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[ethomaz]

OK, you are right. A 2070S is much more powerful than a 3090.

...

"Dude, that demo running in the editor isn't even cooked.
It's not just memory."

Try again.

Your running at higher framerate can be a lot things like lower resolution.
What your Windows native resolution and what scaling % did you choose?

For exemple if your Windows is set to 1440p (2560x1440) then 50% is 1280x770 that is near half of 1080p.

 

[SlimySnake]

So I went back to the DF video and made a quick comparison.
At minute 35:40, they take a car and drive it along the street.
Without crashing, they get 24-28 fps. With some hitching.



So I took the package demo, set the res scale to 77% and drove on the same street, same car, but white.
I got 28-33 fps. But I got more hitching. Probably the PS5 SSD is doing much better job at streaming assets than my PC, on a demo without DirectStorage.

Thanks! See above. removing traffic in the PS5 version got me a locked 30 fps. Though I do remember turning off Pedestrians as well. You can try it if you have time and see if it improves your fps.

Isnt the hitching a Unreal Engine issue on PC? Or DX12? It's the damn shader compilation issue that plagues Elden Rings for the first five minutes whenever i boot it up, no? There is no hitching or stuttering in the XSX version either. I think it's just a benefit of having shared RAM on consoles.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

We dont know what settings the PS5 is using. Typically consoles use medium settings with RT settings lower than PC low. So any comparison with 3090 needs to take that into account.


that is roughly on par with my 2080. I need to download this demo, but my experience with the Ancient demo was so bad I swore off on installing UE5 again. Just couldnt get it to work.


So Epic was not lying when they said they did not max out the CPU to leave room for other game systems and logic. These kind of graphics should be definitely doable on next gen consoles.

The PS5 also holds a steady 30 fps when you remove traffic.

The cpu on single cores can go up to 99% quite often on core 1 and 9. Its too much clutter so i just set it to overall usage. Here is a video showing the difference. CPU usage jumps big time and then a stutter happens. Turning off the cars and people and those stutters are pretty much gone with a much higher gpu usage and fps. My undervolted 3700x seems to be the issue or just a lack of optimization on this version. I can only assume the ps5 and xbox versions are better optimized then this.

 

[winjer]

...

"Dude, that demo running in the editor isn't even cooked.
It's not just memory."

Try again.

Your running at higher framerate can be a lot things like lower resolution.
What your Windows native resolution and what scaling % did you choose?

I already said my frame rate, resolution and screen percentage.

 

[ethomaz]

I already said my frame rate, resolution and screen percentage.

But not your windows resolution...

 

[winjer]

Thanks! See above. removing traffic in the PS5 version got me a locked 30 fps. Though I do remember turning off Pedestrians as well. You can try it if you have time and see if it improves your fps.

Isnt the hitching a Unreal Engine issue on PC? Or DX12? It's the damn shader compilation issue that plagues Elden Rings for the first five minutes whenever i boot it up, no? There is no hitching or stuttering in the XSX version either. I think it's just a benefit of having shared RAM on consoles.

I'm pretty sure it's asset streaming.
Be it inside the editor or in the packaged demo, even after going around in the city, I still get lots of hitching.
If it was shader compilation, it would even out after a while.

 

[winjer]

But not your windows resolution...

yes I have.

 

[RJMacready73]

so to my old ass eyes a god tier PC running a 3090 looks no real different to my £450 PS5... all those £££ doing what exactly? a few additional fps?

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

ITT UE5 = matrix demo...

Even though the tutorials epic posted are the real highlights:

 

[winjer]

Thanks! See above. removing traffic in the PS5 version got me a locked 30 fps. Though I do remember turning off Pedestrians as well. You can try it if you have time and see if it improves your fps.

Isnt the hitching a Unreal Engine issue on PC? Or DX12? It's the damn shader compilation issue that plagues Elden Rings for the first five minutes whenever i boot it up, no? There is no hitching or stuttering in the XSX version either. I think it's just a benefit of having shared RAM on consoles.

Did that. Removed all pedestrians and traffic. Left in the parked cars at 25%.
Stuttering is almost gone completely.
Frame rate at the start of the demo went from 36 to 40, because there's less objects to render. I also set the TSR render resolution to 66%, like DLSS quality.
Driving down the street, got 35-40 fps.

 

[SlimySnake]

so to my old ass eyes a god tier PC running a 3090 looks no real different to my £450 PS5... all those £££ doing what exactly? a few additional fps?

Thats pretty much what PC gaming has always been. You get some extra FPS and some higher quality AA and shadows. The god tier PC is still only 2x more powerful than the PS5 so you will get 2x more framerate. DLSS might add a few more but the PS5 is also using TSR.

You might also be getting better ray traced reflections but those are hard to notice unless you zoom in.

 

[SlimySnake]

Did that. Removed all pedestrians and traffic. Left in the parked cars at 25%.
Stuttering is almost gone completely.
Frame rate at the start of the demo went from 36 to 40, because there's less objects to render.
Driving down the street, got 35-40 fps.

Nice. So I guess the stuttering is indeed tied to asset streaming because its no longer loading the pedestrians and cars?

I am surprised that you didnt get a bigger FPS boost. I wonder if its possible to even hit 60 fps in this demo if you change the settings to low or set the resolution to 720p. The 3090 footage also seems to hover around 40 fps which leads me to believe that the issue might be with the engine.

 

[adamsapple]

Copying this list from Era.

Looks like MS first party is very heavily invested in UE5. Won't be surprised if Halo moves to UE5 for future games too at this rate:


-Redfall;
-Perfect Dark;
-inXline new AAA RPG;
-Everwild;
-State of Decay 3;
-Double Fine New IP;
-Hellblade 2;
-Project Mara;
-Gears Next;
-The Coalition Project 2;
-The Outer Worlds 2;

 

[SlimySnake]

The cpu on single cores can go up to 99% quite often on core 1 and 9. Its too much clutter so i just set it to overall usage. Here is a video showing the difference. CPU usage jumps big time and then a stutter happens. Turning off the cars and people and those stutters are pretty much gone with a much higher gpu usage and fps. My undervolted 3700x seems to be the issue or just a lack of optimization on this version. I can only assume the ps5 and xbox versions are better optimized then this.

Yeah, both your CPU and GPU usage isnt maxing out and yet your FPS almost hits a cap. definitely not optimized to take advantage of all CPU cores.

I mean 71% GPU usage with an uncapped framerate is something I never see in PC games. They are definitely leaving 29% more performance on the table here.

 

[winjer]

Nice. So I guess the stuttering is indeed tied to asset streaming because its no longer loading the pedestrians and cars?

I am surprised that you didnt get a bigger FPS boost. I wonder if its possible to even hit 60 fps in this demo if you change the settings to low or set the resolution to 720p. The 3090 footage also seems to hover around 40 fps which leads me to believe that the issue might be with the engine.

Really seems like it's asset streaming.

Since I only got a 2070S, I'm limited in shader throughput.
I forgot to mention, I had lowered the res scaling to 66% while doing the car race test.
At 77% res scale, I get 28-34 fps.
It will probably take a much lower res to get to 60 fps. Or lower graphics settings.

 

[SlimySnake]

This is amazing. Someone added third person flying to this demo. He spends the second half of the video crashing into busses sending them to the shadowrealm.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

Did that. Removed all pedestrians and traffic. Left in the parked cars at 25%.
Stuttering is almost gone completely.
Frame rate at the start of the demo went from 36 to 40, because there's less objects to render. I also set the TSR render resolution to 66%, like DLSS quality.
Driving down the street, got 35-40 fps.

I dont think it has anything to do with rendering or streaming. This is on a roof far above any traffic and giving the fps time to settle after changing

 

[winjer]

 

[SlimySnake]

This guy says the exectuable is running at native 4k, but the distant buildings have the same shimmering I see on the PS5.

Where can I find this exe file? I tried downloading it from the twitter link yesterday but the speeds were shit. Do we know what TSR setting the exe comes with? 3080 doing 35-40 fps at native 4k is pretty good.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

This guy says the exectuable is running at native 4k, but the distant buildings have the same shimmering I see on the PS5.

Where can I find this exe file? I tried downloading it from the twitter link yesterday but the speeds were shit. Do we know what TSR setting the exe comes with? 3080 doing 35-40 fps at native 4k is pretty good.

Mine came 1440p 100%

 

[winjer]

This guy says the exectuable is running at native 4k, but the distant buildings have the same shimmering I see on the PS5.

Where can I find this exe file? I tried downloading it from the twitter link yesterday but the speeds were shit. Do we know what TSR setting the exe comes with? 3080 doing 35-40 fps at native 4k is pretty good.

Default resolution scale for this demo is 100%. If you want to lower it, its necessary to edit the usergamesettings.ini

 

[rofif]

looks like someone beat me to it. There yall go. I hope he packaged it in ship (production) mode.

I've not installed marketplace since I am still avoiding epic store and so on.
Are there any other cool stuff on there?
Getting that demo compiled to see how it runs on 3080 compared to ps5.

btw. This is annoying AF. Can't they just compile it, add resolution set up and release these demons normally ?! Same with nvidia marbles demo. wtf
edit: Can't download. Mega got some stupid limit. Use torrent, cmon... that's the pc experience I expected so far lol

 

[sinnergy]

Pc versions seem to have streaming issues .. if I see these videos .. time for RTX io and direct storage .

 

[Hoddi]

This guy says the exectuable is running at native 4k, but the distant buildings have the same shimmering I see on the PS5.

Where can I find this exe file? I tried downloading it from the twitter link yesterday but the speeds were shit. Do we know what TSR setting the exe comes with? 3080 doing 35-40 fps at native 4k is pretty good.

TSR equals your output resolution up to a max of 1440p. You'll need to override it through the console to go higher.

Basically, assume any 4k or 8k footage to run with TSR at 1440p unless it's specified otherwise.

 

[SlimySnake]

Default resolution scale for this demo is 100%. If you want to lower it, its necessary to edit the usergamesettings.ini

So the 3080 is doing native 4k 35-40 fps? Thats 4x more pixels than the PS5.
Edit: nvm. I guess its 1440p

TSR equals your output resolution up to a max of 1440p. You'll need to override it through the console to go higher.

Basically, assume any 4k or 8k footage to run with TSR at 1440p unless it's specified otherwise.

 

[winjer]

So the 3080 is doing native 4k 35-40 fps? Thats 4x more pixels than the PS5.

The 3080 is a great card. It's just 10-15% slower than a 3090.

 

[vpance]

Damn, I can't build the project. Takes like 20 mins each time but there's some weird error right at the end. Runs smooth in the editor though.

 

[firegamer273]

man i think this gen will be a unreal engine 5 mostly games gen . every dev is going forward unreal engine 5.

 

[Larxia]

I've not installed marketplace since I am still avoiding epic store and so on.
Are there any other cool stuff on there?
Getting that demo compiled to see how it runs on 3080 compared to ps5.

btw. This is annoying AF. Can't they just compile it, add resolution set up and release these demons normally ?! Same with nvidia marbles demo. wtf
edit: Can't download. Mega got some stupid limit. Use torrent, cmon... that's the pc experience I expected so far lol

I wanted to try to package it myself, downloaded the whole thing on the editor, but I keep getting a SDK error and I can't package anything, other people seem to have the same issue.
I can't download the already packaged version either, googledrive isn't working and MEGA has the download limit.
I only have a GTX 1080 though so I'm expecting like 5 fps lol It does run at around 40 fps in the editor when moving around the scene, but that's without any scripts running. Curious to see how it run in action on my gpu lol

 

[winjer]

I wanted to try to package it myself, downloaded the whole thing on the editor, but I keep getting a SDK error and I can't package anything, other people seem to have the same issue.
I can't download the already packaged version either, googledrive isn't working and MEGA has the download limit.
I only have a GTX 1080 though so I'm expecting like 5 fps lol It does run at around 40 fps in the editor when moving around the scene, but that's without any scripts running. Curious to see how it run in action on my gpu lol

You need this:

Windows SDK - Windows app development

The Windows SDK for Windows 11 contains headers, libraries, and tools you can use when you create apps that run on Windows.

developer.microsoft.com

 

[SlimySnake]

The 3080 is a great card. It's just 10-15% slower than a 3090.

Yeah, but it's 60% better than the 2080 which is roughly on par with the PS5 in standard rasterization which is what UE5 seems to be using. I could see it run the demo at 1440p 35-40 fps, but native 4k is 4x more pixels.

UserBenchmark: Nvidia RTX 2080 vs 3080

It offers 70% more performance than your 2070 Super which should put it exactly around the 3.6 million pixels of a native 1440p image. If the 3080 is running it at native 4k then we can assume the RTX cores are getting a good workout.

 

[Larxia]

You need this:

Windows SDK - Windows app development

The Windows SDK for Windows 11 contains headers, libraries, and tools you can use when you create apps that run on Windows.

developer.microsoft.com

I tried installing this but it didn't do anything sadly, outside of installing tons of programs.

 

[winjer]

Yeah, but it's 60% better than the 2080 which is roughly on par with the PS5 in standard rasterization which is what UE5 seems to be using. I could see it run the demo at 1440p 35-40 fps, but native 4k is 4x more pixels.

UserBenchmark: Nvidia RTX 2080 vs 3080

It offers 70% more performance than your 2070 Super which should put it exactly around the 3.6 million pixels of a native 1440p image. If the 3080 is running it at native 4k then we can assume the RTX cores are getting a good workout.

First, never use UserBenchmark. It's one of the most biased sites for tech. Absolute trash. Especially for CPUs.

I recommend using Techpowerup. They are a more reputable site.

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER Specs

NVIDIA TU104, 1770 MHz, 2560 Cores, 160 TMUs, 64 ROPs, 8192 MB GDDR6, 1750 MHz, 256 bit

www.techpowerup.com

The card that would better match the PS5 GPU is the 2070Super. Not the 2080.
DF screwed up some benchmarks and comparisons.

 

[ethomaz]

Yeah, but it's 60% better than the 2080 which is roughly on par with the PS5 in standard rasterization which is what UE5 seems to be using. I could see it run the demo at 1440p 35-40 fps, but native 4k is 4x more pixels.

UserBenchmark: Nvidia RTX 2080 vs 3080

It offers 70% more performance than your 2070 Super which should put it exactly around the 3.6 million pixels of a native 1440p image. If the 3080 is running it at native 4k then we can assume the RTX cores are getting a good workout.

What is your Windows Resolution set? In 100% it should run at the same resolution as you set your Windows resolution.
If you change your Windows Resolution it will run at that new set resolution as 100%.
Outside that you can change that % of the Windows Resolution... like 75% will give you 75% of both axis of your Windows resolution.

You will run at native 4k if you Windows Resolution can reach 4k... it needs 4k monitor or TV for that.

 

[sinnergy]

man i think this gen will be a unreal engine 5 mostly games gen . every dev is going forward unreal engine 5.

Seems nanite and lumen cost to much to build for themselves..

 

[vpance]

I tried installing this but it didn't do anything sadly, outside of installing tons of programs.

You need the SDK and .NET Core 3.1

Download .NET Core 3.1 (Linux, macOS, and Windows)

.NET Core 3.1 downloads for Linux, macOS, and Windows. .NET is a free, cross-platform, open-source developer platform for building many different types of applications.

dotnet.microsoft.com

I had the SDK error also but installing the above 2 let the process start. But now I got a different issue with packaging.

 

[Md Ray]

First, never use UserBenchmark. It's one of the most biased sites for tech. Absolute trash. Especially for CPUs.

I recommend using Techpowerup. They are a more reputable site.

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER Specs

NVIDIA TU104, 1770 MHz, 2560 Cores, 160 TMUs, 64 ROPs, 8192 MB GDDR6, 1750 MHz, 256 bit

www.techpowerup.com

The card that would better match the PS5 GPU is the 2070Super. Not the 2080.
DF screwed up some benchmarks and comparisons.

Did they? Which one, the Death Stranding one?

Seems nanotechnology and lumen cost to much to build for themselves..

"nanotechnology" lmfao!

 

[winjer]

I had the SDK error also but installing the above 2 let the process start. But now I got a different issue with packaging.

There is an option to see the log during packaging.
What error is it producing?

Did they? Which one, the Death Stranding one?

That, mostly because of testing conditions Alex set up.
And the AC Valhala. A game that at launch ran badly on nVidia cards. Recent drivers improved performance, but it's still a game that favors AMD, a lot.

 

[Larxia]

You need the SDK and .NET Core 3.1

Download .NET Core 3.1 (Linux, macOS, and Windows)

.NET Core 3.1 downloads for Linux, macOS, and Windows. .NET is a free, cross-platform, open-source developer platform for building many different types of applications.

dotnet.microsoft.com

I had the SDK error also but installing the above 2 let the process start. But now I got a different issue with packaging.

I'll try that too thanks

 

[vpance]

There is an option to see the log during packaging.
What error is it producing?

First it said CitySample.target was missing, so I made a copy of CitySampleEditor.target and renamed it to that. Then I ran it again and the next error was about using reserved keywords in filenames like IOS and Android so now I'm going to try deleting those from the target file.

 

[ethomaz]

Nevermind.

Edit - Just to add a bit he says to take what he is saying with a grain of salt but he thinks there is not difference (nothing changed) from the PS5 demo.

"I'm really not sure on all the content details. AFAIK it's basically the same as what was released, but of course consoles will have their own set of scalability settings and the like. There may be some gameplay/physics differences due to divergence from the main branch and subsequent merge, but from a graphics perspective it's basically the same other than potential minor settings differences. Again, take with a grain of salt though... there may have been other changes I'm not aware of."

 

[SlimySnake]

First, never use UserBenchmark. It's one of the most biased sites for tech. Absolute trash. Especially for CPUs.

I recommend using Techpowerup. They are a more reputable site.

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER Specs

NVIDIA TU104, 1770 MHz, 2560 Cores, 160 TMUs, 64 ROPs, 8192 MB GDDR6, 1750 MHz, 256 bit

www.techpowerup.com

The card that would better match the PS5 GPU is the 2070Super. Not the 2080.
DF screwed up some benchmarks and comparisons.

Yeah, but it's 76% on techpowerup, 72% on user benchmark. Hardly a big difference.

For all we know, UE5 might benefit the PS5 like AC Valhalla and Death Stranding engines. Both the original demo and the Matrix demo were optimized for the PS5. MS literally had to send engineers from Coalition to help get the most out of the XSX and XSS. Regardless, I dont really care about the PS5 = 2080 comparisons by DF. To me, MS telling DF that the XSX is roughly equivalent to 2080 based on Gears 5 benchmarks is a better indicator than any test DF would do. So even if the PS5 is only a 2070 Super, I think using the 2080 as a benchmark for consoles is ok for standard rasterization.

Now, this game is using ray tracing so it might not be applicable here but right now, Im not seeing a big difference in performance in RTX GPUs over the xsx.

 

[winjer]

An interesting post that ethomaz removed.

Unreal Engine 5, [UE5 Developer Availability 2022-04-05]

ready at down its now facebook property but to be honest sequel probably never will be created Probably not if facebook is involved no :p Edit. Great to see Epic games working together with MS with the support of the unreal engine. They have a history all the way back to 2002 (6th gen). Sony...

forum.beyond3d.com

i understand the editor needs more ram to be kept in the background while running a demo/project, but i don't see why it would take away CPU/GPU power, as it's supposed to show devs how their project is supposed to run in game conditions. It's like console devkits which have same specs as console but with more ram ?

It can take a *lot* more CPU power because it's reading from unbaked assets "just in time", and from all over the place in RAM/HDD and maintaining tons of extra meta-data and garbage collection around everything. Compare this vs. compressed, runtime-optimized cooked assets. Stutters and streaming being worse in particular are definitely to be expected in editor. On the GPU side it is usually less severe depending on your editor build/config.

That said, if analyzing performance here be sure to actually dive in via unreal insights or a proper GPU profiling tool. The simple ingame "stat" counters are unfortunately fairly unreliable on Windows as far as CPU/GPU load goes, and "stat gpu" will often misattribute performance when things are CPU bound (which they often are).

If you're running on a high end GPU there's a pretty good chance you are actually CPU bound in this demo on PC. Definitely in editor, but probably also in cooked builds. There are a number of reasons for that and hopefully that can be improved in the future, but ultimately it was designed to target 30fps from the start and while it's pretty easy to scale GPU work with scalability settings, the CPU stuff is harder of course (beyond raw stuff like lowering traffic/crowd density and so on).

But yeah if you want to do overall performance profiling, you should definitely use a cooked, shipping (or at least "test") build.

 

[ethomaz]

An interesting post that ethomaz removed.

Unreal Engine 5, [UE5 Developer Availability 2022-04-05]

ready at down its now facebook property but to be honest sequel probably never will be created Probably not if facebook is involved no :p Edit. Great to see Epic games working together with MS with the support of the unreal engine. They have a history all the way back to 2002 (6th gen). Sony...

forum.beyond3d.com

It was the next one I removed.
I ended editing and adding the content.... I don't know if he wants to share.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

An interesting post that ethomaz removed.

Unreal Engine 5, [UE5 Developer Availability 2022-04-05]

ready at down its now facebook property but to be honest sequel probably never will be created Probably not if facebook is involved no :p Edit. Great to see Epic games working together with MS with the support of the unreal engine. They have a history all the way back to 2002 (6th gen). Sony...

forum.beyond3d.com

So it's cpu bound like I said?

 

[ethomaz]

So it's cpu bound like I said?

He says the chances are high you are CPU bound with high-end GPUs.
Just to add a bit more... he works on the team Nanite that is different from the team that made that Matrix related demos.... he is not sure about all details.

People are having issues even with TOP dog CPUs... so maybe it will be hard to increase the framerate over 30fps with actual hardware.

 

[winjer]

So it's cpu bound like I said?

Yeah. Seems like the CPU has a big role in this UE5 demo.
But my 2070S was always at 99%, so it's probably still the biggest bottleneck.

Then again, the video I posted earlier showed a 3080 at 4K, was having a GPU utilization of 90%.
And he was using a 5950X, on the packaged demo.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

Yeah. Seems like the CPU has a big role in this UE5 demo.
But my 2070S was always at 99%, so it's probably still the biggest bottleneck.

Then again, the video I posted earlier showed a 3080 at 4K, was having a GPU utilization of 90%.
And he was using a 5950X, on the packaged demo.

You have a 5600x?
And I mean for me and my 3700x. I just can't imagine it's anything else since i can't get over 50 fps regardless of settings but GPU usage can go as low as 30%

 

[ethomaz]

More.

"I'd have to look up the details, but at a high level it's normally somewhere around Epic. For virtual shadow maps (which I am most familiar with), it was basically Epic on PS5/XSX, except the consoles had "static separate" caching turned on (see the VSM docs for the cvar). Note that the console settings may not match perfectly with one of the scalability presets as they typically set the cvars directly."

 

[Larxia]

You need the SDK and .NET Core 3.1

Download .NET Core 3.1 (Linux, macOS, and Windows)

.NET Core 3.1 downloads for Linux, macOS, and Windows. .NET is a free, cross-platform, open-source developer platform for building many different types of applications.

dotnet.microsoft.com

I had the SDK error also but installing the above 2 let the process start. But now I got a different issue with packaging.

Still not working I really thought it did because after installing these something changed, I could now select "force update" for the SDK in unreal, and when I do it says it "Installing SDK complete!" while it used to fail before. But it still doesn't work, also got these 2 warnings in the log.

It's also weird because on the update tab it says installed SDK : 10.0.19044.0, but in the lower menu "SDK MANAGEMENT" the installed SDK line is empty

Edit: Actually, it seems like I can package, I tried with a default project and it worked, it's just that unreal still warns me about SDK not being installed properly, if I want to keep going etc... It's all quite strange, seems broken.