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[Nivash]

This is a pretty good reddit post attempting to give you a Russian perspective: http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/c...its_armed_forces_on_full_combat_alert/cfs2gz4

Also, why wouldn't they need Sevastopol? It's the primary base for the Black Sea fleet.

They don't need it because they are moving the fleet to Novorossiysk anyway. They decided to place all future units there because they got tired of Ukraine constantly meddling with how they ran Sevastopol. Back when Yanukovich stated that he wouldn't renew the agreement beyond 2017, before he flip-flopped, Russia didn't do a damn thing.

That post is somewhat biased too. Deploying troops to protect the Crimean opposition, really? Kyiv didn't do a damn thing to the Crimean opposition. The post is also either outdated or lying because surrounding Ukrainian military positions in Crimea and basically daring them to do something about it sure as hell wasn't part of any agreement.

 

[Konka]

Do you think russia will do nothing when the US kills hundreds of russian soldiers?
You are in a videogame.

What would Obama do if russia would kill hundreds of US soldiers? He would not say: good job folks, I will do nothing.

WTF are you talking about? You've got yourself convinced based off of fiction that a small regional conflict will turn into nuclear war. No, this is not a video game dude.

 

[zonezeus]

Of course they won't go unassisted. They just need some assurance if everything goes wrong there will be there someone to back them up.

Sadly, with Poland's deep distrust for western promises I highly doubt it would be enough.

 

[Skinpop]

you shall not pass

 

[jufonuk]

so what the thinking behind this?
is Putin saying to Ukraine, you belong to us, you don't go anywhere else (EU/Nato)

and as for protecting it's naval fleet in Crimea, has it gone from that to a show of force,

I hope no one from Ukraine or Russia take the first shots and it all kicks off.
can it just die down?

 

[maquiladora]

John Kerry says Russia could face visa bans, asset freezes, trade and investment penalties over actions in Crimea - @AP

.

 

[Enkidu]

This is a pretty good reddit post attempting to give you a Russian perspective: http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/c...its_armed_forces_on_full_combat_alert/cfs2gz4

Also, why wouldn't they need Sevastopol? It's the primary base for the Black Sea fleet.

That kind of reads like toned down Russian propaganda to me. Why is it a foregone conclusion that the new government would use violence against Crimeans? Nobody aside from Russia seemed to think this was going to happen and it would make very little sense for it to happen either. Considering the restraint the Ukrainian military has shown so far it seems unlikely that the government was going to start beating up Crimean protesters, especially considering the whole reason Yanukovich was thrown out was because he started killing protesters. It also seems to ignore how suspect it is for Russian soldiers not to have country markings on their uniforms and if this was all a peacekeeping operation then why not bring in the UN instead? That would certainly make a whole lot more sense for this type of operation and wouldn't make it look like Russia is trying to annex parts of a sovereign country.

 

[Psychotext]

you shall not pass

That's a stern looking man. Fair play.

 

[| Praxis |]

you shall not pass

Ha!

 

[Osiris]

Hearing murmurs that threats to Russia now include not only boycott of the upcoming G8 summit, but also Russia facing expulsion from the G8 completely.

Fucking hell.

 

[Zeppelin]

They don't need it because they are moving the fleet to Novorossiysk anyway. They decided to place all future units there because they got tired of Ukraine constantly meddling with how they ran Sevastopol. Back when Yanukovich stated that he wouldn't renew the agreement beyond 2017, before he flip-flopped, Russia didn't do a damn thing.

That post is somewhat biased too. Deploying troops to protect the Crimean opposition, really? Kyiv didn't do a damn thing to the Crimean opposition. The post is also either outdated or lying because surrounding Ukrainian military positions in Crimea and basically daring them to do something about it sure as hell wasn't part of any agreement.

They're moving the fleet over time, not immediately.

But yes, that post is biased and it wasn't my intention to make it out to not be so.

 

[maquiladora]

Hearing murmurs that threats to Russia now include not only boycott of the upcoming G8 summit, but also Russia facing expulsion from the G8 completely.

Fucking hell.

Yeah Kerry was interviewed a few mins ago, said Putin "may not even be in the G8" if this continues.

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

Hearing murmurs that threats to Russia now include not only boycott of the upcoming G8 summit, but also Russia facing expulsion from the G8 completely.

Fucking hell.

No way! That could cause some serious problems.

 

[jufonuk]

Yeah Kerry was interviewed a few mins ago, said Putin "may not even be in the G8" if this continues.

would Putin even care?, I bet Russia would be upset

 

[Konka]

No way! That could cause some serious problems.

Dude they're invading Ukraine...

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

Dude they're invading Ukraine...

I know. It can cause more serious problems, that's what I meant.

 

[jakonovski]

Hearing murmurs that threats to Russia now include not only boycott of the upcoming G8 summit, but also Russia facing expulsion from the G8 completely.

Fucking hell.

Might be good. Putin is craving respect from other countries, it's important he doesn't get it unless he acts like a civilized head of state.

 

[Terra]

If they decide to go through with this, Russia might get isolated from the international community. Such things can hurt even big nations.

 

[capslock]

I am normally a fan of Obama's "slow and considered" approach to international crises, but I have to admit that he has created a bit of "wuss" image for himself among the world's strongmen.

 

[Roude Leiw]

I know. It can cause more serious problems, that's what I meant.

yeah better not do anything because it could cause more trouble. i dont know if that is the right approach here. Russia is clearly using the salami tactics.

 

[TacticalFox88]

If they decide to go through with this, Russia might get isolated from the international community. Such things can hurt even big nations.

They're idiots if they think such an action won't backfire immensely.

 

[pulsemyne]

The diplomatic pressure is beginning to increase. Then again it's all just a show to tell people that the EU and the US will not be pushed around either. The russians probably suspected this was going to happen.

 

[jakonovski]

I am normally a fan of Obama's "slow and considered" approach to international crises, but I have to admit that he has created a bit of "wuss" image for himself among the world's strongmen.

In the long run Obama's approach wins, I think. Only to be dashed against the rocks when republicans win presidency next.

 

[Psychotext]

Hearing murmurs that threats to Russia now include not only boycott of the upcoming G8 summit, but also Russia facing expulsion from the G8 completely.

Fucking hell.

Britain is apparently boycotting the G8 too. How exactly would expulsion from the G8 work anyway? Could they vote on it?

 

[Terra]

I am normally a fan of Obama's "slow and considered" approach to international crises, but I have to admit that he has created a bit of "wuss" image for himself among the world's strongmen.

At the same time. It could be very dangerous to jump the gun in a situation like this. Better to solve things at the table and get a general agreement about excluding the bully. I mean...who would stand beside and support Russia about their latest action? Belarus? Iran perhaps? North korea? Not the nicest of friends.

 

[Konka]

I know. It can cause more serious problems, that's what I meant.

Yeah? You can't just crawl into a shell and hide from something like this.

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

yeah better not do anything because it could cause more trouble. i dont know if that is the right approach here. Russia is clearly using the salami tactics.

I'm not saying they shouldn't do something about it. If they do it he might get pissed (he might create a constant tension between Russia and the EU/USA ) but they can't let Putin do whatever he wants.

Yeah? You can't just crawl into a shell and hide from something like this.

Agreed but we don't know how Russia will react to it.

Let's see where this leads.

 

[GCX]

It sure was a good plan to put 50 billion in improving the pr image of Russia via olympics and then invade a country a week after that.

 

[Nivash]

Russia Today has completely moved into the "making shit up" phase of propaganda now: according to them, 675,000 Ukrainians fled Ukraine due to "revolutionary chaos" and most of the Ukrainian forces in Crimea has switched sides according to "sources". It's like Libya all over again.

 

[maquiladora]

In Moscow the pro-war protests are allowed to take over the street, while in another part of the city at the same time the anti-war protesters on the sidewalk get detained by police.

 

[Oersted]

Putin doesn't care so much about the old Isolation-tactics by USA. And if USA intervenes, he has a free pass. Putin will wait.

 

[Skinpop]

Russian motorcycle gang riding into Ukraine.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/10670244/Meet-the-Night-Wolves-Putins-Hells-Angels.html

Fiercely patriotic, they believe that “wherever the Night Wolves are, that should be considered Russia”.

edit:

So it’s odd that Russian President Vladimir Putin has struck up an enduring friendship with the group’s leader, Alexander Zaldostanov, a man nicknamed ‘The Surgeon’

lol

 

[Mondy]

Breaking: UK will not attend preparations for the G8 in Sochi. Basically a boycott without calling it that.

http://edition.cnn.com/

 

[fanboi]

Isolating Russia on the political scene and trying to move away from trading (which we somewhat discussed in this thread, aka move away from dependency from Russia), wouldn't that be a receipt for war? I mean, there would be no other options then to fight your way forward if you where Russia.

 

[Mondy]

Isolating Russia on the politically scene and trying to move away from trading (which we somewhat discussed in this thread, aka move away from dependency from Russia), wouldn't that be a receipt for war? I mean, there would be no other options then to fight your way forward if you where Russia.

Not necessarily, unless the sanctions included materials Russia needed but couldn't produce themselves, ala Oil for Japan in WW2.

 

[Osiris]

Note about the boycott, that in itself is damaging to Russian interests, as the presidency which they hold only lasts a year and the agenda for the meeting itself is set by the host, so whatever agenda Russia/Putin decided on for their presidency is now off the table for the other G8 members.

 

[DrM]

Not necessarily, unless the sanctions included materials Russia needed but couldn't produce themselves, ala Oil for Japan in WW2.

China would be quite happy with that scenario...

 

[Chichikov]

I am normally a fan of Obama's "slow and considered" approach to international crises, but I have to admit that he has created a bit of "wuss" image for himself among the world's strongmen.

This is has nothing to do with Obama's image, Russia knows full well that the west will not go to war over eastern Europe.
This has been the constant truth for every single administration since the cold war, the Russian knows it, they always did.

 

[Plinko]

All of this happens just in time for spring break so gas prices will shoot above $4. Wonderful.

 

[TacticalFox88]

China would be quite happy with that scenario...

It does make you wonder if Chinese leaders are secretly having meetings gauging Western reaction and learning from Putin in order to see their options on retaking the islands they want in the Pacific.

hmmmm

 

[hammster]

All of this happens just in time for spring break so gas prices will shoot above $4. Wonderful.

Perspective

 

[Plinko]

Perspective

That wasn't a flippant comment showing any disrespect for what is happening in Ukraine right now. I realize that what they're going through is far, far worse than something like gas prices rising.

Still, it's going to affect all of us no matter where we are.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

All of this happens just in time for spring break so gas prices will shoot above $4. Wonderful.

Yeah. This stupid conflict is going to make it a little harder to keep my jet ski running.
Damn.

 

[Plinko]

Yeah. This stupid conflict is going to make it a little harder to keep my jet ski running.
Damn.

Was it that hard to read the post directly above yours?

 

[Guileless]

I am normally a fan of Obama's "slow and considered" approach to international crises, but I have to admit that he has created a bit of "wuss" image for himself among the world's strongmen.

The Tea Party has a huge assist. No other post-war president has had to worry about a small group of idiots who will bring the government to a halt. If he did anything without congressional approval, they would try and impeach him. And congress is too dysfunctional to approve anything that would help in a timely fashion (the anti-war Left would complicate things further as with Syria). Putin knows this and can act with impunity.

 

[Topsu]

That wasn't a flippant comment showing any disrespect for what is happening in Ukraine right now. I realize that what they're going through is far, far worse than something like gas prices rising.

Still, it's going to affect all of us no matter where we are.

A Ukrainian taxi driver gets aimed with assault rifles by foreign soldiers on his home soil and is too scared to do his job.

An American taxi driver has to pay a bit more for gas.

Yeah, man, I don't know if the latter has any meaning right now.

 

[schuelma]

The Tea Party has a huge assist. No other post-war president has had to worry about a small group of idiots who will bring the government to a halt. If he did anything without congressional approval, they would try and impeach him. And congress is too dysfunctional to approve anything that would help in a timely fashion (the anti-war Left would complicate things further as with Syria). Putin knows this and can act with impunity.

I'm sorry, I cannot agree with that at all. Obama's foreign policy has been consistent since well before the tea party existed, and by and large I would say the tea party group as a whole is probably more pro-intervention than Obama's allies on the left.

 

[Sqrt_minus_one]

The Tea Party has a huge assist. No other post-war president has had to worry about a small group of idiots who will bring the government to a halt. If he did anything without congressional approval, they would try and impeach him. And congress is too dysfunctional to approve anything that would help in a timely fashion (the anti-war Left would complicate things further as with Syria). Putin knows this and can act with impunity.

I don't understand what people want the United States to do during and after the Cold War both Superpowers had sphere's of influence and the term near abroad had been coined to indicate that. The fact of the matter is Ukraine falls within Russia's sphere of influence besides a strongly worded letter, threat of sanctions and in the extreme deploying troops to protect western Ukraine what do you want Obama to do?

I find it highly unlikely Ukraine will be invaded Putin in many ways has lost the western part of the country if anything his actions at the moment show how desperate he is to hang on to the Crimea and his misplaced nostalgia for the old Soviet Russia IMO. Hell he tried to "bribe" the country by loaning a ton of money and they still kicked the president out to go the EU route.

 

[Oersted]

I don't understand what people want the United States to do during and after the Cold War both Superpowers had sphere's of influence and the term near abroad had been coined to indicate that. The fact of the matter is Ukraine falls within Russia's sphere of influence besides a strongly worded letter, threat of sanctions and in the extreme deploying troops to protect western Ukraine what do you want Obama to do?

I find it highly unlikely Ukraine will be invaded Putin in many ways has lost the western part of the country if anything his actions at the moment show how desperate he is to hang on to the Crimea and his misplaced nostalgia for the old Soviet Russia IMO. Hell he tried to "bribe" the country by loaning a ton of money and they still kicked the president out to go the EU route.

He made an offer, EU made one. But Putin is the bribing one.

 

[Sqrt_minus_one]

He made an offer, EU made one. But Putin is the bribing one.

Hence my inverted commas and it's quite clear the president was under pressure from Moscow or do you think it normal to completely ignore the wishes of your people and risk being ousted???