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Ukrainian Conflict - Donetsk Boogaloo
- Thread starter Salvadora
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He went to the Ahmadinejad school of public relations it seems.
Succinct Verbosity
Member
The fact that he's lying about something we all know to be true should show that he's worrying about the global reaction, if anything.
maquiladora
Member
U wot mate. These are just local people protecting their homes from the neo-nazis coming from Kiev! They bought these uniforms and weapons and military transport in the supermarket....
Dinosaur Tamer
Member
It's hard to believe he actually thinks people are buying this shit in 2014. Unless Merkel was right and he went insane.
I don't know what to make of this post
fits his username like a glove
U wot mate. These are just local people protecting their homes from the neo-nazis coming from Kiev! They bought these uniforms and weapons and military transport in the supermarket....
Russia is in violation of the Geneva Convention by having their forces unflagged. Geneva Convention requires Military Uniforms to have the flag of the nation they belong too though Russia would likely argue they aren't at war so they don't need to comply with the GC
Someone said it's offensive stereotyping to think a massive remilitarized Germany would be aggressive to its neighbors or that the world shouldn't be uneasy.
I don't know what to make of this post. Selective quoting seems to have missed where I wrote let's not derail the thread.
You don't cross him. Don't like it, he will take your money, business and send you to prison or worse. They are criminal friends at best.
I guess this is what merkel meant when she said putin has gone insane.
you wouldn't, I can read russian, and I went to pravda site and read some articles and comments yesterday. I'm in horror now, for eternity (><)
Share the horror with the rest of us.
Putin seems like he didn't think this through and doesn't know what to do now. If he annexes Crimea, the rest of Ukraine will run to the west and the U.S. might push to have them join NATO. If he withdraws he looks weak since he'll have abandon the Russians he claims are in such trouble.
I'm way too lazy to translate, but in general we are all horrible (the West, mostly US though) and need to be put to the place. I leave to your imagination what that place is.
And one Ukrainian trying to reason with them was ignored or booed away. It was by far most mellow comment (coming from ukrainian!), it's scary out there.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
'If you don't do what we want, we'll shut off the gas. This isn't a threat, we'd never do nasty things like that!'
Or, like Georgia, have them hold a referendum for independence from Ukraine and have it be a separate territory like Abkhazia and South Ossetia and administer it from behind the scenes, while guaranteeing the base stays open in perpetuity. Crimea isn't going back to Ukraine. That's pretty much a given now.
Sounds similar to here though, the majority of the posts in this thread are very biased.
fizzelopeguss
Banned
lol, he really doesn't like that red head.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
That would be hilarious and scary at the same time.
I get that but Ukraine is much more important than Georgia. If he does that then Ukraine will take every opportunity to fuck Russia over. Any influence they hope to have in that country will be lost forever and the exact thing that Putin didn't want to happen will become reality.
Except we don't know the end game here. There are still millions of pro-Russian, ethnic Russian and even Russian citizens in Ukraine. Yes he'll have lost the West to the EU, but he already did when Yanukovych was forced to flee. And so now he's playing his hand. He's taken back something the Russians have wanted for a while. Crimea for Russia is very much like a Hawaii is to the US. Though it's even closer. We don't know what will happen to the Ukraine. Will they be unified West to East, will the government provide certain guarantees.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
If you say something patently stupid, of course it will derail the thread.
maquiladora
Member
I don't think it's a case of him not thinking this through. I think it's more a case of us not knowing exactly what his plan is. The way the Crimea operartion was carried out so swiftly, I'd be amazed if it wasn't something which has been trained and planned for some time. Putin talked about annexing parts of Ukraine in the event of Ukraine moving towards NATO as far back as 2008. So the fall of the government in Kiev was likely the perfect time to carry it out, and not a kneejerk reaction. That means that there has to be a planned endgame too, and it can't be the Ukrainian mainland ends up closer to NATO than before.
That's probably why they gave him an out with the OSCE inspectors.
Looking at it positively, he just wants to act tough a last time so he can retreat with head held high.
The alternative explanation.. oh boy.
Is there a reason you replied to me when my post was to someone else? The only thing "patently" stupid is to suggest it's offensive stereotyping to think of Germany as possibly an aggressive military power, especially given its past. Don't make me laugh. And enough, that's three times I've now said let's not derail the thread.
Yes but I still think he could have used his relationship with the U.S. and The EU to keep them away from any major military alliance. That is now out the window. He is not going to invade the rest of Ukraine. Hence why he didn't think this through. While they may have been lost to the EU anyway, that didn't mean any significant strategic alliance would have formed because of it. He still could have used leverage to prevent what is probably going to happen now.
Kadayi
Banned
Yeah he's pretty much on point in terms of looking at things from a more sober analytical perspective. Unfortunately despite his qualifications there's already people in the press like this piece aggressively rubbishing him as an apologist for Putin: -
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/03/the-realists-misjudged-ukraine.html
simply because Cohen isn't condemning him, without necessarily understanding (or more likely being prepared to understand) that the role of an analyst is to perceive the motivators/mindset and likely behaviour of a foreign entity based on their understanding of them not beat the drum about how 'terrible' they are, just because that's what people want to hear. It's a clear case of shoot the messenger, which is frankly asinine in this case.
In this particular situation Russia do hold all the cards. US sanctions against Russia mean pretty much nothing because trade between both is negligible, and despite all the sabre rattling most of Europe isn't likely to go along with them either because most if not all are still in or recovering from recession and Russia even temporarily turning off the oil or gas to drive prices through the roof would have a devastating impact on growth and recovery.
Ukraine under Yanukovych was a mess for sure, but wantonly throwing support behind a coup whose membership is highly questionable in terms of political beliefs in such a small amount of time was a huge mistake.
I fixed it.
Terms changed to 6 years i believe. So putin served 2 of the 6 years in his current term. Than serve 6 more years. So Putin will be Russian president until 2024 at least. Than medvdev will probably taker over again for 6. And Putin will return in 2030? Serve probably until 2042 lol. I wouldn't be surprised because he is kind of young.
I think the problem was that we knew exactly what is plan was. He just wanted to pull a second Georgia, but now the rest came prepared.
Ukraine acting out violently was what Putin was counting on. It is why even now he claims Crimea is under attack with police afraid to leave their houses etc.
He needs Ukraine to act out so his plan can work. The entire thing is a bust if Ukraine continues the unarmed resistance approach we see at Bibek Airbase etc
He needs Ukraine to act out so his plan can work. The entire thing is a bust if Ukraine continues the unarmed resistance approach we see at Bibek Airbase etc
BrokenEchelon
Banned
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