want to remain in Ukraine and be pro-EU, there is nothing he can do about it... It all boils down to the Ukrainian MP's in that area also, providing there is no coup talk, Putin can jog on.

If that were the case, this thread would not exist.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I'm not too sure about that. I would guess he would be mighty pissed and likely shocked given the east of Ukraines ethnicity + language but if the people on those counties want to remain in Ukraine and be pro-EU, there is nothing he can do about it... It all boils down to the Ukrainian MP's in that area also, providing there is no coup talk, Putin can jog on.

Nothing he can do about it... except invade.

Again.

 

[Yamauchi]

I think overall it is a solid peace agreement, and I hope it will stop the fighting. Now whether or not it will be implemented is another question entirely.

 

[Vizzeh]

Lawful elections in the eyes of Russia?! What does that mean? Russia hasn't held lawful elections since 1990s.

Do you know what lawful elections are? Means equal access to TV airtime, being a citizen of Ukraine, voting from outside of the region if you used to live there. If these elections happen, even if 99% of current citizens of "DNR" and "LNR" support separatists, pro-Ukraine candidates would win anyway. Why? Because people vote for the most familiar name and none of the separatist leaders are well known. They just being regularly rotated by Russia. And everyone well known from Easter Ukraine is currently in Kiev trying to keep their business in DNR running (which people appreciate since it gives them jobs)

Voting from outside the region atleast in the UK is against the law, during the Scottish referendum to split from the UK and gain independence, we have a guy in work that no-longer lives in that region, but was born there and lived there until he was 20, his family still lives there and retains his Scotish accent after 10-15 years, yet his current postcode that he resides in gives him voting rights only in his occupying region.

Although not sure if what you said was your opinion on what is fair or if that is objectively what Ukraine will require.

I just hope there isn't too much noise around and every day people can vote without resistance, no extremist Russians or extremist Ukrainians. There were plenty of allegations on both sides during the Kiev elections.

 

[Jackpot]

I think overall it is a solid peace agreement, and I hope it will stop the fighting. Now whether or not it will be implemented is another question entirely.

How come you haven't responded to the post where you claimed the UK was secretly arming the Ukraine or all the other posts asking you to respond to it?

 

[Resident_UA]

I just hope there isn't too much noise around and every day people can vote without resistance, no extremist Russians or extremist Ukrainians. There were plenty of allegations on both sides during the Kiev elections.

What extremist Ukrainians? What "Kiev elections"?

Last few eletions in Ukraine were deemed democratic by EU and Russia.

Voting outside of region is not outside of law in Ukraine and HAS to happen since about half of population was displaced.

 

[Abinash117]

Providing both sides keep their part of the deal, I see absolutely no reason why the US should get involved by flicking a match on the situation that is nothing to do with them. Leave this up to Europe to resolve. I'm sure McCain can still appease his political corporate-backers by throwing more weapons into the middle east, leave Ukraine alone for now unless there is actual due-cause to escalate.

We have 2 days of potential fighting and 2 weeks of retreats before we realise it is going to work in the short term, after that, pressure on Russia to remain silent, and bigger pressure on Ukraine to show lawful local elections in the effected area's.

-Ceasefire to begin at 00.00am local time on 15 February
-Heavy weapons withdrawn in a two-week period starting from 17 February
-Amnesty for prisoners involved in fighting
-Withdrawal of all foreign militias from Ukrainian territory and the disarmament of all illegal groups
-Lifting of restrictions in rebel areas of Ukraine
-Decentralisation for rebel regions by the end of 2015
-Ukrainian control of the border with Russia by the end of 2015

They most likely won't keep a verbal deal; they didn't before and not much reason for some rebels and some Ukraine forces to agree to it. They are still territory that both sides want, what makes you think they will simply stop, deescalate, or comply with that deal nearly the same one they didn't on September? It also does not matter if the conflict should be only between the EU and Russia; the US will get involved like they already had. Lol it doesn't matter what Mccain thinks he isn't commander in chief and Obama doesn't need congress' authority to give weapons, send troops, or just get involved. Obama is already contemplating sending weapons. Most likely a short time after the deal fails.

 

[Yamauchi]

How come you haven't responded to the post where you claimed the UK was secretly arming the Ukraine or all the other posts asking you to respond to it?

Your post here is an excellent example of why I tend not to force myself to go back and wade through the one-sided pile of feces that passes as arguments on this subject. I would invite you to go back and read my post on the subject. I never said that the UK is secretly arming Kiev. This was made public I believe earlier in 2014. Those were Saxon APCs 'sold' to Kiev for $75k a piece, or about 1/3 the price other customers have paid for them.

I am hopeful the new peace agreement will end fighting between Western-armed Kiev and Russian-armed Donbass.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Interesting article from the BBC:

BBC News - The untold story of the Maidan massacre

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-31359021

A day of bloodshed on Kiev's main square, nearly a year ago, marked the end of a winter of protest against the government of president Viktor Yanukovych, who soon afterwards fled the country. More than 50 protesters and three policemen died. But how did the shooting begin? Protest organisers have always denied any involvement - but one man told the BBC a different story.

There also appeared an interesting picture in a German newspaper article today:

http://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2015-02/eu-gipfel-ukraine-griechenland-merkel?mobile=false

It shows several Ukrainian tanks and Ukrainian soldiers near Debalzewe. Which alone isn't that interesting. But several readers of the article noticed that the tank had German license plates of the district Borken, which is kind of weird / funny.

 

[East Lake]

Your post here is an excellent example of why I tend not to force myself to go back and wade through the one-sided pile of feces that passes as arguments on this subject. I would invite you to go back and read my post on the subject. I never said that the UK is secretly arming Kiev. This was made public I believe earlier in 2014. Those were Saxon APCs 'sold' to Kiev for $75k a piece, or about 1/3 the price other customers have paid for them.

You just tried to draw an equivalent between an invasion and a regular military contract. I don't know if calling the thread a one sided pile of feces will help you get out of that, but it was an admirable attempt.

 

[Veritigo_X]

Your post here is an excellent example of why I tend not to force myself to go back and wade through the one-sided pile of feces that passes as arguments on this subject. I would invite you to go back and read my post on the subject. I never said that the UK is secretly arming Kiev. This was made public I believe earlier in 2014. Those were Saxon APCs 'sold' to Kiev for $75k a piece, or about 1/3 the price other customers have paid for them.

I am hopeful the new peace agreement will end fighting between Western-armed Kiev and Russian-armed Donbass.

Why didn't you include any of this info in your original post? Why did you even post it in the first place if the APCs were sold in a very public manner that anyone could look up? I would hardly call that 'news' and at most it's news that's a year old.

 

[Vizzeh]

What extremist Ukrainians? What "Kiev elections"?

Last few eletions in Ukraine were deemed democratic by EU and Russia.

Voting outside of region is not outside of law in Ukraine and HAS to happen since about half of population was displaced.

Sorry I miss spoke, not Elections, Installed Government, I think everyone seen quite a bit of unrest during the implementation of it. Svoboda's ties to extremism up to and during the euromaiden protests etc.

Voting outside of the region sounds extremely dubious from an impartial point of view, sounds like it could potentially open the doors to corruption. Anyone displaced can surely prove residency up to their displacement, if that is the case I see no problem with it, however i'm sure this decision will be agreed upon with due diligence providing the peace lasts, they have until end of 2015 to sort it out anyway.

 

[Kabouter]

Your post here is an excellent example of why I tend not to force myself to go back and wade through the one-sided pile of feces that passes as arguments on this subject. I would invite you to go back and read my post on the subject. I never said that the UK is secretly arming Kiev. This was made public I believe earlier in 2014. Those were Saxon APCs 'sold' to Kiev for $75k a piece, or about 1/3 the price other customers have paid for them.

I am hopeful the new peace agreement will end fighting between Western-armed Kiev and Russian-armed Donbass.

Yes, and by not including this in your original post you were being intentionally misleading. Don't do it again.

 

[Vizzeh]

They most likely won't keep a verbal deal; they didn't before and not much reason for some rebels and some Ukraine forces to agree to it. They are still territory that both sides want, what makes you think they will simply stop, deescalate, or comply with that deal nearly the same one they didn't on September? It also does not matter if the conflict should be only between the EU and Russia; the US will get involved like they already had. Lol it doesn't matter what Mccain thinks he isn't commander in chief and Obama doesn't need congress' authority to give weapons, send troops, or just get involved. Obama is already contemplating sending weapons. Most likely a short time after the deal fails.

I mention McCain because he sure does love a good ole weapons deal lol - I am just an optimist, whilst im hoping they will honour it, im sure a few false-flag explosions will occur and pull the fighting back in.

My opinion is irrelevant on Obama on what he can or can't do, but if he escalates this fragile situation I will loose all respect for him and hope the American people show their discredit to it.

There is one thing financially and militarily backing Ukraine in relative silence, but openly, publicly pumping weapons onto the battle-field forcing an escalation of tit for tat due to a response from Russia openly doing the same in larger numbers resulting in Obama 'crying' for help to NATO due to not being able to arm Ukraine fast enough versus Russia's, likely outcome = a war close to or equating to a world war 3, that he seemingly wants. Which from someone in Europe, is not exactly appetising.

 

[Yamauchi]

Yes, and by not including this in your original post you were being intentionally misleading. Don't do it again.

Incorrect. I wasn't being intentionally misleading. No part of my post ever suggested that the UK was secretly arming Ukraine. Were you the mod, by the way, that banned me for an 'incorrect translation' that turned out to be correct?

You just tried to draw an equivalent between an invasion and a regular military contract. I don't know if calling the thread a one sided pile of feces will help you get out of that, but it was an admirable attempt.

What evidence do you have of an invasion of eastern Ukraine by Russia? I would be happy to examine it thoroughly.

 

[Resident_UA]

Sorry I miss spoke, not Elections, Installed Government, I think everyone seen quite a bit of unrest during the implementation of it. Svoboda's ties to extremism up to and during the euromaiden protests etc.

Voting outside of the region sounds extremely dubious from an impartial point of view, sounds like it could potentially open the doors to corruption. Anyone displaced can surely prove residency up to their displacement, if that is the case I see no problem with it, however i'm sure this decision will be agreed upon with due diligence providing the peace lasts, they have until end of 2015 to sort it out anyway.

Did you misspeak again because current installed government was elected . There were only few months with interm government, but once elections happened pretty much same people stayed in power.

Read more about Svoboda. Just go to Wikipedia. It doesn't have any ties to actual extremism, their leader said few antisemitic things, but really nothing worse than is being said in other European countries. Also they didn't even make it into current parliament, so I don't see how it's relevant...

 

[Kabouter]

Incorrect. I wasn't being intentionally misleading. No part of my post ever suggested that the UK was secretly arming Ukraine. Were you the mod, by the way, that banned me for an 'incorrect translation' that turned out to be correct?

I have never banned you, but that's beside the point. You clearly implied that Britain was arming Ukraine in the same way that Russia was arming rebels with your post, and made no effort to correct that perception when people took it as such. If that was not your intention, then be more accurate in the future with what you want to say.

 

[Yamauchi]

Anyway, I'm having a bad week and I'm probably acting like an idiot. If I get banned, I probably deserve it.

But as far as I know as recently as November the OSCE stated that there is no definitive evidence that the Russian army is in Ukraine, so I'd love to see some evidence that seems to make it obvious to everyone that there has been an invasion. Russian citizens fighting in the Donbass militias, in my opinion, does not make it an invasion.

I have never banned you, but that's beside the point. You clearly implied that Britain was arming Ukraine in the same way that Russia was arming rebels with your post, and made no effort to correct that perception when people took it as such. If that was not your intention, then be more accurate in the future with what you want to say.

Duly noted. I will stay out of this thread.

 

[Resident_UA]

Incorrect. I wasn't being intentionally misleading. No part of my post ever suggested that the UK was secretly arming Ukraine. Were you the mod, by the way, that banned me for an 'incorrect translation' that turned out to be correct?

What evidence do you have of an invasion of eastern Ukraine by Russia? I would be happy to examine it thoroughly.

1. Yes you were INTENTIONALLY misleading. You added a comment UK invaded Ukraine, sure it's sarcastic, BUT misleading.

2. You not going to take any of the evidence at the face value (thousands of pictures of Russian weapons and Army tickets), so lets take a step back. Wasn't Crimea an invasion?!!

 

[Mully]

The amount of misinformation and propaganda in the past few pages makes me wish we created a new, news and analysis thread.

-No state run or state sponsored media.
-No piecemeal stories.
-No Twitter sources unless verified by a trusted source.
-Columns and analysis articles are okay if they're based on credible sources.
-No false equivalency, "they did it too," posts.

A new thread either needs to be created with some form of these rules or there needs to be stricter enforcement of the rules in the OP. It's really getting out of hand.

 

[Vizzeh]

Did you misspeak again because installed government was elected . There were only few months with interm government, but once elections happened pretty much same people stayed in power.

Read more about Svoboda. Just go to Wikipedia. It doesn't have any ties to actual extremism, their leader said few antisemitic things, but really nothing worse than is being said in other European countries. Also they didn't even make it into current parliament, so I don't see how it's relevant...

lol, Riots during interm Goverment, originally wasn't referring to the newly elected.

I have glanced over quite a few articles and videos referring to Svoboda's ties to Neo-Nazism and anti-Semitism and brutal gang-support with their history dating back 10-15years when they wore “wolfsangel” armbands, the same logo used by Hitler’s Waffen SS and numerous neo-nazi factions, while not doing huge research on it albeit plenty to cause concern, I came across many articles specific to Oleh Tyahnybok the parties leader, its not great reading if your expect a clean record.

While I use Wikipedia for general info, I do like to dig around a little, as wiki can be a little 1-sided

 

[Resident_UA]

lol, Riots during interm Goverment, originally wasn't referring to the newly elected.

I have glanced over quite a few articles and videos referring to Svoboda's ties to Neo-Nazism and anti-Semitism and brutal gang-support with their history dating back 10-15years when they wore “wolfsangel” armbands, the same logo used by Hitler’s Waffen SS and numerous neo-nazi factions, while not doing huge research on it albeit plenty to cause concern, I came across many articles specific to Oleh Tyahnybok the parties leader, its not great reading if your expect a clean record.

While I use Wikipedia for general info, I do like to dig around a little, as wiki can be a little 1-sided

Imagine if Russia still could play that intem government not legit card. People who "came to power" as part of this "illegitimate government" weren't really new people. It's still the same shitty corrupt government in Ukraine. Ironically that's what Russia is trying to preserve.

Could you care to share your research? I really do not like Svoboda, but not because of some conspiracy theories, but because everyone in Ukraine pretty much knows that they are financed by criminal bosses. Everything else about Svoboda is pretty much Russian propaganda. Sure, there are some idiots with swastikas who support Svoboda, but the party itself would barely be classified as Right in UK for example.