I honestly never understood why they felt the need to change their system. It worked fucking fine for a while.
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Valve cut artist's Dota Workshop revenue from 25% to 6% over the last year
- Thread starter sanstesy
- Start date
I honestly never understood why they felt the need to change their system. It worked fucking fine for a while.
spindoctor
Member
It's interesting to read the artists' point of view on how things have changed. I never considered just how much artists depend on those Major chests for their sets to get into the game. And how few sets are getting into the game outside those chests.
It's definitely not a good move by Valve to stop paying artists a cut of the battle pass sales. The items in the battle pass are quite obviously the biggest incentive to buy them.
I hope Valve reads that reddit post and reconsiders their stance. They have to understand the benefit of keeping their artists happy and just how much value they contribute to the popularity of Dota 2.
It's definitely not a good move by Valve to stop paying artists a cut of the battle pass sales. The items in the battle pass are quite obviously the biggest incentive to buy them.
I hope Valve reads that reddit post and reconsiders their stance. They have to understand the benefit of keeping their artists happy and just how much value they contribute to the popularity of Dota 2.
It just seems so short sighted. Like, it might work for one Battle Pass or two while they still have a backlog of items to go through but as time goes on and people drop out out of the system to work on other more lucrative projects it's going to mean less sales in the long run.
I made some tweets about this re: TF2 https://twitter.com/donhonk/status/847220661928046592
tf2 is too small for anyone to care but im glad its being talked about now that they are screwing dota2 too
tf2 is too small for anyone to care but im glad its being talked about now that they are screwing dota2 too
I stopped buying hats because
a) Don't care for 99% of the stuff that comes out, outside of a few EXTRA RARE items
b) Don't want to gamble for the EXTRA RARE items
My purchases are pretty much limited to Battle Passes/Majors now days. Wish Volvo would go back in the game and take a bunch of items out that kinda break the look and feel of certain champions but I know they wont. Sucks for the artists out of $$$ tho
a) Don't care for 99% of the stuff that comes out, outside of a few EXTRA RARE items
b) Don't want to gamble for the EXTRA RARE items
My purchases are pretty much limited to Battle Passes/Majors now days. Wish Volvo would go back in the game and take a bunch of items out that kinda break the look and feel of certain champions but I know they wont. Sucks for the artists out of $$$ tho
It's like when you get terrible service at a restaurant, you give a pittance as a tip instead of zero, cause at 0 they just think you're a jerk that doesn't tip, at a pittance you are telling them their service was shit.
6% is like a slap in the face of the creators.
Dreams-Visions
Member
tbqh, a lot of decisions Valve has made related to the cosmetic economies of their games has felt short sighted.
The actual item market trade market is dead because of short-sighted economy decisions.
fluffydelusions
Member
Yup
Jawmuncher
Member
Fuck outta here valve. Like you don't got enough money.
Now people can understand why so many were up and arms agaisnt "paying" for mods. Since at the end of the day, it was going to get so skewed that the creators wouldn't get much of anything compared to valve and the publisher cuts.
Now people can understand why so many were up and arms agaisnt "paying" for mods. Since at the end of the day, it was going to get so skewed that the creators wouldn't get much of anything compared to valve and the publisher cuts.
It just sucks when you know if you started doing it 2 years earlier, you would have been paid more than double.
I wonder if Gabe got that rich man hoarding bug. He doesn't really need the money but just loves seeing it go up more than anything else.
I know Microsoft are greedy bastards too but if there was ever a time to get into user created content, modding for their games, soon would be a good time. Pigs will fly but with all the stuff Microsoft has, why not.
I know Microsoft are greedy bastards too but if there was ever a time to get into user created content, modding for their games, soon would be a good time. Pigs will fly but with all the stuff Microsoft has, why not.
Valve wants money and made a profit deal to convince artists to make content on their platform. They shouldn't negotiate? Are you as dumb as a Trump voter?
I admit I'm now ashamed that I used to look up to him when I was a kid. Used to think he was creating something different to break away from a hegemonic video game culture. Now I find out he's just making another one of his own.
So it goes.
Evolution of Metal
Member
They have so many submissions that it just boiled down to the supply and demand. If artists submit 10x amount the items that you intend to sell, then they can get away with a drastically lower cut for those artists because, at the end of the day, there will be enough artists left to create items.
It is a pure greed. Getting 75/25 of the revenue was a god-tier as far as third-party generated content goes. Even the largest content websites like Turbosquid will offer you something like a 50% cut if you agree to their terms fully.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Classic valve. Their poor communication is is their trademark. Or perhaps their scarlet letter.
I know they've mostly switched over from selling cosmetics in the store (with 25% of revenue) to key events (which divides 12.5% of the revenue between the cosmetic creators). It's unfortunate to hear that that brings the revenue down so much, I had always wondered about how the revenue has changed but people have mostly been tight lipped about it.
It's even worse than it sounds on the tin. They get high quality items by the truckload without having to pay a cent of salary or wages, just a pathetic percentage of a small subset of future sales. Might as well go public and invest in blood diamonds and shit at this rate.
Heres the real kicker. They stop selling keys for "limited" crates after a while. So you dont even get sustained 12.5 percent cut after they get rid of the keys. You dont get anything but a poor lump sum.
If the same item was added before the new system you'd easily make 8 or more times the money.
I doubt this turbosquid is close to Bethesda when they flirted with the idea for 1 month let alone Valve who is clearly a vastly bigger company.
You are right it's all about greed. Valve's economists pretty much calculated how much they can shrink their creative partner shares because of how much Valve has an outsized presence to give these artists the opportunity to make money in such a manner.
This honestly sounds like Valve is so big they could be a valid target for anti-trust laws since they are an American business.
The Dear Leader
Banned
That's ridiculous if true, I hope it comes back and bites Valve on the ass financially, they don't have the man power to pump out the amount of content the community was making for their games.
I don't think they ever stop selling the keys for the crates in the mann co store (I just checked and everything from Invasion to End of the Line to the 2013 fall crates are still on the store) but I know they make crates a rare drop after awhile so it's extremely rare to find them so I'm not surprised sales eventually drop off a cliff.
You should make a post about it on the TF2 subreddit, we do know for a fact that the TF2 team reads that quite a bit (and at least one member of the team occasionally posts there). If Valve gets pressure on this issue from multiple fronts they may actually make some changes.
Mm, thats true I might have to go post.
But this is a limited crate I have an item in that I no longer see revenue for: https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Limited_Late_Summer_Pack
The existing uncrated items continue to be bought and sold on Steam Market with no cut to us.
Valve can't lose here and they know it. The number of people directly affected is just too small for this ever to amount to something bigger.
The Dear Leader
Banned
But wouldn't the lack of financial incentive for hat makers mean less stuff is being made leading to less sales of cases and items?
They have a GIGANTIC backlog of content. I suspect they could sustain the game with the existing items for the next 5 years. People in China are going to continue making items too.
Well to be fair that crate did say it would be limited. I think that crate came out in the early days of event crates and Valve was trying to experiment with what would increase sales so they tried a limited crate.
But yeah I agree that the issue is problematic. I'm not sure why Valve doesn't share 25% of key sales with item creators instead of the current 12.5%.
One thing I would also like to see is a 1% "item creators fee" for any cosmetic items sold on the Steam community market that goes directly to the item maker.
Yea - as good as Dota is in terms of gameplay and gameplay-related features, Valve's been doing a poorer and poorer job handling its other aspects.
Programmable bots? Believe they've been pretty much abandoned.
Tutorial? Same story.
Guides? I believe they take awhile after patches to get updated/fixed.
Website? Doesn't have talents, the biggest gameplay addition to Dota since... Idk. Since I've been playing, and that's 2010/11.
Custom games? Lol.
Cosmetics? Most of them are Valve-made (it seems like, though I could be wrong) and only come from Compendium's nowadays. Furthermore, the ones in the compendiums all have excessive particles and break the original rules that Valve gave community artists to follow (color schemes, silhouettes, etc.). The ones that aren't made by Valve but are released are pretty awful - see the DAC Compendium (Whoa, another compendium?) and its boring sets.
Other examples of cosmetics that get the shoe-in over more deserving ones are the shitty holiday ones. Valve spends time trying to get Chinese money by doing New Year's events, but the original events that showed alternative game modes and the possibilities of custom games like Diretide/Frostivus are omitted, ignored, or barely acknowledged with a hat on Roshan, a mob that is less worth taking than ever.
Finally, Valve's economy has been in the shitter. Any items you get from games can't be sold, you can RARELY buy an item directly from Valve's store unless it's an arcana. They took away level up gifts/items. Again, pretty much all new items flow from Compendiums. Can't remember the last time we got wards from a non-Compendium chest.
I don't play as much as I used to, so please correct me if I'm wrong on any of these points, but Valve barely seems to put any effort into the non-gameplay side of the game anymore.
Fuck this revenue cut, it's completely shitty and seems to be reflective of Valve's feelings on the game lately.
Programmable bots? Believe they've been pretty much abandoned.
Tutorial? Same story.
Guides? I believe they take awhile after patches to get updated/fixed.
Website? Doesn't have talents, the biggest gameplay addition to Dota since... Idk. Since I've been playing, and that's 2010/11.
Custom games? Lol.
Cosmetics? Most of them are Valve-made (it seems like, though I could be wrong) and only come from Compendium's nowadays. Furthermore, the ones in the compendiums all have excessive particles and break the original rules that Valve gave community artists to follow (color schemes, silhouettes, etc.). The ones that aren't made by Valve but are released are pretty awful - see the DAC Compendium (Whoa, another compendium?) and its boring sets.
Other examples of cosmetics that get the shoe-in over more deserving ones are the shitty holiday ones. Valve spends time trying to get Chinese money by doing New Year's events, but the original events that showed alternative game modes and the possibilities of custom games like Diretide/Frostivus are omitted, ignored, or barely acknowledged with a hat on Roshan, a mob that is less worth taking than ever.
Finally, Valve's economy has been in the shitter. Any items you get from games can't be sold, you can RARELY buy an item directly from Valve's store unless it's an arcana. They took away level up gifts/items. Again, pretty much all new items flow from Compendiums. Can't remember the last time we got wards from a non-Compendium chest.
I don't play as much as I used to, so please correct me if I'm wrong on any of these points, but Valve barely seems to put any effort into the non-gameplay side of the game anymore.
Fuck this revenue cut, it's completely shitty and seems to be reflective of Valve's feelings on the game lately.
12.5 percent? HAH. We wish.
That's interesting I always though Valve paid out 12.5% for event keys. I wonder if it can vary for different keys/events.
6% is 6%. There will still be enough skins made even if the quality is lower nevermind the fact that they get a 94% cut instead of a 75% one for free work done by the community.
Valve won't be hurting I promise!
The Dear Leader
Banned
Yeah you're right, didn't think of that.
Valve gonna make their money regardless, sure won't lead to any growth in the hat making scene I would imagine.
newtypepilot
Member
as if Valve isn't making enough money from trading cards and csgo skins
complete greed.
complete greed.
I went ahead and made a post: https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/62afnv/a_response_to_dota2s_workshop_situation/
Its probably a bit heated, but hey! I dont say anything I dont honestly feel.
I upvoted you. Hopefully your post gets some traction on the TF2 subreddit. The more visibility on the issue the more likely Valve is to change it.
Thanks man! As far as I know, upvotes from direct links either dont count or count as a downvote? I think? Reddit is weird haha. But still I appreciate it.
By the way, me and our team made http://frontline.tf/ which we think is the best work we've all ever made. No response from Valve lol.
ProfessorLobo
Banned
Wait it was 25% BEFORE? Got dang that's low.
LukasTaves
Member
This sounds really bad if I'm understanding it correctly. I know it's their platform and their game, but this sounds borderline an abuse of the community.
But I wouldn't say "even Ms does this", Xbox level of interaction with the community seems very unique, gaming industry or otherwise.
Poor Major doesn't deserve this lol.
But I wouldn't say "even Ms does this", Xbox level of interaction with the community seems very unique, gaming industry or otherwise.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
The hell would they even risk something like this for?
Valve used to sell TF2 comsetic items in the in game store where they paid out 25% of the revenue earned to the item creator. Now nearly all items are in crates and the item creators get a percentage of the key sales for the crates (which I had always heard was 12.5% split among the item creators, though dhonk says it can go as low as 7%).
It looks like it's already on the front page of the TF2 subreddit which is good.
I would be shocked if Frontline doesn't make it into TF2 at some point, but after what happened with Invasion I can't really blame Valve for not wanting community managed projects anymore.
I would be willing to bet that after the Jungle update comes out they announce a war themed/frontline themed update next. The theme is way too popular with the community for Valve to ignore.
Unknown One
Member
It was transparent as fuck when they wanted to monetize mods for other games. Valve is not modders friends. They want to make money off them and give them pennies.
Good lord I'd love to talk about Invasion someday. What a disaster, mostly caused by 3 big egos.
CountAntonius
Member
These people have made valve a lot of money. Shame to see this happening.
Going by my data, I've made them roughly 500,000-600,000 dollars.
The big DOTA makers? Easily millions. Like seriously.