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Ukrainian Conflict - Donetsk Boogaloo
- Thread starter Salvadora
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It's pretty foolish to think Hitler wasn't going to invade France wether they had an alliance with Poland or not.
cyberheater
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I'm looking forward to Spain annexing Miami.
Russia also doesn't have that much T-90s but rather outdated T-72s. I don't think there's much difference between most current MBTs.
Kadayi
Banned
Exactly. There's a lot of sabre rattling going on but nothing substantive is going to come from it. I thought Stephen Cohen's interview to the nation some time back was a pretty good assessment of the whole affair and how badly mismanaged it been and how in large part it's because of a failure to engage meaningfully with Russia Versus continuing this demonisation and vilification of them that's frankly a hangover from years past.
http://www.thenation.com/blog/17851...sness-could-spark-new-cold-war-divide-ukraine
How so? There's a referendum taking place in September this year in Scotland over independence from the UK. If the vast majority of eastern Ukraine want to be either part of Russia or an independent state in their own right, why not give them the option to self determination? Given there are distinct lines of cultural division in the country in terms of ethnicity and language and in large party geography it's not a bad idea in truth.
Are you talking about the posted videos? If so, the police car in the first one went in to production in 2004 and digital cameras were surelly not widespread in the nineties (second video).
I am not saying the footages cannot be related to some other event, but that they surelly are not from the 90'. So I would question the source.
cebri.one
Member
Even so, the Russian would not have much trouble in reaching Paris within a matter of weeks. However this is when the russian start to have the same problems that both Hitler and Napoleon had, supply lines. Given NATO air superiority they would become a major weakness and eventually Russian advance would stop and then they just would not be able to mantain the military effort over a long period of time.
Hitler thought that France and England wouldn't dare to act, in the short term they didn't want to face France, in the long term yes...
You should play less COD, in raw numbers the combined force of the european nations is far superior to Russia, in tech too as for experience...
I've created a thread for all you budding arm chair generals!
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=778001
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=778001
Not every state in every country should be given the right to self-determinate. Each circumstance is different. Scotland's is different from ukraining states. It's like if texas was allowed to self-determinate. The US wouldn't even allow that as an option nor should it. You are basically arguing over what the civil war in the United States was fought for.
About pics of military lorries and APCs on trains that some lunatics posted on Twitter. aka that Russia is moving their forces to Poland-Russia border. Russia wouldn't mobilize their forces to the border with Poland, there is no need for that (for all that missed the point - there is no Poland-Russia border anymore)
And that speech from Polish PM doesn't surprise me at all.
Regardless, my overreaching point is that Poland has been assured protection from the west several times in the past and each time it has failed to actually protect Poland form being occupied so I fail to find fault with them taking their border security in their own hands this time. Fool me once shame on you...
Especially at the possibly prospect of Ukrainian refugees coming across their border.
It never occurred to me that the invading troops weren't wearing any identifying marks that would label them as Russian. Like it was ever even a genuine question.
The insane amount of U.S. aircraft carriers are widely used now to cull favors. We patrol shipping lanes, always have ships nearby to deliver disaster relief, or serve as a counterweight in territorial disputes. When the Philippines was hit by that typhoon last year and we had ships readily nearby to deliver needed supplies and China barely helped at all, they remember (or should), when Malaysia is having territorial disputes with China over islands in the South China Sea and we declare our support for Malaysia's territorial integrity, they hopefully remember. And then when it comes to decide favorable trade deals the idea is it pays off. Maybe it's still not worth it to dump so much money into such a large fleet, but that's the rationale and in effect, modern purpose of the U.S. Navy.
You act as if leading nations don't have a discussion with russia right now. What would russia being at the g8 accomplish that it can't do right now? You already have many nations already willing to protest this G8 summit so they won't even be there to have a discussion.
Ether_Snake
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You didn't need to type more than this, you just had to read it.
Russian tanks reaching Paris? lol
They declared war and sat there for 7 months until they got attacked. Not much of a response
I believe that by not wearing markings those soldiers are not protected under the Geneva convention, but any action taken against them would be used as proof by Russia of crimes against the "native" Russian population.
cebri.one
Member
I haven't looked the data in a while, but their land forces were quite superior if i recall correctly. The T90s are at least as good as the latest Leopard, and cost half the price. But again, i was very interested in military history and equipment some years ago but not anymore, so i could be wrong. And i don't play COD.
They have invaded the sovereign territory of another nation. Crimea is 100% a part of Ukraine.
Ether_Snake
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"East Ukraine" is what Putin said, not just Crimea.
Narpas Sword0
Member
maquiladora
Member
More from Poland. Of course it could still be movements unrelated to whats happening in Ukraine.
Oh I'm sure it's related to what's happening in Ukraine, it's just that we can't be sure what their intent with these forces is. They probably just want to make sure their borders are secure. Can't fault them for that given recent events.
Unknown Soldier
Member
They will move some troops to Poland-Ukraine border, which is normal move in situation like this. Romania and Belarus probably also moved some of their machinery to border area.
More from Poland. Of course it could still be movements unrelated to whats happening in Ukraine.
I think these are the pictures DrM is saying have been proven to be from the '90.
Darkangel
Member
Out of the big countries (according to Global Firepower):
- Germany: 408
- Poland: 1063
- Italy: 600
- United Kingdom: 407
- France: 423
- Romania: 1100
Hispanics are the majority race in California, no? (Source). It's a province that was formerly owned by Mexico (Source). So, by your logic, a Mexican invasion of California would just be them protecting their interests, unless they start sending soldiers to the rest of the US?
(Yes, this is exaggeration but I still think it shows how stupid your point is. All countries have mixed demographics, and you can't just invade another country because there are people of the same ethnicity living there. If Crimea wanted to secede to Russia, there are more peaceful ways of going about it.)
Yeah but this time there is really conditions to move quickly troops to Poland, they are overreacting and could do more harm than good.
Well armies then doesn't had the mobility they now have, also the french did colossal judgment errors in those 7 months.
I haven't looked the data in a while, but their land forces were quite superior if i recall correctly. The T90s are at least as good as the latest Leopard, and cost half the price. But again, i was very interested in military history and equipment some years ago but not anymore, so i could be wrong. And i don't play COD.
you're wrong is the other way around, europe has more troops and reserves. Also the T90 has no chance against a Leopard thank, in range alone the leopard gun can shoot a russian tank far sooner.
Kadayi
Banned
How exactly is it different? You're not demonstrating an argument. You're simply saying it's unacceptable. How so? Why are the rights of ethnic Russians in Ukraine any less important than those of Scots living in the UK?
You realize we had carries, planes, trains, cars, tanks, helicopters in WWII right? What is this new technology we have to move people faster now?
They were pretty mobile in WWII, we're not talking Naploeonic Wars here.
TacticalFox88
Banned
On a completely unrelated note, I always keep pronouncing Belarus as "Be-LAR-US" instead of BelaRUSE
Ugh. Slavic languages.
Nope, those are not pictures that i saw. I am going through my Twitter feed but looks like that tweets with pics were recently deleted - they had Russian tanks on the trains (T-80s), together with APCs. Fake stuff with -F grade in geography for Twitter lunatics.
Because this secession is being pushed from the outside under threat of military actions, it's not an internal matter only as in the case of Scotland.
cebri.one
Member
Yeah, that was an stupid statement. I don't know why i was thinking in the NATO-Warsaw Pact scenario. NATO though that in case of a Soviet Invasion the first defend line would be at the wesser river, the second at the rhine river, but the next line of defense wasn't in france but Spain (at Pyrenees mountains), so yeah, back at that time they coudl have reached paris in a short period of time.
Apparently it took more than 7 months for the French and British to cross the Maginot Line
At least the first picture can't be that old. Those are modern Polish-Finnish Rosomak APCs.
maquiladora
Member
The Polish military have confirmed there are movements, but they are saying just regular movements due to training and not related to Ukraine.
http://natemat.pl/93745,polska-armi...wojska-maja-miejsce-ale-to-rutynowe-cwiczenia
Pretty much, thanks for saving me the time to type.
Kadayi
Banned
TBH I think it was kind of going down those lines regardless. There's clearly issues in the country due to the mix of cultures and it was inevitable that things were going to come to a head eventually. It's worth listening to that Stephen Cohen interview and how he pretty much predicts the invasion of the Crimea because of Russian military interests in the region.
I talked about the idea of giving the people the right to self determination. And basically said that they're not entitled to it. You still haven't adequately explained why a referendum would be ridiculous. What's more democratic than a vote? For get real world events for the moment. I'm just curious as to why some people are allowed a vote and some people aren't in your view?
Sqrt_minus_one
Member
Amazing link, very enlightening.
"We're coming Poland, we'll be there...sometime."
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