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Ukrainian Conflict - Donetsk Boogaloo

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K

knitoe

Member
Russia did the same thing in Georgia. Sure other countries bitch, but nothing was done and nothing will be done here either. These foreign USSR countries better get into NATO asap.
 
K

Kabouter

Member
jufonuk said:
No i mean, a NATO state, trying to stop Russia, I think Russia will act strong and not retaliate as long as they are left alone, but as soon as someone steps in, they will kick ass.
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Europe stood by and let a genocide happen in Yugoslavia, even nearer to the major Western powers. If they let that happen, they're going to let Russia do whatever the fuck it wants in Ukraine with no real strong response. Individual states aren't going to do shit either.
 
M

Madness

Member
Andrex said:
It's time for China and the US to come together to put an end to the Russian menace.
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China is a much larger menace, not only because they still occupy Tibet, but because they've now shown their peaceful rise is anything but. Just look at their imposition of the air identification zone, the south China sea issue etc. People really need to get some perspective here on geopolitical affairs.

knitoe said:
Russia did the same thing in Georgia. Sure other countries bitch, but nothing was done and nothing will be done here either. These foreign USSR countries better get into NATO asap.
Click to expand...

Georgia situation was different because Georgia initiated the war, Russia just used it as an opportunity to humiliate them and give autonomy to South Ossetia and Abkhazia. As for former Soviet States entering NATO, that's a big gamble.
 
iJudged

iJudged

Banned
Kabouter said:
Europe stood by and let a genocide happen in Yugoslavia, even nearer to the major Western powers. If they let that happen, they're going to let Russia do whatever the fuck it wants in Ukraine with no real strong response. Individual states aren't going to do shit either.
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So this! I was in Bosnia throughout the whole ordeal, losing a parent and other fam members to the war, and no one did shit, no one is going to do anything. Sad.
 
K

kittenbreath

Member
evil solrac v3.0 said:
if you polled the people in the Crimea region most of them would not even mind Russian intervention.
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And quite a few of the pro-European protestors in western Ukraine wouldn't care to see it go either. The problem though, is that it isn't so straightforward as saying that the eastern provinces support Russia since there are significant minorities that don't. What happens to them in the aftermath of seperation or annexation?
 
M

Madness

Member
Fenderputty said:
This was a real statement by someone. I'm guessing because of snowden's asylum?
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Probably more because he prevented a US-led invasion of bombing of Syria when they tried to use that chemical weapons redline as justification for entry into the conflict.
 
Xyrmellon

Xyrmellon

Member
Tamanon said:
What statement wouldn't look weak in your eyes?
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He warned against the Russians moving in Crimea when everyone all day has said they already have and are annexing bits and pieces of it. Confirm the reports, even share some intelligence. Say the Pentagon is monitoring things very closely and working with NATO. Make it sound like your making military moves. It doesn't have to be true, but bang the drum a little. He did threaten consequences, but everyone knows that means diplomatic if any.
 
I

ICKE

Banned
There's nothing surprising about this action. Russia believes this area belongs to their sphere of influence and the Crimean population seems to be pro-Russian.

There are also no western powers that will counter this action, Obama is weak and Europe doesn't have a defense coalition to speak of. The geopolitical ramifications could be significant however. If anything, this will only galvanize Eastern-European countries such as Poland to be more skeptical towards Russia (if that's even possible at this point).
 
M

Madness

Member
kittenbreath said:
And quite a few of the pro-European protestors in western Ukraine wouldn't care to see it go either. The problem though, is that it isn't so straightforward as saying that the eastern provinces support Russia since there are significant minorities that don't. What happens to them in the aftermath of seperation or annexation?
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Probably the same thing that happened in Yugoslavia and had people moving away to their new respective countries either willingly or by coercion. Reminds me of how the British forcefully partitioned India and Pakistan.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
Xyrmellon said:
He warned against the Russians moving in Crimea when everyone all day has said they already have and are annexing bits and pieces of it. Confirm the reports, even share some intelligence. Say the Pentagon is monitoring things very closely and working with NATO. Make it sound like your making military moves. He did threaten consequences, but everyone knows that means diplomatic if any.
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The problem with confirming the military is in there, you open it up to actual talk of acts of war. Plus nobody believes(rightly) that our military will get involved at all, so it'd be laughed out of the room. "Sounding weak" is a made-up issue in a global world.
 
K

knitoe

Member
Madness said:
Georgia situation was different because Georgia initiated the war, Russia just used it as an opportunity to humiliate them and give autonomy to South Ossetia and Abkhazia. As for former Soviet States entering NATO, that's a big gamble.
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Georgia started the conflict to regain a part of their country under the control of separatist. Which they have every right to do. That's like, New York decided to break away from the US. The US tries to get New York back, but Canada join the war because they want to defend Canadians living in New York. Russia is using pretty much the same excuse "Protecting Russians".
 
Y

yuraya

Member
knitoe said:
Russia did the same thing in Georgia. Sure other countries bitch, but nothing was done and nothing will be done here either. These foreign USSR countries better get into NATO asap.
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The fear of Putin is no joke. That Georgian guy was basically begging the west to help. And they did nothing.

20080818102710.gif


This time around its no different. In fact I would say there is less chance of western intervention.
 
A

Agnostic

but believes in Chael
How big is the Russian naval base in Crimea?

edit: ok, apparently Russia leases space for their fleet in Crimea? Do we know if the Russian troops that are reported to be seizing airports and television stations coming from the naval base or The Motherland?


edit:

NewsBreaker ‏@NewsBreaker 12m
BREAKING UPDATE: AP: 8 Russian transport planes land at Gvardeiskoye air base north of Simferopol via @mpoppel

ok, they are coming from Russia. lol answered my own questions, thanks me.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
Obama won't be taken seriously after his ''red line'' about Syria then doing nothing about Syria. Crimea is going back to the Soviets ahem Russians
 
GTP_Daverytimes

GTP_Daverytimes

Member
knitoe said:
It's good to have shitloads of nukes. People don't dare to mess with you. So, either, get nukes or join defense pack with a country(s) that do.
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You think America is scared to go to war with Russia simply because they got nukes? anyone can have nukes, hell Pakistan got nukes and the U.S still carry out drone strikes there. Russia has a massive conventional force that neither U.S or the E.U or even China wants to fuck with, that's why (like the U.S) they can do whatever the fuck they want and soon China will join the club (they are already showing signs)
 
K

kittenbreath

Member
knitoe said:
Georgia started the conflict to regain a part of their country under the control of separatist. Which they have every right to do. That's like, New York decided to break away from the US. The US tries to get New York back, but Canada join the war because they want to defend Canadians living in New York.
Click to expand...

It isn't as simplistic as that. It's widely acknowledged Georgia initiated the conflict by bombing a civilian center and attacking Russian peacekeepers. Russia responded with disproportionate force and wrongfully invaded Georgia proper, but nobody was going to go to bat for Georgia after that.
 
K

Ken Masters

Banned
GTP_Daverytimes said:
You think America is scared to go to war with Russia simply because they got nukes? anyone can have nukes, hell Pakistan got nukes and the U.S still carry out drone strikes there. Russia has a massive conventional force that neither U.S or the E.U or even China wants to fuck with, that's why (like the U.S) they can do whatever the fuck they want and soon China will join the club (they are already showing signs)
Click to expand...


The reason India hasn't gone to war with Pakistan is because they have nukes. So yes, nukes matter a lot
 
M

Madness

Member
knitoe said:
Georgia started the conflict to regain a part of their country under the control of separatist. Which they have every right to do. That's like, New York decided to break away from the US. The US tries to get New York back, but Canada join the war because they want to defend Canadians living in New York.
Click to expand...

They declared independence back in the early 90's before the complete breakup of the Soviet Union. And Georgia and South Ossetia had a small war then that led to a ceasefire but South Ossetia became an independent republic but still considered Georgia internationally. In 2008, Georgia tried to retake it by force and Russia intervened this time.
 
I

ICKE

Banned
gribbles said:
Woot, the leader of the Russia's far right party LDP, Vladimir Zhirinovsky, has visited Crimea and told to a cheering crowd that Crimea is Russian territory that is “occupied” by Ukraine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0yeS_2VDbds

For all of Russia's talk about respecting Ukraine's territorial integrity, they're certainly doing their darndest to prove the opposite.
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I see he is doing his usual routine, saying that Russia should provide military aid and restore order by force if necessary.

Not advocating the use of nuclear weapons this time (yet).
 
A

antonz

Member
There are reports of Russian envoys distributing Russian passports in the peninsula. Russia's defence laws allow military action overseas to "protect Russian citizens". This has sparked fears of Russia using this as a pretext for invasion.
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I predicted this days ago in the other thread. Russia would use protecting "Russian citizens" bullshit to move in and take the area. They did the same thing in Georgia flooding S. Ossetia with Russian Passports for a pretext to invasion.

Obama is spineless so he would never take a stand so Putin just laughs as he moves in
 
Ovek

Ovek

7Member7
Obama shouldn't even make a public statement on the matter, if he wants to sabre rattle at the Russians he can do it over diplomatic channels. That way when he doesn't back up his statements/promises like last time he won't look like a fool in the eyes of the world.
 
K

knitoe

Member
GTP_Daverytimes said:
You think America is scared to go to war with Russia simply because they got nukes? anyone can have nukes, hell Pakistan got nukes and the U.S still carry out drone strikes there. Russia has a massive conventional force that neither U.S or the E.U or even China wants to fuck with, that's why (like the U.S) they can do whatever the fuck they want and soon China will join the club (they are already showing signs)
Click to expand...

Russia nuke stockpile is way larger and more advance that Pakistan. US vs Pakistan, US might take heavy damage, but Pakistan would be wipe of the earth. US vs Russia, both sides lose and wipe of the earth. In a only conventional war, US and NATO will beat anyone. In a tough head to head war with Russia, not going to happen. Nukes would be in play. Same reason why China is starting to do shit and nothing is done either.
 
E

Enron

Banned
Wow. It would have been better to not even issue a statement. Whoever his foreign policy advisers are, he should fire them.
 
U

Uncledick

Banned
GTP_Daverytimes said:
You think America is scared to go to war with Russia simply because they got nukes? anyone can have nukes, hell Pakistan got nukes and the U.S still carry out drone strikes there. Russia has a massive conventional force that neither U.S or the E.U or even China wants to fuck with, that's why (like the U.S) they can do whatever the fuck they want and soon China will join the club (they are already showing signs)
Click to expand...

This. Welcome to the world of nuclear (long range) powers doing what they want, when they want, against (non-nuclear, non-defense pact) who they want.

Russia and China have called Western bluffs before. They will continue to push and we will continue to fold.
 
K

knitoe

Member
Madness said:
They declared independence back in the early 90's before the complete breakup of the Soviet Union. And Georgia and South Ossetia had a small war then that led to a ceasefire but South Ossetia became an independent republic but still considered Georgia internationally. In 2008, Georgia tried to retake it by force and Russia intervened this time.
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Does matter if a place declared independence if it's not recognize. So, Georgia has every right to reclaim it.
 
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