Fuz
Banned
Yeah, turn around, choke on the wire then come back and ask again. And no, I don't want to make a hole in my ceiling just to use the VR.
Good controls we don't have. At all.
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VR Is Stalling For No Reason
- Thread starter Grimmrobe
- Start date
Good controls we don't have. At all.
Makariel
Member
Ehrm, no? At least I have yet to meet anyone who managed to strangle themselves in VR. Also, for room-scale VR there are already wireless solutions. Just cost more.
We have. I'm controlling my VR stuff just fine, they are the same as for anything else. My racing in VR I'm doing with exactly the same wheel I use when I'm using my triple screens sans VR. The wheel does not magically get worse just because I put on a VR headset.
Yes VR at the moment is not perfect, but nothing is. If you want only perfect solutions I guess you never got any consoles or gaming PC below 3000 dollar?
JustP_Gaming
Banned
The reson VR is stalling because the most talented devs are still deep into traditional no VR games. Once that changed and the top level devs start dipping thier toes into the VR water nothing will change. (IMHO)
Because it's a gimmick. It's an overhyped product that does nothing that pushed the medium forward in any major way and gets boring after a few days. If you can't see that then enjoy. I swear people never want to admit they wasted their money or bet on the wrong tech horse.
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I think really it's stalling because it's not really seen as a mainstream way to play your games.
I guess most people playing VR will play it only occasionally and for shorter periods of time.
That's my personal experience anyway. VR is maybe 10% of my total gaming time.
With PS4 you've got the additional price. Then the additional, and quite annoying, hardware.
Then probably most players will realise that, holy fuck, you can't just jump right in and play Skrim VR without feeling a bit "off" after about 10 minutes.
I can imagine homes across the country on Xmas. Little Jimmy gets his new PSVR all set up and dives into WipEout HD. Then spews his guts all over the living room floor and spends the rest of the day in bed.
I mean, Sony have sold 3 million headsets, which is good. It's never going to match their main console sales and so investment in games for the system is going to reflect that.
It's sold as more of a "novelty" too. You play in VR for the first few days thinking "wow, this is really cool" and it totally IS really awesome but then it wears off and it's just more of a hassle than just sitting on the sofa and playing a regular game with a regular controller.
So you're selling a product that is expensive, inconvenient and uncomfortable to use and is probably going to make the user puke everywhere if they play for too long. Yeah, I wonder why it's stalling.
I guess most people playing VR will play it only occasionally and for shorter periods of time.
That's my personal experience anyway. VR is maybe 10% of my total gaming time.
With PS4 you've got the additional price. Then the additional, and quite annoying, hardware.
Then probably most players will realise that, holy fuck, you can't just jump right in and play Skrim VR without feeling a bit "off" after about 10 minutes.
I can imagine homes across the country on Xmas. Little Jimmy gets his new PSVR all set up and dives into WipEout HD. Then spews his guts all over the living room floor and spends the rest of the day in bed.
I mean, Sony have sold 3 million headsets, which is good. It's never going to match their main console sales and so investment in games for the system is going to reflect that.
It's sold as more of a "novelty" too. You play in VR for the first few days thinking "wow, this is really cool" and it totally IS really awesome but then it wears off and it's just more of a hassle than just sitting on the sofa and playing a regular game with a regular controller.
So you're selling a product that is expensive, inconvenient and uncomfortable to use and is probably going to make the user puke everywhere if they play for too long. Yeah, I wonder why it's stalling.
Fuz
Banned
Cherry picking. Yes, racing and flying is great in VR.
All the rest? It's bad.
shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
Gamers by and large don’t want the physical sensory experience of being their game avatar (except maybe when Shepard is banging an alien woman). They may think they do, but they don’t.
What they really want is the fantasy of being their avatar, while actually sitting on their ass with as little physical exertion as possible.
The ones who actually want to experience what a typical video game avatar does are not playing fucking video games. They’re out training for Ironman, doing sports, martial arts, etc.
What they really want is the fantasy of being their avatar, while actually sitting on their ass with as little physical exertion as possible.
The ones who actually want to experience what a typical video game avatar does are not playing fucking video games. They’re out training for Ironman, doing sports, martial arts, etc.
Fuz
Banned
YET.
It will when we have the technology (but we are far from it, still).
DarthBuzzer
Member
Right, so I ask you to give a reason and you say "Because it's a gimmick" yet again.
Comical response. Overhyped in what way? The only overhyped part was the sales which is not related to the experience. If you don't think VR pushes the medium forward in any major way, you have never used VR. It objectively does. Unfortunately we don't exactly write things in stone, but if we did, you'd see this written in stone because it's a fact no matter how much your silly argument denies it.
What a joke. Couldn't even answer a simple question the second time through.
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DarthBuzzer
Member
You're overplaying motion sickness. Most people do not suffer these symptoms after building resistance.I think really it's stalling because it's not really seen as a mainstream way to play your games.
I guess most people playing VR will play it only occasionally and for shorter periods of time.
That's my personal experience anyway. VR is maybe 10% of my total gaming time.
With PS4 you've got the additional price. Then the additional, and quite annoying, hardware.
Then probably most players will realise that, holy fuck, you can't just jump right in and play Skrim VR without feeling a bit "off" after about 10 minutes.
I can imagine homes across the country on Xmas. Little Jimmy gets his new PSVR all set up and dives into WipEout HD. Then spews his guts all over the living room floor and spends the rest of the day in bed.
I mean, Sony have sold 3 million headsets, which is good. It's never going to match their main console sales and so investment in games for the system is going to reflect that.
It's sold as more of a "novelty" too. You play in VR for the first few days thinking "wow, this is really cool" and it totally IS really awesome but then it wears off and it's just more of a hassle than just sitting on the sofa and playing a regular game with a regular controller.
So you're selling a product that is expensive, inconvenient and uncomfortable to use and is probably going to make the user puke everywhere if they play for too long. Yeah, I wonder why it's stalling.
It's an issue, but we need to stop acting like there is a high likelihood of someone throwing up after playing Wipeout. It's possible, but it's not the most likely scenario
There are still games that can't get you sick through movement like Beat Saber, Tetris Effect, Moss, Rec Room. As the library expands more and more, this sector will continue to grow. There will be a point where someone who gets sick very easily will see VR as a worthwhile purchase because they will still have a large library of games that can't get them sick.
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DarthBuzzer
Member
Given most people enjoy VR, this is hardly an issue. You can't think of VR as a sole avatar sensory experience machine, because it's not that and that alone. It encompasses all forms of gaming, which means that if I just want to play a more traditional style game in 3rd person but built from the ground up in VR, like Astro Bot and Moss, then I can do so. I don't have to exert myself playing those.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
They dead bro, that's why, you just reinforced his point, gj.
It doesn't matter if I overplay motion sickness or underplay it. It's a thing.
If the shiny new 300 dollar gadget is going to have people driving the porcelain bus after 15 minutes then word of mouth alone is going to impact sales.
Yeah, yeah, I get it, most won't spew but many will and many more will feel a bit rough after the experience.
Then they will be like "I can only play VR for 30 mins at a time".
So it becomes a secondary or novelty experience. A gimmick, basically.
Something you bring out once in a while when you feel that buyers remorse or when you want to show off to friends/family.
Yes. Tetris Effect is magnificent but it's still Tetris... in 2018.
Thumper? I love it. Rez Infinite? Wonderful.
Astro Bot? It's so amazing.
At the end of the day these are not content heavy games and I imagine most people play them periodically and for short play sessions. That's what I do anyway.
And that's why VR is stalling. It doesn't have mass appeal. Most people's first impression will be "WOW... amazing... but... oh now I feel a bit rough... like I might puke". Even then it's not going to ever be your main gaming platform or method if you are looking for longer and more frequent sessions.
The statement "VR is stalling for no reason" is false. There are plenty of reasons why VR is stalling.
I'm not saying VR isn't good. It is good. Sometimes.
It's just not about to go mainstream any time soon.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Source stats for that constant use of "most" getting sick over it?
Also, there are people who don't have time to game more than 30 mins to an hour in general, do they give gaming bad word of mouth?
I think most of it is just that it's hard to sample the experience. If more people sampled it then more would would talk about getting sick but even more would rave about it.
When shit is less expensive and you can go to your average local store and check it out before buying it, rather than having to set a trip to whatever venue, it'll start growing faster.
It's basically inevitable, as it was inevitable that it would take a while to happen (I mean, Oculus might be the best selling VR atm and that was a niche crowd funded deal at one point).
Also I think PSVR can hurt impressions too, with the less than ideal controllers. When the most praised game uses standard gamepads that says a lot. Even a simple lightgun game is a whole new experience when you feel like you're actually aiming guns in 3D space as you would irl without any drifting or inconsistent tracking ruining it for you.
Also, there are people who don't have time to game more than 30 mins to an hour in general, do they give gaming bad word of mouth?
I think most of it is just that it's hard to sample the experience. If more people sampled it then more would would talk about getting sick but even more would rave about it.
When shit is less expensive and you can go to your average local store and check it out before buying it, rather than having to set a trip to whatever venue, it'll start growing faster.
It's basically inevitable, as it was inevitable that it would take a while to happen (I mean, Oculus might be the best selling VR atm and that was a niche crowd funded deal at one point).
Also I think PSVR can hurt impressions too, with the less than ideal controllers. When the most praised game uses standard gamepads that says a lot. Even a simple lightgun game is a whole new experience when you feel like you're actually aiming guns in 3D space as you would irl without any drifting or inconsistent tracking ruining it for you.
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shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
LOL “most people enjoy VR.” How is that a given? Citation needed. I’d be surprised if even 3% of gamers use VR on a regular basis. I’d also be surprised if over 50%. of the PSVR units sold have been used in the past month.
And “most people” enjoyed Wii/Kinect motion controls too. Until the novelty factor wore off. And the successors to both of those were dismal failures.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
He obviously means most of those who have tried the higher end VR (so, not google cardboard VR or something), though I don't know where his stats come from either.
There was no real successor to Wii either. Also motion controls are in pretty much every controller and gadget (phones etc) these days sans Xbox, they're expected as minimum and are here to stay.
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Sorry. Anecdotal.
At least let's not pretend it isn't one of the major obstacles that VR has to overcome.
And one of the main reasons why VR is stalling.
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DarthBuzzer
Member
Most in the context of people that have used high-end VR. I obviously won't count people who have never tried it or those that have only tried mobile or standalone VR. And really, it's not hard to find endless threads of impressions. Check out ResetEra. There were about 5 PSVR related threads in the last couple of weeks full of skeptics that bought their bundle for black friday. I can probably count the number of negative or even 'meh' impressions on one hand. There were hundreds and hundreds of positive impressions from again, a lot of skeptics. That's just one forum, so look elsewhere for more. Look at games themselves, like Beat Saber and Astro Bot and see how they are overwhelmingly praised by skeptics.
It's easy to see that most people enjoy VR. That doesn't mean that VR is ready to blow up or that most people will use it for a long time, it just means enjoyment can be found. The hardware is likely the biggest limiting factor right now for VR retention, and will be sorted out over the upcoming headset generations.
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DarthBuzzer
Member
Yes, it is a thing. I don't see the need to overplay it because that just turns people off. It's not your job to sell people on it and you can say whatever you like, but it's a disservice to overplay things that aren't as bad they are, especially when you like VR and no doubt want it to succeed. I'm perfectly comfortable with listing the flaws of VR as I have done so in this thread, mentioning many hardware issues, but that's because they were properly defined. I said 'low resolution' but didn't say 'so low it's a blurry mess' for most people, for example.
About sickness, there is a working cure that fixes motion sickness in 99% of cases and no doubt this will catch on sometime in the 2020s, but until then, people who get sick can just stick to the non-sickening parts of VR like Beat Saber, Moss, social VR spaces, IMAX theaters and such. These areas are in need of an overall increase in availability, meaning that we need a full console's worth of games and experiences that do not get you sick on top of those that can get you sick. It will just take time.
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shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
Uhh Wii U was the successor to Wii as much as it pains people to admit it.
And the days of Wii/Kinect style pantomime motion controls are dead and buried. It was a fad. A fad that was far more successful than VR gaming will ever be for two reasons: it was relatively cheap, and it was highly entertaining to share with other people.
Gaming with a headset strapped over your face is not something that people will want to do on a regular basis once the novelty factor wears off, no matter how much the tech improves. Mark my words.
olimariOA
Banned
It's stalling because it's an expensive peripheral with few games.
I just got PSVR and love it, but let's not kid ourselves about what it is.
More games need to simply support a 3D display mode, even if it doesn't use PSVR in a gameplay capacity.
I'd love to play an RPG in 3D and see all of the spells and effects swirl around me.
You know what it's going to take? PS5 pack-in.
Also, Astro Bot is better than Mario Odyssey.
I just got PSVR and love it, but let's not kid ourselves about what it is.
More games need to simply support a 3D display mode, even if it doesn't use PSVR in a gameplay capacity.
I'd love to play an RPG in 3D and see all of the spells and effects swirl around me.
You know what it's going to take? PS5 pack-in.
Also, Astro Bot is better than Mario Odyssey.
DarthBuzzer
Member
VR prices are coming down to the same price points that those devices were known for. PSVR was $200 this Black Friday, and while it was a sale, that will be permanent eventually, probably by the end of 2019.
Also, have you seen how much of a hit VR is at parties? It brings in crowds like nothing else. Beat Saber in particular is a very fun experience for families, friends, and large groups. I've seen too many examples to count of Beat Saber parties.
You're also speaking as if headsets will always be this isolating thing that stops you connecting with the outside world. No, that's not where it's going. Mixed Reality is an important part of VR's future and will be intergrated into all VR headsets as time goes on. Oculus Quest already has this working as an experimental feature in the current kits that Oculus uses.
These headsets will get smaller and smaller until they are just goggles or glasses that do VR/AR/MR and everything in between with any blending between them. Isolation is not going to be a long-term issue at all.
When I slip on a VR headset in 5 years or so, I expect to be communicating like normal with my family, being able to see them as I normally would, in addition to seeing realistic avatars of people who are half way across the world, all simultaneously without a toggle between the two, they are just seamlessly integrated in one natural view. If that isn't the most important communication device in history, then I don't know what else to say.
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Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
WiiU was nothing like Wii, saying it failed because motion controls were a fad and people got over it when WiiU didn't focus on motion controls at all and simply had backwards compatibility with the preexisting wiimotes, sold separately, rather than try to improve on what worked is plainly and simply dumb. You're twisting all kinds of dumb points to reinforce your misguided biases rather than look at the facts and shape an informed opinion of what happened before, what's happening now, and what may happen in the future. Confirmation bias: the person basically. I mean, you say WIiU was the successor to the motion controls fad and failed because of it but then say actual motion controls like everything under the sun except Xbox these days is totally different to that fad which was a fad and is dead and, out of nowhere, so is VR, lol? I'm done with you. Wii was not a fad, it lasted one gen like any successful console. PS2 wasn't a fad because PS3 didn't do nearly as good, lol. I'm done xD
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Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Member
I still think one of the killer apps will be 3d video photogrammetry adult entertainment. It could be prerecorded or live, and you could walk around. That needs high rez and wireless headsets for maximum impact.
DarthBuzzer
Member
It's much less antisocial because you're not gaming with disconnected voices but with tracked avatars that use spatialized audio and have body + social presence. Making assumptions when you have zero VR experience even from an outsider's perspective doesn't exactly work out well.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
I’m not counting being in game as social, I’m talking actual world social
LittleBusters
Banned
Why so much defense of current day VR? I think the fact it can't sell more than a few million units per quarter says it all.
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Member
Next year multiple wireless headsets will likely release with better screens and lower price. In a few years we will also have high resolution. Let's see if sales still remain low after it is easy plug and play, high rez, and wireless.
DarthBuzzer
Member
Well it can be, but that's game dependent. If I'm playing Carly and the Repairman, Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes or Mass Exodus, then those are socially engaging experiences. Party games like Beat Saber can also be really great social activities.
It all depends on how you as a gamer use it.
DarthBuzzer
Member
Aside from people ignoring the shortcomings, most people in this context are defending outrageous claims like "It's a gimmick because I say so" or "It's doesn't change much" or "There are no good games"
And sales have nothing to do with reasons to defend something within the context of what it offers.
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LordRaptor
Member
fuck all y'all, this shit looks amazing
off duty ninja
Member
This is exactly what happened with me. I bought the PSVR on a good friends recommendation (thinking I was going to love it already of course) but I had extreme simulation sickness issues in most games. Some games like Skyrim were ok at times but even then I could only play for so long.
Due to this I won't spend money on any games for fear of the dreaded nausea that I would rather avoid. Since most games don't even have demos there is really no way to know if a game is going to be a nausea fest or not.
At this point my PSVR isn't even connected to the tv becasue all the wires make it cumbersome to move the PS4 between rooms when needed and I don't have any desire to play it. I am interested in Borderlands VR but I would love a fucking demo to try it out first but that seems too much to ask for most VR games these days.
LittleBusters
Banned
So much furious defense of a platform that is just not popular.
DarthBuzzer
Member
There are some highly rated games that have demos like Wipeout, Astro Bot, and RE7. But you can buy risk-free if you just stick to games that don't artifically move you. Moss, Beat Saber, and Tetris Effect are games that are really great but comfortable.
This feels like you're trying to start an argument by saying basically the same thing twice that doesn't really make much sense to begin with, mainly the part about popularity. You're all over the place in this thread. One minute you say you believe in VR's future as things become more refined, the next you like a comment that bashes VR for made up reasons.
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Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Member
Games like the original doom used to give me motion sickness, I hear many other people got sick from early FPSs on PC too. Still it seems most adapted and now FPSs are one of the biggest genres and basically none complain of motion sickness anymore. I think something similar may happen with VR
xellos2099alpha
Member
An ideal VR unit would be something that use inside out tracking like the WMR but also light and mobile as oculus go. I really like WMR since it doesn;t need those tower around the room. Oculus go is a good direction but it is weak and it is mostly a media device. Something like WMR with wireless would be ideal but it is going to be heavy and your head look like predator.
LucidFeuer
Banned
No it's not a computing device, a screen is not a computing device, a mic or a mouse isn't either.
Yes, obviously PS2-era graphic was an hyperbole and there are some high-quality content like Robo Recall or Lone Echo but there's a weird gap between those AAA and the vast majority of sub-par indie VR games.
LucidFeuer
Banned
Absolutely agree. I understand that PSVR being probably a post-PS4 launch confirmation, they had to accompany it with the break-out box, but this is obviously a no-go for the future, as the external camera mess probably is too.
DarthBuzzer
Member
Of course it's a computing device. Look up the definition. PSVR doesn't really fit the bill, but with a PC VR headset you can use it for computing. It's just not it's own platform unless it's standalone,.
shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
I’m not so sure. I’ve never had problems with rollercoasters, planes, boats, FPS games, etc. But games like Battlezone and Drive Club VR made me sick as hell after 5-10 minutes.
And it’s a terrible feeling. It took like an hour to go away in both instances. First time it happened I thought.l I had a stomach flu coming on or something, because I’d never experienced motion sickness before.
ZywyPL
Banned
I heard that last year. And a year before that. And 3 years ago. And so on. Please define "technology"? The technology is already there, the googles are there from the very begining, making them lighter or wireless won't change the fact it will still seriously lack content. PS Vita was an amazing piece of hardware, nothing lacking on the tech side whatsoever, it's the lack of games that single-handedly killed it, and the same is happening right now with VR. With current pace, before the "technology" (whatever you mean by that) arrives, most people wont' even remember what VR was.
DarthBuzzer
Member
There is no possibility of it dying out before we get true killer apps, because all the investment is there to get to a killer app. Companies are not investing in VR for the next 2 years, but for the next 10.
The tech is moving very fast, so it won't be that long before many issues are fixed and killer apps automatically pop up. Astro Bot is very much a killer app in spirit anyway, it's just that there isn't enough marketing power behind it. Valve happen to be making 3 VR games which could very well be those killer apps too.
As I said, killer apps happen automatically as the hardware improves. When the resolution is high enough to recreate 1080p monitors in VR, then simulating screens becomes a killer app. Once you have photorealistic avatar tracking, that is another kill app. Once we have 6DoF 360 videos in a high resolution headset, that is another killer app.
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Elenchus
Banned
Mass market is right. Plus many are rightfully worried about getting sick. If I recall there were buckets nearby the PSVR demo units when it was first made available to the public. Doesn’t exactly inspire confidence.
DarthBuzzer
Member
Mass market is wrong. It's not a gimmick by definition. People don't get sick from their own movement, so VR itself does not cause sickness, it's VR software.
Airola
Member
But VR is the software. Virtual Reality by definition is software.