CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
This unironically.
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Ukrainian Conflict - Donetsk Boogaloo
- Thread starter Salvadora
- Start date
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This unironically.
How was it misleading? Are they mobilizing or not? I will answer it for you yes they are. Of course it will be defensive, not like Poland can do much against Russia.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
This is very similar to the Georgian crisis.
Georgian separatists wanted to join Russia, Georgia threatened military intervention, Russia sent in troops/sent in more troops than nominally stationed there on the excuse of protecting ethnic Russians.
Democratic - Do what the USA and UK tell you to do.
Lagspike_exe
Member
You do know that by far the most vetoes were used by the US, right? And that eliminating veto right would simply cause the most powerful countries to withdraw from UN, rendering it useless. League of Nations suffered a similar destiny.
I'm sure they're taking notes of how Russia handles the situation and how the world reacts to it.
They have a lot of territorial disputes of their own. If they object strongly now, then they kind of undermine their future "efforts".
It's not. Russia were also 'mobilizing on the border' before deciding to go on in. Not saying Poland will get involved, but this is something that can go regional very fast. Ukraine has declared it a declaration of war and are asking for help. Now Russia is issuing a surrender ultimatum at the threat of an assault? Yeah, not good.
There are more members on the security council then just U.S and U.K. Australia is there, for one.
If they want to withdraw then let them. The Vetoes practically make the UN useless anyway. What is the point of having an organization of every nation collectively getting together for the sake of diplomacy if one nation can just choose to have their own way, regardless of the consequences. It is farcical.
Don't see how that's going to happen.
Why not just make it that a country that is directly involved in the situation can't veto?
There, I just fixed the UN and saved the world
Nikodemos
Member
Not to mention that using vetoes has actually decreased the likelihood of widespread warfare, since if vetoes were impossible, a large, powerful country could simply choose to oppose said prescribed action militarily.
Well if you look at the history of Poland... they've been the doormat for Germany, Ottoman empire.. Russia. So it makes sense to mobilize.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
Everyone is involved in international politics.
Actual Russians means Russian citizens and it seems there weren't enough of those to defend because when the Russian forces rolled in they were giving out Russian documents to anyone who wanted to accept one.
It's over-reaching. They are not justified in doing this.
I did not say they would. I'm just saying this is something that can go regional without too much sparking it. It's volatile as hell.
Partial Gamification
Banned
On Saturday, the Ukrainian delegation requested that the Security Council send international monitors to observe the unfolding crisis. I'm not sure about formal (public) requests for military assistance.
CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
There's always "Uniting for Peace" I guess.
I guess you could say "Involved militarily"
The probleem with the UN is that there are more corrupt or dictator countries than 'civilized' ones.
enanogrande
Member
It's not, but since the news you posted has been discussed multiple times in the thread, you posting "Polish troops are moving" without any clarification made everyone assume this was further movement. Just some miscommunication.
Unlikely, just a strong diplomatic rebuke.
CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
Ukraine isn't in NATO so no.
No.
Ukraine is a NATO partner, not a member. Military action is highly unlikely. But economic sanctions would be very probable. It could also fast track Georgia's inclusion into NATO.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
No, the ruble isn't on a gold standard. It's a fiat currency.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Is this ultimatum legit? Guardian and Times say no
Georgia? Do they even want it still?
PJV3
Member
Russia denies it according to the BBC.
Much more Georgia. Nobody is going to go to war over Ukraine. All that is going to happen is, possibly, some sanctions...maybe. That's about it. The odd visa restricted here and there.
Besides if the ukrainian army fights back then it could end up a rather bloody situation for Russia.
The media is doing a lot to hype this up as well largely due to the fact that it gets clicks and ratings. Far worse things happened during the cold war with proxy wars all over the world and talking endless smack about each other.
Western diplomats also know one thing for certain and that is the crimean people welcome the russians. They are not seen there as an invading force of evil. Both sides know that in the big picture the crimea doesn't mean that much, but it is a very good political tool to smack each other with. Russia has banged its drum for a long time about americas invasion of Iraq and NATO's activities in Libya (which pissed it off a lot by the way), and kosovo/yugoslavia. In many ways they were right about the dodgy legitimacy over what was done. However, now the EU and the US get to turn the tables and, even better for them, the russians never even bothered with the UN or international law. Russias credibility has disappeared and their leadership has been shown to be untrustworthy. This will make businesses very unlikely to invest in Russia. It will do huge harm.
For the west of course that is another big bonus. Now they can start fraking like mad for gas and avoiding dealing with russia altogether. This allows them to strengthen their economic position against russia.
It will also lead to an increase in defense spending as nations will want to strengthen themselves against an aggressive russian bear. One thing is for certain, they won't be buying things from russia anymore.
In a years time relations with Russia will begin to stabalise and the invasion of the crimea will be a sore point between them and the west but so was georgia and that was forgotten about.
SymbiantXenos
Member
Russia denying ultimatum.....
Psychotext
Member
Confusion helps them here. If soldiers believe it to be true then they're much more likely to surrender just in case.
SymbiantXenos
Member
The only way this can be resolved is through peaceful dialog.
Indeed. I hope it is bogus, though. The last thing we need is that kind of escalation.
Good post.
I also wonder whether the Crimean Tartars are going to remain quiet once Crimea joins Russia in five years time.
why would the Ukrainian soldiers surrender? Is that what you would expect of your army?
ambientmystic
Member
It's rather easy to want to watch the fireworks when you're typing your posts thousands of kilometers/miles away from the conflict zone in the safety of your homes in Western Europe/United States.
The reality for those living in the affected regions is rather dire.
OK. I think it's certainly possible that Ukraine doesn't want to escalate the situation, and hasn't called in their allies. In which case blaming them for not assisting would be premature.
Also possible that they have been asked and refused, but the situation seems complicated enough to where this isn't a sure thing.
SymbiantXenos
Member
Possible sanction from the EU is to push for Russias expulsion from summers world cup.
Here's what likely happened. Some commander on the ground gives the ultimatum to the Ukrainian bases. They tell headquarters who tell the press. Russian high command has no idea about all this and immediately get on the blower to the commander and impolitely tells him to "shut his mouth you are making us look bad". Then high command gets on the blower to the press and tells them it was "A complete lie" etc.
The russians are desperate not to look like the bad guys in all of this and that ultimatum made them look very, very bad.
Of course if something does happen then Russia looks even worse again. The political spin doctors in the Kremlin must have shit their pants when that ultimatum was announced.
Reports told that a whole military base equipped with MIGs switched sides + thousands of soldiers.
LOL that would hurt them so much! Not like russia could win it anyway.
Kaisersalsek
Member
I really don't want Ukraine to back down to Russia. Please don't let Russia just invade and take over a country. Hoping there's minimal violence...
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
Russia and the NATO countries bump heads over the Ukraine. Vote comes up for the NATO countries to get militarily involved and Russia's vote is null because they already are militarily involved.
So how does this resolve the situation?
If the Nato countries would really want to get involved they could go in, UN vote or not.
No, what I'd want is a vote for sending in the blue helmets which right now can easily be blocked by russia.
Well, that's just it. Russia would steamroll them if it went hot. They know this, so just going in to try and repel them is not really an option.
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