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[Sqrt_minus_one]

......wow

You should see the one depicting submarines

 

[rokkerkory]

You should see the one depicting submarines

MURICA!!!

let's do one for destroyers too

 

[RedShift]

Is that Aircraft Carrier thing up to date?

I swear in the UK we only have half an Aircraft Carrier now or something. And no planes that can land on it.

 

[mnz]

The US military always seems so insanely huge to me. How can the people responsible for its budgets see a picture like that aircraft carrier one and think "well, a couple more would be good"? Submarines are probably even crazier than that.

On the other hand, a united European military is an interesting idea, it would certainly be extremely powerful and different to what the member countries have now, but since it doesn't exist...who cares?

 

[Harlock]

Lucky for Putin that our president is not a texan anymore.

 

[Konka]

Is that Aircraft Carrier thing up to date?

I swear in the UK we only have half an Aircraft Carrier now or something. And no planes that can land on it.

It's probably not entirely up to date but the point was just the general idea.

 

[jerry1594]

Geopolitics sure have gotten interesting in the last ten years

 

[freshlylickedcat]

Germany's force is, whilst significant, geared up for defence if I recall correctly? A bit like Japans. That said, they have a lot of Eurofighters, so maybe not!

And I suspect you're correct - all three are very technically advanced but just don't have the numbers that Russia's has. We don't have the raw power of Russia (nor the power and incredibly power projection capacity of the US). That said, we wouldn't be invading Russia - I think that our forces combined could do a good job of aiding the Ukrainian military if it came down to it. Someone mentioned earlier in this thread about how Russia's anti-air capacity is very significant and that the US's only jets that could operate near them would be the F22's - I'm not sure how the Eurofighters would fare, but they're of the same generation as the F22s and the UK and Germany actually have the most Eurofighters, so that could be very useful. They're incredibly competent planes, and the UK has a military base in Cyprus that's only 600 miles from Crimea.

I'm just thinking out loud here though, I;m under no illusions that this'd ever happen. I just mean to say that the EU isn't like the African Union or something. It started as, and primarily remains, an economic union. That's why our foreign policy remains within the control of the nation states that make it up.

Yes, I believe you are correct regarding Germany's armed forces.

Russia's armed forces is possibly the 2nd strongest in the world; in certain areas, they are number 1 (as you mentioned in your post). Total strength aside, Russia already has troops on the ground there. They also have a strategic advantage, their entire country is next door. I'm sure they are also well aware that nobody in their right mind will use military force. Any EU military action will probably necessitate the US to tag along, which would lead to an interesting scenario (albeit an unlikely one).

Nobody is going to risk fighting Russia--there's very little/nothing to gain.

 

[Tesseract]

The US military always seems so insanely huge to me. How can the people responsible for its budgets see a picture like that aircraft carrier one and think "well, a couple more would be good"? Submarines are probably even crazier than that.

On the other hand, a united European military is an interesting idea, it would certainly be extremely powerful and different to what the member countries have now, but since it doesn't exist...who cares?

i look at it and think fuck yeah ain't no invasions coming here any time soon. then i slug a beer and motorcycle into the sun.

 

[maquiladora]

Putin laughs at Obama's demand to pull out of Crimea...

Rodrigo ‏@RodrigoEBR

U.S. has tracked "thousands more" Russian troops flowing into Crimea on Sunday to reinforce Russian positions there -WSJ

 

[Sylver]

I hope this doesn't mean no more visas for russian citizens on Europe during this time. I need to hire some of them.

 

[jstripes]

......wow

I assume the reason the US has so many aircraft carriers because it generally has to travel overseas to pick fights.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Lucky for Putin that our president is not a texan anymore.

Bush was still president when the Georgia conflict happened and he didn't do anything.

 

[Konka]

I assume the reason the US has so many aircraft carriers because it generally has to travel overseas to pick fights.

So does the UK? Unless they're planning an attack on Scotland if they vote for independence.

 

[Nikodemos]

I'd have to politely disagree, to quote scholar Stephen Cohen during his interview with DemNow:

And then you have American's movements during the Ukranian revolution and it's not hard to see why Russia feels threatened.

Except he's subtly injecting BS along with his facts. The US didn't "build missile defense installations along Russia’s borders", since Russia's borders don't start East of Poland/Romania (unless he's one of those moronic realists who still use dumb concepts like "spheres of influence" when discussing Belarus/Ukraine). And lol@ "euphemistically called NGOs, but they are political action groups, funded by the West". The GRU/SVR and companies like Gazprom spend billions upon billions of dollars yearly on PR campaigns in the West with little to no alarm from Western intelligentsia.

"It’s reasonable. It’s hard to deny." Yeah, right. As if decent people ought to give a shit about the hurt feelings of a ruthless KGB-bred dictator.

 

[jstripes]

So does the UK? Unless they're planning an attack on Scotland if they vote for independence.

An ocean is a slight bit wider than the channel.

 

[Salvadora]

Can we keep this thread focused on the Ukraine, please?

While it's perfectly relevant to discuss other countries responses to Russia's actions, this thread has been constantly derailed by armchair generals.

 

[freshlylickedcat]

Uh. No.

Anyone who seriously puts the Europeans on the same level as the US military is a fucking ignorant moron, I'm sorry, but I have to keep it real.

These are the same countries who couldn't even do a bombing campaign years ago in their own backyard without help.

I never made that claim; in fact, my post is devoid of the United States all together. I'm guessing you intended to quote someone else.

 

[TacticalFox88]

So, honestly speaking, is the Russian Parliament just a formality?

I mean a UNANIMOUS vote for a fucking military invasion?!

 

[Konka]

An ocean is a slight bit wider than the channel.

Well they're not attacking France either. When it came to Afhganistan and Iraq the British forces hopped a ride along with the American focus for the most part.

 

[Terra]

So, honestly speaking, is the Russian Parliament just a formality?

I mean a UNANIMOUS vote for a fucking military invasion?!

thisisrussia.gif

 

[TCRS]

Germany has a fairly strong military, as well. Having said that, I think any UK-France-Germany military effort would be crushed by Russia.

lol they have new and shiny toys but that's about it. Germany has top notch special services like the KSK but the regular soldiers are glorified scouts at best. Decades of pacifism does that. The German army has almost no real combat experience, except a shooting incident here and there in Afghanistan. The Luftwaffe has a bit of experience because of Kosovo.

I mean yes, if push comes to shove the German army will play a significant role but the main weight will still be carried by UK/France/US. Not that that will ever happen of course.

 

[markot]

So, honestly speaking, is the Russian Parliament just a formality?

I mean a UNANIMOUS vote for a fucking military invasion?!

Put in could put a horse in parliament and they wouldn't object.

 

[SmartBase]

Can we keep this thread focused on Ukraine, please?

While it's perfectly relevant to discuss other countries responses to Russia's actions, this thread has been constantly derailed by armchair generals.

There we go.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Spending more doesn't mean anything when most of your spending is gone to corruption and sci-fi technology that never materialises. The EU has more armed men and women using more or less the same equipment as the US.

This thread just keeps delivering. You can't possibly be serious. The US has dominant naval/air power, which makes it dominant in general.

 

[helloresolven]

So, honestly speaking, is the Russian Parliament just a formality?

I mean a UNANIMOUS vote for a fucking military invasion?!

Didn't the invasion of Iraq get a unanimous vote in the House and only two dissents in the Senate?

 

[CyclopsRock]

Is that Aircraft Carrier thing up to date?

I swear in the UK we only have half an Aircraft Carrier now or something. And no planes that can land on it.

As far as I know, at least some of ours are still operational purely as helicopter launching/landing pads that float. Which is a bit pathetic but they have their uses.

Our others aren't coming til 2020

 

[Resident_UA]

Lucky for Putin that our president is not a texan anymore.

Lucky for everyone I think. I want US to get involved, but Bush could have turned this into WW3 in 5 minutes...

 

[Volimar]

Some surprisingly straight talk.

 

[maquiladora]

So, honestly speaking, is the Russian Parliament just a formality?

I mean a UNANIMOUS vote for a fucking military invasion?!

Members of the Upper House are not elected by public vote. Not the same as the Duma.

Critics to the Federation Council stress that the upper house is an inherently undemocratic body made for regional elites, with little say from the Russian people. Since the reforms advocated and passed by President Putin in 2000, critics have also charged that the Council resembles more of a rubber stamp body for the Kremlin than an independent legislative body.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_Council_(Russia)

 

[Piecake]

Didn't the invasion of Iraq get a unanimous vote in the House and only two dissents in the Senate?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Resolution#Passage

No

You are probably thinking of Afghanistan

 

[DrM]

So, honestly speaking, is the Russian Parliament just a formality?

Looks like it

 

[yuraya]

Lucky for everyone I think. I want US to get involved, but Bush could have turned this into WW3 in 5 minutes...

Putin and Bush were good friends. Bush senior also. They went fishing together xD I doubt there would be issues.

 

[Sendou]

Lucky for everyone I think. I want US to get involved, but Bush could have turned this into WW3 in 5 minutes...

If the US (and its allies I guess) would attack Russia over this then who would back Russia up? Because that would be one short WW3 if it was Russia vs. freedom & democracy.

 

[TacticalFox88]

If the US (and its allies I guess) would attack Russia over this then who would back Russia up? Because that would be one short WW3 if it was Russia vs. freedom & democracy.

Maybe China? I mean since the world economy at that point would be fucked anyhow from such a war (meaning their economy would tank) might as well go for broke and try to get something out of the mess.

 

[freshlylickedcat]

lol they have new and shiny toys but that's about it. Germany has top notch special services like the KSK but the regular soldiers are glorified scouts at best. Decades of pacifism does that. The German army has almost no real combat experience, except a shooting incident here and there in Afghanistan. The Luftwaffe has a bit of experience because of Kosovo.

I mean yes, if push comes to shove the German army will play a significant role but the main weight will still be carried by UK/France/US. Not that that will ever happen of course.

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. In my post, I included Germany as a fairly strong military strength--relative to other EU member states. It's nowhere near as strong when compared to other world powers for the very same reasons you mentioned.

 

[maquiladora]

It's sort of surreal hearing these kind of words coming from the Polish Prime Minister in 2014.

"This conflict [has] all signs of the type of conflict that can escalate into a war…. a war which would effect all countries of the world.”

http://live.faz.net/Event/Krise_in_der_Ukraine/107876267

 

[sunnz]

What scares me is the type of war this would be ( IF it goes that far)

Will it just mainly be long range artillery with a lot of air combat ( to ground and air to air)

I feel more rockets and explosives will be used than actual bullets, which is scary because of there destruction.

 

[Ether_Snake]

I'd have to politely disagree, to quote scholar Stephen Cohen during his interview with DemNow:

And then you have American's movements during the Ukranian revolution and it's not hard to see why Russia feels threatened.

Why is it reasonable? Does Russia really think the US and Europe will invade it or attack it? All of this is done because they know very well what Russia is planning and has been doing. Just look at who is in power.

 

[Nikodemos]

Maybe China? I mean since the world economy at that point would be fucked anyhow from such a war (meaning their economy would tank) might as well go for broke and try to get something out of the mess.

On Russia's side? Lolno, they can barely contain their drooling when looking at the Russian Far East at best of times. A Russia-West conflict would be an all-you-can-grab buffet for China.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Can we keep this thread focused on the Ukraine, please?

While it's perfectly relevant to discuss other countries responses to Russia's actions, this thread has been constantly derailed by armchair generals.

Every foreign policy thread I've seen always does. Its like some people can't contain their joy to explain their vast knowledge of obscure weapon systems.

Anyways I thought this was interesting. Slate dug in and found some of the wikileak cables relevant to this. It seems that though they could possibly stop this but the ground was laid years ago

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_worl...ticipated_the_russian_invasion_of_crimea.html

 

[Joeki11a]

George Soros always beefin

 

[The_Inquisitor]

Lucky for everyone I think. I want US to get involved, but Bush could have turned this into WW3 in 5 minutes...

Yeah going to cal bs on this statement. Put any president in his shoes post 9-11 and we'd be at war.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Funny how the Georgia and Ukraine situations both happened during Olympics.

Every foreign policy thread I've seen always does. Its like some people can't contain their joy to explain their vast knowledge of obscure weapon systems.

Anyways I thought this was interesting. Slate dug in and found some of the wikileak cables relevant to this. It seems that though they could possibly stop this but the ground was laid years ago

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_worl...ticipated_the_russian_invasion_of_crimea.html

Good link.

Discussions with a wide range of contacts in Crimea November 20-22 and officials in Kyiv discounted recent speculation that a return of pro-Russian separatism in Crimea, which posed a real threat to Ukrainian territorial integrity in 1994-95, could be in the cards. However, nearly all contended that pro-Russian forces in Crimea, acting with funding and direction from Moscow, have systematically attempted to increase communal tensions in Crimea in the two years since the Orange Revolution. They have done so by cynically fanning ethnic Russian chauvinism towards Crimean Tatars and ethnic Ukrainians, through manipulation of issues like the status of the Russian language, NATO, and an alleged Tatar threat to "Slavs," in a deliberate effort to destabilize Crimea, weaken Ukraine, and prevent Ukraine's movement west into institutions like NATO and the EU.

Four days later, the embassy in Kiev issued another cable, titled “Ukraine-Russia: Is Military Conflict No Longer Unthinkable?” It discusses the views of defense analysts Volodymyr Horbulin, Ukraine’s former National Security Advisor, who believed that “internal Russian considerations are pushing Russia toward a confrontation with Ukraine prior to the expiration of the Black Sea Fleet basing agreement in 2017.”

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

On one hand....holy shit.

On the other, is this really surprising? I'm pretty sure all of the Ukraine's commanders know fighting is pointless as they know 100% for a fact that they will lose. Might as well be on the winning team.

Being a traitor against your own country is in no way winning. Of course personal interest of this commander trumps his loyalty towards his country.

 

[cebri.one]

Polish military forces moving towards the border with Ukraine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=z4uubVAZXwU

I guess, that, as it has been since 1945 the threat of nuclear war will be enough to prevent a direct confrontation between NATO countries and Russia.

 

[H6rdc0re]

This thread just keeps delivering. You can't possibly be serious. The US has dominant naval/air power, which makes it dominant in general.

No country has more equipment than the US. As matter of the fact the EU has much less than Russia. I was talking active military personnel so available immediatly but sure combining active and reserve units the US has the biggest army.

Back on topic. Why not give all the states or provinces within the Ukraine the right to pick if they want to be Pro-Western or Pro-Russian and devide the country accordingly? Iknow the Crimea gets a referendum but how about the whole country?

 

[Jburton]

About 33% for oil, 40% for gas. Winter is over, so the whole "how will we heat our homes?!" argument is gone. EU will do fine -- it'll hurt, possibly lead to a recession, but it will cripple Russia economically. In the long term it'd be better for the EU anyhow to really start weaning themselves off of Russia's oil and gas.

Ultimately Russia is in a bad spot -- other than their natural resources they haven't had much luck building a robust diversified economy these last 20 years, they have demographics working against them, and neighbors that increasingly don't trust them. This will end as the Cold War did -- with economic reality forcing a change in their behavior or economic hardship leading the people internally to force the leadership to change their behavior.

Frankly starting sanctions against Russia over the Crimea isnt worth it.

 

[Liha]

Steinmeier (Germany) said on german television, Russia must remain a member of the G8

 

[cjp]

Polish military forces moving towards the border with Ukraine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=z4uubVAZXwU

I guess, that, as it has been since 1945 the threat of nuclear war will be enough to prevent a direct confrontation between NATO countries and Russia.

Supposed footage here too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSUrTUHP9zo