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USgamer on a rape allusion in Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2
- Thread starter Tenrius
- Start date
If you're writing criticism rather than "Alien Shooter XIV's graphics are an 82, but Russian Shooter: Eternal Freedom GotY's graphics are an 84" then by definition your role is to contribute to the medium's picture of itself in hopes of refining future works. And in large part, the best criticism is written from heretical perspectives that make people really uncomfortable - comfortable criticism tends to be backpatting by people who already agree. Doesn't necessarily have to be taken as a new gospel, but the realization that a previously unheard audience segment thinks that way is enlightening whether it gets the scene cut or whether Cox goes "huh, I never realized that, we can rip her bodice and make it even MORE disturbing!".
This is 100% fair, and it's honestly where my gut instinct lies. But it's also why I'm enjoying taking the piss out of the guys in this thread going "how dare someone try to shut down someone else's creative output! this writer should never be allowed to say that, and I'm boycotting USgamer now!". ;P
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Even if the scene had intentional rape overtones, I wouldn't support the idea of censoring it. Its an M rated game for adults, if movies and books intended for adults can feature depictions of sexual assault, then why can't a video game do the same? If anybody felt encouraged to rape because of a video game then they were already morally unstable.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Didn't that game sell above expectations? Which maybe partly had something to do with the exposition it got.
lol bravo sir
It seems either she didn't see the whole scene or someone is being untruthful.
https://twitter.com/CastlevaniaLOS/status/422840586773995520
I think he's trying to very diplomatically say that she saw things in the scene differently than how they really happened.
I guess we'll see when it releases.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
Okay, somebody has been taking Twilight and other vamp-porn too seriously.
This is where I draw the line to fake controversy.
This is where I draw the line to fake controversy.
Murder is narratively justifiable in ways that rape isn't.
If you can't separate reality from fiction, you have bigger problems that a game. An M one.
anexanhume
Member
I was actually kinda already told that by another journo:
https://twitter.com/afillari/status/422825944143769600
Except when it finally released, no one gave a damn.
Whether or not he kills the entire family shouldn't matter. The scene with Gabriel forcefully sucking the blood from a struggling woman probably is heavily sexualized regardless of what happens next or what happened before. The point is that even if that is the case, developers should be free to express their ideas (unless it's outright illegal stuff, of course). And gaming "journalists" should refrain from calling for censorship just because they feel offended.
I'm still quite angry at Kotaku. Calling the artist a child? That's just disrespectful and rude.
But critisism and literary analysis takes the work as it is presented and comments on it. It is not and should not be a vehicle for censorship.
AuthenticM
Member
Thank God.
Wow, so seems like she really missed all that stuff or falsely interpreted it. That's the only way it would make sense to me because I doubt that she would be deliberately lying about something that could so easily be checked.It seems either she didn't see the whole scene or someone is being untruthful.
https://twitter.com/CastlevaniaLOS/status/422840586773995520
SolidSnakex
Member
Over 800k. Which is crazy for a retail 2D beat 'em up in 2013.
The game got to speak for itself then, and it seems like most people stopped caring about the art because the game itself was fun.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I got the impression that it sounds like a rather generic vampire scene.
Is this sarcasm? I honestly can't tell
Before we know it, the game becomes a bizzaro dating sim, with kawaii girls and daily activity points. There is only one true ending, where Dracula actually gets to drink blood, and all others are all about him being lonely, heartbroken and very, very hungry.
I was just saying that Dracula feeds on men and women alike. My underlying point is that despite the obvious sexualization that goes with vampire tales, it is not meant to be perceived as sexual rape, nor does it imply it. Is it a violation? You bet, but all it is meant to be seen as is a monster that feeds on the blood on the living in order to sustain it's immortality.
At the end of the day, the sexual tones can be analyzed and compared to rape in terms of being a violation until the cows come home. But outright sexual rape is never what is being implied in such scenes. Nor should it be seen as such and then be deemed as being too controversial. It's a vampire being a monster and feeding. The only thing being violated is someone's life, be it a man or woman.
Thankfully this is about as much a rape scene as a xenomorph in Alien. There are similarities and obvious parables, but nobody should be using that as a base to argue that they should be removed. Especially in a product for adults where you're playing fucking Dracula.
CambriaRising
Member
A whole other issues really, but it would be nice if behind closed doors previews stopped happening. At least in this case we would be able to judge for ourselves.
It seems either she didn't see the whole scene or someone is being untruthful.
https://twitter.com/CastlevaniaLOS/status/422840586773995520
Thank God nothing will be changed. I'm dying to play this game!!
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Ridiculous. The way the event is described doesn't sound like anything that would make me think "rape!", but rather "vampire doing what vampires do", with the way it's presented clearly being meant to make you feel that what the character (you) is doing is pretty evil and shitty. For "rape!" to be the first thing you think when seeing this (seemingly) very typical vampire scenario play out I think you have to be really looking hard to find anything at which to throw that accusation.
And even if it was a rape scene, so what? It's not a scene that's meant to be positive (from what I can tell), but rather one meant to show what an evil thing the character has become. So why is it not OK for him to do evil things? Movies show people doing things like this all the time, but when it's a game it's not OK?
And even if it was a rape scene, so what? It's not a scene that's meant to be positive (from what I can tell), but rather one meant to show what an evil thing the character has become. So why is it not OK for him to do evil things? Movies show people doing things like this all the time, but when it's a game it's not OK?
Either "The work would be better without this segment/if this segment was handled differently" is censorship, or "I hope this isn't in the final game" isn't. They're exactly the same thing, except one is said before release - and even if you want to argue that saying it during early access in particular is abuse of that position, surely the same would apply to criticism of theatre that can lead to elements being cut from future performance, or film that can be applied to reworked director's cuts?
brandonh83
Banned
It's even worse in Alien. You see the alien's tail creep up between Lambert's legs. It's more than a little deliberate. But this is a stupid action videogame so it has no right!
Can we recognize at least that there's a difference between criticizing a scene because it seemed like an unsuccessful attempt at emotionally manipulative writing, and criticizing a scene because it has "no-no" topics? Her title and writing focus gave the impression of the latter (a failure because of the element they chose), but with her clarifications, it does sound a bit more like criticism of the particular execution.
michaelius
Banned
Was it worse than feeding in opera scene from Interview with Vampire ?
Seriously some people behave like every game should be 2d platformer
Seriously some people behave like every game should be 2d platformer
anexanhume
Member
Yeah, it is odd. Seems what likely happened is that dracula kills the husband and then goes for her. After she's done, he goes after the husband and then finally the child. She focused on the killing of the husband and then the turn to the woman because that was sexually charged and the rest seemed like an afterthought. Still, it should have been indicated in the reporting. She clarified on twitter that she only saw the woman. So I'm not sure what to think.
I am a bit disappointed that a scene like this was spoiled for us. It's going to take any potential impact it might have had away.
Yeah lost in all of this mass murderer versus rapist comparisons is the fact that this isn't even rape, it's a figuration of what could maybe potentially be seen as symbolic of rape and yet seemingly wasn't considered such other games about vampires. But the murder in the other games is straight shoot them dead.
I'm not talking about this scene in particular, I'm talking about (part of) why depicting rape, in general, is seen as more objectionable than murder.
spacemonkeynation
Member
Bram Stokers original story had scenes of rape so even if this was alluding to rape (it's not) it wouldn't be out if place at all! Guess what? Dracula is not a very nice guy.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Critism and censorship aren't the same thing. One is said with the purpose of altering the game the other is simply stating an opinion (which the developer can chose to take heed or ignore in future works).
I have an idea, make note of her name and avoid taking anything else she writes seriously.
I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt and say it is the first, but I have a sinking feeling that it was the second to generate a narrative and clicks.
It has all the realtion, you can feed on any human character in the game. And you're Dracula FFS.
SolidSnakex
Member
Yeah, it seems like Konami could pt this whole thing to rest if they released a video of the scene and it played out like most other journalists are suggesting (where Dracula just just devouring the entire family).
Principate
Saint Titanfall
We could have ignored it by not reading the previews but hey we gotta alter the game right.
Delusibeta
Banned
I'm more pissed off at said journo coming in here and calling people who disagree with him lolicons.
Yep. And even if that were all true, I still still don't feel that is an excuse for someone to say they want this content removed from the game.
I don't understand why gaming has gotten to the point where asking parts of a game to be removed on the basis of vulgarity and value-based judgements is not treated in the same way that film connoisseurs look back on Hollywood's PCA or the attempts made by concerned parents to make objectionable rock and rap music commercially inviable.
If you respect art, you are free to criticize it all you want. If video games are art, you should be able to say want you want about how these games make you feel. What I don't believe should be the norm in gaming journalism is an acceptance of calls for directorial censorship through direct commands or calls for protest.
You can do that if you wish. I just believe that games shouldn't be held back on what subjects that should approach or what messages they wish to deliver, because games made the press or individual protest groups "uncomfortable." Most people would be uncomfortable supporting similar claims in the arena of film, books, or even television.
With games, the majority still feel games should only be self-esteem enhancing, translations of ourselves on screen. There is not always a positive to take away from a situation like war or other heinous situations video games enjoy glorifying. There is room for games that make you sad, repulsed, and even uncomfortable. Not everything a character does must be clean and fit within who you see yourself as a person.
I'm sorry for rambling on about this, I just think it's scary that asking for something to be removed from a game is even on the table as a response to a work of art that makes you uncomfortable. I would expect that from outside political groups before I would expect it from people who cover games for a living. People that care about the artistry found in entertainment content.
anexanhume
Member
Or give her the benefit of the doubt until the game comes out and all is clear?