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Update: Shadow of War does not require internet connection to play

people finding it not "shady" is the reason publishers are forcing them on single player games, you know whats not shady? cheats, they used to be pretty common but now they sell them, and for some reason that i do not understand, there are a few people defending this, not to mention that lootboxes are a form of gambling, do you consider gambling good too?
'Shady' means it is underhanded or dishonest. How is explaining the loot box system months before the game is even released 'shady'? If they had put this system in, made it integral to progressing in the game, then it would actually be as deceitful as people are making it out to be.

I find gambling amoral. These systems have been in 1P games before and they will be in them in the future. When I thought the slot machine system of FIFA got to be too big of a part of the game and not something I wanted to partake in, I stopped buying the games. An adult should be well equipped to engage in these systems if they want or to not.

I can already tell with 100% certainty I won't engage with these systems in Shadow of War. That's why it doesn't really matter in the long run.
i understand very well why they sell it, what i do not understand is why consumers are defending this behavior.
I like AAA games. I like AAA games that feature IP I enjoy. I acknowledge that large, AAA, mainly 1P games are expensive to make. If whales need to exist to subsidize these games for them to exist in the way they currently do, so be it. No skin off my back.
 

Mooreberg

Member
Because they make money? In popular games like CoD, Halo, Gears, CS:Go etc they make so much money that the developers feel comfortable abandoning the sale of traditional DLC things like map packs. Warner Brothers have always been only slightly behind whatever the current state of the art is for shitty practices, so the inclusion of Loot Boxes isn't entirely surprising.


That is the rub though - this is not CSGO or COD. Even PUBG did not introduce this sort of thing until it was a full blown sales sensation. Evolve does not actually have the most expensive digital junk ever, but when you wrap it up in a game that hasn't earned the distinction it can go very sideways. I don't think this can do more harm to the game succeeding than the delay into October could, but what a 30 million selling $14.99 game manages to accomplish does not seem at all instructive for a game like this. Especially in the case of a game that won't require much waiting for Black Friday discounts.
 
RANGEEEEEEEEEEEEE'
ssjR5kO.gif


DO YOU LIKE THIS HELMET?

YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO PAY FOR IT ME THINKS

oh god, don't give them any ideas.
 

Sohaim

Member
'Shady' means it is underhanded or dishonest. How is explaining the loot box system months before the game is even released 'shady'? If they had put this system in, made in integral to progressing in the game, then it would actually be as deceitful as people are making it out to be.

I find gambling amoral. These systems have been in 1P games before and they will be in them in the future. When I thought the slot machine system of FIFA got to be too big of a part of the game and not something I wanted to partake in, I stopped buying the games. An adult should be well equipped to engage in these systems if they want or to not.

I can already tell with 100% certainty I won't engage with these systems in Shadow of War. That's why it doesn't really matter in the long run.

I like AAA games. I like AAA games that feature IP I enjoy. I acknowledge that large, AAA, mainly 1P games are expensive to make. If whales need to exist to subsidize these games for them to exist in the way they currently do, so be it. No skin off my back.

thats where you and i disagree, in my opnion gambling is shady and should be considered as such, thats why a lot of goverments have regulations , i also do not agree with the whole concept of "let the whales pay for it".
you are also forgeting that they desing these systems to take advantage of people with gambling habits, which in my opnion is shady and should not be allowed.
the gaming industry should not get a free pass to milk these people because they are "whales with disposable income" .
 
I guess as long as I can still play offline it's not too bad, right? How necessary to game progression are these silly loot boxes?
 

poodaddy

Member
They lost me already at the loot boxes and this just makes it exponentially worse. Who the fuck is making these decisions?
 

m_dorian

Member
...I like AAA games. I like AAA games that feature IP I enjoy. I acknowledge that large, AAA, mainly 1P games are expensive to make. If whales need to exist to subsidize these games for them to exist in the way they currently do, so be it. No skin off my back.

So, the AAA gaming industry will end up making games solely for whales thus hurting our hobby in the long run.
Do we really need accountants to design the games we play?
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
They lost me already at the loot boxes and this just makes it exponentially worse. Who the fuck is making these decisions?

You've misunderstood the thread title. You need to have an active internet connection in order to buy a loot box, however the game isn't online-only as a result. Think of it like, say, Mankind Divided, in which you can play through the entire campaign offline but can't purchase a Praxis Point bundle without being connected to Steam/PSN/XBL.
 
So, the AAA gaming industry will end up making games solely for whales thus hurting our hobby in the long run.
Do we really need accountants to design the games we play?
How did you conclude that from my comment? How is Shadow of War designed for whales? Everything they've said seems to be the literal opposite of that fact. There is a system in the game for people who don't mind paying money for shortcuts. If a system I will never have to engage with exists, but it's existence makes these games possible for the reality that is AAA gaming in 2017 and beyond, I just simply can not bring myself to care.

If I'm getting in-game ads for this stuff or I can't progress without paying money then there actually is an issue. Nothing said or shown so far makes that seem like it will be the case.

They already were selling this kind of stuff in the previous game but I guess it wasn't headline grabby enough to warrant an outcry and it certainly had zero effect on how I was able to play the game.

This just seems like the latest disingenuous gaming pitchfork raising du jour with people making knee jerk reactions to something that really doesn't matter much unless you want to engage with it.
 

Phat 2000 Dola

Neo Member
Who the fuck here isn't online? That's right No one. Your all here posting so I'm sure everyone at least has a shitty internet connection. 0.01% of gamers don't have ANY internet. These threads needs to stop. It's 2017 for fuck sake.


Oh yeah and I bought the $5aud Forza Horizon 3 ALL MAP unlock as I don't have 500000 hours to play games anymore. Who cares, it doesn't impact anyone else.
 

Demoskinos

Member
I don't understand why this or the loot box thing is such deal breakers. They've already said in the initial announcement for the loot boxes that you can already earn stuff in them in the game.
 
Who the fuck here isn't online? That's right No one. Your all here posting so I'm sure everyone at least has a shitty internet connection. 0.01% of gamers don't have ANY internet. These threads needs to stop. It's 2017 for fuck sake.


Oh yeah and I bought the $5aud Forza Horizon 3 ALL MAP unlock as I don't have 500000 hours to play games anymore. Who cares, it doesn't impact anyone else.

Or they could have made getting the car less of a grind to begin with. .

This guy number one mark for microtransactions.
 
The online only thing was dumb, I'm glad it's not true, but I don't see the issue for MCs in general. This is a game where we know for a fact it can take hours to siege one fort, and that's optional. There seems to be over 10 forts in the game. Shortcuts for the casual base doesn't seem like a bad thing, but again, lootboxes are horrible, the worst type of MTs. I already own games with Lootboxes, but if I were to boycott any Mts it would be lootboxes.

I'll probably still buy this though. Not enough games like this.
 
Not really an excuse anymore. While I'm sorry you may not have access to the internet, but if this is a thing then it's not a matter of getting Random Game Dev/Publisher to fix it. It's a deeper issue with your location that needs resolving and that's likely above the realm of EA.

Always forward.

Edit: No longer can a lack of internet access be tolerated in the US and beyond.

Your post comes off as privileged douchery.
 

luulubuu

Junior Member
FFSSNkQ.png


edit:
Not really an excuse anymore. While I'm sorry you may not have access to the internet, but if this is a thing then it's not a matter of getting Random Game Dev/Publisher to fix it. It's a deeper issue with your location that needs resolving and that's likely above the realm of EA.

Always forward.

Edit: No longer can a lack of internet access be tolerated in the US and beyond.

Also,
locf03Z.png
 

Fracas

#fuckonami
Doesn't matter to me. If the game is good, I'll buy it. Just like every other poster on this forum, I have a serviceable internet connection so it's a non-issue. Also just like the overwhelming majority of people that would play this game.
 
Who the fuck here isn't online? That's right No one. Your all here posting so I'm sure everyone at least has a shitty internet connection. 0.01% of gamers don't have ANY internet. These threads needs to stop. It's 2017 for fuck sake.


Oh yeah and I bought the $5aud Forza Horizon 3 ALL MAP unlock as I don't have 500000 hours to play games anymore. Who cares, it doesn't impact anyone else.

And when your internet goes out? Or you're on a laptop somewhere that doesn't have wifi? C'mon, dude.
 

m_dorian

Member
How did you conclude that from my comment? How is Shadow of War designed for whales? Everything they've said seems to be the literal opposite of that fact. There is a system in the game for people who don't mind paying money for shortcuts. If a system I will never have to engage with exists, but it's existence makes these games possible for the reality that is AAA gaming in 2017 and beyond, I just simply can not bring myself to care.

If I'm getting in-game ads for this stuff or I can't progress without paying money then there actually is an issue. Nothing said or shown so far makes that seem like it will be the case.

They already were selling this kind of stuff in the previous game but I guess it wasn't headline grabby enough to warrant an outcry and it certainly had zero effect on how I was able to play the game.

This just seems like the latest disingenuous gaming pitchfork raising du jour with people making knee jerk reactions to something that really doesn't matter much unless you want to engage with it.

Implementing such a system usually affects gameplay design. Lets see the content of those loot chests though:

https://www.vg247.com/2017/08/05/mi...-bought-using-in-game-currency-or-real-money/

Here’s the rundown on the purchasable items, per Monolith:

Loot Chests: Contain Gear (weapons and armor) of varying rarity. Equipping and upgrading these weapons and armor enhance Talion’s character abilities. Loot Chests can also contain XP Boosts that help level up Talion faster.
War Chests: provide Orc followers of varying rarity to help forge a strong army. They can also contain Training Orders to level up and customize Orc followers.
XP Boosts: Consumables that help level up Talion faster.
Bundles: Packaged up Loot Chests, War Chests and Boosts together.

My supposition is that they would not be doing this if it was just a subtle feature, they will want the player to buy these boxes. They want the whales to buy those chests.

Also the system implemented in M-E:SoW is very different from that near useless Flame of Anor Rune DLC you linked.

But of course why should you care? You never use them, why bother, let the other gamers "fund" the ever costly industry.
 
I'm confident y this is a warner bros thing. If it's good I'll buy it when its 20 out below.

Hope rockateady to have enough influence to keep their next game clean.
 

Estoc

Member
acording to the devs, they designed the game progression without the market in mind, which i do not believe.

Didn't Blizzard said the same about RMAH effect on Diablo 3? However, I don't remember if it was found that it did in fact have an effect.
 

Kiro

Member
I'll be passing. I loved the first game but when you are competing against mario, Wolfenstein, evil within 2 and even assassin's creed, things like this don't cut it.
 
Implementing such a system usually affects gameplay design. Lets see the content of those loot chests though:

https://www.vg247.com/2017/08/05/mi...-bought-using-in-game-currency-or-real-money/



My supposition is that they would not be doing this if it was just a subtle feature, they will want the player to buy these boxes. They want the whales to buy those chests.

Also the system implemented in M-E:SoW is very different from that near useless Flame of Anor Rune DLC you linked.

But of course why should you care? You never use them, why bother, let the other gamers "fund" the ever costly industry.
Again, these are all shortcuts. If someone wants to shortcut their way through a game then give them the option to. It has literally no effect on me whatsoever in a 1P game. Absolutely none.

How is the DLC rune 'very different'? It's now just randomized. The one rune I linked is an enhancement earned quickly though paying real money. That's not the only one, they sold many throughout the life of that game. This time they'll just be randomized.

It seems the mere idea that someone can spend money on a game if they want to upsets you and I just don't see it as an issue at all to me actually enjoying the game in the way I want to. These systems keep the 1P AAA game engine running, like it or not.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
Who the fuck here isn't online? That's right No one. Your all here posting so I'm sure everyone at least has a shitty internet connection. 0.01% of gamers don't have ANY internet. These threads needs to stop. It's 2017 for fuck sake.

This post is embarrassingly childish, selfish, ignorant and factually incorrect.
 

Blablurn

Member
Its quite unfortunate. Especially after living in a 3rd world country, I realized how annoying always online can be.
 
If this lootbox shit somehow turns you off getting the game, then you probably weren't even interested in playing it anyway.

Not saying that the lootbox critiques aren't legit complaints. However, it always feels hollow when news of microtransactions and loot boxes are announced and people say stuff like "Well, guess I'm not buying the game now."

I'm sure this stuff is disappointing, but I can't imagine that it would stop anyone actually interested from picking the game up when it releases.
 
Didn't realize so many people were on the fence about this game. I'll do what I did with the first one. BB GC then trade after I beat it in a few weeks. Then buy the $5 goty edition.
 

Sohaim

Member
The conspiracy theories about this shit are off the charts.

it is simply my opnion, as a brazilian citizen i have learned the hard way not to trust every single thing a public figure/PR person says.

Learn what?



I don't understand how so many gamers still know absolutely nothing about how game development works.

i am sorry? can you elaborate? i cant really coment if you give such a vague statement, in my opnion, considering microtransactions are everywhere and that WB is insisting that their Devs include them in their games as a way to get extra revenue, i refuse to believe their "in-game market" and gambling boxes did not have an impact on progression, but if you have a different opnion please share.

If this lootbox shit somehow turns you off getting the game, then you probably weren't even interested in playing it anyway.

Not saying that the lootbox critiques aren't legit complaints. However, it always feels hollow when news of microtransactions and loot boxes are announced and people say stuff like "Well, guess I'm not buying the game now."

I'm sure this stuff is disappointing, but I can't imagine that it would stop anyone actually interested from picking the game up when it releases.

if i had not payed for my pre-order, i would totally wait for it be on a sale, the only way we have to really show them we do not like something is by not buying.
 
i am sorry? can you elaborate? i cant really coment if you give such a vague statement, in my opnion, considering microtransactions are everywhere and that WB is insisting that their Devs include them in their games as a way to get extra revenue, i refuse to believe their "in-game market" and gambling boxes did not have an impact on progression, but if you have a different opnion please share.

I was a developer of AAA online games, most of which included F2P models and microtransactions, for nearly a decade. The vast majority of games, outside of select mobile titles, are not designed around monetization schemas - often the monetization schema isn't decided upon until well into development, sometimes as late as the last few months before release and even changes post-launch.

Developers do not design these systems. They are often created and maintained by teams of marketing, finance, and publishing individuals who work directly for the publisher and have very little, if any, direct contact with the actual developers until the very end of development. By which time, the majority of the game's actual content has been locked in and cannot be altered without pushing milestone dates and ultimately altering the launch of the product - which is extremely costly and only happens in the most dire of circumstances (i.e. not because of a monetization schema change).

Lootboxes are often extremely easy to implement and have almost zero impact on the intended progression of the game in terms of altering development. I have never sat in a meeting with other developers and thought about how we could modify the game's natural progression to accommodate for lootboxes - this is across multiple AAA studios, with multiple different publishers, over a decade, across multiple genres, and several different monetization schemes ranging from F2P, B2P, monthly subscription models, and hybrids of everything in-between.

Monetization teams generally just request assets to be used for everything from retailer exclusives, deluxe/collector's edition extras, lootboxes, microtransaction stores, and so on. Often these assets will get additional budget - in both monetary and time resources - in order to accommodate their development outside of the main product, but not always. They do not dictate how the game is developed. They do not dictate how a progression system flows. They do not dictate how other in-game rewards systems are paid out to the player. They often don't even get to choose which assets are created, modified, or set aside for special use cases.

This is how development on these types of titles and these types of microtransactions systems happens. It really isn't an opinion. It's really frustrating to see so many developers come forward and explain how the industry works, from talking to game journalists and publishing stories to writing books about their experiences and how things are made, to developer diaries and podcasts and behind the scenes documentaries and discussions, to online/convention panels and GDC development talks... and no one seems to be listening and continue to spout their ignorant hot takes based on absolutely nothing.
 

Sohaim

Member
I was a developer of AAA online games, most of which included F2P models and microtransactions, for nearly a decade. The vast majority of games, outside of select mobile titles, are not designed around monetization schemas - often the monetization schema isn't decided upon until well into development, sometimes as late as the last few months before release and even changes post-launch.

Developers do not design these systems. They are often created and maintained by teams of marketing, finance, and publishing individuals who work directly for the publisher and have very little, if any, direct contact with the actual developers until the very end of development. By which time, the majority of the game's actual content has been locked in and cannot be altered without pushing milestone dates and ultimately altering the launch of the product - which is extremely costly and only happens in the most dire of circumstances (i.e. not because of a monetization schema change).

Lootboxes are often extremely easy to implement and have almost zero impact on the intended progression of the game in terms of altering development. I have never sat in a meeting with other developers and thought about how we could modify the game's natural progression to accommodate for lootboxes - this is across multiple AAA studios, with multiple different publishers, over a decade, across multiple genres, and several different monetization schemes ranging from F2P, B2P, monthly subscription models, and hybrids of everything in-between.

Monetization teams generally just request assets to be used for everything from retailer exclusives, deluxe/collector's edition extras, lootboxes, microtransaction stores, and so on. Often these assets will get additional budget - in both monetary and time resources - in order to accommodate their development outside of the main product, but not always. They do not dictate how the game is developed. They do not dictate how a progression system flows. They do not dictate how other in-game rewards systems are paid out to the player. They often don't even get to choose which assets are created, modified, or set aside for special use cases.

This is how development on these types of titles and these types of microtransactions systems happens. It really isn't an opinion. It's really frustrating to see so many developers come forward and explain how the industry works, from talking to game journalists and publishing stories to writing books about their experiences and how things are made, to developer diaries and podcasts and behind the scenes documentaries and discussions, to online/convention panels and GDC development talks... and no one seems to be listening and continue to spout their ignorant hot takes based on absolutely nothing.

so based on your experience, what do you think about the progression system/Cosmetics of For Honor? why do you think that the devs made it extremely hard to earn steel(considering the amout of gear/comestic unlocks) ?
and i would also like to mention people are not making up facts out of thin air, a lot of people have been playing games for some time now, and we do notice when a game gets grindy out of nowhere, but i understand your point.
 
so based on your experience, what do you think about the progression system/Cosmetics of For Honor? why do you think that the devs made it extremely hard to earn steel ?

They likely designed a progression system to last as long as possible. Because when players run out of progression in a multiplayer title they often quit. So as a designer you draw out that progression as long as possible because you never know when your next update may come and when you can extend that progression system further.

A microtransaction system was likely added after the fact and took advantage of the extended progression system.

So instead of the progression system being designed to sell loot boxes, the microtransaction system was designed to circumvent the progression system to sell loot boxes.

On your second point I think there's a very distinct and large difference between being able to identify a flaw within a system and being able to identify the cause of said flaw. Gamers are absolutely able to identify a flaw but they seem to lack the knowledge and experience to identify what caused the flaw, why there is a flaw and who is to blame for said flaw. And there's plenty of literature available that not enough people take advantage of to offset their lack of knowledge and experience and make them better able to make judgments about the game industry and how it works.
 

Sohaim

Member
They likely designed a progression system to last as long as possible. Because when players run out of progression in a multiplayer title they often quit. So as a designer you draw out that progression as long as possible because you never know when your next update may come and when you can extend that progression system further.

A microtransaction system was likely added after the fact and took advantage of the extended progression system.

So instead of the progression system being designed to sell loot boxes, the microtransaction system was designed to circumvent the progression system to sell loot boxes.

in my opnion their progression/comestic system was very bad, in my case it was one of the main things that drove me away from the game, Ubisoft did many changes to fix the issue but the grind was still too much.
 

Theorry

Member
Everything is going wrong now for this game. People were pretty hyped for the sequel and gameplay wise it looks also pretty improved. But then they went from august to october release date. A crazy month, then news about lootboxes and now online only. Damn.
 
Everything is going wrong now for this game. People were pretty hyped for the sequel and gameplay wise it looks also pretty improved. But then they went from august to october release date. A crazy month, then news about lootboxes and now online only. Damn.

It's not online only. I'm editing the title again for additional clarity.
 

gogosox82

Member
Just a miscommunication it seems then. Well that's good. Still don't like the loot boxes so probably not getting it at launch but I at least they aren't punishing people who didn't want to use the loot no es but still wanted to play it.
 
Lootboxs and "at the moment" have completely canceled any hype I had for it. Damn shame, I can't support this for this type of game.
Edit: Specifically I can't support a single player game having a chance of being always online.

I was a developer of AAA online games, most of which included F2P models and microtransactions, for nearly a decade. The vast majority of games, outside of select mobile titles, are not designed around monetization schemas - often the monetization schema isn't decided upon until well into development, sometimes as late as the last few months before release and even changes post-launch.

Developers do not design these systems. They are often created and maintained by teams of marketing, finance, and publishing individuals who work directly for the publisher and have very little, if any, direct contact with the actual developers until the very end of development. By which time, the majority of the game's actual content has been locked in and cannot be altered without pushing milestone dates and ultimately altering the launch of the product - which is extremely costly and only happens in the most dire of circumstances (i.e. not because of a monetization schema change).

Lootboxes are often extremely easy to implement and have almost zero impact on the intended progression of the game in terms of altering development. I have never sat in a meeting with other developers and thought about how we could modify the game's natural progression to accommodate for lootboxes - this is across multiple AAA studios, with multiple different publishers, over a decade, across multiple genres, and several different monetization schemes ranging from F2P, B2P, monthly subscription models, and hybrids of everything in-between.

Monetization teams generally just request assets to be used for everything from retailer exclusives, deluxe/collector's edition extras, lootboxes, microtransaction stores, and so on. Often these assets will get additional budget - in both monetary and time resources - in order to accommodate their development outside of the main product, but not always. They do not dictate how the game is developed. They do not dictate how a progression system flows. They do not dictate how other in-game rewards systems are paid out to the player. They often don't even get to choose which assets are created, modified, or set aside for special use cases.

This is how development on these types of titles and these types of microtransactions systems happens. It really isn't an opinion. It's really frustrating to see so many developers come forward and explain how the industry works, from talking to game journalists and publishing stories to writing books about their experiences and how things are made, to developer diaries and podcasts and behind the scenes documentaries and discussions, to online/convention panels and GDC development talks... and no one seems to be listening and continue to spout their ignorant hot takes based on absolutely nothing.
I actually really appreciate this feedback to the thread, and while I am not on the development side of things I've heard similar stories from deus ex and how they had to include microtransactions. Here's the problem though, as a gamer there has to be this level of trust. While I'm usually blaming the right people (publishers not dev) I've been hurt in the past. Businesses don't want me not to buy something they are selling and it's far to easy to sweeten the deal or affect gameplay mechanics around them. The worst game I remember being completely ruined by this was Dead Space 3, where the game design changed to a grinding system just to justify these extra expenses. Now I understand games cost more money to make, you have to make that money somehow. But if I see a price tag asking for more money I will hold my guard up, especially when cheaper products that ask for less exist (indie) that are visually looking better and more complex every day.
 
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