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United Airlines violently drags a doctor off a plane so employee could take his seat

Why do you fly United?


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GhostBed

Member
I feel a lot of folks are missing the fact that this man was a doctor who was on that flight so he could treat patients the next day.

It's not like he was visiting friends or family on holiday and was slightly inconvenienced. He had people to help/save, that is a damn valid reason to resist being one of the random passengers to be forcefully removed from the flight due to the airlines own mistake.
 

Plum

Member
Well if its a private business and they ask me to leave for now, so they wouldn't have to shut down the restaurant for being in violation of the fire code for example, and they offered to pay for a movie while I wait and gave me a voucher for 3 free meals. That they were sorry but a mistake had been made and there was no other choice.
I would leave.
If I refused and they called security to remove me..that would be on me.
i probably wouldn't support their business anymore and I would tell everyone I know how horrible the experience was.. hell if they chose me in such away as to seem bigoted or racially motivated I might even try to press charges or sue, but I wouldn't refuse to leave.

Your food analogy game is terrible. This is more like:
"Sorry, Sir, but some of our employees are hungry and we're too dense to send them to the McDonalds down the road. We've randomly chosen you to leave, so please do so."
"No, I've paid for this meal in advance and I'd like to eat it."
"We'll give you a free portion of Garlic Bread."
"No."
"Someone call the police so they can beat this man!"
 
I feel a lot of folks are missing the fact that this man was a doctor who was on that flight so he could treat patients the next day.

It's not like he was visiting friends or family on holiday and was slightly inconvenienced. He had people to help/save, that is a damn valid reason to resist being one of the random passengers to be forcefully removed from the flight due to the airlines own mistake.

If you read the thread, you'll see people know full well, they just don't care. You've got the guy defending United saying that doctors can easily reschedule their appointments.
 
I wished my local airport wasn't an American/united hub. Because fuck them, worst planes in the nation worst economy class seats in the nation.
 

Emerson

May contain jokes =>
Yeah this shit is going to be a massive problem for United. They've got a ton of truly unflattering footage out there, the whole "but I'm a doctor" bad PR twist, their garbage first reaction to it. Ingredients for a real shitshow.

Imagine if Trump comments on it (not impossible). Whatever position he took it could go nuclear.
 
Yeah this shit is going to be a massive problem for United. They've got a ton of truly unflattering footage out there, the whole "but I'm a doctor" bad PR twist, their garbage first reaction to it. Ingredients for a real shitshow.

Imagine if Trump comments on it (not impossible). Whatever position he took it could go nuclear.

Asian dude, big corporation in United, not living up to one's contractual obligations. Trump will award United a medal of honor and then try to nominate it for supreme court.
 

guybrushfreeman

Unconfirmed Member
A plane is not a public space.. Him not wanting to leave is irrelevant. He was asked to leave its a private plane. They have a right to have him physically removed.
It sucks it happened but he forced their hand. Again he has no right to be there and is obligated to leave when asked. PERIOD.

The shitty situation is all UNITED's fault. The manor in which he was physically removed was all the POLICES fault. but the choice to not leave when asked which led to him being physically removed was all HIS OWN FAULT.

anyway this is just a circular argument, you feel he has the right to not comply and no ends justify removing him.
I feel they have the right to ask him to remove himself and physically enforce that right if he refuses.

You're wrong on so many points it's disgusting. I can't have people violently assaulted by the police for any reason. Private plane is meaningless, he didn't fucking sneak onto the plane.

He did not force their hand. That's completely ridiculous. If he didn't want to leave it's their responsibility to fix the situation. It disgusts me you continue to act like getting he has any responsibility for the physical abuse he suffered.

They had other options, you can't deny that.

I am disgusted that you think his refusal to leave justifies physical violence. It does not. They needed to find another way to deal with it. You can't accept such an incredibly low bar to justify the abuse of others.

Take a look at the photos. Are you really saying he deserved that for not getting off an overbooked flight? It terrifies me you accept physical violence as an acceptable resolution to that situation

You can't just jump straight to beating people when you don't get your way
 
I feel a lot of folks are missing the fact that this man was a doctor who was on that flight so he could treat patients the next day.

It's not like he was visiting friends or family on holiday and was slightly inconvenienced. He had people to help/save, that is a damn valid reason to resist being one of the random passengers to be forcefully removed from the flight due to the airlines own mistake.

This thread has someone arguing he had to call his hospital at some point between his getting his head smashed and being dragged off the plane in order to prove he was flying home to save lives, otherwise he got what was coming to him.
 

bloodydrake

Cool Smoke Luke
Your food analogy game is terrible. This is more like:
"Sorry, Sir, but some of our employees are hungry and we're too dense to send them to the McDonalds down the road. We've randomly chosen you to leave, so please do so."
"No, I've paid for this meal in advance and I'd like to eat it."
"We'll give you a free portion of Garlic Bread."
"No."
"Someone call the police so they can beat this man!"

i was responding to a food analogy.. but whateva
 

Plum

Member
I feel a lot of folks are missing the fact that this man was a doctor who was on that flight so he could treat patients the next day.

It's not like he was visiting friends or family on holiday and was slightly inconvenienced. He had people to help/save, that is a damn valid reason to resist being one of the random passengers to be forcefully removed from the flight due to the airlines own mistake.

It doesn't matter who he is really, it may make the situation worse but it doesn't make United's actions any more justified. Someone just visiting somewhere for a holiday would have been more likely to just comply, definitely, but if they hadn't they wouldn't have "deserved" the treatment United and the Police gave them any more. I know you've got good intentions with this post but it's still diluting the issue somewhat.
 

fastmower

Member
giphy.gif
That GIF is gold.
 

Plum

Member
i was responding to a food analogy.. but whateva

Doesn't make yours any better, nor make mine or the guy you responded to's analogy any less valid. I'd say ours are a lot closer to the situation at hand than yours, there was no equivalent to a fire code being violated here.
 

Gotchaye

Member
He's partially responsible for that outcome. To absolve him of all personal responsibility for those actions is insane.

I'm not really clear on what you think he's responsible for, and in what sense.

First, it's worth looking at how this all worked out. He was eventually let back onto the plane, and it's not clear if he would have been allowed on the flight if he had gotten off when asked. It seems unlikely. I don't have a great idea of how this is going to unfold legally but you've got to figure that he's likely to get a big settlement. And of course United comes out of this looking awful. So I find it pretty plausible that he made a reasonable and rational choice - this was quite possibly the best outcome he could have hoped for given his options.

Further, it doesn't appear that anybody else was hurt, except for the flight being delayed. It is not clear that a significant number of people blame him for the delay, and if all that's being claimed is that the doctor is part of what caused the flight to be delayed, well, who gives a shit? I mean, yes, if he had acted differently probably the flight would not have been (as) delayed. But unless he's to blame for the flight being delayed this just isn't interesting. There are lots of ways that people's lives would be better if other people acted differently, but it doesn't follow that those other people have a duty to act differently.

And I'm not sure what the argument is that he's partly to blame for this. I've seen you say that the airline has a (legal) right to kick him off, but of course that doesn't get you to moral blame. You've expressed the sentiment that it would be bad if everyone acted like this so that United had to change its policy, but... why? You've also seemed to grant that United's policy is bad and should be changed, so this seems like a clear win. Why is he a bad example for the children? Concretely.

Ultimately I really have no idea who you think this guy has wrongfully harmed, if it's not United who you claim to not be defending, because at every step you seem to be granting that everyone except United probably comes out of this a winner unless we do what you want and try to shield United from moral and legal blame as a result of this.

Well if its a private business and they ask me to leave for now, so they wouldn't have to shut down the restaurant for being in violation of the fire code for example, and they offered to pay for a movie while I wait and gave me a voucher for 3 free meals. That they were sorry but a mistake had been made and there was no other choice.
I would leave.
If I refused and they called security to remove me..that would be on me.
i probably wouldn't support their business anymore and I would tell everyone I know how horrible the experience was.. hell if they chose me in such away as to seem bigoted or racially motivated I might even try to press charges or sue, but I wouldn't refuse to leave.

This analogy doesn't help. The reasonableness of the request that the person leave and the value of the compensation offered are absolutely central to how justified refusing to leave is. Most people would be pretty happy to show up to a restaurant and then get told to go eat elsewhere tonight but here's a voucher for three free meals later. It is hard to conceive of the restaurant actually needing to forcibly remove someone in this situation because they can't find volunteers, and it is hard to conceive of the restaurant then actually forcibly removing someone instead of just increasing the offer. You can't ignore that it is immediately obvious to everyone else that United could have just tried offering more compensation until someone bit. Maybe there is an amount of compensation where if nobody's taking it you can say that United can't reasonably be expected to offer more and is justified in resorting to kicking people off by lottery, but surely this is well above $800. Edit: And, I mean, in real life of course the restaurant is more likely to go straight to the most recently-seated table and ask them to wait five minutes longer but get a free appetizer - they're not going to let it get to the point where they have to go find someone in the middle of eating their meal to eject.

Also you're still really unclear on exactly what it means that it's "on you" that security got called.
 

moai

Member
this sucks and to my surprise this also exists in my country. if you get denied board for overbooking there is a table that shows the amount of compensation.
for a 500km flight its 80 usd.
for a 8.000km flight its 805 usd.
never knew this..................:(
 

Tovarisc

Member
I actually kind of doubt it but either way it'd be a disaster really.

After he sided with ISP corporations and wrote that privacy thing into law, giving ISP's right to sell your Internet history without your permission, I really don't expect him to side with little man.
 
I get the feeling that if GAF was around in the 60s, the eventual Rosa Parks thread would not look pretty.
"Look, I get what colored people are fighting for and parts of segeration are total bullshit but she should have just given up the seat. She was gonna go where she needed to in the end. This kinda stuff just makes the movement look bad. And before you call me racist, I'm dating a colored person and she agrees with me."
 

Quotient

Member
You're wrong on so many points it's disgusting. I can't have people violently assaulted by the police for any reason. Private plane is meaningless, he didn't fucking sneak onto the plane.

He did not force their hand. That's completely ridiculous. If he didn't want to leave it's their responsibility to fix the situation. It disgusts me you continue to act like getting he has any responsibility for the physical abuse he suffered.

They had other options, you can't deny that.

I am disgusted that you think his refusal to leave justifies physical violence. It does not. They needed to find another way to deal with it. You can't accept such an incredibly low bar to justify the abuse of others.

Take a look at the photos. Are you really saying he deserved that for not getting off an overbooked flight? It terrifies me you accept physical violence as an acceptable resolution to that situation

You can't just jump straight to beating people when you don't get your way

I am curious how else are the Police suppose to remove someone from the plane if they don't willing comply and leave?

The way i see it is, United customer service is terrible and instead of using better financial incentives to get someone to volunteer, instead they asked the Police to remove a passenger at random.
 

Emerson

May contain jokes =>
Wait you doubt Trump would be on the side of big corporations and against minorities???

Trump is a reactionary who would probably see this video and be outraged like an average person, and would not take the time to think about whether it's a good idea before reacting publicly. It wouldn't be until later when his establishment politician advisers told him why supporting United is the right play that he would see it that way.
 

depths20XX

Member
I feel a lot of folks are missing the fact that this man was a doctor who was on that flight so he could treat patients the next day.

It's not like he was visiting friends or family on holiday and was slightly inconvenienced. He had people to help/save, that is a damn valid reason to resist being one of the random passengers to be forcefully removed from the flight due to the airlines own mistake.

To me his profession isn't really relevant here. If it wasn't him they could have went on to the next person who could have an equally compelling reason to stay on the plane. Are they just supposed to pick at random until they find someone who doesn't need to get somewhere for a good enough reason? The issue is that they shouldnt be overbooking and treating people like that.
 

guybrushfreeman

Unconfirmed Member
I am curious how else are the Police suppose to remove someone from the plane if they don't willing comply and leave?

The way i see it is, United customer service is terrible and instead of using better financial incentives to get someone to volunteer, instead they asked the Police to remove a passenger at random.

United never needed to involve the police. Why does anyone need to suffer physical violence because of an overlooked plane?
 

JohnsonUT

Member
Airlines have area / regional pseudo-monopolies?

Yes. As airlines merge, airports lose competition and can be dominated by one carrier who will only offer highly profitable flights and can charge very high fare rates in general.

Part of the reason for some of the regions in the US struggling so bad is because airline consolidation/deregulation leads to difficulty for cities to be corporate headquarters. See St. Louis and Cincinnati as examples.
 

pompidu

Member
The fact that a corporation can call in police to enforce some kind of TOS spelled out, in which I am sure of, unreadable, small letters is terrifying.
 
Nice lookin' airplane seat you got here. Would be a real shame if we had to "RE-ACCOMODATE" ya. Knuckles, persuade our passenger to "volunteer".
 
Well yeah if neogaf was around in the 60's chances are there would be a lot more racists on it.

Still, pretty stupid comparison to a randomly selected passenger of an overbooked flight.

The racism isn't even necessary for the comparison, just the blatant corporate slurping and adherence to nonsensical rules. The CEO wouldn't be apologizing if this wasn't a PR nightmare. As an employee in a customer-facing field, one of your #1 priorities is to avoid PR nightmares.

Having a middle-aged, educated, upstanding citizen dragged forcibly off of public transportation in cuffs was a bad look 60 years ago, and surprise surprise, a bad look today.
 
Good lord this is CEO stepping down type of disaster


This and the leggings incident my jesus just blow it all up......United's PR department is shitting their collective pants
 

Menchi

Member
And guess what? No one would have known about this practice other than those who have been affected by it or this guy getting kicked off the plane if he hadn't stood his ground. These practices continue because people are willing to accept what sometimes can feel like a bribe. They know they've got you in a poor bargaining position and they use that to their advantage.

Right you are. I agree overbooking is a shitty thing to do and it completely undermines customers for the sake of profit and maybe people aren't aware of the issue. That said, I don't think limiting businesses from making decisions, as long as they're not discriminatory, is the way. Let customers regulate that with their feedback, wallet and as seen here, backlash for shitty actions.

I'll ask again, If the guy sues, do you think he will win?

Oh sorry didn't see your original post. I think he'd solely on the physical harm he'd recieved, which whilst accidental, is solely as a result of the forced removal. If he hadn't been injured? I doubt he'd win anything in court, he'd just be expected be compensated reasonably.

I feel like I've said this numerous times, and it gets glossed over, time and time again. I don't support the way this was handled in the slightest, it was shitty, horrible customer service for the sake of profits.
 

GhostBed

Member
If you read the thread, you'll see people know full well, they just don't care. You've got the guy defending United saying that doctors can easily reschedule their appointments.

This thread has someone arguing he had to call his hospital at some point between his getting his head smashed and being dragged off the plane in order to prove he was flying home to save lives, otherwise he got what was coming to him.

Ah, my mistake. Mostly skimmed thru the thread, must have missed that.

But i guess I would agree that it doesn't matter what his profession is, this is terribly shitty practice by the airline and shouldn't have had to happen at all. Him being a doctor just makes this PR nightmare that much worse.
 
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