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[Twookie]

ffs valve

I hope they reconsider, because that shit ain't right

 

[nubbe]

80% for the artist should be the minimum

 

[Darkstorne]

It's #1 on Dota's subreddit and Valve uses that subreddit as a metric for how much people give a shit. Also people are eventually going to care when the quality (or quantity) of items drop. Hopefully the former will do the job

That's the main issue imo. I genuinely believe 25% is about fair - Valve are the guys maintaining the store, the ease of access for artists, and continually growing their playerbase. I sell digital art on a store that does a very similar thing - 25% cut for me on all sales, but they manage the store, sort out the orders, the printing, the shipping etc. My involvement ends once I've uploaded the art, yet I still earn money going forwards.

6% though? No way I'd bother with a cut that low, and all this will lead to is a complete drop in both quality and quantity of items on offer. Valve might be getting a bigger cut, but they aren't going to be making any money if they put their amazing community off working with them altogether.

 

[Keasar]

Gabe, dude, this guy is supposed to be a warning, not an inspiration.

 

[AmFreak]

80% for the artist should be the minimum

You don't even get 80% of your own game or your own dlc for that.

 

[Bluth54]

80% for the artist should be the minimum

Sorry but 80% would be way too high (and I imagine pretty much all item contributors would agree).
Items sold in game are the only way Valve makes money in TF2 and DOTA2 (CSGO is sold for $15 but has similar mechanics). Valve has to pay for their development teams (TF2 has 16 people working on it, DOTA2 and CSGO have more), plus they run massive server networks for their games for matchmaking.

The 25% Valve used to offer for items sold directly in the TF2 Mann Co store is pretty fair. I think most people would even be happy with 20%.

 

[stan423321]

80% for the artist should be the minimum

As mentioned, Valve gives you 70% for your very own game on Steam. And that ignores sales tax cut.

Honestly working within established IP is very helpful and it is understandable that Valve wants more than that in games which are F2P right now, though 12.5% sounds excessive. The bad part is the business model of randomness and tiers, since apparently most profits shifted to a purchase that got suddenly made a Valve only thing.

 

[FieryBalrog]

Hey guys they pretty much did this to Team Fortress 2 too. But no one really dared to speak up. Its been about 2 years of this shit for TF2. It has pretty much made me quit making TF2 items, its no longer sustainable.

source: I have 30+ self mades in Team Fortress 2

Valve's treatment of TF2 in general has been shameful.

Like... there are a whopping 9 classes Valve has to take care of. The Pyro is still broken, 10 years after release.

 

[G.ZZZ]

Stop complaining and work harder, the rich need their money and fuck you

 

[Dirtyshubb]

Going by my data, I've made them roughly 500,000-600,000 dollars.

The big DOTA makers? Easily millions. Like seriously.

This shows exactly the disgusting type of mentality that modern corporations hold - it is never enough!

You have one individual making them over half a million in profit and other individuals making them millions all for basically nothing and yet they still need to squeeze that little extra out of you that they can.

I appreciate that you are running a business but when you have a successful model that works long term you fucking stick to it, not keep meddling and tweaking to get everything you can.

This idea that profits and success can continue to go up forever is ridiculous and maybe some businesses need to just be happy making the billions in profit that they already are instead of chasing ever cent possible regardless of how it hurts the people who actually gets them their fucking profits in the first place.

 

[ashecitism]

Would it be hard to ask for a Valve news that's fun and exciting? Feel like that hasn't happened for years.

 

[Trojita]

When the sales data became available to us for the Fall 2016 Major (note: it only becomes available once every single item that’s part of the global revenue pool has been added to the game, that is to say, once the last chest is released), most Workshop artists became suspicious of the much lower than expected numbers, and on close inspection, it became clear that, unlike before, we had not been compensated in any way for the Battle Pass sales, even though they were a very significant part to the total amount paid out to Workshop artists.

At first, some of us thought this was a mistake that would later be remedied. When contacted, the Dota 2 team quickly made it very clear that this was intentional, but declined to answer any questions or concerns. They have continued to ignore us since.

However, we were absolutely and undeniably a part of the Battle Pass! Not only people needed to buy the Pass before they were allowed to purchase
its treasures, but our contributions were prominently featured

inside of it.

And of course, don’t forget that the treasures, where the bulk of the artists’ work is present, were given out as rewards

when players level up their Battle Pass. By level 60, owners of the Battle Pass had no less than 17 treasure drops, in addition to 5 community-made courier/ward drops.

We feel that the Battle Pass relies heavily on our work and that it makes little sense for artists that have contributed all its cosmetic items to not see a cent of it anymore.

And with the Pass not contributing to the revenue pool being paid to contributors, this effectively means that the artists who created any items that were only available in the Pass (anything not in chests) have been paid by further diluting other artists’ revenue.

While it’s hard to estimate the exact amount of money that we are losing out on, we can tell you that the Battle Pass sales contributed to roughly half of the revenue pool paid out to artists. It removed more than half of the available income from the Major and gave it to Valve, on top of the half Valve already claims for the sake of funding the Major. Without exaggeration, we went from a 25% revenue share to roughly 6% over the course of a single year.

The same issues continued through the Winter 2017 Battle Pass with even worse results. Not only does this Pass only have three treasure chests instead of four, but the sales for these three chests are significantly lower than last year. For example, even if you got 3 times as many items in the Winter 2017 major compared to Winter 2016, you'd only be getting half the money. This means things are effectively 6 times worse as before, and to say this hurts the viability of the Workshop for artists would be a massive understatement.

This is information that we wish to put out there not only for the members of this community, but also other artists who have not been in the know about what has been happening, or who have considered joining the Workshop because they heard lots of great things about it.

What the post says is that, if you were an artist that got one item accepted in Winter 2016, and got, let's say, $322 USD, you need between 5 and 6 items accepted in Winter 2017 to get $322 again. It's not "some" artists in the sense that, for the current Battle Pass, it's everyone, since the revenue pool is shared among all artists.

FFS, get your shit together valve.

 

[MaxOfS2D]

It's interesting to read the artists' point of view on how things have changed. I never considered just how much artists depend on those Major chests for their sets to get into the game. And how few sets are getting into the game outside those chests.

It's definitely not a good move by Valve to stop paying artists a cut of the battle pass sales. The items in the battle pass are quite obviously the biggest incentive to buy them.

I hope Valve reads that reddit post and reconsiders their stance. They have to understand the benefit of keeping their artists happy and just how much value they contribute to the popularity of Dota 2.

Since the last International, there has been only one chest that was not related to a tournament and that gave 25% of its profits to its contributors; the Warhammer chest.

 

[ramparter]

25% was already pathetic and exploitative. The self-described dream studio isn't even trying anymore to aspire for something greater than vulture capitalism. Fuck Valve.

I'd say 25% was good many things considered. But 6%??? That's insulting.

 

[I H8 Memes]

Would it be hard to ask for a Valve news that's fun and exciting? Feel like that hasn't happened for years.

Just thinking this the other day. Wouldnt be surprised to see the company go public any day now.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

They technically aren't, that's correct.

That doesn't make what they are doing any less fucked up on a moral level.

*ethical. I'm not even sure if a business is capable of morality.

But you are both correct. Valve can do as it pleases as a business, but it's shady that there is a REDUCTION in revenue.

 

[Easy_D]

Valve is not obligated to allow you to make money with or on their platform. Same thing for YouTube.

On the flip-side, content creators aren't obligated to supply their platforms with content.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

On the flip-side, content creators aren't obligated to supply their platforms with content.

The whole reason the system was created was because it represented a win-win-win for all parties.

Nobody is obligated to do anything, but the opportunity was good for everyone.

 

[Drazgul]

They think modders weren't getting paid their fair share, but then they go and do this?!

It was never about the modders, they just saw another potential source of revenue without having to do anything themselves.

Fuck Valve, they suck.

 

[Easy_D]

The whole reason the system was created was because it represented a win-win-win for all parties.

Nobody is obligated to do anything, but the opportunity was good for everyone.

That was the point I was trying to make lol, if artists get scraps for their work, why should they bother?

 

[Ban Puncher]

I remember when mods were free and made by passionate fans who were at best openly endorsed by developers and at worst given a sly wink and a nod.


Now everyone wants to get paid.


I never paid for no Doom WAD.

 

[MaxOfS2D]

That was the point I was trying to make lol, if artists get scraps for their work, why should they bother?

Well, it wasn't like that until fairly recently, which is why artists have banded together in the (last ditch) hope that Valve may finally listen to them.

 

[Mandoric]

I remember when mods were free and made by passionate fans who were at best openly endorsed by developers and at worst given a sly wink and a nod.


Now everyone wants to get paid.


I never paid for no Doom WAD.

Never? Not even for Hexen or Heretic?

 

[Trojita]

Valve is not obligated to allow you to make money with or on their platform. Same thing for YouTube.

Valve makes platform that excites creators even if the fraction of compensation is a collective 25%.

Valve comes up with subscription passes using contributing artists creations in their advertisements and as the incentives to pay for the passes.

Contributing Artists get their check in the mail. Notice the numbers aren't working out and that they are getting paid a fraction of a fraction of what they should have gotten. Valve replies that revenue from battle passes, which use the contributing artists creations to advertise and sell the product and has a direct negative correlation with the other revenue stream (players buying treasure separately), won't be shared with these contributing artists. Valve's response is that things are working as expected.

This is fucked up and basically the rug being pulled out from under the content creators.

 

[afternoon delight]

Just thinking this the other day. Wouldnt be surprised to see the company go public any day now.

Reading this made my heart skip, thx

 

[Glass Shark]

Dota 2 is an incredible game, maybe the best game ever made, but the way Valve continually bungles nearly every aspect of what goes on around the game is actually baffling.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Frankly, 25% already sounds rather greedy on Valve's part. 12.5% for chests and 0% from passes is straight up a scam. Hopefully this thread will increase visibility and force them to explain themselves or change things.

 

[Bluth54]

Valve's treatment of TF2 in general has been shameful.

Like... there are a whopping 9 classes Valve has to take care of. The Pyro is still broken, 10 years after release.

Well the next big update is a Pyro focused update, hopefully they fix some major things like how the flame particles work.

 

[Dusk Golem]

I think Valve should really rethink their stance on this, this basically is robbery at this point.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Valve is not obligated to allow you to make money with or on their platform. Same thing for YouTube.

Are you a lawyer that can enlighten us on the legality of selling other people's work and keeping all the money? Or is this just a bog-standard corporate apologist shitpost?

 

[Conciliator]

what does valve do with all this money? is it all VR R&D?

 

[Easy_D]

what does valve do with all this money? is it all VR R&D?

Gabe has taken a liking to collecting knives made out of ruby and sapphire

 

[DesuNe]

It's a darn shame because intially it was viable for full time work. Now I expect people will struggle to find time to do it in lieu of their day jobs.

 

[Dipper145]

Wonder how long it will be before the 70/30 split for sales of video games on steam, (particularly for indie developers) will get modified?

I've got to start supporting other online game distribution methods more often.

 

[Bolivar687]

To be clear, this is different than the Skyrim situation, which introduced monetization to an existing community of a game where, once you buy it, the developer generally lets you do anything you want to it. Dota the game is inseparable from its online platform, the community has to work in tandem with Valve and vice versa to make this work.

I honestly believe the Dota 2 workshop is the single most successful user generated content initiative in gaming. The success of the community is tied to a lot of moving parts, near the top of the list are the community creators. I think Valve made a huge mistake with its recent approach with the creators and it puts the future viability of the game as a competitive juggernaut in jeopardy.

 

[Grewitch]

Valve is a soulless corporation, not a golden goose, it was inevitable that they were going to shiv the community when they weren't expecting it. If you shame them enough to change, they'll only wait to do it again, and make sure the community is dead the next time. Call it quits, put your endeavours to something deserving of you talents and time.

 

[Pantaghana]

From what I've heard, 25% is the industry standard for these types of deals, but reducing it down to 6% just like that?

Holy shit Valve.

 

[Draft]

Time for Blizzard to add a workshop to their client.

 

[dave is ok]

Time for Blizzard to add a workshop to their client.

Will never happen

 

[bluecapsule]

Remember when Valve was the darling of the gaming industry and they could do no wrong? Harvey Dent was right. You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself a villain.

I hope GOG Galaxy really takes off so Valve has less of a monopoly.

 

[aeolist]

this is just gross, especially since valve is making utterly ridiculous profits from the game and since CS:GO is doing far better things for its artist community

 

[TemplaerDude]

I'd say that's pretty evil.

 

[aeolist]

I remember when mods were free and made by passionate fans who were at best openly endorsed by developers and at worst given a sly wink and a nod.


Now everyone wants to get paid.


I never paid for no Doom WAD.

doom modding started as a free fan-driven effort.

dota 2 workshop items from the start were intended as a profit-sharing system. they built the entire artist community on that 25% split, and now they're taking it away.

people want to get paid because you need money to live. it's not hard to understand.

 

[Nzyme32]

From what I've heard, 25% is the industry standard for these types of deals, but reducing it down to 6% just like that?

Holy shit Valve.

From what you've heard? As far as I knew, Valve kicked off that 25% for ugc. The fact they are going back on that when it is more important than ever (arguably) is a damning look at how they've fallen as far as looking out for their communities goes.

 

[Lucumo]

Pretty ironic, this coming from a company who got big because of user-created content.

 

[Linkark07]

This is disappointing to say the least. I always thought the original deal of 30% cut to the creator and 70% to Valve was fine. Each day Valve is becoming more greedy.

You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

 

[FieryBalrog]

Well the next big update is a Pyro focused update, hopefully they fix some major things like how the flame particles work.

Matchmaking still sucks 1 year after release, I've sort of given up any hope of Valve actually sticking to a timeline.

If this was Dota 2 we would have working matchmaking three years ago. Also Icefrog actually knows how to balance a game, but the TF2 team just makes meme items for years.

 

[Easton Dark]

Valve is worse literally every day. What the fuck do they do every day that they need to take even more from the people that make money for them? They look like the hugest assholes and they aren't even going to attempt to comment about it.

 

[kiguel182]

Man, that sucks for creators. 6 per cent for something the creator made all by themselves is really low.

 

[dhonk]

Man, that sucks for creators. 6 per cent for something the creator made all by themselves is really low.

Also consider the fact that most items are made by 2 or more people. So its effectively split even further. These things take time and effort.