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[Deleted member 231381]

sigh...

That is not true. It was not just "Rich Jews" that could afford to go to Israel and fled Europe. Heck look at the demographics, over 1 million of the Jews in Israel came from the former USSR. I guess they must be those 1 million "Rich Jews" that managed to amass a massive amount of wealth while living in a country that oppressed them and had quotas as to how many Jews they would allow to work or get an education. I know what Russian Jews went through and they didn't come out rich. They sold everything they owned, were only allowed to take a bag or two of their stuff and fled to Israel (because it was easier to get in then America). Then of course just like every other immagrant, they build a life their and send for their family and friends to come and the next batch of immigrants doesn't have to have much to start with because they have support already established in Israel.

That's the story of how European Jews fled to Israel. A typical story of immagration where many poor people who lost most of what they had after WWII decided to start over in a new place. Not a story of millions of wealthy people leaving the countries they amassed their wealth from.

Reread what I said very carefully and think about why your response isn't valid. If you can't spot it, I'll give you a clue.

Spoiler

I'm talking about the exodus to America and the formation of AIPAC, not the exodus to Israel.

 

[BajiBoxer]

For donors of AIPAC?

Rich people of the jewish faith are most likely the main dinors for a lobby group aimed at promoting zionism around the world.

Wealthy Christians, particularly evangelicals, would be a major monetary factor. Zionism has been a major movement in the U.S. going back to the early days of our Republic. Powerful American Christians have been fighting for Jewish return to Palestine since the 1800's. It's viewed as fulfillment of an important prophesy. Growing up, a lot of us were taught that the Jews are God's chosen people, the return of the Jewish homeland to Jewish control was prophesied, and the next major event would be a 7 year peace deal between Israel and their enemies pushing in the anti-Christ's return to power. Or some variation of that. These people have a LOT of money and donate quite a bit to various efforts for Israel and view any attempt at peace as quite literally helping Satan.

When you combine this with the numerous more mundane monetary and political factors, Israel's conservative lobby becomes crazy powerful in the U.S.

 

[Partial Gamification]

Defense industry isnt responsible for policy. Defense spending is just pork. AIPAC lobbying is directly responsible for so much strife in the middle east. AIPAC is super powerful.

They prop-up their policy positions with the notion there will be money invested in representatives' districts: money invested in the arms industry (and other goods and servicces). NDIA doesn't have to spend so much when someone else is doing a fraction of the lion's share of the leg-work for them.

 

[SymbiantXenos]

This ridiculous conflict needs to stop yesterday

 

[Sapphire Dreams]

This ridiculous conflict needs to stop yesterday

It will not stop until either side try to give up what they want and neither side wants to stand down.

 

[FelixOrion]

Why is this the case? Why is the US so blindly in favor of Israel? Are we getting free oil from Israel? Biased trade agreements? Straight cash hand over fist?

I think former US senator James Abourezk of South Dakota, the first Arab-American to serve in the US senate, said it best in a 2006 letter to activist Jeff Blankfort:

I can tell you from personal experience that, at least in the Congress, the support Israel has in that body is based completely on political fear--fear of defeat by anyone who does not do what Israel wants done. I can also tell you that very few members of Congress--at least when I served there--have any affection for Israel or for its Lobby. What they have is contempt, but it is silenced by fear of being found out exactly how they feel. I've heard too many cloakroom conversations in which members of the Senate will voice their bitter feelings about how they're pushed around by the Lobby to think otherwise. In private one hears the dislike of Israel and the tactics of the Lobby, but not one of them is willing to risk the Lobby's animosity by making their feelings public.

 

[SymbiantXenos]

It will not stop until either side try to give up what they want and neither side wants to stand down.

That's the sad truth of the matter.

 

[Whitechocolatekrispies]

So does anyone have any proof the IDF hit this building? Or are we just assuming the only possible explosion could come from the IDF ... not the thousands of rockets Hamas fires ...

 

[Goliath]

Reread what I said very carefully and think about why your response isn't valid. If you can't spot it, I'll give you a clue.

Spoiler

I'm talking about the exodus to America and the formation of AIPAC, not the exodus to Israel.

Actually the response remains the same. Post WWII many Jews fled to Australia, America and Israel just to name a few. The ones that came here were not different then the ones that fled to Israel. They fled from poor circumstances to come to the U.S. They didn't all come here rich, however we did pick and choose some with great education and the rest came as normal.

 

[Mr.Sumal]

So does anyone have any proof the IDF hit this building? Or are we just assuming the only possible explosion could come from the IDF ... not the thousands of rockets Hamas fires ...

Israel's been hitting UNRWA schools for days, but now that there are mass casualties... lets not jump to conclusions!

here's your answer

 

[Damaniel]

This ridiculous conflict needs to stop yesterday

Both sides are run by their conservative, right wing parties. Right wingers abhor the ideas of surrender, appeasement and negotiation. As such, until both sides elect more centrist governments, then this conflict will go on forever.

Also, that shelter attack was retaliation by Israel for the UN daring to mention Israel's potential war crimes, plain and simple. I'd like to see some actual proof that a UN building was harboring anything Hamas related, but I'm pretty sure such proof doesn't exist.

 

[Whitechocolatekrispies]

here's your answer

Hmmm he also claims

Also being reported there were Hamas rockets falling in Beit Hanoun today RT

So ... both are possible.

 

[Goliath]

I think former US senator James Abourezk of South Dakota, the first Arab-American to serve in the US senate, said it best in a 2006 letter to activist Jeff Blankfort:

You mean politicians say whatever they can to keep their job and satisfy their constituents. Not a big surprise there. I am sure many Republicans now are catering to a rabid Tea Party base they have no love for but have to satisfy because they care more about re-election then doing what's best for the Country.

 

[TheContact]

Let me guess Israel, was Hamas shooting out of this building too?


Though the title is misleading. The article says it's unsure who did it but OP claims to know it's Israel how? I'm not doubting it just curious where the information came from because cnn link doesn't say who

 

[Aaron]

So does anyone have any proof the IDF hit this building? Or are we just assuming the only possible explosion could come from the IDF ... not the thousands of rockets Hamas fires ...

The IDF have a history of bombing UN observers. They don't give a shit.

 

[Linkhero1]

Hmmm he also claims

So ... both are possible.

Keep in mind that that report was from IDF. I doubt it's true but it will be clear soon enough who is at fault.

 

[Mr.Sumal]

Hmmm he also claims



So ... both are possible.

Where did Chris Gunness get that report? from the IDF?

 

[Kinyou]

Theyre blaming Hamas for this smh

Do the Hamas rockets even have enough explosive power to do that?

 

[BajiBoxer]

You mean politicians say whatever they can to keep their job and satisfy their constituents. Not a big surprise there. I am sure many Republicans now are catering to a rabid Tea Party base they have no love for but have to satisfy because they care more about re-election then doing what's best for the Country.

True, in the redistricting process to keep republican seats safe, a lot of ordinary pandering moderates got stuck with districts full of lunatics.

 

[werks]

Maybe it was ET that bombed the UN shelter. I mean anything is possible.

 

[enewtabie]

Do the Hamas rockets even have enough explosive power to do that?

oh yes. Doesn't take much to take out a building.

 

[Whitechocolatekrispies]

Do the Hamas rockets even have enough explosive power to do that?

A stockpile of rockets, which typically get stored in civilian heavy areas, would easily do that.

Sure this could of likely been an accidental Israeli strike. However you can't jump and blame one side without proof.

Right now a school got hit by something, we don't know what. You can't make an assumption without evidence. Right now we have a bunch of twitter posts and opinions. No concrete evidence.

What we know is a school got hit, IDF was in the area attacking Hamas targets, so both sides were present. We also know the school has been used in the past by Hamas to fire mortors, we also know Hamas rockets are also sometimes stored in these kind of buildings. An explosion could quite easily have come from either side.

This is a serious issue with the conflict, everyone is more than happy to jump immediately on the blame Israel bandwagon without so much as a thought to evidence or proof.

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

I can say without hesitation that lobbying has been the most damaging practice of American politics that I can think of.

 

[Deified Data]

Personally I'm not prepared to take either side at their word. I await the forensics.

 

[Opiate]

Money. The Jewish exodus from Europe was only affordable to relatively wealthy families, which meant that the Jewish-American population was statistically wealthier and better connected than either the remaining Jewish-European population or the average American. Given America's lack of social mobility and the fact entrenched wealth tends to accumulate, the average Jewish-American is disproportionately wealthy when compared to other ethnic and religious groups - it's the same reason that they're disproportionately represented in the sciences, as wealthier family corresponds to better education. A significant number of the Jewish-American population bought into the Zionist idea of a "Jewish homeland", so the American Zionist Committee for Public Affairs was founded, which later spawned the American Israel Public Affairs Committee - AIPAC, a hugely influential lobbyist group which receives a disproportionately large amount of money from an already wealthy donor base. When you're a politician running for election in the United States, the money AIPAC can provide towards your re-election is not something easily turned aside.

This is also probably why Europe isn't as pro-Israel - the Jewish population in developed European countries is actually somewhat poorer than the general population.

It's important to note that there is probably a cultural influence on Jewish wealth, as well. While I can't speak to the remaining European Jews in particular, Jews worldwide are significantly weather statistically, on average.

(Note: this isn't suggesting that there is a Jewish conspiracy, just that something in the Jewish culture clearly promotes hard work. It's simply an observation).

 

[commedieu]

Personally I'm not prepared to take either side at their word. I await the forensics.

At this point both sides are little children who can't be trusted. I can't believe this even has to happen over and over and over again.

 

[werks]

A stockpile of rockets, which typically get stored in civilian heavy areas, would easily do that.

Sure this could of likely been an accidental Israeli strike. However you can't jump and blame one side without proof.

Right now a school got hit by something, we don't know what. You can't make an assumption without evidence. Right now we have a bunch of twitter posts and opinions. No concrete evidence.

What we know is a school got hit, IDF was in the area attacking Hamas targets, so both sides were present. We also know the school has been used in the past by Hamas to fire mortors, we also know Hamas rockets are also sometimes stored in these kind of buildings. An explosion could quite easily have come from either side.

This is a serious issue with the conflict, everyone is more than happy to jump immediately on the blame Israel bandwagon without so much as a thought to evidence or proof.

You are lying.

Please show any evidence that Hamas used THAT shelter which was actively being used by the UN was also used by Hamas.

 

[Dai101]

Disgusting.

Those UN terrorist hiding in a UN building serving as UN human shields.

 

[Spineker]

Hamas does not recognize the legitimacy of Israel but is open to settling the conflict with the two state solution, using the 1967 borders and

• Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border.
• Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths. (Most of those people were in the west bank and detained because reasons during the hysteria, theycan be held indefinitely without trial, even though there is no proof that Hamas had anything to do with the three teens)
• Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people.
• Establishing an international seaport and airport which would be under U.N. supervision.
• Increasing the permitted fishing zone to 10 kilometers.
• Internationalizing the Rafah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations.
• International forces on the borders.
• Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque.
• Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement.
• Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip.

Even despite the raw hatred Israel has for Gaza, that laundry list will only piss them off further.

 

[werks]

Atleast get your story straight.

I love how the narrative is being spun as either Hamas did it or Hamas used the school so it was justified.

 

[kamorra]

At this point both sides are little children who can't be trusted. I can't believe this even has to happen over and over and over again.

Well, some of these little children are dead now. So in going with your analogy... it's about time the adults (the world) finally step in.

 

[m_shortpants]

You are lying.

Please show any evidence that Hamas used THAT shelter which was actively being used by the UN was also used by Hamas.

The burden of proof is on the deceased, obviously.

 

[Aaron]

The burden of proof is on the deceased, obviously.

Israel have never needed proof. They make claims and bomb targets. When the UN says that none of their targets had any weapons or soldiers at all, they just make more claims and bomb more targets. No one is making them prove anything.

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

Hamas does not recognize the legitimacy of Israel but is open to settling the conflict with the two state solution, using the 1967 borders and

• Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border.
• Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths. (Most of those people were in the west bank and detained because reasons during the hysteria, theycan be held indefinitely without trial, even though there is no proof that Hamas had anything to do with the three teens)
• Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people.
• Establishing an international seaport and airport which would be under U.N. supervision.
• Increasing the permitted fishing zone to 10 kilometers.
• Internationalizing the Rafah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations.
• International forces on the borders.
• Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque.
• Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement.
• Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip.

Those demands are too reasonable! What does Israel have to gain?!

 

[TheContact]

Can title changed until there's more evidence of who actually fired it? Not doubting it was Israel but to claim it was them for sure without proof is bias

 

[walking fiend]

Can title changed until there's more evidence of who actually fired it? Not doubting it was Israel but to claim it was them for sure without proof is bias

That is poor science. Unless someone proves that it was NOT IDF, it is most probable to assume that IDF has done it.

 

[werks]

When was the last time Israel had to prove that Hamas attacked Israel. But the Palestinian's have to prove that the IDF attacked Gaza?

 

[RiZ III]

IDF: Hey we think there are a few rockets in that school.

Common Sense: That is also housing hundreds of civilians.

IDF: Yes but rockets.

Common Sense: Well, you could tell the people to evacuate and then go seize the rockets.

IDF: Fuck it, blow up the whole building!

UN: WTF?

America: Israel has right to defend itself.

 

[linsivvi]

Can title changed until there's more evidence of who actually fired it? Not doubting it was Israel but to claim it was them for sure without proof is bias

Or you can read the thread and see that the UN has already confirmed it?

The only bias are displayed by those who defend the IDF no matter what.

 

[Deified Data]

That is poor science. Unless someone proves that it was NOT IDF, it is most probable to assume that IDF has done it.

The fuck? Stating a claim as fact without proper evidence is "poor science".

 

[RiZ III]

Next time there is a bank heist or a hostage situation, perhaps we should just follow the most moral army in the world and blow up the whole building. IT WAS SELF DEFENSE!

Gunman inside a school? Well blow up the school already!

 

[MisterFalcon]

AIPAC is truly amazing in being able to buy American foreign policy om their 26 million dollar yearly budget. If only there was an Arab country able to come up with more they could turn things around.

 

[Maninthemirror]

CNN reporting the un asked the IDF to
Give safe passage to those in the un shelter. That request was denied by the IDF

 

[RiZ III]

AIPAC is truly amazing in being able to buy American foreign policy om their 26 million dollar yearly budget. If only there was an Arab country able to come up with more they could turn things around.

Perhaps we should start a kickstarter.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

CNN reporting the un asked the IDF to
Give safe passage to those in the un shelter. That request was denied by the IDF

They also had the Israeli finance minister on earlier and he was talking about how the rockets aren't a problem and they shouldn't stop tourists from visiting Israel.

The interviewer seemed to be happy to just go along with it and not question this pretty surprising comment.

 

[ghst]

Next time there is a bank heist or a hostage situation, perhaps we should just follow the most moral army in the world and blow up the whole building. IT WAS SELF DEFENSE!

if only we handled the IRA in a similar fashion. we should've boxed the entire population into an occupied cork, eroded away at their basic civil rights and flattened a few schools every time a tube bomb went off, then we'd have had america on our side.

at the very least, we'd never have to have suffered richard gere's irish accent.

 

[Aaron]

They also had the Israeli finance minister on earlier and he was talking about how the rockets aren't a problem and they shouldn't stop tourists from visiting Israel.

The interviewer seemed to be happy to just go along with it and not question this pretty surprising comment.

They aren't a problem for Israel. You don't want to be visiting Gaza though.

 

[Whitechocolatekrispies]

You are lying.

Please show any evidence that Hamas used THAT shelter which was actively being used by the UN was also used by Hamas.

Of course.

Mortar shells launched from the UNRWA School in Beit Hanoun

Also if you are skeptical of the UN buildings frequently holding Hamas rockets.

They admit it happens.

 

[King_Moc]

'We started this operation to return peace and quiet to Israel, and we shall return it'
— Netanyahu

The screams of Palestinians don't count as noise, I bet. Nor do bulldozers.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Of course.

Mortar shells launched from the UNRWA School in Beit Hanoun

They were a bit late in retaliating then considering that footage is from 7 years ago.